Stability Control, are you ready for it?
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Sorry about the bad outcome, but as you note, could have been lots worse.
Randy
I also had a steering sensor go out on the Corvette and it shut off the ESC, produced a code which got me a new sensor under warranty since I took the car to a Corvette specialist that knew what it was right away.
Randy
you started out by asking a question, and then answering it. i don't know if toyota's implementation is problematic or "bad"...but something about that report is worthy of reflection.
you only know how the corvette implementation failes in one scenario. in all the other scenarios, are you safe?
On the other hand, there is the driver response to any new technology that may require a different reaction than what was preferred prior to the technology. Just like ABS, most are going to have to learn about ESC. The problem with ESC is that quick reactions learned in racing may be the worst approach to this new technology. The model used in development is one of mostly non-response, so over correcting will confuse the system. The new mantra for ESC cars will be to steer where you want to go and hold it, not something that will be natural to a performance driver (a very small %).
About "... before we go embracing technology we need to understand the consequences of failed sensors and how the driver's authority may be usurped in some contexts." You are very correct, that is what the engineer is supposed to do in setting up the system for the real world. Most consumers don't really care or want to even think about such things. They just want the system to work, which as noted above, it does, the vast majority of the time.
Randy
Abbott
2000 Mercedes C280
2001 Merces C320
2002 Audi allroad
I will NEVER ever own a car without it. There are numerous studies out there that show fatalities have lowered in cars with this feature. To me it's a no brainer. It's also getting much cheaper as in option in less expensive cars. You can even get it now as an option on a Corolla. Five years from now it will be as common as ABS. Ten years from now, it will be in every car whether you want it or not. IT WORKS!! Trust me.
In Europe when the MB A Class rolled during a press introduction they fell back on the message that since the production model would have ESC it wasn't a problem. That caused VW to go 100% ESC in Europe and that dragged along the rest of the middle market. In the US it stayed in the high end cars until the SUV issues and then migrated there next. Its best use might be SUVs but the studies in the EU, where they don't have many SUVs, show the most impact on safety is in small, short wheel base cars, usually driven by younger, new drivers.
FWIW, Randy
jabbott
When I bought my 2005, I didn't even bother trying to find one with ESC, just got the side airbags.
I recently saw some stats from Ward's showing that only 7% of 2005 Camrys were actually produced with ESC; I would bet virtually all of these were V6 models.
Takes ESC into account but combines NHTSA and IIHS ratings with other info to get a more real world factor.
FWIW, Randy
"Electronic stability control (ESC) takes electronic traction control a step further. This system helps keep the vehicle on its intended path during a turn, to avoid sliding or skidding. It uses a computer linked to a series of sensors--detecting wheel speed, steering angle, sideways motion and yaw (spin). If the car starts to drift, the stability-control system momentarily brakes one or more wheels and, depending on the system, reduces engine power to keep the car back on course.
ESC is especially helpful in providing an extra measure of control in slippery conditions and accident-avoidance situations. With tall, top-heavy vehicles like sport-utilities and pickups, it can also help keep a vehicle from getting into a situation where it could roll over.
Volvo has taken stability control a step further with Roll Stability Control (RSC) in the XC90. It uses gyroscopic sensors to determine roll angle and roll speed to determine if roll over is eminent. If so, it triggers the standard stability control system and instantly reduces power and brakes the necessary wheels to bring the vehicle back under control. This system is also found on the Ford Explorer and Expedition SUVs, among others.
Electronic stability control started on luxury cars and has been catching on for the past few years. To confuse matters, automakers each tend to have a proprietary name for their stability control systems (see the accompanying table). To help consumers identify the system in a vehicle's features list, the Society of Automotive Engineers has asked that all manufacturers use electronic stability control or ESC, as common terminology when referring to their stability-control systems. Consumer Reports supports this announcement, and feels it will help consumers know what they are buying. If in doubt whether a car has it, find out before you buy.
DECIPHERING STABILITY CONTROL
Stability control helps keep a vehicle from skidding sideways. Automakers give their systems a confusing array of names, including the ones listed below:
MAKE: STABILITY-CONTROL SYSTEM NAME:
Acura: Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)
Audi: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
BMW: Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)
Buick: StabiliTrak
Cadillac: StabiliTrak
Chevrolet: Active Handling (cars);
StabiliTrak (SUVs)
Chrysler: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Dodge: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Ford: AdvanceTrac
GMC: StabiliTrak
Honda: Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)
Hummer: StabiliTrak
Hyundai: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Infiniti: Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)
Jaguar: Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)
Jeep: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Kia: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Land Rover: Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)
Lexus: Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)
Lincoln: AdvanceTrac
Mazda: Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)
Mercedes-Benz: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Mercury: AdvanceTrac
Mini Cooper: Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)
Mitsubishi: Mitsubishi Active Skid & Traction
Control System (M-ASTC)
Nissan: Vehicle Dynamic Control (VDC)
Pontiac: StabiliTrak
Porsche: Porsche Stability Management (PSM)
Saab: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Saturn: StabiliTrak
Scion: Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)
Subaru: Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC)
Toyota: Vehicle Stability Control (VSC)
Volkswagen: Electronic Stability Program (ESP)
Volvo: Dynamic Stability Traction Control (DSTC)
-Consumer Reports' auto experts highly recommend stability control where it's offered. But it does have its limits: You can't just speed into a curve and expect the system to bail you out. Taking any corner too fast could compromise the system's ability to keep the vehicle on course."
-I definitely want it in my next car, and strongly believe it should be at least available on all vehicles.
Randy
“start the car with the parking brake on .then foot brake twice .(keep the foot brake down) .then parking brake twice (keep it down )and repeat till skid light is on the dash ..it will reset when you restart the car”
Apparently, this disables everything but the ABS. Source: VWVortex Forums via Digg
Mentions ESC as basic starting point for active safety systems.
But at least a good percentage are looking to the future. Now once they get it they just have to learn a little something about how to drive with it.
Interesting in light of the relation to the old IDLSWDY, makes both points that were common, SUVs may not be more safe due to rollover but they are more safe due to size and it seems to balance. The issue then gets to be that with ESC you reduce the rollover risk significantly.
Rocky
Interesting read.
i guess my real question is, what IS the most common cause of a rollover (other than the driver)?
Most rollovers are single-vehicle events. That means the driver lost control for one reason or another, with distraction and driving too fast for conditions being the likely culprits, IMO.
But road design is a factor. It's too bad so many of our interstates were built with sharply V-shaped medians. They should have been built flatter with a barrier down the middle if necessary. A lot of interstate rollovers happen when the vehicle goes into the median.
my guess is once a driver realizes they are off line, they will slam the brakes. 'abs' may help. how does 'esc' know where you need to go?
the driver has to trust the brakes and the steering.
some will be able to do that, others will not.
i think if you are cornering super fast like those really cool test track drivers in the articles touting the benefits of stability control, then when the vehicle starts to plow or yaw excessively, it will save you.
the best way to stay out of those conditions is to know yourself and skills, the condition and capability of your vehicle, and have knowlege of road conditions, then drive well within the constraints of each.
unfortunately, a lot of new drivers in vehicles inappropriate for poor skillsets are driven outside of these constraints. it may be a lifesaver technology, but it would be wrong to rely on it (unless you're a test track driver... but then... you don't need it).
I don't think people realize how hard it is to get a normal car to rollover (without it being t-boned or something). You really have to work at it, or do soemthing truly stupid. It is easier to spin out, but even doing that takes some effort (although not if you are on glare ice)!
I think my point is that ESC is useful for keeping you losing control in some cases, although even if it kicks in that doesn't mean you were going to completely lose control of your car and wipe out.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But go off the road (for whatever reason), over an embankment, and it won't be hard to roll a car.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It was the first snowfall in my new car and the AWD and traction control had made me over confident. (It pulled very well from a stop even under slippery conditions)
I realized late (entering the turn) that I was carrying a little too much speed. I felt the car approaching the edge of control and already knew what was going to happen: the nose-heavy front wheels would continue to bite, but the light back end was going to break loose and I was going to fishtail my very expensive rim and tire into a tall, concrete curb.
Then a little yellow light flashed on the dashboard and everything was okay. ESC had triggered the ABS on the driver-side rear wheel and managed to pivot the car back on track. The laws of physics weren't violated (I was only slightly faster than what would've not required ESC), but the car did something that no driver could have in order to keep me on course.
That sort of handling magic is what will help keep SUVs on course and upright. The combination of throttle-by-wire cutoff and independent ABS channel operation will keep all but the most determined drivers rolling forward (no rollovers) instead of skidding sideways (rollovers).
I've talked to two Corvette drivers that now feel that they overcorrected in a skid with ESC engaged and were basically trying to overpower the system. In both cases the result was a concrete wall. If you are in a skid it seems you have to point the car where you want it to go, knowing that the hands will follow the eyes, and let the system get it there. Look to the opening, not the tree or wall. Or as noted, trust the system, which will be a hard learning experience for many.
drivers maybe ill prepared to work with the automation since they will have little experience with it and may be caught unprepared when it activates.
Bosch has its own gyro while CT uses a unit produced in the US. TRW has a unit that I think comes from a joint venture of EU/Asia companies. The gyro, from what ever source, measures yaw and in some cases there is a roll gyro as well. This input to a computer goes into software developed by each auto company along with the steering and wheelspeed inputs and the system then decides what happens. Mostly that was braking but there are new systems that drive individual wheels on AWD cars. So, each car company has its own system and even different systems by model, for example Corvette vs. Cadillac. In the case of Corvette, the one I know best, the system has allowed more yaw before engaging the system from its 1998 introduction up to current production. I can get my '02 Vette to use a slip angle of about a foot of rear end slide before the system intervenes if I am very smooth with the steering and throttle, that wasn't possible with the '00 and prior year models.
Isn't that the same way you correct a skid without ESC?
I think most people would add something about steering into the skid, or counter steering and in this case there is no need to mention that as it might be counterproductive. For ESC what really causes problems is the oversteering, back and forth in a tail slapper skid, that confuses the system (where does this yahoo want to go?).
Here is a current article I found that is one of the best at mentioning the need to 'drive differently' when using ESC.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/autos/story/3340816p-3866224c.html