We are aware of the login problems affecting the forums, and appreciate your patience as we work on a fix.
Did you recently purchase a new Tesla, Rivian or Lucid vehicle directly from the manufacturer and willing to share how your experience compared to previous vehicle purchases made through a traditional dealer? A reporter would like to speak with you; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 2/19 for details.
Stability Control, are you ready for it?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I am looking at a Nissan Xterra or similar smaller truck based SUV or crew cab pickup. Don't beat me up for buying a truck, because I am part of the small minority that actually needs a true 4wd for my work looking at big tracts of land. As such, I am not buying a sports car so I am not worried about stability control intruding on the fun of driving. Based on my budget, I may have to choose between stability control and side curtain airbags.
My gut tells me if I cannot have both, I will get more safety benefit from stability control in a tall truck or SUV. I'd rather avoid rolling in the first place. If I am already rolling, I am not sure how much additional benefit I will get from curtain airbags. Tall body on frame vehicles seem to do pretty well in side impacts already, limiting the benefit of side airbags. I was just curious if anyone else thought similarly or differently.
In any case, this was more of a theoretical question. Which gives you more safety bang for the buck? I still think that if I had to choose either or, I would rather have the stability control and try to avoid crashing and rolling in the first place.
From a logical point of view though, I think 210delray is right.
And yes I hate options packages. My friend's getting a WRX shipped from Japan because he chose a weird combination. They've been really nice and helpful about it, and I wish it were as easy with any manufacturer.
We want that feature since many of our German relatives have vehicles with ESC and we know that ESC will become standard over the next few years. I've read many of these posts and I'm now more than ever convinced that we need this feature.
Neale Jesse and Geoffrey Bauer (Improve Estimation of Vehicle Longitudinal Velocity) Determining whether a vehicle has a lateral acceleration greater than a predetermined value, and then setting the estimate of longitudinal velocity based on the velocity of the wheel.
http://www.kirotv.com/automotive/4430592/detail.html
http://www.ktvu.com/automotive/4430592/detail.html
BTW, has anyone seen the Ford ad for ESC that shows the sensor animation and what did you think?
Randy
Then again, maybe people just aren't ready for ESC ... to bad!
This technical discussion has one of the best reviews of the approach used
to correct spin out using a gyro. Some of the predictions about one
technology replacing current sensors is possibly an attempt to sell something
that doesn't yet exist, but overall very good info for those interested in a
better understanding of what is comming. From 11% market penetration now
they are saying it will be on 30% of vehicles in a couple years. Of course in
the EU it is already approaching availability in 50% of vehicles, they value
safety.
Randy
Some of the advancements in electronic chassis controls are pretty amazing and continuing at a fast pace these days. The same computer that controls ESC could also connect things like steering as well to make it a broader system.
Many of the same people that wouldn't know if their drive wheels are in the front, back or middle. But at least they make up for it by having poor driving skills.
And guess which group Lexus, and the other manufacturers with overly intrusive ESC systems, are designing for? Hint: not guys like Boxster that want to take their car out to the track.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As to sensor inputs being tied to the steering as well as the braking, that is already the case in most systems. There is a steering angle sensor, the one on my Corvette died about 30k miles, that compares input with the yaw sensor to judge where the driver is trying to go when it decides what braking input will get it back on course. Interesting thing, it presumes that the driver is aiming at the best solution to the problem, the exit, rather than aiming at the tree that is what they are currently focused on, not realizing that the eyes are causing the hands to follow.
I hesitate to suggest that this is all a good idea but none the less, it is upon us.
I wouldn't put myself in the top 1/2%, but maybe the top 3-4% (modest, ain't I?), and as time passes, I notice that my attention span is a lot shorter than it used to be..
I would say that stability control is a net positive, even for me, 98% of the time... If I tracked my car, I might feel differently...
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
On Friday, OTOH, it was much more race car crowd and I was running in the low intermediate group of 4 groups and getting passed every so often. Also they did a time trial and on the warm up lap I got passed by two much faster cars and then by two Spec. Miatas, not without some attempt to prevent I will admit. However, as one went by on the outside of a off camber turn and I tried to hold the line at speed, the ESC just gave me a nudge which probably saved me and the Miata from a bad tangle. Big heavy cars slide downhill very quickly. I'll just thank the system and say I did reel in one of the Miata's later in the session for a clean pass on the straight and stayed ahead in the twisties long enough to get another straight to put some distance between us. I'm still learning, so not going to feel too bad about a car on race slicks, with a club race driver, passing me even if it had about 1/2 the power to weight performance of my street tired, stock suspension Vette.
As to the Honda question, who's to know. I've seen the Honda Sedan on a list
of current vehicles with ESC but when on the Honda site, I didn't see it as an option
at least on the model I looked at. Good Luck.
On the article, Continental says they introduced ESC in 1998, 'to the mass market' which sort of ignores that MB introduced it in about 1994 and GM had it on
Caddy in 1997 and Corvette in 1998. Corvette seems pretty mass market to me.
http://www.todaystrucking.com/displayarticle.cfm?ID=4109
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=106033
If you aren't ready for it, seems many are working on getting it to us anyway.
Seems if they have a test to measure results against that is repeatable then
the Fed's are willing to consider mandating it at some point. But as noted
since GM has said they will have it in everything by 2010 it may be moot
since everyone else is likely to follow. Now the quesion will be, how many
models like Corvette will have an off switch? Then again, is that even a good idea?
Randy
Seems ESC is having an impact that is measurable ...
Keeping an otherwise dead thread alive by several months' worth of posting regurgitated corporate press releases (not actual news items) just has me wondering, that's all.
Can you explain why if studies show 60+% decline in single vehicle fatalities in SUVs there is so little interest in the topic? I'd be interested in an opinion.
Randy
I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd even consider buying an SUV, so I'm probably the wrong person to offer that opinion.
I think that there is a lot of noise, statistically speaking, in that 60% decline. If those sorts of numbers hold up as more and more models hit the road, then you'll see a rush to ESC and a general perception that not having it would be as crazy as not having seat belts.
And rightly or wrongly, drivers probably assume the single-vehicle accident is something that happens to "other drivers." For drivers who know the limits of their vehicles and adjust their speed according to conditions, this probably isn't an unreasonable assumption to make.
Randy
This really isn't a slap at all drivers. It's just that any of us who are enthusiasts will occasionally get a little over the edge with our driving habits. As far as I'm concerned, I hope not to have to use the ESC in my car, but if I get too enthusiastic in my driving, I hope it's there to keep me from flying off the edge of the pavement! As for the SUV drivers, yes, they need it. It's obvious they are top heavy, compared to a Vette or Z-car, and need the help in more cases than your average sedan. But even in a sedan, or sports car, it can save your neck.
I believe it will be standard in most vehicle within the next few years. It just makes sense. It compensates much faster than a human can.
(The US NHTSA is also investigating ways to establish new performance standards that will encourage if not compel manufacturers to increase the number of vehicles equipped with electronic stability control systems.
From:
http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/industry_news/28-06-05
Last night about 10PM I was returning to my home in south Florida driving on Interstate 75 S. The interstate was busy, driving conditions were poor due to torrential rains from Hurricane Dennis. I was traveling about 60 mph (70 mph speed limit), probably too fast for the conditions. But...
Suddenly and without warning I was upon a very slow moving truck and trailer. I swerved left to avoid the collision, and immediately the ESC responded, perhaps preventing a rollover. After some violent maneuvering, I ended up in the grass of the median pointing in the desired direction, completely upright. I did not skid, spin or rollover. I attribute this to the assistance of the ESC.
Perhaps my driving skills might be questioned, but no matter I would never buy another vehicle without ESC. The auto was a Lexus RX 330 (2005).
That's understandable. SUVs need all the help they can get. :-)
...and any additional safety equipment to an SUV is bound to improve it's fatality rate.
I think SUV's provide a sense of false security because of their size and the fact that many or most have 4WD; all of which has nothing to do with stable handling or rolling over. After enough law suits, the big three, and now most of the Japanese and European SUV makers, all provide ESC as standard equipment. It was a lot less than paying off law suits!
Next, add the side curtains and get your congressman to vote for a stronger roof/roll-over specifications for all manufacturers.
My friend passed a rollover accident yesterday morning on his way to work. The SUV was upside down and there was an arm hanging out of the window. I don't know if anybody got severely injured but there was nothing in the news so I guess that's a good sign.
The weather was sunny and in the 80's.
http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw119284_20050802.htm
For those the don't get the difference between ABS, traction control and stability control don't feel too bad. I just spent a weekend at Reno-Fernley Raceway with a group of 35 Corvettes and about a dozen other cars. The instructors, all race drivers, kept confusing traction control and stability control which did cause some confusion among the students. And all of these guys were sure they had it right. After a few of them took a few rides with system on, in competition mode (TC off) and fully off (no active handling) they were pretty impressed at how far it would let the cars go in the newer models. Not so true in older, pre '00, models. BTW, I drove almost the whole weekend with the system fully off and I did take several corners faster than what the system will allow. I kept it on when we were doing side by side and passing drills, slight slips when fender to fender don't go well with street cars. Fun weekend and a few new converts to tracking I'm sure as about 2/3's of the crowd were new to the track.
Since they make ABS with 4 separate channels it is easy enough to control each wheel seperately and it is this feature that makes ESC work. The heart of the ESC system is a gyro that can measure the beginning of rotation, before it gets to the stage of a spin out. This info is sent to the brakes and only the necessary wheel will brake, keeping the car on course.
Interesting thing about ESC, just like ABS, is that old habits get in the way of it working properly. Key thing with ESC is to steer where you want to go, makes little difference if foot is on the gas or brake. Problem is that most people will steer where they are looking and in the event of an accident most people look where they don't want to go ( the tree, wall, other vehicle) and the hands follow, bad outcome. It is going to take awhile for people to get the hang of it.
Randy
I was driving up AL-59 between Loxley and Bay Minette, on my way back home from Gulf Shores on Sunday. This particlular stretch was practically an interstate--rural, very little of anything on the side of the road, 4 lanes, grass median, 65mph speed limit. I was thinking in interstate-mode (approach car, move to left lane, pass, return to right lane) and admittedly was not expecting anyone to slow down to turn off the road.
The car in front of me slowed down to turn right into a gas station that is hidden from the road by trees until you get close. I guess with the bright sunlight and the fact that the car was red, I didn't see the brake lights until I was just a second or so from ramming this car (going probably 10mph) at 65mph. I slammed on the brakes and swerved to the left. I missed the car but lost control trying to steer into the left lane, skidded sideways, and jumped a curb, taking out a mailbox and a small bush, before skidding to a stop in the gas station parking lot.
Luckily, nobody was hurt and the damage was very minor--a bent wheel, cracked front bumper, and a small dent in the left rear door.
I don't know whether or not ESC would have allowed me to stay on the road or not, but I can certainly see a benefit to having one more level of safety available to me to try to avoid an accident. My next car will definitely have ESC.