Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

ateixeira

VCM is a nice feature, no doubt. When the Ody came out, Edmunds did a poll, and it was found to be the biggest innovation on that model.

 

Just keep in mind that adding that, making the interior a little nicer, and perhaps packaging Nav and DVD together will also bump up the price of the Pilot.

 

Any how, I usually ignore MSRP, but right now that's all we have to go buy. The point of my exercise was to show that SUVs cost more than people think. You can't get squat for $35k with Nav and DVD, nothing worth looking at any how.

 

The whole market is forced to discount, Honda too. MDX sold for MSRP with wait lists early in its life, but now even that and the Pilot are heavily discounted.

 

To expect any vehicle in this class to demand MSRP is futile. But margins are usually similar, roughly 10% or so, so you get an idea. Add rebates for the domestics, usually.

 

Bottom line - Tribeca pricing is right in line with the mainstream vehicles, yet its interior matches the luxury ones. A little more for a little less.

 

Isn't that what Subaru usually does?

 

-juice

ateixeira

James: kudos to your team, the build quality of the Tribeca was jaw-dropping. Hard to believe it was pre-production.

 

I attend a LOT of Auto Shows, usually 2-3 per year, and I'm not sure I've ever seen a pre-production model that I found zero defects on, but that was the case with the Tribeca.

 

Fit and finish was excellent, and the seams matched up. Even a Corvette I saw had mold parts. A Lincoln has a loose A-pillar trim piece. They are rarely perfect.

 

Pat yourself on the back, please.

 

These awards are confirming my feelings about this car - Subaru will have a mild hit on its hands.

 

Anyone want to be against it selling at least 40k units in the first full year? Gentleman's bet? Maybe the first round of drinks at the 2006 Philly Show?

 

-juice

ateixeira

Mark LT made that list...yuck. Better than the Blackwood, but still just a clone.

 

Jeep Hurricane was #1, and indeed, deserved being called the best concept.

 

Edit: Ridgeline didn't make the list? I disagree there, the innovative bed alone should have put it on there. Perhaps they couldn't get past the tacked-on styling elements.

 

-juice

c_hunter

So much for any Tribeca fuel economy advantage over this competitor. Wonder what the design'll be and if they'll also use Acura's new SH-AWD? This could be a vehicle with equal AWD capability (correct me if I'm wrong about the performance of SH-AWD) and superior economy in a larger package. Presumably Pilot will receive a dose of style, too. So that would leave Subie with what advantage... only better handling? Hmm. Subaru'd better bring those other powerplants in to play soon, I think.

 

My understanding of SH-AWD is that it is more geared towards handling/performance -- by overdriving the outside rear wheel they can eliminate the understeer trait that the car would otherwise have. It's probably not a full-time multi-purpose system like you'd want in an SUV, but it's hard to say. Honda engineers are always coming up with something new. I doubt that SH-AWD would do much to improve the handling dynamics of a vehicle like the Pilot, since so much of its problems come from height and mass -- you're likely to roll the tires off the rim before the understeer becomes a problem!

 

CRaig

c_hunter

Welcome! I also echo Juice's comments -- the Tribeca I saw at the Richmond auto show was very well crafted. Thanks for all the hard work you guys have been doing.

 

Craig

05 OBXT

bigelm

for the worst booth?! Shame on them, even when introducing a new vehicle they should've smacked most of the car makes. Unbelieveable to find them in the same list as Kia and Suzuki - it's very disappointing.

 

James, welcome and we look forward to your posts as an 'insider' of SIA. My hat goes off to you guys for doing a superb job on a new vehicle. Yes, the exterior is contraversial but the interior is very impressive and undebateable. I would like to see a turbo model though.. <hint, hint>

~Hey, wait a minute... you're not replacing Patti are you? :-p

jon_in_ct

bigelm wrote:

Subaru came in 3rd for the worst booth?! Shame on them, even when introducing a new vehicle they should've smacked most of the car makes. Unbelieveable to find them in the same list as Kia and Suzuki - it's very disappointing.

Subaru's stand was probably faulted by the press for not having enough space for the press during its press conference (it was SRO) and for using its old backdrop from last year's show (or at least the same one used last year at the Chicago show).

cptplt

juice, craig, jamesn1, anyone!

what color are the rear turn signal lights??red or yellow. I have a pet peeve about red ones, if they are yellow I am getting a B9 sight unseen, if not I'll think about it!

kens

Great report and pics. I think we agree on a lot of things so your positive review of the B9X has piqued my interest even more. I'll have to try and check one out. Unfortunately, all of the local auto shows in the Bay Area are at the end of the year. I'll probably get a chance to see them at dealer before that.

 

Were you able to get any idea of what the peformance figures were from the floor staff?

 

BTW, is that Cosmoline on this photo: http://members.cox.net/harmony.hunter/b9web/images/10.html

 

SIA must love that stuff. It's everywhere on my LGT.

 

Ken

njswamplands

I have a pet peeve about red ones, if they are yellow I am getting a B9 sight unseen, if not I'll think about it!

 

wow what a fetish

rsholland

The lens are red, but we didn't turn the signals on. I too prefer amber.

 

Bob

jeffmc

Hey, I agree with cptplt on this. I told myself I wouldn't ever buy a vehicle with red turnsignal lights... I hope Subaru doesn't make me break this promise to myself. :P

 

For me it's a safety issue. Particularly if you can only see one taillight of a vehicle (say the center lamp or second taillight is blocked from view by another vehicle), it can be hard to tell if that's a brakelight or a turnsignal. With yellow, there's just no doubt and you don't have to think about it. I assumed safety-conscious Subaru paid attention to this since they've been using yellow lights.

 

Some Ford trucks drive me nuts this way, with the same light for turnsignals as for brakes.

bigelm

I honestly don't see the big deal with it... though I'll agree that it is somewhat 'comfortable' to know that it's a turn signal vs. stopping.

 

But since I'll be "in" the vehicle, I couldn't care less what the driver behind me thinks... :-p

gearhead4

Subaru seems to be changing on the amber rear turn signal issue. All of the 2005 Legacy Sedans have red turn signals in the rear.

 

Jim

c_hunter

They are red. I didn't see any hint of orange in the tail light lenses.

 

Craig

c_hunter

Ken, there was no mention of performance, and I have no idea what the gearing is like. Gearing is really the last unknown that would allow us to estimate performance better.

 

I am pretty sure that is cosmolene -- it would be typical to apply it at a hinge attachment point. I bet our new SIA buddy will know for sure.

 

Craig

imagesandwords

I would guess in the same range as the XC90 2.5T.

 

Going based on about 4300lbs pulled by the current H6.

0-60 9.5sec

1/4mile: high 16s in the mid 80mph range.

60-0: About 130ft

600ft slalom: about 60mph.

Skid pad: about 0.75g

sweet_subie

I sad to see Subaru following Honda on this. I hate this on american brands. Why can't they use amber ?

sweet_subie

http://members.cox.net/harmony.hunter/b9web/images/1.html

 

This Pic truly demostrates that the front grille is NOT as promiment as others thought.

 

Now, i really like Tribeca

robr2

I've become accepting of the grill. I'm not enamored though of how the headlights break the planes of the hood and fender. It's like they stick up and out.

 

I guess if they swooped more like the lights on the 911, they'd look better to me.

 

I notice the same design on the Sienna, Camry, ES300, the new Odyssey even.

sweet_subie

way to go....how many more can i convince ?

rsholland

SUVs and crossovers are really hard to "style." I'm not just talking about the Tribeca, but all vehicles that fall into those categories. This is especially true of crossovers, as they try to combine the "soft" visual elements common to cars with a truck-like shape that's big and bulky.

 

I think the Tribeca is among the best looking in this group. Only the X5 and XC90 are in the same class, in terms of looks, IMO. The Murano is also good looking, but I still prefer the Tribeca.

 

Bob

sweet_subie

Anyone in Boston Area would like to join me for the Rhode Island Auto Show on Jan 29th(sat) to see Tribeca ?

 

Let me know

robr2

SUVs and crossovers are really hard to "style." I'm not just talking about the Tribeca, but all vehicles that fall into those categories. This is especially true of crossovers, as they try to combine the "soft" visual elements common to cars with a truck-like shape that's big and bulky.

 

Bob - overall the shape is very nice. I just dislike how the headlights protrude from the body. Smoothing them down ala Cayenne shouldn't have been that difficult.

robr2

way to go....how many more can i convince ?

 

Don't get too excited, I said accepting - not stupid in puppy love!

 

As for the RI Auto Show, where is it being held?

cptplt

hmmm, red ones huh. well I'll just pray they may be like those VW ones which look real red but actually flash yellow. if you look at the subarunews.net site, one photo sure looks like they are yellow!

the Legacy sedans have red ones??? yuck, no wonder I only like wagons!

 

one mans fetish is anothers security blanket!

sweet_subie

http://www.motortrendautoshows.com/providence/

sweet_subie

http://motortrend.com/autoshows/coverage/112_05_detroitautoshow/i- ndex6.html#2

 

Don't laugh, but this crossover SUV powered by the Outback wagon's 3.0-liter flat-six and five-speed automatic is intended to outperform BMW's X5 3.0i. Check the stats: relative to the BMW's inline six the Subie makes 25 more horsepower (250 total), and the truck weighs 450 pounds less, giving it a 19 percent advantage in weight-to-power. The front strut/rear multi-link suspension is tuned to closely match the handling dynamics of the BMW, while softening the suspension settings for improved ride quality. Fat 255/55R18 Goodyear Eagles match the size of the X5's sport suspension tires. Where Subaru clearly trumps BMW is in interior space efficiency. Stretching just five inches longer on a 2.8-inch shorter wheelbase, the B9 Tribeca fits three rows of seats (a third-row-delete option will be offered). Max cargo space with the seats folded flat appears to be much larger than in the BMW. Of course, learning to love Subaru's new airplane-inspired nose may take time.

jeffmc

Aw c'mon... even if it wasn't in Providence, isn't the rest of the state pretty much within a 15-minute drive anyway? I just can't image the Rhode Island Auto Show being too far away to drive to for anyone living in Rhode Island.

 

kidding ;P

sweet_subie

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/0501/17/G03-57725.htm

sweet_subie

http://www.lafayettejc.com/news20050116/200501160local_business11- 05851670.shtml

jjman

I am not a fan of this vehicle but when I saw this article on autoweek it kinda blew my mind. Since I haven't seen anyone mention it here it is:

 

http://autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101611

 

Can someone tell me if Subaru execs have gone crazy??!!

sweet_subie

no, that was meant for fully loaded one.

 

Sub sales manager in Boston told me in the subaru new england dealers conference thy told him, it starts from 32k till 40k

trueawd

It's still supposed to be around 32 - 38. That's what all teh Subaru dealers have been saying they are hearing.

nippononly

$37K, this car will be overpriced. I was amazed when I read there would be a $40K version.

 

As for the BMW 3.0, don't forget that the 3L six will produce 255 hp beginning this year (in a few months) with the intro of the new 3-series.

 

What Subaru should aim for is a base model Tribeca that undercuts the priciest Outbacks by a couple of thousand, say $30K or so. And $40K for ANY Subaru is too much at this juncture. Just think, the Saab version will UNDERCUT it in price, in a unique and ironic twist of events.

alpha01

Wait, how is the Saab version going to undercut it in price? The Tribeca is barely out, and we already having pricing and features info on the Saab version?

 

-Joe

sweet_subie

give me a break. 37k is not overpriced. how do you justify Murano's price ?

Kirstie_H

Apparantly, even Nissan are having trouble justifying Murano's price. Sales aren't great. They're being beaten by the Pacifica - a car with average-to-poor reliability & visibility.

ateixeira

$37k overpriced? Then what are these?

 

Pilot $36k (aftermarket DVD)

HL $39k

Rendezvous Ultra $42k

MDX $44k

X5 3.0 $53k

 

Grossly overpriced? I'll calculate some more soon. But look around, prices are that high every where, even for a loaded Explorer.

 

If the headlights were flat and they removed that character line above the rear fender than it would be a Cayenne. It already looks a bit too much like the Cayenne. Something has to distinguish it.

 

The Saab version will definitely cost more. A loaded 9-2x breaks $30k, you really think a 9-6X will start at less than $32k?

 

No way, Jose.

 

-juice

Kirstie_H

MSRP is only the asking price. Subaru can ask anything they like for the vehicle, but the market determines what people pay. When we first looked at a Pacifica, you basically couldn't get one for under $38K. The market brought that way down.

 

Checking around our Prices Paid discussions makes it evident that for most models, MSRP is only a starting point, and if the vehicle is "overpriced," it will undersell til there's a pricing correction.

ateixeira

Caddy SRX V6: $39,035

Luxury Performance pkg: $13,660

AWD: $1900

 

Total is $54,595 and that's the V6, not V8.

 

$10,000 rebate and the Subaru still has a $5 grand price advantage, plus it's nicer inside IMO.

 

-juice

ateixeira

While I agree, invoice price is generally 10% below the MSRP, so it's still useful for comparison purposes as long as you take that into account.

 

People are reacting to a sub-$40k Tribeca as being overpriced at MSRP, I'm proving them wrong. In fact very few competitors do not break $40k with the equipment the Subie will have.

 

-juice

ateixeira

Pacifica AWD Limited: $36,995

Nav $1695

DVD $990

 

$39,680

 

In fact the prices might just shadow the Tribeca, and which one will be worth more 3-5 years from now? I bet the Subaru holds its value much better.

 

Add them to my list:

 

Pilot $36k (aftermarket DVD)

HL $39k

Pacifica $40k

Rendezvous Ultra $42k

MDX $44k

X5 3.0 $53k

SRX V6 $55k

 

-juice

Kirstie_H

Unfortunately, as I was stating, there's no way to prove them wrong until the vehicle hits the market. Invoice pricing can change just as well as MSRP. And iIf the Tribeca doesn't sell well, you can bet the whole pricing structure will change. Likewise, if it's hot, hot, hot, you can bet pricing will increase (see MINI Cooper).

 

Some of the models you mentioned are having trouble finding buyers, so it's difficult to compare. However, most manufacturers (Subaru included) have a big pricing team who research the market, and make every attempt to price new models to sell. But there's no way to prove that they've gotten it right or wrong til they're taking orders & making sales.

Kirstie_H

Pacifica AWD Limited: $36,995

Nav $1695

DVD $990

$39,680

 

I've got one of these, and I can assure you that the final purchase price was nowhere near that amount. Not even close - like, >20% off.

ateixeira

Sure, why not.

 

AWD Limited is $36,235

Nav+6CD+SAC pkg $1990

DVD $1200

moonroof $850

heated seats $250

3rd row split fold $150

 

Cheap eh? LOL

 

$40,675. You gotta get a V8 to get all that stuff but I bet it's the slowest in the whole group, given the curb weight. At least it can tow/haul a bunch.

 

-juice

Kirstie_H

...and if it sounds like I'm arguing that the price is too high, I'm not necessarily. This is a vehicle I intend to look at closely for myself.

ateixeira

Kirstie: I agree, the market will make whatever corrections it needs to.

 

Freestyle might be the only one that costs substantially less. I'll do that one soon.

 

Explorer first. I know these are trucks, but I'm throwing them in this exercise just for kicks.

 

4WD Eddie Bauer V6: $36,500

SAC $560

DVD $1295

rear A/C $650

sunroof $850

3rd seat $745

 

Total is $40,600.

 

-juice

ateixeira

Pilot $36k (aftermarket DVD)

HL $39k

Pacifica $40k

Durango $41k

Explorer $41k

Rendezvous Ultra $42k

MDX $44k

X5 3.0 $53k

SRX V6 $55k

 

Maybe we can do "street prices" later, TMV or actual prices from no-haggle dealers. I agree that will be even more useful, but since all we have now is MSRP, I'll keep going.

 

-juice

rsholland

You have to use MSRP, as street prices often reflect the customer's ability (or lack-there-of) to negotiate.

 

Bob