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Comments
Anyway, the nice list generated by juce illustrates my problem perfectly. Find one vehicle on that list that has the useable space like a minivan but the ability to tow like an SUV. Thats whats missing form the market. If I could have both in one package at $45k or less I would have been happy and it would have SAVED me money!! Yes, I did look at some of the GM 12 passenger size vans but they make my Sienna feel like an Lotus Elise with a Lexus interior.
So I'm stuck buying a used tow mule to pull the trailers we are looking at. Which means I spent $32 for a minivan and now I need a another $20k (used) or so for a tow vehicle that can pull around 6500lbs. Sure the Explorer, Durango, Grand Cherokee, and the other more hard core SUVs can easily pull that but they dont have the space we need on a regular basis and dont drive as well as a minivan.
Bob
for instance if i want the size of the pilot with seating for 7, no leather/sunroof/dvd/nav msrp is 30k. from what i read beats the base 5 seater tribeca.
so expensive and featured up the wazoo yes, but if ya need 7 seats, awd less expensive options others are out there.
maybe that is what others are saying?
With statements like that, you are NEVER going to get your $30k Tribeca. ;-P
You of all people should be saying that it's only worth $30k. If you say it's worth $40k, you'll never get one for $30k. :-D
DaveM
We need to see the content and price of the various Tribeca trim levels. Then juice can compare each trim level against the competiton. :-)
BTW, you left out the X3.
DaveM
That's essentually the same case with the CRV and Forester. Yes, the CRV is a lot roomier, and so forth, but the Forester is more nimble and more fun to drive.
Bob
yes features tribeca does ok its the size/price issue thats all.
btw bob do you know the answer on inches from end of 2nd seat fully back to tail gate?
maybe its like plasma screens. some people just buy the cheapest 42" one no matter.....
Yes, and I can speak to those CRV vs Forester issues from first-hand experience. BTW, my daughter chose the CRV, not because she disliked Subarus, but more so because she wanted something different—and yeah, the extra room did appeal to her. She may have my genes, but not my (car-oriented) DNA.
btw bob do you know the answer on inches from end of 2nd seat fully back to tail gate?
Sorry, but no I don't. I know we measured a bunch of stuff, but I just don't remember. I guess we should have wrote that down, or photographed it...
Bob
If anyone has a good side profile picture of the vehicle with back door open, we could estimate the dimension pretty accurately (using wheel diameter to calibrate the estimate).
Craig
Explorer, maybe? It sells well for a reason. It's big and capable. Durango is the other option.
No, neither will drive nearly as nicely as your van.
Swampy: sorry to hog the bandwidth, but that was the quickest way to create a long list. That was a lot of research! :-)
7 seats, awd less expensive options others are out there
Absolutely, no way can Subaru be all things to all people. Remember how small they are. They had to pick a relatively small portion of the $25-50k mid-size SUV segment.
But they are in the middle, not in the high-end of the price scale, not by any means.
And Swampy, you make it sound like Subaru has to build a vehicle that EVERY SINGLE person will prefer! 1% market share, remember that. If 98% of people buy something else, they just doubled their sales! LOL
Dave: X3 is tiny and the Forester XT can smoke it, so I didn't bother. The interior makes Rubbermaid trash cans look good. It can't hold a candle to the Tribeca.
We did photograph the cargo legth, by the way, I remember you asking for that. I think I'd narrarated the first 71 photos, I'll start the rest soon.
-juice
I'll price it out for you even though I won't include it on my list, as it is way too small to compete directly.
Any how, start at $36,995, add leather $1450, moonroof $1350, cold pkg for $750, 18" rims for $500, Nav $1800, 6CD $675, tinted windows $350, and you reach $43,870.
$44k for the smallest SUV on the list. With no DVD player at all. Yikes.
And when you recall that Magna-Steyr builds the thing in a non-BMW plant, and then remember the cheap interior, this is perhaps the most overpriced SUV on the list.
Wow, maybe I should include it on the list since the Tribeca compares so favorably. ;-)
-juice
This is a very late reply, but yes, you can BUY an RX fully loaded for $40K. (In fact, my sister just did)
It is a very competitve market for SUVs. No offense, but I think your glasses are a little rosy if you think Subaru is just going to waltz into a crowded market and blow away the competition.
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but let's be reasonable. And Curteously reasonable, please. ;-)
Edit: Just catching up on posts. Sorry, Juice. I didn't realize you already got the rose colored glasses. ;-)
tom
Those glasses are mine! Stay away! LOL
-juice
I think the general population has a hard time accepting that a Subaru can be price at ~$40k. Being that they are shying away of their reputable motto and how they made cars; it's difficult for the consumer to justify it's price. I guess no one can see building vehicles with some 'class'. But of course, they'll come running if it was a premium at $25k. Then everyone would call Subaru insane, stupid or would question the quality build.
So... you'll never please anyone no matter what you do!
A 7 seater with leather might run about $32k street price, is my guess.
Nav and DVD are luxury items. You gotta pay to play. Sure the price goes up, but please see my list above to see just how much it goes up for competitors, too.
And before anyone says that's a bad thing, look at the discounts the Pilot needs now. It's a competitive market, and that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
Should they have built a "stripped" model? Well, that's what Chrysler has now done with the Pacifica, they added a de-contented model with a weaker pushrod engine to lower the price.
Does that jibe with Subaru's new image, with all the progress they made with the Legacy? Remember, prices went up but so did sales. Prices went up even before you factor in the rebates that disappeared after MY2004, too.
I'm asking, you tell me. They could delete the seat heaters, heated mirrors, de-icers, power seats, auto climate control, rear A/C, VTD AWD, and produce a cost-competitive cheapie model, but do you guys think that would increase profits for Subaru overall?
-juice
The Tribeca and the SRX had the potential to be THAT vehicle but not quite right. Still, they are really nice. Of that list, I think I drove just about everything and the SRX was the most impressive to me overall. The version I drove had the maganetic ride control (or something like that) and it was amazing on the highway. Its weird to get road feel but no jarring at all and then to have nearly flat cornering. Dont know how it works but its pretty cool. Even the "dealer car" was at my limit with the packages it had.
The Land Rover LR3 is also rated to tow 7715, and does have a 3rd row seat. They're ~ $50K or so though I think.
Bob
Too bad - the Sprinter might have been an alternative but only 5,000 lbs. capacity.
Drop roadside assistance
Lower powertrain warranty to 3/36
Drop the Sportshift feature
Delete the split-fold in the 3rd row
Delete the split fold 60 section of 2nd row
Delete on-board computer
Delete temp gauge
Delete front side torso airbags
Delete side-airbag curtains
Delete VDC, ABD, VTD and use auto-AWD instead
Delete cruise control
Delete heated seats
Delete heated mirrors
Delete wiper de-icer
Delete both power seats
Delete dual-zone climate control
Delete rear A/C (7 pax)
Delete keyless entry
Cheapen base wheels with 16" or 17"
Delete lights on vanity mirrors
Delete sunroof
Delete MP3
Delete fog lights
Delete Homelink
Delete electroluminescent gauges
Delete security system
Delete projector beam headlights
Delete air filtration
And then you have an average vehicle that noone would want, is my view. We'd all be whining about cost cutting.
Let's try this - see if we can all agree on what 3 items we would all sacrifice from that list. I bet none of us agree on which 3.
I'd be willing to give up the security system, let my insurance worty about that. Then the rear A/C, since the 3rd row would only be in use on occasion. 3rd would be Homelink, since I have a car port instead of a garage.
That might lower the price a couple hundred or so, that is if we could all agree on cost cutting those items.
-juice
On the left, you have those who are totally enamoured with this vehicle and would praise it no matter what. They've already decided they want one before even sitting in it, let alone driving one!
On the right, you have those who criticize it to death.
But bottom line is, until we can test drive one, this is all pointless. The proof is in the pudding, as the old saying goes.
Sly
Just an observations..
Delete wiper deicer - who really cares?
Delete passenger power seat - who uses it?
Drop wheels to 17 or even 16 if they clear - 18 is bling, not performance and just wait until someone goes to buy new ones in 2 years.
On the positive - at least they got the exterior door handles right. They should put those on the Legacy.
anotherwagon: it's the same here with the Sienna. You'll find hoards of CE and LE models at invoice, but the rare loaded up XLE with DVD has much bigger markups if you're lucky enough to find even one.
Subaru is gambling that people want the content, not a chassis with an engine and tires.
-juice
But if I could delete the automatic completely and get a manual, well, now you're talking.
Wiper de-icer - I'm tired of a frozen windshield on the Miata. Gimme a head start at least. I'd love to have this feature.
Passenger power seat - I could live without that I guess. But there you go, 2/3rds of what you want cut I'd love to have.
18" is what'll give it the performance. Forester XT has 16" and that's not enough, everyone wants more and they have to look at STi springs on top of that.
I guess the problem is if you delete Sportshift and give it 16" wheels then indeed it WOULD compete directly with the Pilot. Then you'd buy a Pilot, Subaru would lose you anyway.
-juice
Subaru folks- $40 ??? NOOOOOO
I should have gone further - offer a real manual. Sportshift just doesn't do it for me.
I guess the problem is if you delete Sportshift and give it 16" wheels then indeed it WOULD compete directly with the Pilot. Then you'd buy a Pilot, Subaru would lose you anyway.
Not automatically - I'm not a fan of SUV's in general. The Pilot is nice but it's not what I'm looking for.
No stick - no sale.
As for the wheels - what turns me away from the Legacy GT wagon are the 17" wheels. I have to drop at least another grand into a 17" winter wheel package because of the brakes. I wouldn't be suprised to see the same thing with the Tribeca. Plus low profile 18's
wouldn't survive here in Boston.
The wiper deicer - ehh. Even here in Boston I'd say it would be handy a couple of times per year.
Bob
We called a local dealer today and they pretty much knew zip. Told us to wait until the auto show in April and that they would be here in the summer.
Why? Well, the Spec B is a 6 speed, and I believe it's the only manual tranny that has mated up to the H6 engine, in any market.
So my guess is we'd see a 6 speed manual as a no-cost option. I do not think that would drop the price.
If it were my car, I'd take it even for the same amount. For the wife I'd probably opt for the Sportshift.
-juice
Bob
$40k would be loaded to the gills MSRP. I asked it if would exceed $40k and they said no way. That means at most $39,995 MSRP with DVD and Navigation, 7 seater with heated leather.
Loaded to the gills, basically, 10% less would be about $36k invoice price. So a street price around there, maybe. After 3 months of initial high demand.
-juice
Thanks!
Actually I want to see two 6-speeds: The Spec B unit and a 6EAT. With only 3 liters at hand, the more gears the better.
Oh, and add in a dual-range for those who pull boat trailers up steep boat launch ramps.
Bob
Also, does anyone know if it is 50 state certified? If not add another couple of hundred bucks for CA emissions just like on the Legacy.
sduford: I guess this is where the comment "Either you love it or hate it" comes in ;-)
I have a sour taste in my mouth everytime this vehicle is compared to the Freestyle. It's nowhere near the B9, in AWD, performance (based on Subaru's heritage), reliability, quality (no it's not job #1 for Ford), styling and well, it's a Ford! The Freestyle being a lifted station wagon shouldn't be in the same sentence. As the B9 (avoided the same sentence) :-p
I agree, same with it being compared to the Chrysler Pacifica.
Bob
Ya see? We could never agree on what to do. Subaru chose a nice middle, above the cheap brands and below the full-luxury ones. Priced it accordingly.
My experience has been great. Bottom line is that most Subaru owners have multiple Subarus in their family. We have 5 currently. Me, wife, dad, brother, and sister.
The H6 engine has been virtually flawless, perhaps the best current engine Subaru makes.
-juice
Freebie, as they call it, is the WalMart of 7 passenger vehicles. Built to cost.
-juice
Bob
We are now seriously considering cancelling out the F...style. And are going to look very closely at the B9 model when the time comes. (Two sentences.) To be honest, we've had some doubts, this just kind of pushed us over the edge.
I say your best example to test drive how it feels in a 'lifted' station wagon would be the Outback LL Bean which has the H6 engine in it. This will help you to better get a feel of how Subarus handle and perform.
Go here to familiarize yourself with the B9:
http:\b9tribeca.com