Thanks Jeff! I'm warming up to it now in the darker colors. The top 2 do make it look more appealing to me, and of course the black looks sharp. DW likes the top one and doesn't mind the overall look.
5 years ago I bought a forester, and I was the strongest supporter of the brand in my neighborhood. I was the perfect client for an upgrade to the Tribeca. Then, FHI blew it all. I was scheduling a trip to the Detroit show, just to show my wife our next car. Forget about it, I´m with the Pilot, or if I can convince her, a G35 coupe. As you see, beauty is real, and no one is going to convince me of the "beauty" of this thing. Remember the WRX googles of the '01 model? FHI had to change the look in less than 2 years. I foresee the same this time. For all of you idealizing Rosie O Donnell, I tell you one thing, I prefer Jlo. I give'em 6 months until they promise a change. Sales are going to show i´m right. WELCOME TO THE NEXT BAJA.
I would argue that the WRX sold despite the guppy look primarily because it was a fantastic performance bargain. The B9 Whatever will not have that pull.
this project would probably die a slow death. But there are lots of die-hard loyal Subaru owners whose cars were never eye-candy to start with.
I am reserving my opinions until interior and performance features and specs are avaiable. There is still time to do some tweaking of trim features before production start-up, and FHI will almost certainly hold the production date and make some changes if intial reaction is hesitant or unfavorable. In the meantime,if rumors of 29 mpg HWY and a well-designed and equipped interior layout are verified in Detroit, that will start building a potential customer base.
I think FHI is smart to ignore the HP wars in the SUV category and follow the market trend in mini-vans toward more/better interior features and efficient performance. Nobody who wants zero-to 60mph in under 7 seconds or really needs over 5000 lb. towing capacity is a potential customer for this vehicle, anyway. On the other hand, there are a million moms out there who are tired of trying to navigate their Expedition/Suburban around parking lots and spending more money on gas each week than on groceries for their families. For example, if Tribeca truly has adjustable slide forward<>backward middle row seats, that will draw cheers from the parents of young children who cant get the kids and car seats in and out of their Forester or Outback. If it has a disappearing third row seat, that will appeal to families who want the capability to carry extra kids for an unplanned after school get-together or to load the dog or a load of firewood in the back on outdoor weekends.
Lighten up guys, Subarus are supposed to be ugly. ;-)
More seriously, the profile looks gorgeous, I really think they nailed it. It looks more like a large version of the highly acclaimed Mazda3 5 door more than then Murano like we thought earlier.
I'd like to see a mesh grille insert to lighten up the front end, and the color they chose is awful. That black looks best but the OCD in me would have me looking at other colors.
Rear end reminds me of the BMW X5, mostly those broad shoulders, but it fortunately escapes the ugly concave flame surfacing and instead gets along with muscular bulges and convex shapes.
The 3rd picture, pure profile, is the most flattering, in fact I'd go out on a limb and say it looks hot.
The hood bulges are not that pronounced, but it might be the lighting. I like the headlights, and you can tell they have bulges and blisters to make them interesting, the Sienna's are more flat.
Ground clearance looks good, the black lower cladding looks low-maintenance and also visually lifts the car, so it doesn't end up looking like a wagon.
I don't see Cayenne in it like in some early sketches.
I do see some MDX, Murano, and X5 influences, though. That's fine, part of the target market.
The same people with negative comments probably think the X5 is ugly yet it's a best seller.
I don't see Cayenne in it like in some early sketches.
Speaking of the Cayenne—another highly criticized vehicle, BTW... I bet it brings in new customers to Subaru, much as the Cayenne did for Porsche. Also, the Cayenne, like it or not, is the main reason Porsche is having such a good sales year.
IIRC, the Cayenne brought in new sales but not new customers. Porsche's goal was to keep Boxster and 911 buyers from supplementing their fleets with Range Rovers and Escalades. I'm sure it brought in some new buyers though.
Perhaps those who find the Mitsubishi Outlander attractive will consider this.
Well, I don't think the MDX or X5 are ugly. In fact I liked both when they first came out, but they didn't age well. After just a couple of years they became boring and uninspiring.
But that's OK, my Highlander was also boring, and it became the best seller in its class in Canada. But it offered excellent value for the money.
If the MDX and X5 customers are the target market as you suggest, then I think the B9 is going to be even more of a failure. It will not have the refined and powerful engines of those two cars, nor will it match them in fit and finish or luxury. That is unless Subaru makes another giant leap forward on that front, but I do not think they are capable or ready to do that.
But hey, I will reserve final judgement until I can actually see and drive one. But my expectations are pretty low at this point.
If Subaru loses 3 (so-called) loyal customers over this, but gains 10 new ones, I would say that's a pretty good trade off. Even if they only bring in 5 new customers, that's a net gain of 2—but more important—2 buying a very profitable vehicle.
If the MDX and X5 customers are the target market as you suggest, then I think the B9 is going to be even more of a failure. It will not have the refined and powerful engines of those two cars, nor will it match them in fit and finish or luxury. That is unless Subaru makes another giant leap forward on that front, but I do not think they are capable or ready to do that.
Now how do know that Sly, especially pertaining to fit and finish? Do you know something we all don't?
I do hate to admit it, but more than half of Porsche's sales are Cayennes.
I don't think it looks much like a Cayenne, though. Cayenne looks like a 911 sitting on top of a trailer, its nose is so high. Subaru managed to avoid that.
MDX looks too van-like, so you can tell its derived from a minivan. But it sold well.
X5 is kinda dull, especially the front. But again, it sold. It does not look like a wagon, maybe that's it.
The B9 Tribeca definitely does not look like a wagon. Agree or disagree?
As for Baja - no way. Baja took a too-conservative Outback design (face especially) and then tacked on cladding and picked the ugliest color combo known to man, Big Bird Yellow and Silver.
Tribeca is nearly the opposite. Bold face with integrated flares and a boring color.
20/29 would be unbelievable. I hope so. Those of you that have known me for along time know I made a pledge to never buy a vehicle that did not get at least 20 mpg EPA city, and so far I've been able to keep that pledge.
Only the new Ody van with VCM and this Tribeca would allow me to keep that promise and still have the capacity I want.
Prices aren't even set yet. They'll be key, though.
They made it look like the X5 and that's what they'll likely compare it to, which might mean prices will be optimistic. If so, you'll be right about incentives.
But 20/29 mpg and an non-HP-boosted H6 might mean they're taking a value angle (I hope).
"Now how do know that Sly, especially pertaining to fit and finish? Do you know something we all don't? "
I'm simply basing that on the fit and finish, comfort, and attention to details that I see in my OBXT. It is not bad, but it is hardly world class and certainly not up to what you find in an MDX, RX-330, or X5. So I'm saying Subaru will have a hard time swaying a large number of buyers from that market without another giant leap forward.
Given that Subaru just went through such an attempt at going upmarket with the 05s, I doubt they have another one in them, and they still have quite a few lessons to learn even on the 05s.
So I say, based on the info we have so far, that Subaru will not have the performance, quality and luxury to compete at the 37-40K price point with the big boys.
A great design could make up for some of that, but the pictures we've seen don't indicate that will be the case. I'd say a few people will love the design (as happened with the Aztec), and the car will be yet another niche vehicle. It will mostly appeal to existing Subaru owners who already trust the brand.
I'd love to be proven wrong here, but I don't see any indications that I will be (yet)! Hopefully Subaru is fooling us all and will come out with a winner in Detroit.
you just gotta wonder if all that marketing money went for drugs when they came up with that nose.
mpg sounds good but given weight and engine this car does not cut it for the full acceleration needs getting onto highway here ( uphill, curves before you pull out, cars doing 70mph ). i need that '05 legacy gt or fxt power.
btw i saw my first legacy gt sedan in black the other day. first time i ever said dayum when looking at a subaru.
You really feel the current RX and MDX are 'radical' designs? Both strike me as classy, the RX a bit aggressive... but fairly vanilla.
BMW has face lifted the X5 alot because its been around a LONG time. Typical Japanese vehicles run 5 model years with one face lift, so maybe thats your comparison point, but given the vehicles age, I dont think there have been that many.
Never been a big fan of either vehicle, either their looks or the vehicles themselves. Of the two I prefer the MDX. From what I see, and the little that I know, I like the B9 Tribeca better than either of those two.
Then I will probably stay with my silver 2005 Legacy LTD wagon. The whole Legacy/Outback is Subaru styling at its best. Plus since I don't need a 7 passenger the 2.5i for $26,000 is truly value.
TWRX, loving his latest Subaru even if it is not a turbo.
Looks like an Alfa Romeo ripoff. But that's ok because no one here has seen a modern Alfa.
Except it's odd on a large vehicle. It's not purely ugly like I feared, but it's gonna take some getting used to. Is this change really the right thing to do at the same time you're trying to upscale?
Is this change really the right thing to do at the same time you're trying to upscale?
(1) The new look and going upscale are inexorably linked. Subaru believes that having their own unique look is essential if they are going to be successful as a premium brand, as every player in that segment has their own look. You'll never confuse a Volvo for a BMW or a Mercedes. Subaru wants that same type of visual distinction. I agree.
(2) This new look signals to everyone, this is not just a new Subaru, but it is a "new" way to think of Subaru, both as a brand and as a product.
I agree that a distinctive/unique look is essential to brand recognition of a premium brand.
That look can be as simple a a distinctive grill. Take Volvo's diagonal bar and BMW's double-kidney grill, they both have been used for decades and have been successfully integrated into wildly different car shapes. For example, Volvo has been using variations of that grill since the 140/240 days, through the boxy 740/960 models, and today's much shapelier S40/60/80.
But the secret is to have that design element well integrated into a coherent whole. This is where I think the B9 fails miserably. The grill just doesn't look like it belongs on that front-end.
But the secret is to have that design element well integrated into a coherent whole. This is where I think the B9 fails miserably. The grill just doesn't look like it belongs on that front-end.
I respectfully disagree. The front of the new B9 meshes with the rest of the car in the same way as do the (unique) front ends of Volvos, BMWs, et al. The only difference is that with BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, etc., is that you're used to those front ends. You've seen them for years. There's an established "comfort level" there; not so with the new B9.
As to "being used for decades," well, you gotta start somewhere...
Well, design and looks is something that each person will have a different reaction to.
However, I wasn't talking about the integration of the front-end with the rest of the car. I was talking about the integration of the grill with the rest of the nose. Glad it works for you, but it sure doesn't work for me! Now perhaps these pictures are misleading and I will have a different reaction when I see it in person. But as it stands now, I think that is one of the ugliest front ends on the market today!
It's really irrelevent though: I would not buy an underpowered $40K Subaru no matter how good it looks! And unless Autoweek is wrong, that is exactly what this car is!
And I again ask - why didn't they start with the Legacy/Outback? Why bring out a new corporate face when your sales leader is less than one year old?
Easy. There's less risk (for Subaru) with an all-new car than with one that's already established.
Look, Subaru knows there will be a lot of (initial) negative reaction to their new look—or "any" new look, for that matter, be it this one, or some other new look. Why risk losing Legacy/Outback buyers, which is their core market right now. It's far less risky for them to introduce this new look on a car (and market segment) they've never attempted before. It's just smart business, nothing else.
I don't know, I think Subaru can do better than to take risks on their products. They should be innovating and coming up with sure-fire hits rather than taking risks with controversial designs. In recent years, Apple is a prime example of a company with a lot of successful products that are innovative without being risky. They know what customers want and deliver it.
Before Subaru dives in to establish themselves with this new look, linked to upscale, I hope they know Suzuki is already using it!
Don't you think Subaru has weighed all the issues involved? Don't you think they have internally asked all the same questions everyone has been asking here? Don't you think they have wrestled with this decision to move upmarket, and what's involved, and all the risks entailed?
Anytime you change, there is risk involved. Don't you think Subaru knows this?
When the Nissan Murano and Armada first debuted, there were a lot out there who hated those designs; same with Infiniti FX models, when they debuted; all of which are selling very well.
Like it or not the Cayenne is Porsches biggest seller.
A lot of people hate the new-look Audi and VW, same with the big nose bulge on the Mercedes new sports cars—and do I have to even mention the Bangle-designed BMWs—which are selling quite well, BTW?
change is almost always difficult to deal with. Nobody likes to be moved out of their comfort level. You just have to trust that Subaru knows what they are doing.
Bob, why should we trust SUbaru? because they have a history of coming out with radical new designs that are actually successful? Like the SVX and the Baja perhaps?
Sorry, I couldn't resist
Also, I personally thrive on change, and I tend to have positive reactions to new and ground breaking designs. I don't think this design is ground breaking though, just another minivan-like SUV, except this one has the ugly Groucho nose treatment. It tries to be original, but it fails in my book.
I'm just trying to bring some understanding as to what they are doing and why, that's all.
I still say, over time, the look will grow on you. You may never warm up to it completely, but I'd be surprised, if a year from now, you still feel as strongly about it as you do now.
Especially as compared to the awkward front end of the exterior, the interior of the vehicle (shown with Nav and light beige leather) is quite original, very stylish, and extremely beautiful in my opinion. Theres some resemblance to the interior of the new Infiniti M series, to my eyes, not a bad thing at all.
And, FWIW, the vehicle actually looks better in the C/D pic than the ones posted here. Still not a beaut, but as Bob said, it will likely grow on people. But how much?
Comments
I still like the overall shape of the vehicle, and the rear. Its just that nose...
Joe
-Brian
Not sure how you could be shopping for a 7 seater, but yet still would consider a coupe.
Even with 'goggles', the WRX sold.
-Brian
Joe
Sly
I am reserving my opinions until interior and performance features and specs are avaiable. There is still time to do some tweaking of trim features before production start-up, and FHI will almost certainly hold the production date and make some changes if intial reaction is hesitant or unfavorable. In the meantime,if rumors of 29 mpg HWY and a well-designed and equipped interior layout are verified in Detroit, that will start building a potential customer base.
I think FHI is smart to ignore the HP wars in the SUV category and follow the market trend in mini-vans toward more/better interior features and efficient performance. Nobody who wants zero-to 60mph in under 7 seconds or really needs over 5000 lb. towing capacity is a potential customer for this vehicle, anyway. On the other hand, there are a million moms out there who are tired of trying to navigate their Expedition/Suburban around parking lots and spending more money on gas each week than on groceries for their families. For example, if Tribeca truly has adjustable slide forward<>backward middle row seats, that will draw cheers from the parents of young children who cant get the kids and car seats in and out of their Forester or Outback. If it has a disappearing third row seat, that will appeal to families who want the capability to carry extra kids for an unplanned after school get-together or to load the dog or a load of firewood in the back on outdoor weekends.
Mark
Update the design and don't "Zap" it.
-Dennis
More seriously, the profile looks gorgeous, I really think they nailed it. It looks more like a large version of the highly acclaimed Mazda3 5 door more than then Murano like we thought earlier.
I'd like to see a mesh grille insert to lighten up the front end, and the color they chose is awful. That black looks best but the OCD in me would have me looking at other colors.
Rear end reminds me of the BMW X5, mostly those broad shoulders, but it fortunately escapes the ugly concave flame surfacing and instead gets along with muscular bulges and convex shapes.
The 3rd picture, pure profile, is the most flattering, in fact I'd go out on a limb and say it looks hot.
The hood bulges are not that pronounced, but it might be the lighting. I like the headlights, and you can tell they have bulges and blisters to make them interesting, the Sienna's are more flat.
Ground clearance looks good, the black lower cladding looks low-maintenance and also visually lifts the car, so it doesn't end up looking like a wagon.
I don't see Cayenne in it like in some early sketches.
I do see some MDX, Murano, and X5 influences, though. That's fine, part of the target market.
The same people with negative comments probably think the X5 is ugly yet it's a best seller.
-juice
Speaking of the Cayenne—another highly criticized vehicle, BTW... I bet it brings in new customers to Subaru, much as the Cayenne did for Porsche. Also, the Cayenne, like it or not, is the main reason Porsche is having such a good sales year.
Bob
Perhaps those who find the Mitsubishi Outlander attractive will consider this.
But that's OK, my Highlander was also boring, and it became the best seller in its class in Canada. But it offered excellent value for the money.
If the MDX and X5 customers are the target market as you suggest, then I think the B9 is going to be even more of a failure. It will not have the refined and powerful engines of those two cars, nor will it match them in fit and finish or luxury. That is unless Subaru makes another giant leap forward on that front, but I do not think they are capable or ready to do that.
But hey, I will reserve final judgement until I can actually see and drive one. But my expectations are pretty low at this point.
Sly
Bob
Now how do know that Sly, especially pertaining to fit and finish? Do you know something we all don't?
Bob
I don't think it looks much like a Cayenne, though. Cayenne looks like a 911 sitting on top of a trailer, its nose is so high. Subaru managed to avoid that.
MDX looks too van-like, so you can tell its derived from a minivan. But it sold well.
X5 is kinda dull, especially the front. But again, it sold. It does not look like a wagon, maybe that's it.
The B9 Tribeca definitely does not look like a wagon. Agree or disagree?
As for Baja - no way. Baja took a too-conservative Outback design (face especially) and then tacked on cladding and picked the ugliest color combo known to man, Big Bird Yellow and Silver.
Tribeca is nearly the opposite. Bold face with integrated flares and a boring color.
20/29 would be unbelievable. I hope so. Those of you that have known me for along time know I made a pledge to never buy a vehicle that did not get at least 20 mpg EPA city, and so far I've been able to keep that pledge.
Only the new Ody van with VCM and this Tribeca would allow me to keep that promise and still have the capacity I want.
-juice
If, and only if, they will be able to sell these without incentives.
They made it look like the X5 and that's what they'll likely compare it to, which might mean prices will be optimistic. If so, you'll be right about incentives.
But 20/29 mpg and an non-HP-boosted H6 might mean they're taking a value angle (I hope).
-juice
I'm simply basing that on the fit and finish, comfort, and attention to details that I see in my OBXT. It is not bad, but it is hardly world class and certainly not up to what you find in an MDX, RX-330, or X5. So I'm saying Subaru will have a hard time swaying a large number of buyers from that market without another giant leap forward.
Given that Subaru just went through such an attempt at going upmarket with the 05s, I doubt they have another one in them, and they still have quite a few lessons to learn even on the 05s.
So I say, based on the info we have so far, that Subaru will not have the performance, quality and luxury to compete at the 37-40K price point with the big boys.
A great design could make up for some of that, but the pictures we've seen don't indicate that will be the case. I'd say a few people will love the design (as happened with the Aztec), and the car will be yet another niche vehicle. It will mostly appeal to existing Subaru owners who already trust the brand.
I'd love to be proven wrong here, but I don't see any indications that I will be (yet)! Hopefully Subaru is fooling us all and will come out with a winner in Detroit.
Sly
i think the x5 looks nice so there.
amazing most hate it but the two going to the show like it, hmmmmmm
Actually we were invited before the photos came out, check MTM.
X5 looks similar overall, but the front is too conservative. Note that BMW keeps face lifting it.
I find that rather funny.
Meanwhile, more radical designs like the RX sell better with no face lifts.
-juice
mpg sounds good but given weight and engine this car does not cut it for the full acceleration needs getting onto highway here ( uphill, curves before you pull out, cars doing 70mph ). i need that '05 legacy gt or fxt power.
btw i saw my first legacy gt sedan in black the other day. first time i ever said dayum when looking at a subaru.
a triazteca pole?
We're not in the market for another 7 passenger vehicle, so that might factor into some of my disklike.
-Brian
BMW has face lifted the X5 alot because its been around a LONG time. Typical Japanese vehicles run 5 model years with one face lift, so maybe thats your comparison point, but given the vehicles age, I dont think there have been that many.
~alpha
Bob
TWRX, loving his latest Subaru even if it is not a turbo.
Except it's odd on a large vehicle. It's not purely ugly like I feared, but it's gonna take some getting used to. Is this change really the right thing to do at the same time you're trying to upscale?
(1) The new look and going upscale are inexorably linked. Subaru believes that having their own unique look is essential if they are going to be successful as a premium brand, as every player in that segment has their own look. You'll never confuse a Volvo for a BMW or a Mercedes. Subaru wants that same type of visual distinction. I agree.
(2) This new look signals to everyone, this is not just a new Subaru, but it is a "new" way to think of Subaru, both as a brand and as a product.
Bob
That look can be as simple a a distinctive grill. Take Volvo's diagonal bar and BMW's double-kidney grill, they both have been used for decades and have been successfully integrated into wildly different car shapes. For example, Volvo has been using variations of that grill since the 140/240 days, through the boxy 740/960 models, and today's much shapelier S40/60/80.
But the secret is to have that design element well integrated into a coherent whole. This is where I think the B9 fails miserably. The grill just doesn't look like it belongs on that front-end.
Sly
I respectfully disagree. The front of the new B9 meshes with the rest of the car in the same way as do the (unique) front ends of Volvos, BMWs, et al. The only difference is that with BMW, Volvo, Jaguar, etc., is that you're used to those front ends. You've seen them for years. There's an established "comfort level" there; not so with the new B9.
As to "being used for decades," well, you gotta start somewhere...
Bob
yup everyone will think that if they can put that nose on a car, what else did they mess up.
However, I wasn't talking about the integration of the front-end with the rest of the car. I was talking about the integration of the grill with the rest of the nose. Glad it works for you, but it sure doesn't work for me! Now perhaps these pictures are misleading and I will have a different reaction when I see it in person. But as it stands now, I think that is one of the ugliest front ends on the market today!
It's really irrelevent though: I would not buy an underpowered $40K Subaru no matter how good it looks! And unless Autoweek is wrong, that is exactly what this car is!
Sly
And I again ask - why didn't they start with the Legacy/Outback? Why bring out a new corporate face when your sales leader is less than one year old?
Easy. There's less risk (for Subaru) with an all-new car than with one that's already established.
Look, Subaru knows there will be a lot of (initial) negative reaction to their new look—or "any" new look, for that matter, be it this one, or some other new look. Why risk losing Legacy/Outback buyers, which is their core market right now. It's far less risky for them to introduce this new look on a car (and market segment) they've never attempted before. It's just smart business, nothing else.
Bob
Before Subaru dives in to establish themselves with this new look, linked to upscale, I hope they know Suzuki is already using it!
Craig
Don't you think Subaru has weighed all the issues involved? Don't you think they have internally asked all the same questions everyone has been asking here? Don't you think they have wrestled with this decision to move upmarket, and what's involved, and all the risks entailed?
Anytime you change, there is risk involved. Don't you think Subaru knows this?
Bob
funny i dont seem to recall that reaction to nissans look. that suzuki pic is not bad, does not look like groucho marx.
didnt have a negative reaction to bmw or mercedes designs.
i still hate the cayenne look and i have seen that alot.
and oh god that nose of the mitsubishi is awful. so they now a full line up i cant stand to look at.
sorry subaru, if ya think in order to succeed ya have to come up with a 'look'.
Like it or not the Cayenne is Porsches biggest seller.
A lot of people hate the new-look Audi and VW, same with the big nose bulge on the Mercedes new sports cars—and do I have to even mention the Bangle-designed BMWs—which are selling quite well, BTW?
Bob
Exactly. Nobody notices them. You have just mentioned two of the most bland looking cars on the planet.
Bob
Bob
Sorry, I couldn't resist
Also, I personally thrive on change, and I tend to have positive reactions to new and ground breaking designs. I don't think this design is ground breaking though, just another minivan-like SUV, except this one has the ugly Groucho nose treatment. It tries to be original, but it fails in my book.
Sly
I still say, over time, the look will grow on you. You may never warm up to it completely, but I'd be surprised, if a year from now, you still feel as strongly about it as you do now.
Bob
Especially as compared to the awkward front end of the exterior, the interior of the vehicle (shown with Nav and light beige leather) is quite original, very stylish, and extremely beautiful in my opinion. Theres some resemblance to the interior of the new Infiniti M series, to my eyes, not a bad thing at all.
And, FWIW, the vehicle actually looks better in the C/D pic than the ones posted here. Still not a beaut, but as Bob said, it will likely grow on people. But how much?
-Joe
Happy New Year!