Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

isellhondas

Maybe the "Wayne" part went into the 60's?

It's just that I hadn't heard that term in many years.

For the money, SK Tools were probably the best tools out there. I haven't seen them offered for sale in years but the build the higher line wrenches for Sears.

I remember the green metal boxes they came in.

lemko

My Dad got his set of SK Wayne tools as a Christmas gift from my Mom in 1964.

isellhondas

Were better quality than Craftsman in most cases.

I remember in the mid-seventies they sold a 3/8th socket set that included shallow and deep sockets, a ratchet, a couple of extensions and a universal joint. This sold for 39.95. Very good value for the money.

The Sears sets used to include a alot of worthless items. They wold advertise a 129 piece tool set and 24 of these "pieces" would be hacksaw blades. Sears also used to include wrench and socket sizes nobody used much like 11/16th and 25/32nds. There used to be a term for these oddball sizes that also applied to a certain type of file!

210delray

Interesting...I don't know how old the tools are that I received from my FIL, just that he gave them to me in '77.

fintail

I wonder if a lot of that is east cost vs west coast, too. I don't recall any of the cars my dad had having structural rot issues...and he was very good about checking such things.

I remember seeing a late 60s Ford F series kicking around town ca. 1990 that had body rust to the point where the cab was almost entirely eaten away! I think the car lived out on the beach.

isellhondas

What's that?

andre1969

I wonder if a lot of that is east cost vs west coast, too. I don't recall any of the cars my dad had having structural rot issues...and he was very good about checking such things.

Yeah, I think where you live definitely has a bearing on how long the cars last. For instance, I was under the mistaken impression that GM pretty much licked their rust issues starting with the redesigned 1977 big cars, and then with every new design thereafter...until I went to visit some friends in Michigan!

Actually, one thing I remembered about Michigan was that your typical 15 year old car actually looked better than your typical 4-5 year old car...for the simple fact that any 15 year old car that was still around had been repainted at least once, whereas the 4-5 year old car was just to the point it was ready for its first repaint and bondo-job.

My ex-wife's father lives out in Washington, in a little town called Rainier. We went out there on our honeymoon, and I was amazed at all the old cars that were still around. Her father had three old Ford pickups, the newest being a '78 or so (the style with the somewhat recessed round headlights with blackout trim that gave it an aggressive look) and the oldest being a late 60's model. This was 1995 when we went out. None of the trucks had any rust on them, other than in areas where the paint was scratched down to the sheetmetal. He hauled a lot of firewood, so his trucks saw some abuse, too.

Out here on the east coast, if you can find an area where they don't use a lot of salt on the roads, you'll still see plenty of older cars in fairly good shape. I bought my '79 NYer in a town in West VA, about 155 miles west of here. I remember driving out to look at it, and was amazed at all the old cars. It was kinda like a time warp! Now I'd think the winters would be worse out in the hills, but I don't think they use as much salt out there. And if you go out on Maryland's Eastern Shore, and the more remote areas of Delaware, there seem to be a lot more older cars. Not necessarily pristine older cars, but still lest rusty.

stevedebi

"Re: Rust ?? [isellhondas]"

Ditto. Here in LA the cars seem to last and last and last (except for those right near the beach). I imagine it is difficult for those in the Northeast to grasp.

isellhondas

I grew up in a beach town in L.A...San Pedro and cars didn't rust except for maybe some chrome pitting.

fintail

Sounds right...

When I was in school I had a prof from NJ who repeatedly said the thing he noticed most about the northwest was how old the cars were.

Eastern WA is even better, although I think the good stuff has mainly been picked over by now. I have relatives there, and when I visit I am always impressed at all the clean looking 60s metal still around.

explorerx4

the guy who wrote the 250k check was a competing bidder in the charity auction.
there is only 1 supersnake left, the other was destroyed along with the driver, according to what i recall hearing from the announcers. 5 million is still a lot of money, no matter what!
another thing, i think the internet/phone bidders pay a 12% buyers premium. i can see why. at one point, they had a phone vs. internet bidder only. very boring.

explorerx4

keep the car in a garage and don't drive it in the winter.
it works here in the northeast too and plenty of people do it!

qbrozen

yes, the other one was built for Bill Cosby who sold it pretty quickly, according to an old comedy bit of his, because he was scared to death of it.

I heard the announcer say that man was killed driving it. But what he didn't say is if the car was rebuilt. I mean, cars worth far less money have been brought back from the grave.

I'm really surprised Shelby sold that car. If it truly is the only one in existence, than I'm even MORE surprised.

Mr_Shiftright

If there's a dime-sized piece of that wreck still left, and a VIN plate, you can be SURE it will re-appear. Bet on it.

lemko

Montgomery County Man Pleads Guilty in Car Fraud:

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/16522084.htm

Mr_Shiftright

Gee lemko, shades of 1989! Whenever a market gets overheated, we'll be seeing more and more of that kind of thing. Thanks for the post.

On a similar note===>

This is interesting reading right now:

http://www.sportscarmarket.com/articles/archives/978

fintail

I feel like I am looking at Ferraris in 1988...the collapse will just take longer.

andre1969

Those kinds of prices make me glad my tastes run towards cheaper cars! I would never buy a car that I'd be too afraid to drive, and I know I'd be afraid to drive a $50-$100K antique!

au1994

Great article. I am on record as saying I cannot stand the "recreation" cars. I see no value in putting the money into creating the car and do not understand why they command such a high dollar. I will have to disagree about the continuation cars. They are not trying to be anything but a new version of an old classic. They aren't masquerading as are rare and valuable classic.

My opinion, next year you will continue to see the big boulevard cruisers from the late 50's do well and some of the lesser known muscle cars will pull some strong numbers like the 455 T/A's and Cougar Eliminators and Cyclones.

fintail

Same here. I would never "invest" in a car anyway, but I too am glad I can find endless fun old cars for under 10K.

qbrozen

some of the lesser known muscle cars will pull some strong numbers like the 455 T/A's and Cougar Eliminators and Cyclones.

Oh definitely. I mean, that's already happening outside of BJ ... but I think via BJ's influence.

I think we'll also see continued rising in prices of generic 6-cylinder models.

I also think hotrods/ratrods will drive more interest since musclecars are unobtainable by most folks.

by the way ... just what the heck is a ratrod? Is that as in a big block? And, if so, why aren't the others called mouserods? and can a ratrod be a hotrod but not vice versa?

edit: urban dictionary seems to think a ratrod is one that is put together from various junkyard parts and is basically a rust ridden heap. somehow i don't think that's right as i'm pretty darned sure i've seen cars called "ratrods" that were NOT rusted heaps.

fintail

A rat rod is a modified car that isn't worth finishing nicely, so they throw a coat of black primer on it and call it a day. At least that seems to be how it works around here.

andre1969

Yeah, that's what I always took "rat rod" to mean. There was also a chevy big-block that was referred to as the "Rat" motor. Can't remember if it was the 396/402, 427, 454 or what. I forget why it got the "rat" name, though.

qbrozen

I guess that is correct

qbrozen

i thought "rat" was any big block? while mouse was the small blocks?

Mr_Shiftright

Well "continuation" cars aren't quite as innocent as that. I think Shelby really REALLY demeaned himself by getting into this "continuation" business. Call it 'reputation inflation'....like printing money.

boomchek

I like ratrods for that very reason, that you can drive it and bang it up or scratch it and it won't be a big deal.

That's another car to own on my list.

british_rover

Tulsa time capsle.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't think it's gonna look so good.

andre1969

Wow, I've been following that story since I first heard about it back in 11th grade! That was 20 years ago...seemed so far in the future back then! IIRC, they buried the thing with a full tank of gas.

I dunno how Tulsa's weather is, but if it's anything like Oklahoma City, they probably could've just put it under a tarp in somebody's back yard, and it would still be rust-free. That might've been better for it than sealing it underground.

british_rover

Oh didn't know they left a full tank of gas in it.

Can you say VARNISH...

If they had pulled all of the fluids out and then put the crypt under a vacum it might have been ok.

Mr_Shiftright

If it's just a 4-door 6 cylinder Belvedere stripper, they'd best leave it buried.

andre1969

Nah, "Forward Look" Mopars are pretty hot among the Mopar crowd...somebody would want to snatch it up if it's not too far gone. IIRC, it was a Belevedere hardtop coupe, and that was the highest trim level (unless you count the Fury), comparable to a Bel Air or Fairlane 500, so it's probably pretty nicely equipped. Doubtful that it was a 6-cyl. Probably a 277 or 301 V-8.

Mr_Shiftright

Nobody would restore a 4-door 6 cylinder car though. That'd be darn near nuts. (As well as a waste of time and money).

Best to leave it "as is" anyway and just tell the story as you tow it from place to place, no matter what model it is. People LOVE great stories!

Even if it were a deluxe convertible model in the flashiest colors and with every option, it wouldn't be worth restoring---but at least restoring it would be a somewhat rational act even though you'd lose some money. At least you'd end up with a pretty snappy car.

I mean, if it were a 4-door 6 lying rusted in a wrecking yard, I don't think people would be much interested except for parts. That's a pretty homely basic car in stripper trim. Maybe even a flathead??

andre1969

Oh yeah, if it's totally clapped out nobody would touch it. But if it was still in pretty solid shape, somebody would snatch it up. And yeah, I think the Plymouth-6 was still a flathead. IIRC it was a 232 CID unit with something like 138 hp. I don't think Mopar really got semi-up-to-date in 6-cyl engines until the 170/225 CID slant six of 1960.

What year did Ford finally start building OHV 6-cylinders? I know they had that little Falcon 144/170 unit for 1960, but didn't the big cars hang onto some archaic 6-cyl until 1965?

seminole_kev

I know the Mustang in the 60's had various displacements of the OHV inline six. 200 CI in 1966. Was it maybe 180 CI before that? Can't remember.

au1994

170 cu in

andre1969

Yeah, I think 200 CID was the ultimate enlargement of the old 144/170 CID. Ford had a big-car OHV 6-cyl of 240 CID that came out in 1965, and was supposed to be fully up-to-date and very rugged. At some point it got enlarged to a 250 CID, but through much of the 70's, Ford's full-size and intermediate cars were too big for it, so they had standard V-8 power and the 250 mainly ended up in the Granada, IIRC. There was also a 300 CID version of it used in trucks, up until fairly recently, when a 4.2 V-6 finally took over around 1997 I guess.

I think Chevy's "Blue Flame" 6-cyl was the first fairly modern OHV 6-cyl, but it was a heavy beast. Chevy's smallblock V-8, no lightweight itself, was actually lighter! Chevy did finally develop a smaller, lightweight OHV 6 for the Chevy II/Nova. I think it started off as a 194 CID, with a 153 4-cyl version available, and then it eventually got a 230 CID enlargement that was used in big cars, and that finally became the 250.

isellhondas

I don't think so? As I remember, they were all 200's in the Mustangs. The very early V-8's were 260's.

The real Mustang people hate it when people refer to these as 1964 1/2's.

qbrozen

I think the $100 savings account will be worth more after 50 years. Maybe that was the experiment? To see what would be worth more after digging them up 50 years later?

they mention what the car is on TOP of ... but not what is on the sides or top of the car.

qbrozen

The real Mustang people hate it when people refer to these as 1964 1/2's.

I'm not even a Mustang person and I hate it.

au1994

I believe in the 64 1/2 the 170 was the 6. It went away, as did the 260 V-8, in the 65 model year.

andre1969

So the 1964.5 Mustang had the 200 CID as well? I thought it only had the 170, or the 260 V-8 as an option?

au1994

I think the choice's were the 170 in line 6, the 260 V-8 2bbl, and a 2 & 4 bbl version of the 289 V-8.

So many people opted for the 289, it did not make sense to have the 260 and the 200 was just a natural improvement over the 170.

Mr_Shiftright

You're right...if it's a 6 cylinder car it's probably worth $500 at best. And if it's totally restored, maybe $5,000 dollars.

So yeah, 50 years of storage and $50,000 to fix it up for a net loss of $45,000.

Good deal.

andre1969

about 2 miles from where I live, but its ultimate fate wasn't nearly so happy. There used to be a brick factory in that location, and as a little kid riding by, off in the distance at the edge of a clearing, partly behind the building, I could see an old blue and white car with a schoolbus yellow vehicle sitting on top of it, amidst a pile of other rubble.

I think I was about 14 or 15 when I finally rode my bike back there to go exploring. Turns out the car was a '57 Plymouth hardtop. Most likely a Belvedere, but it was pretty shot. The schoolbus looking vehicle was some old 40's or 50's semi truck sitting partly on top of it, crushing it down. The building had been torn down, but this pile was still there.

Sometime, around 1997 or so, they started clearing that area to build houses. They had been working the general area since 1984, but finally got around to this particular spot. I went back there to find a fairly smoothed out tract of land, but you could see bits and pieces of blue Plymouth sticking up out of the ground here and there.

I wouldn't mind getting a '57-58 Mopar 4-door hardtop one day, but I imagine they'd be hard to find. More prone to rust and leaks than the regular sedans, built in smaller numbers, and not really worth much more than a 4-door sedan.

seminole_kev

I do remember that early Mustangs did come with the smaller 170 (thanks for above for remembering the correct displacement of the smaller one). Shortly thereafter, the 200 CI displacement version replaced it.

isellhondas

I am no longer a "Mustang guy" but..THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 1964 1/2 MUSTANG. These are 1965's. Early 1965's.

I'm not 100% sure but pretty sure they never stuck any 170's into Mustangs. I guess it's possible but I don't think so.

And I don't think 289's were available when they were using 260's. The 289's were 200 H.P. 225 with the 4bbl and the High Performance 289's had 271 H.P.

The H.P. ones would REALLY move!

explorerx4

i think it would be funny if they opened up the capsule and the car was gone. :surprise:

jlflemmons

200CI I6, 1bbl carb, three speed stick and 1st was not synchronized. For all the romance surrounding these cars, they were crap. Rusted like they had been soaked in salt, had brakes from a small Falcon, and the rear suspension was too weak for even the lightweight tail that they had.

Or as I tell folks, "I owned a Ford Mustang. That's how I learned to work on cars."