Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Actually mechanically-speaking they are both probably contempories. :P
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "Actually mechanically-speaking they are both probably contempories."

    Think about that for a moment, considering the 12 Cylinder water cooled engine of the (airplane) Mustang.

    Man, imagine that thing in a 1965 (car) mustang! :surprise:

    'course, they would have had to increase the gas tank size a bit. But think of the power...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    There's a pillarless 4-door in '56 isn't there, for Buick?

    Buick and Olds were actually pioneers of the 4-door hardtop, offering them for sale in 1955. Only the B-body offered them initially, so in the Buick line only the Special/Century offered it. For 1956, just about everybody under the sun was offering 4-door hardtops, so the C-body Super/Roadmaster got them as well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They look better than the regular 4 door sedans but alas they rattled like hell and weren't very popular.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    that this mastodon of a '77 Toronado is as far away as it is. If it was close by, I'd actually be tempted by it!

    I notice that the description says it has a towing package. Would a big FWD monster like this be good at towing? IIRC, you could equip a big '76 GM RWD car to tow up to 7,000 pounds, and I think even the pre-downsized midsizers could do 4-5K, but I just can't picture something like this being used to tow a trailer.

    This 1977 Supreme coupe is kinda nice too, if nothing else for the floor shift/console and the T-tops. I wonder which V-8 it has? It has dual exhaust, so I'd hope it's a 350 or 403, and not the tiny 260. I guess on a 260, a dual exhaust would do more harm than good?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,088
    They look better than the regular 4 door sedans but alas they rattled like hell and weren't very popular.

    I think the 1955 models actually came out at mid-year, which would explain their low sales that year. However, 4-door hardtops took off the next year, and within a few years, they were often outselling their pillared counterparts. 4-door hardtops were viewed as more of a luxury item.

    I wonder if GM went through the effort to come up with a unique roofline for their 4-door hardtops in 1955? When Chrysler came out with them for '56, all they did was take the existing 4-door sedan and remove the b-pillar and frames around the windows, with beefing up here and there. This created a bit of a problem though, since the back door windows on the sedan had a roll-down section and a flip-out vent window. If they made it one big window, it would be too big to roll down into the door. So instead they made it a 2-piece job, where the main window rolled down and the trailing quarter window pivoted down with it. It's really neat to see in action, but it must have been horrible for leaks and rattles.

    For 1957, I think Chrysler just used the roof from the 2-door hardtops, which eliminated the extra-long roofline. It also made the 4-door hardtops more cramped inside, compared to the pillared 4-doors.

    I have a feeling that the GM might have been a bit of a hash-job too, maybe trying to mate the hardtop coupe roofline onto a 4-door car.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Sure it could. GM used the Toronado drivetrain in this thing.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    The gobs of open interior room and pleasantly light weight were the Citation's two virtues. Unfortunately, those were the ONLY two things about the Citation that didn't suck eggs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably the base 427 with "only" 335 HP...not such a big deal. He'll need 300+ horses to move that barge.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Probably look something like this...

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    All pictures from here.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,883
    hey! you made me hurt myself from laughing so hard!
    i'm laughing at the comment, not the cars. i need the red cross guy. :sick:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,883
    a '69 caprice with a 427 sounds interesting. hood and trunk fit, plus interior condition don't look so good.
    look how much people are over paying for 69 camaros and chevelles. could be pulled up in value by that.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    There's a whole range of 427 engines however and the base engine is really not a big deal. The car is about double what it's worth, sad to say. If that were a 427/425HP hi compression engine in there (fat chance) that car would have been sold and chopped up already.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,883
    maybe i watched too much weird stuff going through scottsdale last week. :)
    i borrowed 'fins link and posted in on 'big chevies.. big fords'.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    I hope I'm not smoking the crack pipe or I'm not out to lunch here :blush::blush:

    Here's my parent's Mercedes 300D I posted on Craigslist.

    I tried to tell them they should be asking a tiny bit less, but hey, it's their car, and they're set on that.

    I had two calls within five minutes of posting it so hopefully they can get rid of it soon.

    MB 300D

    And Mr. Shifty, I hope you know I'm posting this as an example, and not to try and sell my stuff here :) Thanks

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    Oh, it's even a nice color. It's pretty. Is the interior really leather, or tex?

    Someone will save it, it just looks too good. If it was cheaper I would pass it along to the MB guy I know who isn't far from the border...but he can be cheap, and I think that's too rich for his blood. Post any updates, I will shoot him an email Monday if it's still available.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Thanks, suprisingly I had 4 calls on it tonight (3 within 15 minutes of posting it), and one just now.

    I can't tell whether the interior is MB Tex or leather, but I'm pretty sure it's leather as this car is fully loaded with even a/c (doesn't work though).

    I have more pics on my carspace here as well under "my family's cars"

    My mom is really sad to see it go but oh well what can you do?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No problem...you're "family" here!

    I think you'll sell it pretty soon...in a way it's the best possible scenario for buying an old Benz and one I often recommend..which is, if you are going to invest money in one of these cars, do it with a car that is is good cosmetic condition inside and out.

    A used engine would be the way to go here or rebuilding the old one if the crankshaft is still good.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    If I had it I would be patient and seek out a MB specialist with a turbo (300D) engine. Good W123s are hard to find anymore. You should see the prices for them in European magazines!

    Is the upholstery pleated, or is it a grained/woven pattern in the inserts? The woven looking stuff is tex, plain pleated seats are leather.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah but you are looking at Euro prices against a weak dollar. When you see a European price, you can deduct at least 20% --25% for US dollar equivalency. Also, diesel fuel prices there are considerably less than gasoline prices (in most of Europe) making them attractive for economy reasons.

    Where I live, diesel is .40 cents MORE than premium, which makes the "economical" argument pointless for owning a diesel.

    Still the simplicity (relatively speaking) and comfort of a 300 turbo diesel W123 are hard to beat in the under $5,000 market. More than that, you find used cars that are too tempting to pass up vis a vis an old diesel.

    I just saw a GORGEOUS BMW 635csi coupe sell for $6,500, and there is no comparison in performance or style with a W123, and you get the same German quality.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Thanks Shifty. ;)

    A couple of the callers (out of the 8 so far that are going to look at it tommorow) said they have old 300SD models with bad body but good engine.

    It would be an ideal swap as they are the same motors iirc.

    With the amount of interest I'm thinking we should have been asking $500 more, but then again, why push it.

    From other ads I have seen, you can probably buy one in running condition for about $2000 to $2500, however I bet many of them look quite different in real life than in the photos.

    I had two ads placed, one in buy and sell in (wrecking autos section), without a picture, and the other one on criagslist. I guess pictures are worth a 1000 words.

    As for the interior, the seats are the grained type, so I guess it is MB Tex.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    Yeah I know the currency is off...but even with the Euro at par, it can be crazy over there. I see genuinely mint 126s and fintails from countless sellers with prices well over 10K Euro, the best 126s carrying prices twice that. I can understand a goofy seller with an inflated price, but everyone wants big money for them. A lot of very mint very low mileage cars seem to have survived there too, perhaps better than what is usually found here. Prices here are a little more defendable.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    Unless there was an upholstery texture I am unaware of. That's how it works in fintails anyway.

    8 lookers? Wow. Of course, from what I hear about CL, that means 3 will show up.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    That's pretty much the ratio of any ad you put in. At least there is a good chance it will be sold tommorow.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well for one thing in most parts of Europe (Germany certainly) they don't allow you to drive the incredible piles of junk you can drive here in America. Rusted or badly dented cars are simply not allowed on the road. So what you are seeing is pretty much cream of the crop survivor cars, or restored cars. They get higher prices than US equivalents, deservedly, because they have passed rigorous inspections that 95% of all W123s in America would probably fail for one reason or another.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    Yeah, that's true...I am sure their best is better than our best.

    I am amazed at the mint early W126s that have survived over there...old people cars no doubt.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well to keep them on the road you have to keep them in top shape. Think of those pristine W126 as the result of government oppression! :P
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,754
    Oh, it's even a nice color. It's pretty.

    You know, usually I think those "mild" colors are rather bland, but it does work very well on those MBs. A real shame that such a well-maintained car would fall victim to an engine failure, but so it goes.

    I am almost surprised that your parents would be so attached to it already if they have only owned it since last year!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    Ha, I wouldn't complain if we had that kind of oppression.

    I just read a few pages in a Dutch classifieds book...in the span of those few pages, from different sellers, I saw 2 126 sedans at 10000+ € and a 7500 € fintail. Nutty
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Seems like a good buy. Cheap entry into the local old car circuit and you can fix it with a Swiss Army knife.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,672
    I kinda like it. ALso an easy car to upgrade with some performance (V8, 4 speed, etc), right? It pretty much is a Mustang underneath, so a nice modest 289 upgrade..

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well, not exactly a bolt-in job in an afternoon, but certainly do-able. There will be some cutting and welding and you'll have to upgrade brakes and suspension.
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    Hi Guys,
    I found this Mercedes 6.9 locally it is the worse 6.9 I have seen to date. The body is straight, the paint is peeling off, there are a few rust spots about the size of quarters around the rear window and the windshield. I think there may be some floorboard rust as well because I saw the base of one of the front seats was rusty but I didn't check it out. It could be this car was flooded who knows. The seller has a used car lot with some interesting cars but they all look like they belong in a junkyard. This car appears to have been left outside for a long time and has extensive sun damage. The rear seat leather is torn, the headrests are dried out and sun bleached. It appears to be 95+ % complete and the engine runs although it sounds like the motor mounts need replacing because when it started you could hear the fan making contact with the radiator. It stopped after warming up a little. After warm up with the choke off (or whatever Bosch used) the engine ran rough.
    The hydraulic suspension was fully up and I could not lower it. I tried to get the suspension to go or down using the knob on the dash but it didn't do anything.
    The seller is asking $2500 OBO is this car worth purchasing at any price or is FREE too much?
    I look forward to your comments.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    So after 12 calls in total within a day. The first guy that came yesterday bougt it. He tried to bargain with my dad but after the response to the ad my dad didn't want to drop the price one bit. :D

    I just hope this guy has a motor to shoe in there and isn't palnning on rebuilding this one as it's going to cost arm and a leg.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    both arms, both legs. Maybe he's a spider...."I can't do 8 things at once.....oh, yes I can".
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    Free sounds about right...sounds like minor trim might be the only parts worth saving...It would cost 40K to get that thing up to pristine, and a pristine 6.9 can likely be had for maybe 15K tops.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,594
    Cool, hopefully it went to a good home.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    All of that Buick talk is going to subject all of you to another of my " When I was in high school" stories.

    I grew up (?)in a Chevy town. We were all taught to hate Fords and we didn't even recognize Mopars.

    This kid I knew saved his money for the used Chevy he knew he would someday own.

    As I recall, some old lady that was related to him in some way decided to give up driving and basically gave (I think) him her 1955 Buick. And, what a Buick it was!

    I believe it had under 40,000 miles. It had to be the oddest model they could have produced that year. It was a Century 2 door post model with a three speed on the colume.

    We all got quite a laugh out of this grandma car until we watched it SMOKE a couple of pretty fast Chevies!

    Crap, that Buick was a lot faster than anyone would have expected. For those who might not know, the Century was the lightweight Special model with the Roadmaster engine.

    I would love to have that car today!
  • 210delray210delray Member Posts: 4,721
    Wasn't this same model used by the Calif. Hwy Patrol, but with an automatic of course? There's one in the Petersen Automotive Museum in L.A. But it may have been a Special.

    Also as I recall from way, way back Broderick Crawford drove one in the TV series "Highway Patrol."
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    "OKAY YOU PUNKS...OUDDA DA CAR!" b. crawford
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Did it have the aluminium V8?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,144
    Nope, those were early '60s. Buick's V8s were called 'nailheads' in mid '50s, so says Wikipedia...my dad put one in a '51 Packard, but that's another story...
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I remember the nailhead V8s. I just couldn't remember when they started using the aluminium fireball V8.

    Thought it might have been later 50's.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    The aluminum V8's were used only in Buick Specials from 1961-1963. My parents bought a 1962 Special new that later became mine.

    They were 215 cubic inch engines that really weren't very good. I never had trouble with mine but they were prone to overheating. My little Buick could walk away from a 283 Impala without any problem.

    Because of problems, Buick went back to conventional iron engines in 1964.

    Years later, British Leyland bought these engines from Buick and started putting them in some of the cars they produced.

    I couldn't believe my eyes when, later I saw Land Rover sticking these engines in Discos and even the big Land Rovers! They picked up on a Buick name from the 40's and called them "Fireballs". What a joke!

    1961 engines that weren't good enough for Buick, being installed in expensive Land Rovers, for YEARS!!
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Land Rover first used that V8 in the 1970 Range Rover and it was 3.5 liters or 215 Cubic inches.

    Buick discontinued it more because of how troublesome and expensive the all aluminium engine was. They did use the same architecture to build an iron V6 motor that is still used by GM today.

    The 3800 V6 series III is a evolution of that old buick design.

    That buick V8 becamse the small block chevy of the UK and was used in so many different vehicles.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    They finally developed it enough to make a decent engine out of it, but it wasn't easy. The Buick engine is often blamed for the mayhem in the engine compartment of the Triumph Stag, but that was a totally British creation, (different engine) so don't blame us for that one.

    I always liked how you started up a '55 Buick...by pressing down on the gas pedal to hit the starter switch!

    I think a '55 coupe with a GNX turbo in it would be just about right.
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