Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Yeah, it's not a bad looking tank, although the 65s and 66s carried the look better IMO.

I wanted to put hubcaps like those on my 66, but never got around to it. I think that car might be worth 6-7K.

british_rover

Couple of mercs for you...

Don't see Benz Diesel Coupes that often but price seems high...

Seems like a neat old tank. For the money can you go wrong?

Junk or is the little bit of history worth it?

I think if there is any documentation with that old Ford it might be kind of cool. Not sure if the car is salvagable.

boomchek

I'd take the Ford and make it into a rat rod. Pop a motor/tranny in there, redo the brakes, and pop a couple cushions in there as seats..... :shades: :shades: :shades:

fintail

I can see someone going a little illogical over that 123. It looks pretty decent and as the seller says, is a great color combo for those cars, not often seen. It's expensive, but someone will justify it for themselves, diesel people like their cars.

The 126 is kind of in a sad state of neglect, but as a Euro it is cool. Curiosity value if anything. Dunno about those wheels though.

british_rover

I like the rat rod idea as well. Another thing would be to do a period correct rod with old school style and parts.

Fintail what do you think of this

I have never heard of this model before did he just stick a bunch of AMG parts on a C280?

boomchek

Looks like he just has the AMG rims on it, lowering springs, and maybe a body kit. AMGs came with two tone perforated leather seats and steering wheel iirc.

Fintail is the AMG expert here.

High mileage but not bad if it's cheap enough (under $5k), and I like those wheels.

texases

But...why, if any monkey could fix the plugs, didn't he get it done, and avoid all the 'thief cut the wires, instruments don't work, etc.....' - would be worth big $$ to eliminate the doubt.

texases

Any problem getting parts for the grey market ones? Would the antifreeze in the oil lead to big$$? But yes, with the euro bumpers looks much better than US version.

fintail

It's a hodgepodge of C36 and other bits on a normal C280 yeah. Not factory done, but not horrible looking, unique. I see no interior mods, but it does appear to have a factory phone, which is odd on non-AMG C-class.

fintail

Parts availablity should be fine, if you have the part #s I am pretty sure your local dealer can even order parts...but I don't know about the mechanicals. That car would be a huge risk. The bumpers and lights look great...that's how the car is supposed to look, without DOT-sanctioned park benches stuck to each end.

jlflemmons

Oh, yeah. Had one in my folks 1960 Olds Super 88. Talk about a sled! On a good day, no wind, flat land, that sucker MIGHT make 10MPG on the highway. But man, could that thing cruise ...

Mr_Shiftright

Water in the oil on an '85 Benz V8? Wrecking yard, definitely. Don't even bother.

Diesel coupe looks nice, price is silly. $4,000 all day long. they're clumsy looking cars and not nearly as useful or comfortable as the 4-doors.

Ford Rat Rod--definitely worth restoring. A well-done 30s rod in steel with original parts is worth some money.

lemko

...have you heard of a car called the S320? I passed by this little repair shop on Oxford Avenue and saw this car. Looked like a 1992-1999 generation S-Class. Didn't stare too much at the car as its grim-looking owner appeared to be one of NE Philly's notorious Russian mafiosi. Is this a gray market car?

seminole_kev

I'm not Fintail, but I could have sworn that there was a S with the 320 engine offered during that time frame. Perhaps I'm confusing the displacement with a different model though.

andre1969

Yeah, it's not a bad looking tank, although the 65s and 66s carried the look better IMO.

Yeah, I like the '65-66 big Fords better, too. The '67 is nice, but I just like the crisper, more angular style of the '65-66. Come to think of it, I'm the same way with the big Mopars and GM cars. Seems like they all got more rounded and plump for '67.

I had a '67 Newport, but didn't really care for it. IMO it looked kinda like a wanna-be Mercury or Lincoln up front, and had an odd Barracuda-ish roofline with rear quarter windows that kicked up. I think that '66 300 hardtop is a much better looking car.

qbrozen

Yup. I've seen quite a few S320s. The poor-man's S-class, I suppose.

qbrozen

i could have sworn you were in Cali, Isell ... I'm not sure why, though.

qbrozen

Put me down as another vote for that 300. That's a nice looking ride.

isellhondas

I was born and raised in San Pedro, CA. Moved from Rancho Palos Verdes to the Seattle area 20 years ago.

qbrozen

well, at least there is a connection to Cali there. Maybe that's what stuck in my head.

isellhondas

I agree. Instead of making excuses and telling us how easy it is to fix, FIX IT before running the ad!

Of course, I get this too...

" Oh, it's probably just a fuse or loose wire"

" Oh, that Check Engine light just needs to be "reset".

" Oh, the A/C probably needs some freon"

" I think it just needs a tune up"

" I must have got some bad gas"

" It's been sitting and it just needs to be driven"

" But those are ALL freeway miles."

Yeah, right!

texases

My favorite: "90% restored"

fintail

Yep, S320 was the lowline W140 from 1994 (I think)-99. It existed in SWB and LWB versions. The name still exists for diesel versions, and existed for the W220 in Europe.

fintail

Yeah, the Galaxie's ompetitor, the Impala, was much better looking in 65-66 than 67 as well. They both got a swoopy plumpness to it, which while not completely awful, isn't clean.

210delray

Agree; back in the day, cars had to change appearance every year. So the first year of the design is usually the best/cleanest, and the second year might be just a minor facelift. But once you get into the third or fourth years, the look tends to get frumpy or cluttered.

Best examples: Olds Toronado and Buick Riviera, 1966 through '70.
Best exception to the rule: Ford Fairlane/Galaxie: 1957-59.

andre1969

Best exception to the rule: Ford Fairlane/Galaxie: 1957-59.

I always thought Ford got a lot of mileage out of that '57-59 platform. It looked different enough each of the three years that it served its purpose as well as Chevy, which was a totally different car each of those three years.

I never cared for the '57 Ford, mainly because of that bug-eyed front-end, but I like the '58 and '59.

isellhondas

That was a good example.

The 1969 Rivieras were beautiful cars but in 1970, it's like they decided to see how ugly they could make them.

andre1969

I think the biggest problem with the 1970 Riviera is that it ended up looking too much like a porked-up Skylark. And for some reason, it seems like that year they had a fetish for fender skirts, which was a stark contrast to the previous models, which had large rear wheel openings. And even without the skirts, the '70 still had a low-cut rear wheel opening.

in general, I think the Eldo and Toro went downhill for '71 (although I do have a fondness for the '71-78 Toros), but I think the '71 Riv was actually an improvement! Well, over the 70 at least, but not the gorgeous '66-69's.

I think they mucked up the 1970 Eldo and Toro a bit as well compared to the previous models, but not near as much as they did with the Riviera!

I wonder if the 1970 models were mucked up on purpose, to get the market prepared for the pimpy styles that would soon become all the rage as the 70's progressed?

ryan77300d

A good friend of mine is buying a 1971 BMW 2002; he just won't consider anything else, this IS the car he'll buy. The owner is apparently "moving over seas for 8 months", and is leaving on sunday.

My friend has asked that I come along tomorrow, when he gets to look at the car for the first time. After going through emails and phone calls with the owner, the car sounds to have rust on all the problem areas (which I've narrowed down to drain holes, trunk, rear shock towers etc.)

Asking price is $1200 Canadian.

We're on for quite a ride, aren't we?

I hear the rear shock towers are VERY difficult to repair/"get right". Has anyone got any experience? Or just general quirks in restoring these cars? Any info in general?

Thanks very much in advance, any tips on restoring monoque bodied cars in general would be greatly appreciated!

-Ryan

Mr_Shiftright

Well there's a lot to talk about regarding these cars but it would be good to know how bad the strut towers are. If they are rotted out, he can save the trip to the garage and just bring the car right to the wrecking yard.

If they need some repair but still have integrity....geez...you'd almost want to strip the car down and dip the body chemically before you go any further or if that sounds too scary you should think about getting a good rear clip or partical clip and welding in those sections you need.

I'm not sure what type of repair panels you can buy for these cars--that's where you need to hit the BMW club forums and boards.

Anyway, if you see severe perforation of the rear suspension anchoring points, just walk away and save your friend some misery. Or if you see long horizontal cracks in the shock towers, that will all need to be replaced, at great expense I might add.

other rust areas include the floor pan under the pedal box, the outer rocker panels, the front fenders at the turn signal and at the door gap. Also the outer wheel wells like to rust. Check also the bottom of the spare tire well and the lip that supports the gas tank (also right there). The lower portion of the trunk lid also often hides rust.

If the engine clatters when it runs, you have worn rocker arms and rocker arm shafts, a common problem. Basic engine and head are sturdy. The butterfly shafts on the Solex carb wears easily, creating a weird air-fuel mixture and erratic idle.

On the interior, the stuffing used in the seats collapses. Window regulators can wear, making it hard to roll them up and down. Also the cables for the heater/defrost stretch out. Dome lights like to break, and exterior door locks, if hard to turn, need replacement.

Transmission--look for wear in 2nd gear synchromesh, which will "crunch" when going into second. Early 2002s have u-joints in the rear axles, which are weak joints, and later ones have CV joints which are good. So you might look and see which you have. It's worth looking because if you have the weak ones, and one of them breaks, the hub will collapse and the car might flip over.

Electrical--the heater blower motor fails a lot. Replacement is a b*tch, as the console and heater box will have to come out. Fuse box connectors (the brass ones) corrode easily. Alternators are only 45 amps so don't expect bright headlights.

Some prices:

master cylinder $139
Carpet set $235
Front fender $229
Grille, center section $95
Radiator $559
Rear quarter panel $895
rocker panel $79
seat upholster kit $325
starter motor $116
Brake calipers, each $399
Door handle with keys each $73

They made 320,000 of these suckers, so if your friend wants to keep looking, there are plenty of these cars around.

isellhondas

Every older Mercedes I have ever sat in just seems to have the most uncomfortable seats! It's like they have no padding or something. They look good until I sit down.

What's up?

Mr_Shiftright

It's that horsehair stuffing they use, or whatever it is---it just collapses and the seats become rock-hard. The only solution is to slip off the upholstery and add fitted foam.

Also have you ever noticed how so many German cars from the 70s and 80s smell bad? What IS that? It smells vaguely like burned electrical wiring....oh, knowing German cars maybe that's what it IS--LOL!

Just kidding--I think it must be the de-gaussing of some of the upholstery materials they use.

You know the Old Rule of Used German Cars applies today more than ever:

When you first see it, if you say "WOW, this car is in great shape!" -- then think about buying it.

And if you first see it and you say "Hey maybe I can fix that!" -- run away unless you are really spoiling for a five year restoration to pass the time on your estate during your retirement.

fintail

Laminated straw, in my fintail anyway. I just call it 'hay', and hope a horse never breaks into the car.

They do indeed get worse with age. 60s cars seem to hold up OK, but the 70s models in particular seem to age poorly. Every 116 I see seems to have some kind of seat issue.

These seats were designed for larger people too, IMO...so someone small and skinny might find them too hard.

fintail

Most expensive 924

isellhondas

Sorry...but...

Back when I was in high school, we would sometimes drive our old Chevys down to Tijuana to have interiors installed.

For around 100.00, at that time, you could get "Tuck and Roll" interiors including door panels, headliners etc.

They actually would do a pretty good job especially if you watched. Three hours later you were on your way.

But, if you weren't watching, some of those places would used horse #hit instead of foam as padding!

It didn't stink, but later, if the seat got a small tear, all of this "powder" would come out!

qbrozen

ok... mental note: never buy a chevy with custom interior from within 300 miles of Tijuana.

michaellno

The movie "Losin' It", starring Tom Cruise and Shelley Long (circa 1983) deals with that issue as well.

One of the characters is in Tijuana specifically for that purpose and, in fact, mentions the "bait and switch" with the seat stuffing materials.

I had no idea that it was something that actually took place.

Craig, thanks for that fact.

lilengineerboy

I remember when I was little going down there (TJ) with a friend and his dad to get a car painted as well. Mexico isn't nearly as restrictive as California with respect to the type of paint and the method of application. Some of those guys were actually artists and the guy who ran the shop lived in San Diego.

andre1969

was this car, which was for sale at the Hershey PA swap meet last fall:


I really don't remember how the seat specifically was, but it was a bit low to the floor and didn't go back very far, and the steering wheel was up in my chest, so I felt a bit like Jethro driving that old truck on "The Beverly Hillbillies".

I was disappointed, partly because I had always heard that Benzes were designed for comfort, but it just didn't work out with this model.

Now to be fair, there was a first-gen Cadillac Seville that I sat in, and it wasn't much better. I don't think I'd ever actually sat in a '75-79 Seville before, but I was pretty disappointed. I guess I just expected it to be roomier than its Nova clone counterparts, since it was a stretched version of the X-body. I guess the extra 3-4 inches all went in ahead of the firewall, though.

210delray

Nice-looking car, except I'm not a big fan of that color! I'm sure fintail can tell you if the seat/steering wheel relationship was correct. Maybe the seat had sagged?

I know that was a problem with the '77 Chevy Impala I bought with over 100K miles in 1985. Good thing that car had a tilt steering wheel, or I'd have been reaching upward to hold the wheel.

Ominous-looking sky also -- didn't it rain a lot that weekend?

fintail

Yeah, something might have been wrong. That car appears to be a W108 280SE, most are 1969-71. Maybe something was wrong with the seat track...I am 6'1", and I have plenty of room in the fintail, and I think the seat isn't even all the way back, it's very roomy for me. That car should be extremely similar inside to the fintail, as structurally they are nearly identical and share many parts. Not the greatest color too, as you mention.

texases

Case in point - "European Car" mag tried to restore an old 528i, called it the "Barnyard Bimmer" (that's where they found it, no engine, etc.). Many thousands of dollars later they never could get it to run right.

isellhondas

That's funny. I didn't know they had that in a movie.

If you slipped the guys doing the work a couple of ten dollar bills you got a better job and foam instead of horse $hit.

lilengineerboy

Case in point - "European Car" mag tried to restore an old 528i, called it the "Barnyard Bimmer" (that's where they found it, no engine, etc.). Many thousands of dollars later they never could get it to run right.

I thought the barnyard bimmer was a 530i which never ran right to begin with. GRM did a 528i I believe and went way over budget on trim items. There are plenty of suppliers for mechanical components so prices aren't that out of sight. I think metric mechanic has stage 1 and stage 2 motors for that car, or swap parts for the 3.5.

boomchek

Well the guy that bought my parents' 300D recently said he has a mechanic that can rebuld the seized motor for $600. If it would be that cheap I think my parents would have got it fixed, and they even told him that.

It seems very unlikely unless it is something minor in the motor. It would be interesting to see. Maybe I'll run into him on the MB 300D board here.

isellhondas

600.00? Something sounds VERY wrong especially if it seized up!

texases

Yep, probably a 530i (my memory's going) - as I remember, they spent big money on all the odds and ends that were missing or broken, and they tried to put a handling suspension under it which didn't work out well.

fintail

If it was genuinely seized, I suspect his estimate is missing a zero, certainly for an actual rebuild.

fintail

Any pimps need a car?

Andre-mobile

boomchek

A coworker (fleet guy) has a Caddy like that but convertible with the big 7 litre engine.

He recently acquired a Range Rover, and he says the caddy is like a hybrid compared to the Range Rover in terms of the fuel economy.

As for the 300D many of the calls we got were from people with MB 300D, 300TD, and 300SD, all with good motors and bad bodies. I think it would make more sense to do a swap rather than a rebuild, otherwise you might as well find a decent running example for under $4k.

Anyways the car is sold and hopefully it will go to a good home. When I was looking through the original books and records, I noticed MB used to stamp your name and address onto a metal plate toi keep with the books I guess for proof of ownership or something.