There you go...maybe more like an old fullback...he only gains a yard or two and most of his bones are broken, but he hasn't been carried off the field and never misses a game.
I think the only cars of the 1980s that came close to that spooky kind of reliability where nothing bad every happens were *some* the rather dull Japanese cars. You sold a Toyota to someone and you never heard about complaints afterwards...that was very rare to have one break down completely.
You gotta trust the used car market for judgment...you can get $5,000 for a clean 1968 Datsun 510 and you'd be lucky to get $1250 for a 1968 Volvo. Even Datsun 240Zs are way ahead of P1800s right now, by almost double. And a 90s Accord wagon is just as popular as a 90s Volvo wagon.
Hi Guys, I've always wanted a Jaguar E Type coupe and I came across this ad in Craigs List. I know the price of E types is high but this much for this??? http://austin.craigslist.org/car/277271826.html Looking forward to your comments. Jorge
eh, seems a little step. Depending how bad the rust is and what shape engine/tranny is in, there's a fair amount of $$$'s sitting there in parts that could be sold off, but it would take a closer inspection to see what is lurking there.
I've watched someone doing it. It's a formidable task. Basically picture this:--removing that big ohc straight 6 AND the transmission attached to it (they have to come out together) from the BOTTOM of the car.
So you need to jack the car up high enough to slip about 1/2 ton of motor and trans, at an angle downward toward the floor.
Not pretty. And REALLY not pretty if you don't get it right the first time.
then of course you have to replace the entire front bonnet/hood/fenders/grillwork section that you took off to access everything, and that is a bear of a bear of a bear to align properly.
Did we talk about dropping the entire rear axle assembly to replace the inboard brake rotors that hug the differential?
Still a Series 1 4.2 convertible is a car worth restoring...they are so beautiful and still exciting to drive.
The Series III cars with the V-12 are more GT cars than sports cars.
The XJ sedans are an equal nightmare to work on...same inboard brakes and rear roller bearing suspension, as well as little niceties like rubber injection hoses placed UNDER the intake manifold, fuel lines cooled by the AC unit, and twin saddle gasoline tanks that love to rot out from the bottom. The beat goes on with old Jaguars....you gotta love 'em to restore 'em.
I can tell you from experience that pulling that same engine and tranny together out of one of their sedans is not easy either. You can at least pull it out from the top, but with so much length (Straight six, plus transmission, plus (on some models like mine) the extra length of the hydraulic overdrive unit) you have to take your engine lift all the way up to get the whole unit almost verticle. It is an amazing pain. A lot of weight precariously hanging at a bad angle way up.
Through the bottom might actually be the easier route to be honest with you.
I wonder how many hours labor it would take for that clutch at 100.00/hr. or more?
I think I've told this story before here...
Years ago, I managed a large Auto Center for Sears in California. In those days we did everything but we really limited ourselves to what we would do on imports.
So, one summer night, I looked out my office window and noticed one of my battery guys installing a new battery in an old XKE. I thought nothing about it at the time. On a Jag, a battery replacement is the ONLY thing we would have attempted. Even so, we managed to botch the job.
A couple of days later, I got a call from the very British Service Manager at the local Jag dealer. It seems we had installed the battery BACKWARDS! He was nice enough to let me know that every British car built before 1965 used negative ground! I told him I didn't know they would even start if the battery was reversed.
" Oh, they bloody well will start|" he assured me!
As I recall, my bill for the various components that got fried came to around 1500.00! These were late 70's dollars.
I couldn't really blame my 18 year old installer, how could he have known? Last Jag we ever worked on!
Yeah, I'm certain he meant positive ground. My old car was originally positive ground as well. Much more straight forward to convert to negative ground if possible. Keeps all sorts of ugly mistakes from happening!
Actually, if I remember correctly, the US Navy held that belief (if they don't still to this day) as well. The Air Force (raises hand) did not however.
The negative/positive ground topic was actually a hotly debated subject for years.
It certainly made installing a sound system in an English car a pain a near impossibility....Actually, I think if you completely insulated the tape deck or CD deck from the rest of the car, (that is, run it on negative ground as you would "normally") it would work on a positive ground car but if you ever touched it with your ring finger or keys or anything else, watch out!
I would feel better if there was a pic at least. "Very little rust" is always disconcerting. It tends to mean "I have found very little rust, but when you strip the piant and bondo, you will find swiss cheese."
hmmm... a complete but fairly undesirable model and a desirable model that is missing everything important that MAKES it desirable. I see nothing good here, personally. But I'm not up on the Charger market, so my opinion ain't worth very much.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Depends entirely on what VIN plates and data plates are attached to the cars. If it's just a plain-jane 318, they aren't worth that much fully restored. If there are no VIN plates (used for other purposes...ahem), then they are worthless except for sheet metal I'd guess.
That is a nice Belair, but what is "surface rust", anyway? Other than scratched paint, doesn't that usually mean something bubbling up from below? Hopefully not extensive. As for the Fiat, he's asking the same amount that Spyders that run can be bought on EBay - if it's in such great shape, buy some tires and battery, change the fluids, and then ask that price. Oh, and I almost got the Vega GT confused with the Cosworth - now that might be interesting...
2nd the Fiat with auto comment...whats up with that? 2nd the Vega comment too, but if you just put a V8 in there you don't have to worry. If you are going to fix up a Vega and keep the 4, get a Cosworth. That Buick...I dunno, it seems kind of small to me. Do you have anything a little bigger?
I don't know about the prices, but I like that Kaiser -- sure is a looker with the unusual styling and flamboyant 2-tone paint job.
I like the '64 Bel Air too, but you're right about Grandma's interior! Still, you can enter the car through the right door and slide across the seat just like Jimmy Stewart did in "Vertigo."
'69 Electra: somewhat interesting, but I'd rather have the first year of that design -- the '65, and make mine a Wildcat!
I would think that's about the right price for these. I don't get why anyone would pay $20k for these when the newer genration SL can be had for that money.
I think the only people that would be interested in this generation SL would be those who always wanted one but couldn't afford it new, or people who grew up with them and they'd like it for nostalgic reasons.
Sort of like a lady who bought a used 94 Infiniti J30 off our lot because it was always her dream car. :confuse:
Or another couple who bought a used 1997 Hyundai Tiburon from us because she was dreaming about owning one since it came out.
Yep, a quick Ebay check shows these going (or bids topping out, 'reserve not met' ) about $6000-$9000 for 1988s with over 100,000 miles. The dreamers have their minimum set at $12,000, 0 bids, of course...
Maybe prices fell through the floor since I last checked. I remember a couple years ago one couldn't find a genuinely decent 560SL for under about 15K. You could find money pits cheaper though. Of course, we don't know if that car is really good or not.
And yeah, not a lot of reason to chase one of those for something like 20K when that money will get you a nice R129.
Well old V-8 SLs are just used cars, so they behave that way. As the age of USED cars goes up, the price goes down. With collectibles, it's the other way 'round.
The V-8 SLs will sink to a certain level and bottom out, and then creep up.
But $8K is too cheap for a 560SL because it is newer than, and much better than, a 450SL, which is worth about $8K.
So, no, $8K isn't "market" IMO. I'd buy every clean 560SL in the world for $8K. I'd buy that car tomorrow if it were close by and it were really clean, and I'd flip it for $4K in a day I betcha to a dealer.
But it had better have "no stories". One big dent and a torn ragtop and there goes your profit.
It's the milage that hurts it - if you look at actual sales (excluding the 'reserve not met' cars - they pull down the average, I forgot to leave them out before) the 87-89 560SLs with under 100,000 miles sold for about $13,600 on average, while the ones with over 100,000 miles sold for $8,500 on average.
Here's what collectorcar trader shows for 29 samples of 560SLs for sale all over the country:
Low: $8,995.00 High: $27,995.00 Average (mean): $18,339.31 Median: $18,900.00
If we knocked out the extreme high and extreme low and did only 27 samples, we'd still come up with a median of around $17,000, which I think is correct.
I have never ever seen a 560SL that wasn't a pile of junk selling for $8,000, at least not where I live.
Over 100K but under 135K or so is nothing for a Benz. It doesn't seem to deter buyers for an old SL.
Like I said, I'll buy every clean, no problems 560SL I could find at that price, and so would any other gearhead in his right mind I think. That's a bargain in my book.
Yep, those numbers looks like the prices listed on Cars.com, too. Maybe lower-quality cars end up on Ebay (desparation sales, could be). My numbers came from 12 sales (7 under 100k, 5 over.)
Well prices are just asking prices and will vary depending on quality etc, but it makes no sense whatsover that a 560SL is worth less than a 450SL, it just doesn't.
Maybe the 560SL seller is a silly person, or smarter than we suspect....hm......
Still the 560SL is SOOOOOO much better a car than the 450...it's not even close. Faster, better handling, better fuel mileage and more reliable. There's no downside to it unless Hans or Dieter gets you into their shop and slowly and gravely shake their heads as they peer into the engine compartment.
The car itself looks very nice. I love this statement in the ad, "I purchased this car from my brother in 2004 as it was suggested to him that he sell it or he would not be given permission to purchase another project vehicle."
That is the most gentle way of saying "his wife put her foot down" that I have ever read.... :P
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
912 -- FIRE ALARM red flag for me was "big bore" piston kit....that means Japanese flat-top pistons and that means hand grenade waiting to go off due to too high compression ratios. No thanks, and thanks for screwing up a great engine. Please enjoy pulling chunks of piston out of your crankcase.
I'd offer $8,000 and then pull the engine immediately and either buy proper German pistons or re-machine the heads to lower compression ratios accordingly. Probably the former.
912s are comin' up in price but they have to be RIGHT.
356A/preA -- these early Porsches are better for a museum that they are to drive IMO. The cars will hopefully be saved but for the average owner/collector these are the poorest choices of all the 356 models in terms of enjoyment, drivability, etc. I think. The Pre As are also very difficult for parts, and I noticed lots of wrong things on that car already. Sunroof is way cool, though, and rare.
The 356 you want are either the B roadster or the C coupe/convertible with those wonderful front disk brakes and strongest engines.
The 912 engine is just a slightly modified 356 engine anyway, so if I bought an early 356 I'd put a 912 engine in it. They sorta look right and they work mo' bettah. The original engine (if correct) can go in the shed.
Comments
I think the only cars of the 1980s that came close to that spooky kind of reliability where nothing bad every happens were *some* the rather dull Japanese cars. You sold a Toyota to someone and you never heard about complaints afterwards...that was very rare to have one break down completely.
You gotta trust the used car market for judgment...you can get $5,000 for a clean 1968 Datsun 510 and you'd be lucky to get $1250 for a 1968 Volvo. Even Datsun 240Zs are way ahead of P1800s right now, by almost double. And a 90s Accord wagon is just as popular as a 90s Volvo wagon.
I've always wanted a Jaguar E Type coupe and I came across this ad in Craigs List. I know the price of E types is high but this much for this???
http://austin.craigslist.org/car/277271826.html
Looking forward to your comments.
Jorge
james
For that price, I'd step away.
Parts car for $3,500 tops.
These are extremely difficult cars to restore,and why waste your time on the one E Type no collector wants or loves?
You can buy these cars fully restored for $30,000, and this shabby car advertised won't even be 1/3 done for that money.
Definite PASS!
Jorge
And for $6,500, at least where I live, a '68 2+2 should be RUNNING and drivable, even if a bit shabby.
If it were a Series I coupe, that's a whole other story. Never confuse the two cars, they are worlds apart.
Anyone ever replace a clutch in one of these?
So you need to jack the car up high enough to slip about 1/2 ton of motor and trans, at an angle downward toward the floor.
Not pretty. And REALLY not pretty if you don't get it right the first time.
then of course you have to replace the entire front bonnet/hood/fenders/grillwork section that you took off to access everything, and that is a bear of a bear of a bear to align properly.
Did we talk about dropping the entire rear axle assembly to replace the inboard brake rotors that hug the differential?
Still a Series 1 4.2 convertible is a car worth restoring...they are so beautiful and still exciting to drive.
The Series III cars with the V-12 are more GT cars than sports cars.
The XJ sedans are an equal nightmare to work on...same inboard brakes and rear roller bearing suspension, as well as little niceties like rubber injection hoses placed UNDER the intake manifold, fuel lines cooled by the AC unit, and twin saddle gasoline tanks that love to rot out from the bottom. The beat goes on with old Jaguars....you gotta love 'em to restore 'em.
Give me an XK150 roadster anyday. Not so complex.
Through the bottom might actually be the easier route to be honest with you.
(sigh)
I think I've told this story before here...
Years ago, I managed a large Auto Center for Sears in California. In those days we did everything but we really limited ourselves to what we would do on imports.
So, one summer night, I looked out my office window and noticed one of my battery guys installing a new battery in an old XKE. I thought nothing about it at the time. On a Jag, a battery replacement is the ONLY thing we would have attempted. Even so, we managed to botch the job.
A couple of days later, I got a call from the very British Service Manager at the local Jag dealer. It seems we had installed the battery BACKWARDS! He was nice enough to let me know that every British car built before 1965 used negative ground! I told him I didn't know they would even start if the battery was reversed.
" Oh, they bloody well will start|" he assured me!
As I recall, my bill for the various components that got fried came to around 1500.00! These were late 70's dollars.
I couldn't really blame my 18 year old installer, how could he have known? Last Jag we ever worked on!
I know every car I've ever had had the negative side of the battery ground to the chassis/motor. Am I not understanding something in that statement??
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
After all, we're talking about a British car here!
Just like a Model A. Leave it to the Brits.
Anyway, Mr. Lucas sure didn't like that backwards battery!
The negative/positive ground topic was actually a hotly debated subject for years.
Thanks
Jorge
http://austin.craigslist.org/car/265195995.html
I would feel better if there was a pic at least. "Very little rust" is always disconcerting. It tends to mean "I have found very little rust, but when you strip the piant and bondo, you will find swiss cheese."
Parts car at best. To be restored when they are worth 1/2 million dollars.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"67 68 69 Pontiac Firebird 455"
Hmmmm - maybe a fun project?
Who says they all rusted out or blew up?
The Kaiser
Paging Mr. Lemko!
Rare! Who'd a thought it?
A Fiat with an automatic? why bother?
If the Vega GT still has the original sleeveless aluminum engine, it has a transplant in its future.
james
2nd the Vega comment too, but if you just put a V8 in there you don't have to worry. If you are going to fix up a Vega and keep the 4, get a Cosworth.
That Buick...I dunno, it seems kind of small to me. Do you have anything a little bigger?
Chrysler must have used the absolute lowest-grade plastic for those headlight lenses.
I don't know about the prices, but I like that Kaiser -- sure is a looker with the unusual styling and flamboyant 2-tone paint job.
I like the '64 Bel Air too, but you're right about Grandma's interior! Still, you can enter the car through the right door and slide across the seat just like Jimmy Stewart did in "Vertigo."
'69 Electra: somewhat interesting, but I'd rather have the first year of that design -- the '65, and make mine a Wildcat!
THAT ended THAT project.....
:mad:
I really do have to start reading more carefully....
I think the only people that would be interested in this generation SL would be those who always wanted one but couldn't afford it new, or people who grew up with them and they'd like it for nostalgic reasons.
Sort of like a lady who bought a used 94 Infiniti J30 off our lot because it was always her dream car. :confuse:
Or another couple who bought a used 1997 Hyundai Tiburon from us because she was dreaming about owning one since it came out.
Everyone has their own tastes I guess......
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
And yeah, not a lot of reason to chase one of those for something like 20K when that money will get you a nice R129.
The V-8 SLs will sink to a certain level and bottom out, and then creep up.
But $8K is too cheap for a 560SL because it is newer than, and much better than, a 450SL, which is worth about $8K.
So, no, $8K isn't "market" IMO. I'd buy every clean 560SL in the world for $8K. I'd buy that car tomorrow if it were close by and it were really clean, and I'd flip it for $4K in a day I betcha to a dealer.
But it had better have "no stories". One big dent and a torn ragtop and there goes your profit.
Low: $8,995.00
High: $27,995.00
Average (mean): $18,339.31
Median: $18,900.00
If we knocked out the extreme high and extreme low and did only 27 samples, we'd still come up with a median of around $17,000, which I think is correct.
I have never ever seen a 560SL that wasn't a pile of junk selling for $8,000, at least not where I live.
Over 100K but under 135K or so is nothing for a Benz. It doesn't seem to deter buyers for an old SL.
Like I said, I'll buy every clean, no problems 560SL I could find at that price, and so would any other gearhead in his right mind I think. That's a bargain in my book.
Maybe the 560SL seller is a silly person, or smarter than we suspect....hm......
Still the 560SL is SOOOOOO much better a car than the 450...it's not even close. Faster, better handling, better fuel mileage and more reliable. There's no downside to it unless Hans or Dieter gets you into their shop and slowly and gravely shake their heads as they peer into the engine compartment.
Rip cord!
Pre A 356
Or are they all just wayyyy overpriced?
That is the most gentle way of saying "his wife put her foot down" that I have ever read.... :P
I'd offer $8,000 and then pull the engine immediately and either buy proper German pistons or re-machine the heads to lower compression ratios accordingly. Probably the former.
912s are comin' up in price but they have to be RIGHT.
356A/preA -- these early Porsches are better for a museum that they are to drive IMO. The cars will hopefully be saved but for the average owner/collector these are the poorest choices of all the 356 models in terms of enjoyment, drivability, etc. I think. The Pre As are also very difficult for parts, and I noticed lots of wrong things on that car already. Sunroof is way cool, though, and rare.
The 356 you want are either the B roadster or the C coupe/convertible with those wonderful front disk brakes and strongest engines.
The 912 engine is just a slightly modified 356 engine anyway, so if I bought an early 356 I'd put a 912 engine in it. They sorta look right and they work mo' bettah. The original engine (if correct) can go in the shed.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX