Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Price is good if the car is pretty nice. A restored 914 2.0 can run you $10K these days, so a "clean driver" should be worth $6,000. It had better have no conspicuous faults however at that price. None of this "it just needs a ___". Just minor nicks and loose threads and maybe a non-working clock and some dirt underneath, for $6K.

Of course $6K is easily very good used Miata money, so there's that consideration. But the 914 is probably more fun. Some parts of the car are very easy to work on, but engine access is tough. Good aftermarket, however.

lemmer

Just for giggles, I'll tell you what Excellence lists for a 914-4 2.0 -

So-So: $9,835
Good: $11,184
Excellent: $14,970

All of these numbers are double what they listed in 2003.

Mr_Shiftright

Excellence is always sky-high. The only time I use them is when I'm trying to *sell* a Porsche. If the editors of Excellence will pay those prices, I'm going to be a rich man very quickly. I would be more than happy to flatbed them a dozen "so-so" 914s a month at $9,800 a pop. I just saw a bottom-up resto 914 with a punched out 2.2 motor, new paint and interior, beautiful car for $12,000 asking. Rather tempting at $10K. And this is from a dealer.

lemmer

Some of the reader's sales reports are amazing. The November issue had an excellent 1995 Porsche 928 GTS with 10K miles on it for $77,000. That is stupid money.

Of course, Sportscar Market reported a plain jane early Maserati Biturbo in average condition NOT SOLD at $25K. They said they even double checked to make sure the decimal point wasn't out of place. I still think it has to be a mistake. The nicest newest Biturbo convertible is worth maybe half that.

lemmer

This is a green '68.

It is in nearly perfect mechanical condition. If there is anything that didn't work or was worn, I couldn't find it. It felt far peppier than other MGBs I have driven. The handling was great, but the ride did not seem too stiff. To get it ready for sale, he replaced the steering rack, brake master cylinder and all brake components, and put new tires on it. I honestly believe if this guy knew of anything else to fix, he would have done so before he put it up for sale.

The interior was really nice. It has Connolly leather seats that were showing a little wear with a small tear in the driver seat. The top had some wear to it, but a replacement wouldn't be required for a good while. No real complaints about anything here.

The paint is the only issue. The paint is twenty years old, and I suspect the prep work could have been a little better. Supposedly painted with top notch Dupont paint. Road rash has worn off all of the paint on the fender lips behind both rear tires. The paint has stars coming out around several of the convertible top attachment points. It is starting to spiderweb some behind the top. It has some swirl-like scratches in several areas that are noticeable. It looks like they might have been there before the paint job and just reasserted themselves over the years. Around the wiper arms, the paint is faded a little bit. All in all, the paint job looks perfect from ten feet, but has numerous flaws up close. The passenger door fit is perfect, the driver door has a tiny bit of sag. The chrome is all good, but not great with one noticeable area pressed in on the front bumper guard. Under the front bumper the sheetmetal is dinged pretty good from a possum incident.

Dude wants $13,900, decided he would take $12,000. It comes with a pile of spares and extras. If the paint was a little better, we might have driven home in it, but my friend wanted to sleep on it. We suspect it might be worth closer to $10,000 but my friend is willing to pay a little more just to get it done. He is buying it as a gift, and just can't make up his mind whether the paint is nice enough to make it a no apologies gift car. We fear that the spiderwebbing areas might get bad pretty fast if the car is used in the sun regularly (this happened to my old MGB in a big way).

I really like this car. For the right price, I would have bought it for myself.

To finish the story, we looked for another six or eight months and found nothing better. We called the guy back and we ended up buying it for $10,500. Since our first visit, he had put on some freshly powdercoated real Panasports and did some other mechanical refreshening (to take it from excellent to near perfect mechanically). No problems have shown up since the purchase. It has been even better than advertised.

fintail

Looks like a useful driver...some people here would be all over this...

Rare and ridiculous...never put the year of your car on the side of it

bumpy

never put the year of your car on the side of it

There is one time when that's okay.

hpmctorque

...as a Delta 98. There was a Delta 88, like the black one that appears in one of the photos, a Regency 98, and a Regency 98 Brougham. The one that's for sale is a Regency 98. That car's appearance is nice, and the fact that it's a one owner is a positive, but the model year isn't disclosed. It looks like a '88, '89 or '90 (lemko, andre, help, what year is it?).

jlflemmons

I think more like an '86, and those wheel covers are from a Delta 88. The Regency had much nicer wheel covers.

hpmctorque

"I think more like an '86..."

The headlights and grille are post '86. It could be an '87.

andre1969

I kinda like that "Delta Ninety-Eight". If it was an earlier model, I'd be leery of the transmission, but I'd guess if it was a 1988-90 model, it would have most of the bugs worked out. Of course, a ~20 year old car with 110,000 miles on it can dump the tranny at any time, depending on how it was cared for.

hpmctorque

Before bidding, I'd want to know the model year and info regarding the transmission, such as whether it was rebuilt or replaced, and maintenance.

Although there were only very minor appearance changes between the '87 and '88, I think there were significant improvements to the engine (except for the unfortunate switch to the problematic composite intake manifold, which may have more than offset the other improvements), and the transmission. As andre alluded to, the newer transmission was more durable, but as he also pointed out, the mileage is significant.

210delray

The style of that car hasn't aged gracefully at all, IMO. Then again, I never liked those near-vertical backlites GM insisted on using in the 80s (A-cars, N-cars, post-1984 C-cars, etc.).

One thing though that I'd like to see brought back today is the bigger side glass.

fintail

" Just one problem...It doesnt run"

Sure seems like a lot of these survived

Mr_Shiftright

Price seems a bit high to me, but if it's tip top mechanically, no great harm done. Driving it and being happy with it is much more important that whether you hit the price exactly. So maybe you're just a year or two ahead of the market, which will catch up, especially on an earlier MGB, which are more desirable. You're the one with the eyeballs on it, so you know better than we do. Could be I'm a bit behind the values. I would have expected sharper paint for that money....but then, a car with new paint and chrome could sell in the high teens, so maybe you're okay after all.

british_rover

Just too freaking funny

Mr_Shiftright

I wish he would have done it and videotaped it :P

fintail

" minimal body damage or rust" - ummm...I'm pretty sure this was dragged from the bottom of a lake

Mr_Shiftright

I think FREE would be a fair price.

jlflemmons

There were a lot of Toro's built that year, but the optional funky roof line and rear window was not too common.

But just because something is rare doesn't bring value. In this case it might just indicate that most folks recognized ugly when they saw it.

:shades:

british_rover

Hmhh I would give the guy with the range rover 800 bucks if the mattress comes with the car and it is new. :P

I wonder if it is really a 1986 Range Rover cause if it is then it is a gray market car. That presents all kinds of interesting problems. It might even be a carbed 3.5 liter V8 instead of the fuel injected one.

andre1969

There were a lot of Toro's built that year, but the optional funky roof line and rear window was not too common.

Those big Toros were actually somewhat rare in '77-78. They built maybe 25,000 of the regular models per year, and around 2500 of the XS models, which came with a roughly $2500 price premium.

The 1979 downsizing helped increase sales, to something like 40-45,000, but then the 1980 recession helped knock that back down. I think 1973 was the Toro's last really good year, with something like 55,000 built.

It does seem like an awful lot of those Toros survived though, considering the relatively low number built. Maybe they were bought by a more conservative buyer, who tended to take care of their car, hold onto them longer, etc?

I think an XS model with T-tops would be cool to have. Personally, I prefer that wraparound rear window to those tiny little opera window slits in the regular models. Too bad they didn't just keep the true hardtop model, though. I think that one's last year was 1975?

lemko

Of course, the one to have is the XSR. They only built one with the retracting T-Top.
You'd be surprised at just how many 1975-78 Eldorados that survived. Every time I go to one of the Cadillac shows with my Brougham there are at least 20 of these Eldos and they're not always the same ones. Many are still in extremely good condition.

Mr_Shiftright

That's because they were hardly driven. They are survivors, not restored cars, which is kind of interesting in its own right.

jlflemmons

I drove one of these when I was looking at a new '79 Cutlass Calais. It had the Olds 350 in it, and actually ran quite nicely. The style was pretty good, but it was many $K bucks higher than my budget would allow.

It was a lot lighter than earlier versions, and not as nose heavy. The '66 was a hoot to drive as long as you didn't have to take any sharp corners.

Can you say nose-plow???

fintail

Four-holer

"This wagon is a beast"

fintail

Funny about that Regency from earlier...looks like the seller is a curbstoner who likes older GM cars

andre1969

I like the 1987 LeSabre coupe that he has for sale. There's just a few inconsistencies in the ad, though.

First off, I was under the impression that the LeSabre/88 went to composite headlights for 1987. I think this one's a 1986. Secondly anybody wanna guess what's wrong with this interior shot?

fintail

Looks like the Ciera we had when I was a kid, I remember that dash and those vents clearly.

urnews

Secondly anybody wanna guess what's wrong with this interior shot?

Studied it for several minutes. Didn't see anything obviously wrong. Enlighten us.

british_rover

It says oldsmobile on the passenger side dash pad.

jlflemmons

That is an '87 Cutlass Ciera Brougham interior. I know, I owned one. Same color, even.

urnews

It says oldsmobile on the passenger side dash pad.

Whoops!

qbrozen

It says oldsmobile on the passenger side dash pad.

I didn't see that till you pointed it out, but I did see the "Brougham" on the driver's door.

andre1969

yep, it was a Ciera Brougham interior that was pictured. I think the first thing that caught my eye was the seat pattern, which is kind of a plush corduroy pattern. I had an '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe that had a similar, but less plush pattern. I kept thinking that the dash didn't look right for a LeSabre, either, and then noticed the "brougham" on the door panel, and the fact that the B-pillar was too far forward to be a coupe.

fintail

Speaking of all the 427/428/429 cars, this pitiful thing has returned

I always thought these were somehow awkward...maybe not a bad deal if it is in nice condition though

bumpy

So, for my $4500 I get a VIN tag, a few emblems, and a starter kit for a rust farm.

Mr_Shiftright

All he's really selling is the VIN tag...wink, wink, nudge nudge...and you're supposed to take the hint as to what to do with it.

bumpy

"You know, I don't like the looks of the frame rails on this rare-option '63 Galaxie. I'd better do something about those. The doors are kind of a mess, too. Lucky me I just happen to have a nice pair on this 6-cylinder Galaxie over here. Maybe I can use the frame rails from that, too. And the window glass. And the rest of the body."

fintail

I wonder if it worth putting back on the road...I bet it's a thristy sucker

Not many left like this anymore

andre1969

That Ford F250 would probably be great for local chores, like hauling firewood, taking heavy loads to the dump, pulling an abandoned car out of the woods, etc. I imagine though, that for anything long-distance, like towing a trailer or carrying a truck camper, that engine would just be too thirsty compared to a more modern truck.

I like that Chevy conversion van! Hey, one thing I always wondered...I know the cops can bust you for doing it in a car. But if you're in a van and nobody can see you, can they do anything? Of course, they'll probably see the van a'rocking. The ad, where it mentioned "privacy curtain" made me think of that. :shades:

andre1969

I'm not crazy about the color, but this 1978 LeBaron coupe looks pretty nice, otherwise. Interesting how mix-and-match options were back then. This sucker actually has a leather interior, but crank windows! I'm not sure, but I think the LeBaron and Diplomat were the lowest-priced cars, domestic at least, that offered leather as an option.

One thing I just noticed about the engine, is that it's a walking advertisement for Lean Burn. None of my 1979 R-bodies had a Lean Burn sticker anywhere on them. I wonder if Chrysler finally got smart, and started to realize that drawing attention to the fact that it had Lean Burn was NOT a good thing!

210delray

"This is an coming future classic."

Don't think so. :P

andre1969

"This is an coming future classic."
Don't think so.
How true. :sick: Now this 1979 Magnum, on the other hand... :P

Actually, if the engine conversion didn't butcher something up, I think this one could be fun. I always thought the Magnum was good looking for that era, going for a muscular, sporty look rather than the pretense that most personal luxury coupes of the time went for. Almost as if the Magnum was a musclecar in search of an engine! Top engine you could get in 1979 was a 360-4bbl, with 195 hp, so this one's 383-4bbl might be a welcome change.

I like the style of this one better than the LeBaron, although comparing the two shows just how inefficient some of those pre-downsized cars could be. The Magnum (and Cordoba) werre about 10 inches longer, and probably 400-500 pounds heavier, than a LeBaron/Diplomat coupe, but had little, if any, extra interior room. More shoulder room, definitely, but most likely less headroom, with seats lower to the floor.

So, all in all, another piece of late 70's junk that still manages to catch my eye

toomanyfumes

Look at the top right photo on that Magnum. Is a VW 2.0 Liter a good choice for that old Chrysler? :confuse:

andre1969

Look at the top right photo on that Magnum. Is a VW 2.0 Liter a good choice for that old Chrysler?

Oops. Maybe it's a dual-fuel type of vehicle...I wonder if it can qualify for some kind of hybrid tax credit? :P Either that, or somewhere on eBay there's an auction for a Beetle, and one of the cloeseups is showing a Mopar big-block! :surprise:

qbrozen

car show ready

I guess that's true ... as long as you don't expect to win. Unless, of course, they've started adding points at shows for the wrong engine, cracked dash, and leaking differential.

fintail

Get real

Not many of these around anymore

And probably much less of these

lemmer

I am starting to want this link BMW 840. Somebody talk me down, quickly.

Mr_Shiftright

Let's do a visualization exercise. You are struggling in the water, tired, exhausted, gulping water, gasping. Suddenly a boat appears! It's a high speed launch from the BMW dealer. You swim over, calling for help. A well-dressed young man in crisp whites gently loops a rope around your waist, and then attaches the other end to a 1000 lb block of lead. They throw it overboard and say "Have a nice day, come back soon".