Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,639
    " the estimate that i got with the paint job and everything else is 3100" - Dude, you'd be lucky to get that fixed for 13100 or maybe 31000...the a-pillar is even gone. No way
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    Thanks fin, you made my day! That is the nuttiest ad I've seen in months. What a :sick: :sick: :sick:
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Man, that looks sad. The fact that the (optimistic) seller left it sitting in the yard under a tarp for 2 years says a lot. :sick: Parts car.

    james
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,779
    One could probably get it back to "drivable" condition with $3100, but that would still be one helluva long way from pre-crash condition. That said, he could probably get $3000+ out of it with the parts that are not destroyed, but not if he sells it whole.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Parts car, hopeless, totalled. Crush it.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,779
    Gut it first, then crush it. ;)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'd expect a wrecking yard to do that, yeah, but I bet you'd be amazed how little of value is left on abused cars like this.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,432
    Lesson for the day is that if you can't afford the collision, don't but the car. It's not sitting in the woods for two years because it cost 3100 to fix.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I doubt $15,000 could fix that car at this point in time. God knows how it stinks inside and what has happened to the electronics.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    Makes you wonder what happened to the A-pillar...jaws of life?? ugh...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Yeah, that '70 Chevelle is certainly a lot easier on the eye than any Matador ever was!
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,432
    I don't know how many of these are goign for 20 grand unless it's some rare hipo version. Old Pontiacs were pretty configurable so there are some full sizers out there that have tri-power and 4 speed. This one is detined to never be worth too much but if you love full-size Pontiacs from the early 60s, you could do worse. This looks like good bones.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Yeah, I doubt if too many bare-bones Catalina 2-door sedans are going for $20K. I think that thing is kinda neat for the rarity. 2-door sedans were common in the low-line Fords, Chevies, and Plymouths, but you didn't see them too often in step-up cars like Pontiac...at least not by 1963.

    I think it's a good looking car. A utilitarian body style that still had some flair to it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I think this car would make an excellent "sleeper." I'd keep the outside of it as stock as possible but restore that 389 V-8 and add some period performance touches.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "A utilitarian body style..."

    With gas at $3+ (don't these cars require premium?), and the possibility of prices going even higher, I'm afraid the poor fuel economy of these cars precludes them from being utilitarian.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Some of the hotter versions of the 389, and the 400 which replaced it, required premium fuel, but there were also de-tuned versions of the 389 available. For instance, in 1963, the 389 was offered in 215, 230, 235, 267, 283, 303, and 318 hp configurations.

    Funny, but for being a performance division, most of those ratings aren't too impressive. The 318 hp was for the tri-power. I'm guessing the 303 was a 4-bbl and all the rest were 2-bbl setups. In contrast, Mopar's similarly-sized 383 put out 305 hp, with just a 2bbl carb. So that was putting out more hp than any configuratoin of the 389 short of the tri-power.

    My 1967 Catalina originally had a 400-2bbl, with 290 hp. There was a 4-bbl with 325 available, and I think both of these required premium. There was also a 265 hp version offered that was standard on the manual shift and a credit option with the automatic. That one was designed to run on regular.

    There was also a 400 with 333 hp offered as an option, which seems kinda silly to me. I mean, what's the sense in only offering 8 more hp? If you wanted some real power though, there was a 428 offered, with either 360 or 376 hp.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    My point is that cars that were designed to run on regular unleaded, or, from '75 (the year catalytic converters were installed on most domestic cars, and some imports) through the late '70s or early '80s, now require unleaded premium. For example, do your old cars get by with 87 octane, without pinging or spark retardation, or do they require 93 octane with the spark set at spec?

    By the mid '80s my parents' '69 Dart Slant Six required '93 octane to run well, and so did my '78 LeMans with the 305. Initially both ran fine on regular, but I suspect, although I'm not certain, that there were some changes in the gasoline formulation that resulted in older cars not running right on '87 octane. Wasn't the octane rating of leaded regular more than 87 octane? Maybe some of the problem was due to normal mileage related build up, but I think it was mostly due to the gasoline. Just my perception, for what it's worth
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I usually try to put at least 89 octane in my older cars. I've actually run 87 in my '67 Catalina and '57 DeSoto, and they didn't seem to mind, but I just felt guilty doing it, so I didn't do it regularly.

    My '76 LeMans seems to have a strong preference for 93 octane. I tried putting 89 in it coming back from Carlisle last June, but at higher speeds, especially on up-hill grades, it started to clatter a bit, so I put 93 in on the next fill up. My '79 NYer 5th Ave is similar, but not quite as extreme. My other '79 NYer, the base model (but same engine, a 360-2bbl) actually seems fine on 87.

    My '85 Chevy Silverado (305-4bbl) seems okay on 89 for the most part, but in hot weather, it seems to prefer 93.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Andre,
    Have been meaning to ask this question for quite awhile now. Out of all your vehicles, which is your favorite and why? How about ranking them for us.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    Out of all your vehicles, which is your favorite and why? How about ranking them for us.

    Wow, that'd be a hard one, because they're all have their good points and bad points. But off the top of my head, I'd probably rank them like this...

    1: 1957 DeSoto Firedome. I fell in love with these things the moment I first saw a picture of one, when I was 15. Bought mine when I was 20, in 1990. It wouldn't make a very good daily driver, but it's cool to look at!

    2: 1967 Pontiac Catalina convertible. I loved the '67s even as a little kid, and when I found this one for sale (oddly, I saw it driving around in my DeSoto, after a Mopar show) I had to have it. It would actually make a pretty good daily driver. More comfortable than the DeSoto, and while not much smaller, it's a not more agile. And the way it chirps the tires shifting from 1-2 and even from 2-3 more than makes up for the crappy fuel economy.

    3: 1979 New Yorker, base model. Comfy, roomy, decent handling, and good looking, IMO at least. I really like its color, midnight blue with a matching cloth interior.

    4: 1979 New Yorker 5th Ave. Better equipped than my base New Yorker, with leather, cruise, and a power antenna, but I just like the midnight blue better than the 2-tone beige. Plus, the blue one's in better shape for the most part, except for one minor detail. The 5th Ave has never left me stranded. The base model, which most likely really just needs a tuneup, and I've been procrastinating, will refuse to start sometimes when it's hot. I've lost track of how many times it would refuse to start and leave me stuck at work. Pulled that stunt at the post office once, too. But eventually, it'll always start back up. It's just a matter of when. :sick:

    5: 1976 LeMans coupe. I really like the looks of this one, but its peformance is sort of underwhelming. Despite having a Pontiac 350-4bbl, either of my New Yorkers, with their wussy 360-2bbls, take off a lot faster. It's not THAT much slower, but I guess I was just expecting more. It also feels claustrophobic inside. It's all hood, and while the seat probably goes further back than most modern cars, it just feels sort of confining inside. It's a good handling car, though.

    6: 1985 Chevy Silverado. My Granddad bought this thing new, and it got handed down eventually to me. In many ways it's just a tool to haul stuff with, or a spare car when someone needs it, but it's been with us so long that it's like a part of the family!

    7: 1968 Dodge Dart 270 hardtop. Has 338,000 miles, hasn't run in years, and common sense would tell me to get rid of it. But I just have a nostalgic, emotional attachment to it that I just can't break!

    8: 2000 Dodge Intrepid. Decent enough car, but just an appliance.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    Thanks for the interesting reply. One last question, what is your daily driver? Boz
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    I usually rotate between my 2000 Intrepid and my '85 Silverado. When the weather's nice, I'll drive one of the others every once in awhile, although it's been awhile since the Catalina or DeSoto have been driven.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...the car I like to drive the most is my 1988 Buick Park Avenue as I worry about it the least. Of my cars, the 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance and the Park Ave are my daily drivers. It seems my girlfriend's 2005 Buick LaCrosse is the car that we both use the most. As to which is my favorite - it is easily the 1989 Cadillac Brougham but I'm most afraid to drive it.
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    How is the Brougham running these days? Just curious, what's the current mileage now?

    Speaking of Cadillacs, you must be loving your new DTS sedan. I bet it has more pep than your former Seville.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    ...the car I like to drive the most is my 1988 Buick Park Avenue as I worry about it the least.

    I sort of feel the same way about my pickup and Intrepid. The Intrepid is getting to the point that it's just an old used car, so I'm not going to be all that concerned if it gets another stone chip or dent on it. And my pickup is tough enough to hold its own...as long as someone doesn't T-bone me in the saddle tank at 73 mph, I guess! :surprise:

    As for my two NYers, I only paid $900 for the 5th Ave and $500 for the blue one, but I'd still probably cry like a baby if anything happened to either one.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The Brougham probably runs better than it has in several years as I had a new exhaust installed from the "cat" back and fixed an exhaust leak near the manifold back in October. I had the A/C recharged last April. It has 157?K on it now. Last took it out in November. It still looks awesome.

    The new DTS is probably less peppier than the Seville as it feels as heavy as a tank compared to it. The car is at least six inches longer and has so much extra stuff in it, the Seville seems like a plain jane compared to it. The DTS is gorgeous when it is clean, but it picks up dirt instantly. Gotta be real careful with the Raven finish. It is not as forgiving as the Seville's White Diamond finish.

    The Park Ave was spared some nasty body damage at the expense of my girlfriend's LaCrosse. I usually leave the Park Avenue out front, but girlfriend insisted on us taking the Park Ave out to save on her fuel. Well...the one night we leave her car out front and put the Park Ave around the back, my neighbor's wife hits the driver's door of my girlfriend's car with her 2001 Jeep Grand Cherokee. The woman is only 20 years-old and just came to this country from Brazil last year. She is a terrible driver! Hopefully, it will all work out for everybody involved.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd much rather have something happen to my new car than the Brougham. I can always replace the new car, (great insurance + gap), but the Brougham is irreplaceable. I could always find another '89 Brougham, but it won't be mine. If something did happen to it, I most likely would get a real classic 1950s or 1960s Cadillac. Remember that nice 1966 Fleetwood at Carlisle? Too bad I don't have a place for it! I bet you guys would've been surprised if I actually bought it.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,639
    I guess I'll chime in here too. I'm on my 4th MB, and I can rank them. My first car was a 66 Ford, although I had it only for several months as it got hit and ruined. I loved the idea of that car, the big loud bruiser with its huge engine and ability to be appreciated by my peers, but the thirst of the car and carb issues had me hating it in secret.

    Anyway, of my cars, the E55 is easily the best car in terms of performance and comfort. It has every convenience, it has amazing performance, it is endlessly comfortable, and it has as much soul as any modern sedan can have. That's not saying much. The C43 was dead reliable and fun to drive, but it was too harsh for me, and having 4 doors but no real backseat got old fast. It was like an overpowered overweight gokart. The W126 that preceded it was a beauty - so well built, such high quality materials, I had loved those cars since I was a kid and it was my first modern car. It had only one hiccup over the several years I owned it, when the fuel distributor died. It was really getting up there by the time I sold it - nearly 200K, but it was tight and smooth - not sporty, but such a relaxing drive. Really from an era that has passed. That leaves the fintail - my first MB, I got it when I was still in high school. It's needed work off and on over the years, but I think it could handle daily driver use with a little work. I find it very fun to drive, and it has endless sentimental attachment for me, I have driven it many places and had many experiences in it. For that, the car I like most is the fintail, with the W126 and E55 tied for their respective strengths. The C43 places last of the 4, but not a bad car, it just didn't endear me as much nor was it as comfortable for me, maybe a little too raw, I am not 16 anymore. My collections of pics show this too, as probably 90% of my pics are of the fintail and W126.

    I am also with lemko in that I would much rather have something happen to the modern car. It can be replaced...the fintail really can't.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Geeze, they've got $7,000 already "invested" in it and it's still not perfect. What they've already spent probablt exceeds the value of the car. I'd be better off restoring my 1988 Buick Park Avenue to concours standards.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What a horrifying money pit. I wouldn't touch this car for $2,000 much less anything more. These are notorious rusters.

    No upside here. You can buy a really nice one for 12,000 all done and restored.

    These cars have stagnated for years in value and they never do well at auctions.

    Not a bad car to drive. Heavy, heavy feeling, not a fast car, more like a comfy GT automobile.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,779
    The interior on that '91 is in great shape for 200,000+ miles! Odd though, that he has it listed for $3200 and the first sentence reads, "great car for $1500." So, is that what he paid for it, or what he wants for it?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,639
    Those cars were made from extremely good materials...if maintained, they held up like that. I had a 1989 version of that car (identical), it was pristine at nearly 200K. I caught that price thing too...Maybe that's what he'd take for it. For $1500, it'd be a good beater.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,639
    You'd have to work to get $1500 for that car if it was perfectly roadworthy.

    A somewhat similar money pit

    Another good way to butn money...looks so peaceful until picture #9...ouch
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    What a great collection of money pits - I guess the C was 'kompressed' :sick:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    These people are NUTS! The C230 is totalled, gone, finito, done, finished, over, retired, end of story. Wrecking yard.

    The 740 needs a hood, has the NAV and stereo stripped out, is on a salvage title and he wants 9K in real money.

    That is MOST amusing. Let's see, retail value about $15,000, less 50% for salvage title, less $2,000 for stereo and NAV used, less $2000 for hood and repaint. Yep, about $3,000 is right for that car. Wrecking Yard.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,779
    I had 220K on my '96 Subaru, and the interior looked very good on it as well, but that certainly was not typical. I often see these old wagons with fewer miles and fairly shredded upholstery. But, that MB's interior looks extraordinarily nice. The one on yours looked great from your photos as well. Heck, if that car will run reliably for a year, it would be a great beater.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,779
    Regarding the C230. So, looking at it, I do not see any damage to the rear wheels. If the damage is limited to the body (i.e., cosmetic), why not throw a pair of trailer lights on the rear and drive it until it dies? I would be up for that, for.... um..... $1000. :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,639
    If the car really has been cared for, it could easily go a year with no mechanical issues, although it might puke up a window swich etc here and there. They are a sturdy comfortable car. But if it has been neglected, it can destroy ones sanity.

    Regarding the 'kompressed' C230 - cut off the crumple zone trunk and make it into some redneck freakshow pickup.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    Here you go:
    image
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Nice, but I would have done it with angle-iron and plywood. :P

    james
  • lilelvislilelvis Member Posts: 82
    http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/car/535593997.html

    Numbers matching? Well, except I swapped in a 351C.

    For the record, I have no problem with the 351C - but try to sell a car as original if it isn't. And even still, price it accordingly. :confuse:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the car needs a total nut and bolt restoration which, if you pay someone to do it, is easily a $100K proposition, so yeah, just go out and buy a finished one. One could probably find a date-coded engine block, since Shelby after all just took parts off a shelf and bolted them on anyway.

    He needs to lower his price to around 35-40K I think.

    "Matching Numbers" in the case of this vintage Shelby means that the Shelby tag is placed over the Ford VIN (as shown in his photo) and the Shelby records allegedly show this Ford VIN in their production schedule as one they picked off the assembly line to make into a GT350.

    This car will be restored no matter what.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    but today, conditions were just right, and I was able to get a group pic of almost every clunker I own, save the DeSoto.

    I'd had my '67 Catalina convertible in the garage, parked behind my '76 LeMans. The Catalina had a dead battery. The LeMans, which just got a new battery in June, was refusing to start. I'd been playing with it on and off for about a month, charging the battery, trying to jump start it with my '79 New Yorker, etc, but it just wouldn't fire up. It would turn over and over until it ran the battery down, but just wouldn't catch. Well, I put the Catalina's battery on a trickle charge earlier in the week, and today put it back in the car. It fired right up. And then oddly, when I jumped the LeMans, using the Catalina, it fired right up as well. :confuse: Maybe it had been rejecting the Chrysler as being a foreign entity or something?

    Oh yeah, today I discovered that the idiot light on the Catalina that warns you that you have no brakes is functioning just fine. :sick: I didn't see any signs of leakage on the garage floor, but the back part of the dual master cylinder was empty.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,158
    Good pic - what's in the Dart? 225?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,109
    It's a V-8, but I don't know if it's a 273 or 318. According to the VIN, it originally had a 273, but at around 242,000 miles it got a rebuilt engine. I don't know if the original engine got rebuilt, or a rebuilt engine got put in there, but the guy I bought it from told me it was a 318. I didn't realize until years later, when I learned the VIN codes for the various engines, that it was originally a 273 car.

    Anyway, it has about 338,000 miles on it, and unfortunately stopped running about 5 or 6 years ago. I think it was the fuel pump. It would run for a few seconds if I poured gas in the carb, but then would die once that burned off. At the time, I didn't have the time or the money to mess with it and get it running again, and it just sort of deteriorated from there. I'm thinking about at least pulling it out from beside that shed and parking it in the driveway, so that at least it doesn't look so forlorn. Just today, one of my roommates mentioned it, and said that Dart just screams "There Be Rednecks Here!" :P

    Maybe sitting in the driveway, versus on the grass, it'll look a bit better. At least we're out in a rural area though. There's a development nearby, with typical 1/4 acre lots, paved driveways, and mass-produced houses. In one of the front yards, sitting on the grass, is one of those W126 Benzes, with no tags on it. It's been sitting there at least a month. Oh well, at least I'm in good company, I guess.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,639
    This is a bit of an oddity anymore...some elbow grease could really clean it up I think - of course, that still might not make it run very well
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