Cars with 250,000 miles are essentially "parts cars" and should be valued accordingly, IMO. A person should offer a price for them that suggests a willingness on the part of the buyer to accept that the car could blow up tomorrow morning....and then what? So you really have to figure them as junk value.
I suppose you could do the "shifty test" and drive the crap out of them for 1/2 hour before buying, to see how they react under stress, and if it passes that kind of test, this might indicate somewhat longer life (6 months? a year?). But often a seller won't let you do that to a car, and can't say as I blame them, since they know as you do that every 250K car has a heart condition and shouldn't climb stairs. :P
Heck, even with "only" 158k miles on the Benz I just bought, I consider it a gamble. As long as it lasts 4 months, it has paid for itself, essentially. Anything beyond that is money I've saved by not having a car payment.
Now, as a parts car, I'd say that Volvo might be worth the current bid ($1300), as you could probably get $500 just for the seats.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Well a wrecking yard might get $500 because they can sit on a partly disassembled car for years---but in your driveway, I don't think so. It takes a long time for a private party to part out a car. Maybe if you took the car apart, bagged and tagged all the best parts and put them on industrial shelving, you might get back your $1300 in time. But that's a lot of effort.
Last thing I want to do is hang around all day waiting for someone from a craigslist ad to come by to look at the possible purchase of the left rear door handle on my wheel-less Volvo.
Last thing I want to do is hang around all day waiting for someone from a craigslist ad to come by to look at the possible purchase of the left rear door handle on my wheel-less Volvo.
It's probably not something that you can do in high-density/high real estate value areas, as space is at a premium; not to mention HOA's and such. I could probably get away with it where I live, although eventually, as the car started losing too many parts, I'd have to throw a cover over it to keep the county off my back. But, like you alluded to, there is a value in your own personal time. I had thought about trying to part out my '68 Dart, but really didn't want to deal with the hassle. Plus, the second somebody pulled the 8 3/4 rear end out of it, it would be sitting up on blocks, and kinda hard to move around in the yard, if necessary.
I was there but you didn't show up, so I went shopping and spent $250. Then I came out and someone had backed into the grille of my Volvo. Too bad I already sold the other grille I had for $25 back in March. The dealer wants $1200 for a new one.
I think whether or not it's worth a gamble on a car like that Volvo depends a lot on how you plan to use it, and for how long you'd like to keep it. Being a turbo automatic, right there you have two major components with above average vulnerability and cost to repair. That said, if, for example, you needed an extra car for a limited time because your child in college is home for the summer (my situation a few years ago...3 people working in different locations, without a good public transit option), for, say, $1,500 you could take a chance on it. That assumes that Volvo, or whatever miled up car you're considering, doesn't have any immediate needs. Further, if I were to take that gamble, I'd drive the car gently, and limit my expenditures to whatever fluid changes were required. If a major component failed, I'd sell or scrap the Volvo and buy a similar car to get me through the period for which I needed an extra car.
Speaking of handles, did that window crank you bought at Carlisle fit your '67 Catalina?
Hate to say it, but I've been kinda lazy lately...haven't gotten around to putting it on yet. I need to go to the auto parts store to buy that little tool you use to pop the clip on the old handle. I could run over to my mechanic and have him do it, but I don't feel like driving over there just for that. Plus, I need to get some other stuff anyway...new headlights for the Silverado, and a battery for the DeSoto, so I'll try to do it all in one trip.
That '86 7-Series looks gorgeous. I seem to recall Shifty commenting some time ago that these were really good cars, and that maintenance costs for this 6 cylinder model are not unreasonable, or words to that effect. Is my recall accurate, Shifty?
The pricing on the '87 535i leave me wondering what may be wrong with it, since it seems to me to be priced below market.
So the early MLs (1998-00) were fraught with plenty of quality problems and teething issues, huh?
Strangely enough, my uncle still owns a '99 ML320 he bought new; it has over 140k miles and he says it has been relatively problem-free. However, he says that electrical gremlins pop up from time to time.
....that 535i is literally 3 miles from my house, maybe (since I'm bored and unemployed, though as such clearly not cash flush) I should go take it for a looky-drivey-loo. Entertainment is hard to come by right now.
I guess there's a good apple in every bunch, just like the Ford Tempo my family eventually ran up to about 190K miles until it wasn't needed anymore.
Those cars were renown for shoddy build quality and infinite electrical issues, they are regarded as the lowest quality MB in the history of the firm. The engine itself might keep going, but there could be problems with everything else.
7 Series is nice. Very clean. Perfect for BMW only shows etc and reasonable price.
ML that needs some work. Lemme guess: Check Engine Light on, electronic issues, sensors, emissions? Probably needs more work than it's worth otherwise seller would get it fixed. I never liked those or the new MLs. The BMW suvs look better imo.
'86 BMW 7 Series: I wonder why he thinks they are "rare". They are thick as flies out in California. Well, be that as it may---yes! Great cars. Best car BMW ever made, hands down, IMO. Pace and grace, decent MPG, not too many gizmos, bulletproof engine, ZF tranny. Only caveat I can think of is that the driveshafts are not rebuildable, so if you are getting vibration, or have a loose u-joint, it's $600 bucks and up for a new or reman one. My old one is still running in Las Vegas somewhere.
RE: the term "needs some TLC" or "needs work".
translation: "I found out what the problem was and what it costs to fix, and decided that same day to sell the car to you".
That said, if, for example, you needed an extra car for a limited time because your child in college is home for the summer (my situation a few years ago...3 people working in different locations, without a good public transit option), for, say, $1,500 you could take a chance on it
And that is the exact reason why I keep an extra, old car around. My daughter and SIL both just finished law school (please, no lawyer jokes :P ). They have one car between the two of 'em, which was fine while they were living in the city within walking distance of school. But now that they both have jobs ( ), they needed another vehicle. So my daughter is back to driving the '92 Sentra until she decides to spring for another vehicle.
For less than $250/year for insurance and registration, she couldn't have come anywhere close to that with any kind of used car. And, at least the Sentra is a known quantity, which could not be said for a $2000 used car.
Hard to say how a new car is going to perform over the years---I sure hope VW improves in reliability, since they are a nice alternative to the Japanese tendency to vanilla-ize their cars.
It seems another big VW problem is the service after the sale, lots of horror stories about terrible repairs, poor treatment, etc, etc, etc...can't fix that with just a good car. Maybe the European dealer network's way better.
Also not a level playing field for competition in Europe. Given a totally free market, I think the Japanese would eat VW for breakfast. (not that I'm in favor of that either).
That ain't it. Your 'normal' German will take the car in to the dealership for everything.. the once-a-year or 15,000 km oil change and the once-a-year emissions checkup.
And every other year, for sure, to get the inspection sticker where they try to poke a screwdriver through the floor or rocker panels. No driving rustbuckets, you see.
In the course of all this, they will not flinch if it costs, on average, $1,500 or 1k euro to get out of there. Which it will, unless something is wong.
My mom, for instance, had new brakes and rotors done all around for some idiotic amount of money -- six or seven hundred euro, iirc -- because the brakes were so worn that they wouldn't have made it anoterh 30k kilomters. IOW, the stuff gets inspected, and if it looks like it might not make it to the *next* inspection, it gets replaced.
With that kind of overkill, it's little wonder that German cars last a long time and tend to look great at 15 years old. Running a Passat 2.0 Turbo on the Buick/Toyota maintenance plan -- 2 oil changes a year, and air up the tires -- will kill the silly thing.
The Buick, meanwhile, will go on craigslist at 100k and be in "excellent" condition. By which I mean it'll still be running OK, and with some maintenance, go another 100k.
EDIT: I agree with what Shifty said.... it's the other side of the same coin.. they have never seen a truly high-reliability, low maintenance car.
I would certainly consider the Grand Marquis at that price. IMO the 92 - 94 were nice looking years for those. The front grill got odd looking in the mid - late 90s.
Hmmm, that trunk mounted luggage rack looks really cool and prestigious. On the other hand, if your idea of fixing 'er up includes removing the rack, you'd have to consider the expense of plugging the holes in the trunk lid, and repainting.
The GMC Safari needs a timing belt? Try again, sparky. Ain't been a 4.3L built that didn't use a timing chain. And '92 was the first year for the balance shaft L35 engine. 200HP at the wheels, but if he thinks it needs a timing belt, beware.
BTW, I had one of those L35 engines in a '92 GMC S15 Jimmy. Scary fast. Nothing that sits that high off the ground should be able to accelerate like that. A couple of years later GM changed the intake and FI, dropped the HP to 190 and improved the gas mileage.
I would certainly consider the Grand Marquis at that price. IMO the 92 - 94 were nice looking years for those. The front grill got odd looking in the mid - late 90s.
One of my friends, who currently has a 2004 Crown Vic, had a 1995 Grand Marquis GS previously, in a shade of blue that was very close to that '93, if not identical. He bought it with around 57,000 miles on it, and I think it had around 175,000 when he traded it in 2004, for his Crown Vic. And now he has at least 150,000 on that car.
I think my favorite of those cars is the 1992 Crown Vic. That was the only year it had that controversial grille-less front-end. A lot of people didn't like it, for that very reason, but I thought it was neat. It really made it stand out, and in a good way.
I thought the grille on my buddy's '95 Grand Marquis was a bit odd looking at first, too. Something about the way it was rounded off, it just didn't quite seem to fit on the car correctly.
In the early '80s a relative let me drive his 924 on a curvy, hilly road. I recall that it handled well, but the acceleration was disappointing (even for that time), and I disliked the unusual shift pattern of the 5-speed. Okay, in Porsche's defense, I wasn't used to that pattern, so maybe that was my problem. However, I remember the owner telling me that this car was high maintenance, but that since it was owned by his company, that didn't matter much to him.
Based on that 15 minute drive, I have to wonder whether the 944, even the turbo, is wonderful enough to justify the maintenance and repair headaches, and expenses that are likely to come with the ownership experience. My answer would be "no way."
Incidentally, the 924 was subsequently traded for a 928. Now that would have been the one to drive, but I didn't get a chance to drive it.
Well, the 924 had a 110hp Audi 2l engine, the 944 had a 150 hp 2.5. that was (more or less) half of a 928's v8, much better, if not amazing. The 944 turbo had 220 hp, so it was pretty powerful for the time. But you're right, keeping them running today is $$$$.
Comments
I suppose you could do the "shifty test" and drive the crap out of them for 1/2 hour before buying, to see how they react under stress, and if it passes that kind of test, this might indicate somewhat longer life (6 months? a year?). But often a seller won't let you do that to a car, and can't say as I blame them, since they know as you do that every 250K car has a heart condition and shouldn't climb stairs. :P
You are gambling at this point.
Heck, even with "only" 158k miles on the Benz I just bought, I consider it a gamble. As long as it lasts 4 months, it has paid for itself, essentially. Anything beyond that is money I've saved by not having a car payment.
Now, as a parts car, I'd say that Volvo might be worth the current bid ($1300), as you could probably get $500 just for the seats.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It's probably not something that you can do in high-density/high real estate value areas, as space is at a premium; not to mention HOA's and such. I could probably get away with it where I live, although eventually, as the car started losing too many parts, I'd have to throw a cover over it to keep the county off my back. But, like you alluded to, there is a value in your own personal time. I had thought about trying to part out my '68 Dart, but really didn't want to deal with the hassle. Plus, the second somebody pulled the 8 3/4 rear end out of it, it would be sitting up on blocks, and kinda hard to move around in the yard, if necessary.
Hate to say it, but I've been kinda lazy lately...haven't gotten around to putting it on yet.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/ctd/1429257641.html
and a nice 6-series (don't know where they're getting the '1988' from, this is clearly an '83 or '84, or the claim of '6-speed manual'):
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/ctd/1427869623.html
this 535i looks OK, too:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/1423938970.html
third Corrado I've seen in a week:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/1431709123.html
nice lil car for the price, though a stick would be better:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ctd/1431691115.html
wonder what 'needs some work' entails, as these are imfamous:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwi/ctd/1431678967.html
The pricing on the '87 535i leave me wondering what may be wrong with it, since it seems to me to be priced below market.
The work the ML should receive entails driving it back in time to a C4C promotion (they must have been eligible, right?). Dark chapter in history.
Strangely enough, my uncle still owns a '99 ML320 he bought new; it has over 140k miles and he says it has been relatively problem-free. However, he says that electrical gremlins pop up from time to time.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Those cars were renown for shoddy build quality and infinite electrical issues, they are regarded as the lowest quality MB in the history of the firm. The engine itself might keep going, but there could be problems with everything else.
ML that needs some work. Lemme guess: Check Engine Light on, electronic issues, sensors, emissions? Probably needs more work than it's worth otherwise seller would get it fixed. I never liked those or the new MLs. The BMW suvs look better imo.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
RE: the term "needs some TLC" or "needs work".
translation: "I found out what the problem was and what it costs to fix, and decided that same day to sell the car to you".
And that is the exact reason why I keep an extra, old car around. My daughter and SIL both just finished law school (please, no lawyer jokes :P ). They have one car between the two of 'em, which was fine while they were living in the city within walking distance of school. But now that they both have jobs (
For less than $250/year for insurance and registration, she couldn't have come anywhere close to that with any kind of used car. And, at least the Sentra is a known quantity, which could not be said for a $2000 used car.
here it is!
I'd be all over it!
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Ford built the Sierra XR8 about 25 years ago for homologation purposes in South Africa. Must have been fun.
That ain't it.
Your 'normal' German will take the car in to the dealership for everything.. the once-a-year or 15,000 km oil change and the once-a-year emissions checkup.
And every other year, for sure, to get the inspection sticker where they try to poke a screwdriver through the floor or rocker panels. No driving rustbuckets, you see.
In the course of all this, they will not flinch if it costs, on average, $1,500 or 1k euro to get out of there. Which it will, unless something is wong.
My mom, for instance, had new brakes and rotors done all around for some idiotic amount of money -- six or seven hundred euro, iirc -- because the brakes were so worn that they wouldn't have made it anoterh 30k kilomters. IOW, the stuff gets inspected, and if it looks like it might not make it to the *next* inspection, it gets replaced.
With that kind of overkill, it's little wonder that German cars last a long time and tend to look great at 15 years old. Running a Passat 2.0 Turbo on the Buick/Toyota maintenance plan -- 2 oil changes a year, and air up the tires -- will kill the silly thing.
The Buick, meanwhile, will go on craigslist at 100k and be in "excellent" condition. By which I mean it'll still be running OK, and with some maintenance, go another 100k.
EDIT: I agree with what Shifty said.... it's the other side of the same coin.. they have never seen a truly high-reliability, low maintenance car.
Cheers,
-Mathias
http://chambana.craigslist.org/cto/1438176533.html
Crying Uncle
That's quite a list I think that he's going into the Army to get away from this thing
WOW
87 Porsche
Probably pretty good if it looks good in person Most of these at this price have a lot more miles, then again, this is a Brooklyn car
Somebody here has to like this
The Aztek is a decent deal if the miles are low and you can live with the ugliness.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I agree---parts car. That engine might be worth some bucks if it's half-way decent.
BTW, I had one of those L35 engines in a '92 GMC S15 Jimmy. Scary fast. Nothing that sits that high off the ground should be able to accelerate like that. A couple of years later GM changed the intake and FI, dropped the HP to 190 and improved the gas mileage.
Oh, but that Jimmy could fly!
One of my friends, who currently has a 2004 Crown Vic, had a 1995 Grand Marquis GS previously, in a shade of blue that was very close to that '93, if not identical. He bought it with around 57,000 miles on it, and I think it had around 175,000 when he traded it in 2004, for his Crown Vic. And now he has at least 150,000 on that car.
I think my favorite of those cars is the 1992 Crown Vic. That was the only year it had that controversial grille-less front-end. A lot of people didn't like it, for that very reason, but I thought it was neat. It really made it stand out, and in a good way.
I thought the grille on my buddy's '95 Grand Marquis was a bit odd looking at first, too. Something about the way it was rounded off, it just didn't quite seem to fit on the car correctly.
Based on that 15 minute drive, I have to wonder whether the 944, even the turbo, is wonderful enough to justify the maintenance and repair headaches, and expenses that are likely to come with the ownership experience. My answer would be "no way."
Incidentally, the 924 was subsequently traded for a 928. Now that would have been the one to drive, but I didn't get a chance to drive it.
For example: "$25,000 in receipts the last two years"