Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

texases

"I guess you could increase the pressure the stylus puts on the record, however, that would kill the records over time. "

You got it. They couldn't care less about wearing out the grooves, just having it in the car was the point. Of couse, their rarity shows how unsuccessful an idea it was...

lokki

The article explains that they made the player with a tone arm that would only move horizontally and that the arm was also made so that its pivot point was the center of mass so as to avoid lateral-acceleration induced skipping during turns.

The tracking force was 2 grams! Essentially the things came from factory with a penny already glued to the tone arm

Mr_Shiftright

They skipped---that's how they worked.

Note well how quickly they disappeared as an accessory.

I think the idea is that you would park with your honey and put on a romantic tune or two. Given how fast a 45 rpm record played (ever notice how short the songs were in the 1950s?---I guess this was before those long drug-induced solos of the 60s :P )--seems like you'd be rudely interrupted 25 times an hour.

tjc78

Essentially the things came from factory with a penny already glued to the tone arm

Thats what I figured. I didn't have a chance to read the article yet. I guess we have a come along way in car audio! Thanks for the explanation.

tjc78

Note well how quickly they disappeared as an accessory.

Yep and then there were 8-tracks

lokki

"think the idea is that you would park with your honey and put on a romantic tune or two... seems like you'd be rudely interrupted 25 times an hour"


And then there were 8-tracks.

Yeah, they were a big improvement - you could tell how things were going - if she didn't notice that the music was starting over :shades:

Reminds me of the famous old poem from my high school days:

"Oh John, please let's not park here tonight!"
"Oh John, please let's not park here!"
"Oh John, please let's not park!"
"Oh John, please let's not!"
"Oh John, please let's!"
"Oh John, please!"
"Oh John!"
"Oh!"

Mr_Shiftright

Aside from how short the songs were, the production values really stunk--sounded loike they were recorded in a garage (probably were, actually). It really took the Beatles and 33 rpm vinyl to make R&R music sound good. I still think music sounds best on vinyl.

qbrozen

Well, whatever you'd call it, here it is.

I'm surprised the bidding has gone that high, frankly, yet the reserve is not met.

stickguy

they actually seem to be fairly common, at least as far as these conversion go. I like this one, even if the interior is a bit dated.

cheap fun if done right! Plus, it's not like anyone else was making a V8 performance 4 door with a stick at the time, right? other than a BMW 5 series I guess...

At least the engine fits nicely in this car (expected since a I4 and a V6 also fit!), and it should be robust enough to handle the power if you don't go nuts.

The real winner though would be the same set up in a 940 wagon. Now we are talking!

oregonboy

I vote for "Vol-tang". I like it. I would like more if it were a wagon.

And I can see why the guy wants more that the current $5+k bid on it. Labor of love sort of thing.

Mr_Shiftright

Seems like the current bid is close enough. Car needs some sorting, looks like tires soon, and that typically crappy Volvo leather of that era has had it.

Gee, go buy a really nice & clean C4 Vette for $8500.

michaellno

The real winner though would be the same set up in a 940 wagon. Now we are talking!

I thought there was a tuner in CT who specialized in that sort of thing. Not sure if it was 940's - it might have been 240's and 740's.

IIRC, Paul Newman used to drive one.

british_rover

A guy I went to college with had a 240 wagon with a mustang V8 conversion in it.

That was a stroker motor though and had a high rise single plane manifold with a 850 CFM Holley on it. Crazy car very much a sleeper.

A guy that worked as the same autogroup as me but a different dealer had a 240 V8 wagon that he used to tow his 318ti race car.

Now that is a crazy combination.

Mr_Shiftright

It's a conversion that makes sense. Volvos always wanted to be American cars anyway.

texases

How hard is it to get that kind of thing inspected/licensed?

british_rover

Depends on the state.

Some states really don't car at all. I bet Texas is that way Virginia was for the most part. No emissions inspections so it didn't matter what motor was in the car and you just registered it as a Volvo under the chassis VIN.

Up in CT I might have a problem because their is a emission inspection every two years but as long as the motor is of the same year or newer then the car you put it in you should be ok. I think that is how my co-worker got around it is that the mustang motor in his 240 was from the mid 90s so it easily passed emissions on an 80s car.

jlflemmons

There are several areas in Texas now that require an emissions inspection. I don't know if there is a "pass" for custom installs or not, but every one of my vehicles gets a connection to the ECM to check for codes, faults, etc. If the inspector cannot connect to the ECM on a post '96 model, fail.

andre1969

Up in CT I might have a problem because their is a emission inspection every two years but as long as the motor is of the same year or newer then the car you put it in you should be ok. I think that is how my co-worker got around it is that the mustang motor in his 240 was from the mid 90s so it easily passed emissions on an 80s car.

As long as they're just doing a test where they take actual tailpipe readings, rather than computer codes, the only thing that matters is that it runs clean enough. And that it has a catalytic converter, if they happen to look underneath for that. I don't think they'd even be able to tell if you had an older motor in. What would probably happen would be if the car failed, they'd make you take a re-test. And then if it failed the re-test, you'd get a waiver if you could produce enough receipts showing that you tried to fix the problem. So then you'd get a pass until next time.

I've always wondered how many times they'll let you take a re-test? In Maryland, the first test is $14. If you fail, I think you have 30 days to get it re-tested, and that test is free. After that though, each additional test is $15. I wonder if you could just keep re-taking and failing the test indefinitely? $15 per month really isn't a lot of money, if you have some wildly modified car like a 426Hemi PT Cruiser or a 351W Focus, which most likely would never pass.

explorerx4

does that little sign say don't pull pin?

a what?

how much makeup is this wearing?

real story: mechanic gave up

pricy?

'tardes' seems appropriate

not sure about the price, but nice

Mr_Shiftright

No way you can register the Stang-vo in California.

You could register it in Nevada. You can own an atomic bomb there as well.

explorerx4

my 91 mustang got smog tested this past summer on the dyno setup, too old for OBD2. never had a tuneup but still passed. test rpms were 2300+. 1000 = 40 mph.

Mr_Shiftright

59 SquareBird --- scary looking thing. I'd think about $6500 would be enough, if you even wanted it. Interior dinged up, engine bay makes me cringe, who knows what lies underneath it all? You can buy these pretty clean for $12K--$15K or so. You ain't gettin' THERE from HERE.

68 volvo P1800 --- not too far off if the car is show quality. Try $10,000 to $11,000.

'69 Goat -- it would have to be pretty impressive for that money.

xwesx

On that Saab, that's quite an asking price given the fact that the buyer could not possibly verify that, with the head gasket replaced, it would run. It would be easy enough to get the thing put back together, but if there are other problems at that point, you have a very expensive paper weight.

oregonboy

In order to be work buying for more than "parts", an inoperable car has to be sufficiently desirable to be worth rebuilding. That Saab clearly is not. :sick:

texases

But...but...he NEEDS $1,500! C'mon, have a heart! "Mechanic arrested for DUI" - translation: "This job drove him to drink!" :P

Mr_Shiftright

it's a parts car.

andre1969

My Intrepid's first emissions test was the dyno/treadmill thing, as Maryland hadn't been equipped with the OBD-II test equipment yet. My grandmother's '85 LeSabre and my '85 Silverado both had to go on that same test. I compared the results to the Intrepid, and noticed that, while the 2000 standards were stricter than 1985's, both the LeSabre and Silverado would have still passed the 2000 standards with flying colors!

So if a standard 5-liter carbureted V-8 with 100,000+ miles on it can easily pass an emissions test, I'm guessing there's plenty of wiggle room for much bigger, higher performance engines...provided they're tuned up correctly.

Mr_Shiftright

It doesn't matter what comes out the tailpipe in many states unfortunately, but what the engine is, and what's on it in terms of emissions equipment.

Here's how it works in California at any rate:

"The basic intent of the California engine change laws is that when you do an engine swap, the new engine/transmission cannot pollute more than the original engine/transmission. This means the newly installed engine must be the same year (or newer) as the vehicle, and all emissions controls on the newly installed engine must be installed and functional. Also, you can't put a heavy-duty truck engine (over 6000 lb GVW) into an S-10 Truck because heavy-duty truck engines have less stringent emissions limits than light duty trucks.

To get your engine swap approved, you must go to a Referee Station."

source: http://www.jagsthatrun.com

jrosasmc

Shifty - quite right. Now I know why a lot of late-model Saabs meet a premature death and go to the big parking lot in the sky.

Also, I just had to share this note - a friend of mine recently traded in her '98 900 SE Turbo 5-speed sedan (it was giving her a lot of trouble) for a new Acura. And - she only received $800 for a trade-in! This was for a rust-free New England car with 120k miles on it! Man, she was so angry that she swore off Saabs forever.

Mr_Shiftright

Whether cars are "classics" or "modern" they are still valued under the rule of supply and demand I think---and by "demand" I don't mean just people "wanting" one, but also wanting to PAY for one. Lots of people might say "hey, I'd love to have an old Saab/Volvo for second car". Yes....? But when they show up, the prices offered make this "desire" very suspect indeed.

It's more like hedging a bet. Most people won't gamble more than they can afford to lose. For a Saab with a bad head gasket, I wouldn't gamble more than the $$$ I could get for it in a junkyard.

andre1969

So in California, when you take your car to the emissions station, do they actually open the hood and look in there to see what kind of engine it is? And even if they did that, how would they know what year or displacement the engine is? For example, Lemko's 1989 Brougham has an Olds 307-4bbl. He could yank that sucker out and throw in an 403-4bbl, and it would look like the same engine. Same external dimensions and such. It's not like they stamp the date of manufacture in some blatantly obvious place on the engine.

And, while a 403 would pollute more than a 307, it might still be clean enough to pass the test. Well, actually I could see California's standards for 1989 being strict enough that a '77-79 engine with 1/3 more displacement wouldn't cut it, but in Maryland it would probably pass.

How far back do they do emissions testing in CA? In Maryland, they go back through 1977, so my '76 LeMans just missed it. However, you can get historic tags on anything that's 1989 and older (1990 as of January 1, 2010), and with historic tags you're exempt from emissions testing.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah they check everything. You're not going to get away with it.

CA tests vehicles from 1976 on up.

Again, what comes out of the tailpipe doesn't matter. You could put a 2005 Prius engine into a 2008 Hummer and you'd fail the smog test.

xwesx

"Again, what comes out of the tailpipe doesn't matter."

That is my experience, for sure. The testing up here (Fairbanks, AK) doesn't even include pipe sniffing any more for vehicles that are computer-controlled. They pop the hood to do a visual inspection and plug it in to a computer. If that's good, you're good to go.

I have a friend with an '85 Chevy van. He had a 305 in it originally, but replaced that with a 350 and some exhaust modifications. He took it to a local shop and had them tune it up to run "as clean as possible." In the end, I think he said the results were that tailpipe emissions were 1/3 of the allowable level, but he could not renew the tags on it because he had pulled the air pump system off it. But, he showed them. Rather than put all that garbage back on there, he drove it to New York, shipped it to Amsterdam, and now has it in Finland, where he lives for part of every year. :P

I other words, it has nothing to do with emissions, it has to do with revenue.

andre1969

They pop the hood to do a visual inspection and plug it in to a computer. If that's good, you're good to go.

I guess we're just lucky in Maryland. I've never had them look under the hood of my car. Just take a mirror on a stick and look under to make sure it has a catalytic converter. And sometimes they'll take off the fuel cap and test it. They used to have this thing that they'd stick in your fuel filler to measure the opening, to make sure it wasn't routed out so you could put leaded gas in it, but I guess they quit doing that around the time they quit selling leaded gas.

Maryland is also inconsistent about emissions testing, as some counties require it and others don't. And if it holds out until January 1, 2020, I can get historic tags for my 2000 Intrepid, and never have to deal with an emissions test again! :shades:

andre1969

but otherwise, this '77 Grand LeMans sedan looks like it would make a nice companion to my '76. It's even the same color (well, the proper shade of FireThorn...my '76 was repainted a darker maroon). I wonder though, with 94,000 miles, if its 301 engine might be close to the expiration date?

stickguy

I have never had the hood opened while driving through the DMV inspection station.

The do the OBD test now (plug it in and no codes = GTG). Think that might be starting with 1998 models? They still have the rollers and tailpipe sniffer for older stuff. So, I assume a 1991 volvo would get that, and I doubt the rocket scientists working there could figure out there was a V8 under the hood.

These are the same people that failed my 2001 Miata, because they didn't have the right plug for the port (or something ridiculous like that). So since they couldn't hook it up, they just failed it. ANd didn't bother to tell me why until I went back and harranged them.

Anyway, just do what the rest of the gross polluters in the state do. Go to a private shop of low repute, and for your $50, you get a sticker.

tjc78

The do the OBD test now (plug it in and no codes = GTG).

When did they start that? I took my 99 S-10 in March '08 and they put it on the rollers. My daily drivers are leased so I never have to have them inspected while I have them (3 yr lease, 4 year new car sticker, )

texases

IIRC, OBD-II started in '96. My '96 ES doesn't need rollers, my '95 Suburban did, which made it harder to find a shop to inspect it.

toomanyfumes

I used to have a '76 Trans-Am with the 455ci engine. The engine was just covered in vacuum hoses, all of which were rotting out. I tried replacing them all, the hose diagram in the shop manual was vague as to where they all went.

When I took it for emissions they decided to do an underhood inspection. I was pretty nervous I wouldn't pass. An older lady walks up, I pop the hood, I look and she had the same crappy diagram as me. She peered at the mess for about 20 seconds, kind of shook her head and said, "looks good to me" and I was on my way.

michaellno

While we have testing stations in the metro Denver area, the state has also introduced a nifty way to test cars.

On highway on-ramps, there is a truck with a sensor that "sniffs" the exhaust of cars that pass by. Along with a camera, it records the information and, when your renewal notice comes in the mail, you're told if you have passed or not - if not, then you'll need to go to a testing station. The cost of the drive by emissions test is added to your registration amount.

At the stations, they do put the cars on rollers.

explorerx4

that must catch only gross polluters. what if the wind was blowing toward the vehicle being sniffed?

explorerx4

not sure how many fish i will catch.

except for trunk fit looks nice

a what?

orig rx7

80's hot stuff

truth or fiction?

low rent scam

rarely seen 80's toyota pickup

ghulet

that BMW is strange....I think he means 728i, did they even build a 720i (four-cylinder?).

explorerx4

1965 vw van

texases

Yeah, must be a 728, they didn't make a 720, even for Europe, as far as I know.

oregonboy

Not sure what's rare about the 80's Toyota pickup. (SR-5? V6?). You can't swing a cat around here without hitting half a dozen of the things. (small town Oregon). :shades:

Mr_Shiftright

we are equally infested here in California. A favorite of gardeners just starting up their business. They do seem to keep on going, I will say that, even if the bench seating can break your back. I guess they sport the sturdy 22R engine. I took one of those engines apart some years back and was quite amazed at the quality and machining of the internal parts.

boomchek

Our mechanics 11 class in high school had an endless supply of old Toyota motors (not sure of it was 22R) for students to learn on. I guess the cars they were from rusted out before the engines reached the end of their life.

Mr_Shiftright

I think what surprised me is that the internals of the 22R were crafted much better than they had to be. I'm not sure what purpose it served, since American engines of that time were very crude and cheap by comparison, but generally lasted a long time in spite of abuse and neglect. The American engine might not always have RUN well, but rarely disintegrated. Sometimes cheap and tough is a good thing. :P

boomchek

Rough and rugged. Unlike Italian or British cars - those disintegrated frequently or were they just very fragile :lemon: