As a teen, I once overheard a conversation that sounded eerily similar to that. I will tell you the same thing I said then: "I think that is a little more than we wanted to know...." :surprise:
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
The Austin Healy Sprite and MG Midget were the same car in the 2nd generation. Both were rotten cars, horrible electrics, and dang near impossible to keep running.
Yeah, I had a '67 model. Got rid of it after 9 months, or, as I like to say, Got rid of it before it got rid of me.
Lever action shocks, carbs that wouldn't stay synched, electricals that liked to catch on fire, fuel pump that liked to leak on the exhaust, the list could go on forever.
I knew a fellow who had one of these. It would "diesel" continually when the key was turned off. This caused the car to flap & bang dramatically as if possessed. For amusement we would park it downtown and watch, from a discrete distance, the reaction of pedestrians to this phenomena.
right....the car is a Bugeye Sprite, of which there was never an MG version. So the man doesn't seem to know the car he owns. Actually a Bug Eye is worth substantially more than the later Midget.
Bug Eyes are a pain in the butt it's true, ,but there are few cars in the world wherein you can have more fun.
Well that was one of the more climatic to anti-climatic experiences I have ever had. Climatic because there was no way that car was worth $1,500 real money to us and I really didn't want to over allow more then 500 bucks or so.
Anti-climatic because that didn't matter as it looks like the Merc blew its turbo when our appraiser went out to start it. It had the normal little puff of diesel smoke out the tailpipe to start but then smoke just exploded out the tailpipe from under the car and under the hood/fenders.
The whole lot was pretty much covered in a smoke screen within a few seconds and I was about to make a run for the fire extinguisher in the body shop when they shut the car off and made a run for it. The smoke stopped a few seconds after they shut off the car.
We put a dollar on it and showed her 600 bucks and that made her happy.
A couple of days later I was able to get it started and moved off to the side before the smoke could build up too much from the hot exhaust but the car had absolutely no acceleration anymore. Foot to the floor I couldn't get it past 30 mph and it was knocking so badly that the floorpan was shaking. :surprise:
A wrecker will come take it away next week probably.
Hey didn't you know those cars go 500,000 miles easy? :P
I had to look at about 15 "pristine" MB diesels before I bought mine. The rest ran the gamut from totally lame in all 4 legs to "passable but misrepresented". My favorite was the one advertised as "all original", with a totally greasy engine underneath a brand new shiny cylinder head with the wrecking yard's label on the valve cover. Others included one with sheet metal laid over the rusty floors and "sewn" in with thin cable, like a tent patch!! Then there was the usual assortment of collapsed seats, non-working climate controls (no heat either), collapsed rear compensators, a gawd-awful stink in the car from diesel spills, broken window regulators--blah blah.
I used to scoff to see these cars for sale at $6000 dollars but you know, having seen so many rats, maybe a really really good one is worth that to someone.
YOu know all the power accessories worked including the sunroof. There was a nicely done aftermarket CD head unit that looked like it belonged in that car and all the wood trim was in good shape. The inside smelled though so I think the sunroof leaked at one point and the carpets were in poor shape. Seats were very comfortable probably one of the few times I have found Merc seats to be comfortable. I usually find them too hard.
Outside was ok but some of the trim was coming off and there was some rust forming at the bottom of the driver's side fender.
I have my own "project car" of sorts out today, after 7 weeks of downtime due to being away, and because the weather has been terrible lately. The car always makes me smile... 2 seconds or so with the key turned, and it fired right up like I just drove it yesterday. I have to believe many modern cars wouldn't do that.
Just saw a REALLY clean Peugeot 505 wagon, manual trans. Guy wants $1500, which seems high for any Peugeot ever sent to THIS country---but it's pretty spiffy I must say. Might be nice to have an extra car around for hauling. They really drive nicely on the road.
I read about that in a German magazine...they put a 2.5 Bluetec at 204hp/369lb/ft in the little W201. Probably a decent performer, and likely a real world 45mpg. $20K into the conversion no doubt, but an excellent combination of freakshow and performance.
My old MB mechanic had a late 190E 5-speed sportline...he put a 24 valve 300CE engine in it...it wasn't much of a slouch either, but 20mpg would be lucky there.
But I'd be more than happy to pay them ... oh... $7k for it when they are done. :P
Hey, has anybody seen that Brit show Wheeler Dealers? It is on HD. I've seen it a few times in the past and enjoyed it. Then they had a marathon on Sunday. I recorded most of it.
Funny thing I've noticed is that they guy hardly ever makes money on the cars they buy and fix up. And, even when he does, it is not nearly enough to pay for all the labor his partner puts into it. BUT, I love the show. It is the only one I've seen where the mechanic actually gets his hands dirty.
They did a 190 Cosworth. Bought for $2700 (GBP), put another $900 into it, then sold it for $3500. I just watched them work a deal on a '79 Porsche 928. Paint was shot, car had been sitting in a garage for 10 years. Bought for $1600, put $3400 into it (included $2k for a full repaint, and that was the price only because the staff mechanic did all the prep work himself) and sold for $6k. This is the biggest margin he has gotten so far in all the cars I've watched them turn around ... yet if you consider all the time and effort, still not worth it. If you think about it, it is a show exactly about the things we discuss here.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It is a great show. I have it set to record on my Tivo. You are correct, if you factor in the labor, they are waaaay underwater on these cars. But it is a fun show. I hope they start putting some new episodes on.
I got a real laugh when they did a C4 'vette. Mike (the host) was dogging the electrics in the car (digital dash was out, headlights didn't pop up) and said something to the effect of "thats the way it is with Yank cars, the electrics are always dodgy" Really? A Brit slamming electronics and wiring on a car? I have one word for him: LUCAS.
Again, a good show and sometimes you get to see something that never made it over here like the Lancia Delta Integrale or the Pugeot 205.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
I have the C4 shows and Lancia shows on the DVR still. Haven't gotten to them yet. Also have episodes on a CJ7. I filled up the remainder of my DVR with the marathon. When I flipped through to see if there were episodes i would delete without watching, I just couldn't do it. It seems all the cars they do I have some interest in. Oh ... well ... OK, I could have done without the Monsterfied Suzuki Sidekick. :confuse:
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Post 19353 is creating the problem, so just type 19354 in the "go to message" box and you'll have a normal screen again.
People need to resize their photos before posting. There is simple free software that does this in a jiffy, like VSO image resizer that you get from cnet.com.
glad I am not the only one that got hooked on it. My wife thinks I am nuts (well, she did anyway I guess). But I got my 14 YO daughter interested! But she may just like the accents.
The Mike guy also has another show set in his dealership. Forget what that one is called, but they always have a spot the lemon segment that is interesting.
The other show, perfect for this thread, is "beetle Crisis". 2 "blokes" are trying to take the rattiest bettle I have every seen and turn it into a show car in their garage (like attached to the house garage). Just saw the episode where some old guy rebuilt the engine out on the side lawn.
There needs to be a support group for people like us! I watch both of those shows as well. The one at the dealership is called Auto Trader. It took me a month to figure out all of the language differences..."shift" for sale...."parts exchange" for trade in etc.
Also like Classic Cars which comes on after these on Tuesdays.
Good shows. My favorite is Wheeler Dealers though.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
"Real Genius"...1985, Val Kilmer and a few others...that scene is when the bad guy's house is filled with popcorn popped via a powerful laser. I remember I had it on VHS when I was a kid.
Not sure about the channel lineup in Seattle, but here in Denver Discovery HD Theater is channel 663 .. you only get it if you have the HD package from Comcast.
I've watched all the episodes of Wheeler Dealer and Auto Trader and have enjoyed them all thoroughly.
I particularly enjoyed the episode where they refreshed the Lexus LS400 ... they purchased a set of slightly used tires and wheels (17" or 18", I can't remember which) for something like $750 USD, added Bluetooth and some other cosmetic stuff.
It's always fun to watch Andy (the mechanic) crawl around and under the project cars -- he looks to be about 6'5"!
The only thing that bugs me, and was mentioned above, is that the labor costs aren't calculated. I've always felt that these projects take several weeks to complete, so figure 50-100 labor hours.
Oh, I don't doubt that complete frame off restorations can run into the 1000's of hours.
It seems that on Wheeler Dealers, they address the major issues - both mechanical and cosmetic - on the cheap where possible. "Patterned" parts, for instance.
yes if one is clever and resourceful, a fairly shabby but basically "sound" vehicle can be made to look like a "daily driver" (looks pretty good from ten feet away) for not all that much investment.
It's especially beneficial to the budget to ignore things like authenticity and "perfect fit". Used parts, artful application of paints and dyes and "good enough" overhauls of components (alternator bushings rather than rebuilt alternator, e.g.) rather than actual rebuilds, all help to keep costs down.
Yep, that's what they try to do, find shabby sound cars. But they typically just about break even, ignoring labor. I get a kick out of guys who think they'll make a mint off of some junker they're fixing up. If these experts can't do it, how will they?? And I do like how Mr. expert Carini often takes a bath (or at least only breaks even) on some pretty expensive machines. Fun to watch!
What I do when I fix up a car is to use it for a while. Then, when I sell it, or price it I mean, I calculate the use I got out of it as part of its "value"----a part of the value that I have claimed for myself.
If say I were to sell my Subaru (which I'm not---I don't think...) I don't think I could get what I have into it (about $5,000). Too much for a '97 with 160K miles and some dings.
But I have put over 30,000 trouble-free miles on it.
Now, if we took a new Subaru for $25,000 and amortized it over 12 years, those 12 years cost about $21,000 in depreciation, or 13,300 miles a year of wear a year and $1750 per year depreciation (of course, it depreciates more at first and less in following years).
So my Subaru has given me thousands of dollars of value.
Even if I sold it for $3500, I wouldn't think that I "lost" on the car.
BUT....if I had tried to merely "flip it" in a couple of weeks, I would have lost $1500 bucks probably
ON THE OTHER HAND, if I were flipping it, would I have put in a brand new radiator rather than flush out the old one? Would I have put on 4 new tires, or rather scrounged some take-offs from the tire shop? And really, did those cracked CV boots need replacement--they hadn't actually split yet.
I did by the way, re-use the clutch disk--it looks fine.
That's how to do it, get some use and enjoyment out of it- I wish I could have some of those cars they end up selling for $5000 or so for a year, no way to lose money at that point.
Anyone who gets one of my used cars is usually a lucky [non-permissible content removed]. They aren't perfect (it's exhausting to keep an old used car at 100% functionality 24/7) but they always have a lot of life left in them, and are safe and reliable.
My friend has done pretty well with cheapie flips, especially taking a car that's been sitting and sprucing them up. Mostly, he'll get something that's not starting but bring it back to life with mostly tune up parts and then give if a good cleaning from top to bottom. He's especially good with cleaning up under the hood. He makes the engine compartment look spiffy and then put on some NOS stickers on the air cleaner and that really impresses people.
His typical deal will be to but something for $500 and sell for $1500. He's sitting on a 72 LeSabre now.
Comments
Only a MISUNDERSTOOD car.
Your car doesn't start on a rainy night? This is merely a cry for help.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1473063247.html
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Yeah, I had a '67 model. Got rid of it after 9 months, or, as I like to say, Got rid of it before it got rid of me.
Lever action shocks, carbs that wouldn't stay synched, electricals that liked to catch on fire, fuel pump that liked to leak on the exhaust, the list could go on forever.
Seemed like fun at the time. .
Bug Eyes are a pain in the butt it's true, ,but there are few cars in the world wherein you can have more fun.
Anti-climatic because that didn't matter as it looks like the Merc blew its turbo when our appraiser went out to start it. It had the normal little puff of diesel smoke out the tailpipe to start but then smoke just exploded out the tailpipe from under the car and under the hood/fenders.
The whole lot was pretty much covered in a smoke screen within a few seconds and I was about to make a run for the fire extinguisher in the body shop when they shut the car off and made a run for it. The smoke stopped a few seconds after they shut off the car.
We put a dollar on it and showed her 600 bucks and that made her happy.
A couple of days later I was able to get it started and moved off to the side before the smoke could build up too much from the hot exhaust but the car had absolutely no acceleration anymore. Foot to the floor I couldn't get it past 30 mph and it was knocking so badly that the floorpan was shaking. :surprise:
A wrecker will come take it away next week probably.
I had to look at about 15 "pristine" MB diesels before I bought mine. The rest ran the gamut from totally lame in all 4 legs to "passable but misrepresented". My favorite was the one advertised as "all original", with a totally greasy engine underneath a brand new shiny cylinder head with the wrecking yard's label on the valve cover. Others included one with sheet metal laid over the rusty floors and "sewn" in with thin cable, like a tent patch!! Then there was the usual assortment of collapsed seats, non-working climate controls (no heat either), collapsed rear compensators, a gawd-awful stink in the car from diesel spills, broken window regulators--blah blah.
I used to scoff to see these cars for sale at $6000 dollars but you know, having seen so many rats, maybe a really really good one is worth that to someone.
Outside was ok but some of the trim was coming off and there was some rust forming at the bottom of the driver's side fender.
the latest C&D issue has a piece on a swap of a new deisel MB engine (smae one as in the sprinter even) into a 1990ish 190E 2.6.
major hot rod action, and way better mileage.
I guess the fact that is was MB engineers doing the job might have helped a bit. And it probably had 20K in parts and labor.
But other than that, no problem!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My old MB mechanic had a late 190E 5-speed sportline...he put a 24 valve 300CE engine in it...it wasn't much of a slouch either, but 20mpg would be lucky there.
But I'd be more than happy to pay them ... oh... $7k for it when they are done. :P
Hey, has anybody seen that Brit show Wheeler Dealers? It is on HD. I've seen it a few times in the past and enjoyed it. Then they had a marathon on Sunday. I recorded most of it.
Funny thing I've noticed is that they guy hardly ever makes money on the cars they buy and fix up. And, even when he does, it is not nearly enough to pay for all the labor his partner puts into it. BUT, I love the show. It is the only one I've seen where the mechanic actually gets his hands dirty.
They did a 190 Cosworth. Bought for $2700 (GBP), put another $900 into it, then sold it for $3500. I just watched them work a deal on a '79 Porsche 928. Paint was shot, car had been sitting in a garage for 10 years. Bought for $1600, put $3400 into it (included $2k for a full repaint, and that was the price only because the staff mechanic did all the prep work himself) and sold for $6k. This is the biggest margin he has gotten so far in all the cars I've watched them turn around ... yet if you consider all the time and effort, still not worth it. If you think about it, it is a show exactly about the things we discuss here.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'd probably be interested in that.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I got a real laugh when they did a C4 'vette. Mike (the host) was dogging the electrics in the car (digital dash was out, headlights didn't pop up) and said something to the effect of "thats the way it is with Yank cars, the electrics are always dodgy" Really? A Brit slamming electronics and wiring on a car? I have one word for him: LUCAS.
Again, a good show and sometimes you get to see something that never made it over here like the Lancia Delta Integrale or the Pugeot 205.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
I have the C4 shows and Lancia shows on the DVR still. Haven't gotten to them yet. Also have episodes on a CJ7. I filled up the remainder of my DVR with the marathon. When I flipped through to see if there were episodes i would delete without watching, I just couldn't do it. It seems all the cars they do I have some interest in. Oh ... well ... OK, I could have done without the Monsterfied Suzuki Sidekick. :confuse:
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The 505 was also seen right after the climax of a movie that should be remembered by any child of the 80s
(boy I wish this site could move out of the 90s and adapt modern margins)
People need to resize their photos before posting. There is simple free software that does this in a jiffy, like VSO image resizer that you get from cnet.com.
The Mike guy also has another show set in his dealership. Forget what that one is called, but they always have a spot the lemon segment that is interesting.
The other show, perfect for this thread, is "beetle Crisis". 2 "blokes" are trying to take the rattiest bettle I have every seen and turn it into a show car in their garage (like attached to the house garage). Just saw the episode where some old guy rebuilt the engine out on the side lawn.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Also like Classic Cars which comes on after these on Tuesdays.
Good shows. My favorite is Wheeler Dealers though.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
some of those are interesting, but like on wheeler dealer, they often don't make the money (at auction) they are expecting.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I am on a 7 year old machine now, and I have a big grey space at the edge. People don't use 640x480 or 800x600 anymore.
Speaking of the 505, I also had a Hot Wheels of that car, in dark blue. I had to have that one for my "European" street scene playtime.
2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee L Limited Velvet Red over Wicker Beige
2024 Audi Q5 Premium Plus Daytona Gray over Beige
2017 BMW X1 Jet Black over Mocha
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I've watched all the episodes of Wheeler Dealer and Auto Trader and have enjoyed them all thoroughly.
I particularly enjoyed the episode where they refreshed the Lexus LS400 ... they purchased a set of slightly used tires and wheels (17" or 18", I can't remember which) for something like $750 USD, added Bluetooth and some other cosmetic stuff.
It's always fun to watch Andy (the mechanic) crawl around and under the project cars -- he looks to be about 6'5"!
The only thing that bugs me, and was mentioned above, is that the labor costs aren't calculated. I've always felt that these projects take several weeks to complete, so figure 50-100 labor hours.
I prefer the well-known formula for calculating the profit of "project cars".
Total Cost divided by 2 = approximate market value
:P
It seems that on Wheeler Dealers, they address the major issues - both mechanical and cosmetic - on the cheap where possible. "Patterned" parts, for instance.
It's especially beneficial to the budget to ignore things like authenticity and "perfect fit". Used parts, artful application of paints and dyes and "good enough" overhauls of components (alternator bushings rather than rebuilt alternator, e.g.) rather than actual rebuilds, all help to keep costs down.
If say I were to sell my Subaru (which I'm not---I don't think...) I don't think I could get what I have into it (about $5,000). Too much for a '97 with 160K miles and some dings.
But I have put over 30,000 trouble-free miles on it.
Now, if we took a new Subaru for $25,000 and amortized it over 12 years, those 12 years cost about $21,000 in depreciation, or 13,300 miles a year of wear a year and $1750 per year depreciation (of course, it depreciates more at first and less in following years).
So my Subaru has given me thousands of dollars of value.
Even if I sold it for $3500, I wouldn't think that I "lost" on the car.
BUT....if I had tried to merely "flip it" in a couple of weeks, I would have lost $1500 bucks probably
ON THE OTHER HAND, if I were flipping it, would I have put in a brand new radiator rather than flush out the old one? Would I have put on 4 new tires, or rather scrounged some take-offs from the tire shop? And really, did those cracked CV boots need replacement--they hadn't actually split yet.
I did by the way, re-use the clutch disk--it looks fine.
His typical deal will be to but something for $500 and sell for $1500. He's sitting on a 72 LeSabre now.