Car Buying for Women

michaellno

You might want to check out the Ford Freestyle or Chrysler Pacifica (in FWD form) -- both offer 3 row seating, but without the "bulk" of a traditional SUV.

These are considered "crossover" vehicles that are more car like than SUV's, but don't carry the stigma of the "mommy-mobile" minivan.

My wife absolutely refused to drive a minivan. We owned two 3-row SUV's (Ford Expedition and Ford Explorer) which were perfect for getting our kids through their teenage years - plus, here in Colorado, the 4WD was great for the winter months.

Now that our kids have their own licenses, my wife drives a smaller SUV - a Saturn VUE.

The great thing is that there are so many choices in the market now, with so many niche vehicles available, that it's pretty much impossible to not get what you want. You need to ask yourself the following:

1) how much am I willing to pay? factor insurance into this, as well

2) do I want a new car or will I be OK with a late model used car?

3) how often do I tote all 3 kids around?

4)how often do they bring friends with them?

5) do I take long road trips or mostly around town errand running?

6) is mileage important? You stated that you live in SoCal, where gas is more expensive than most other places in the US.

7) do you prefer the ride and handling of a car, or are you more comforatable with the "high-upedness" (wife's term; don't ask) of an SUV?

Let us know the answers to these questions, then we can start throwing out more specific suggestions.

One thing I can assure you is that the regulars in these forums just love to spend other people's money! but, we also strive to make sure that you are getting what you want.

Good luck!

prophet2

I first purchased a minivan in December '88 shortly after the birth of my son. Traded ("swapped" is more like it) my '87 Legend L coupe for an '89 Mazda MPV V6 with no money out of my pocket. The dealer paid-off my $592 loan balance on the Legend. In February '92, I replaced the MPV (81K miles) with the slightly larger Nissan Quest GXE and kept that rolling till 2001 (165K miles).

In April 2001, I asked my wife what kind of new car she wanted, offering anything she desired. I was certain that she wouldn't nick me for a Benz or BMW as she has always been a "keeper." She answered, "Another van." Practicality at its best. I queried further, "Are you sure? You've had a van for almost 12 years. Don't you want a "regular" car?" "To me, a van is a "regular" car. I like the extra passenger and cargo-carrying space."

So, I sprung the cash for the "top" minivan back then, a 2001 Odyssey EX. We're at 68K now and I'm looking at another vehicle. Either a new Pilot or Odyssey, while KEEPING the '01 Ody (we'll have everyone in the house licensed soon). We have endured the "soccer mom" image and found the minivan great for scouting activities (I was even a "cubmaster" at one time).

stickguy

Actually just went though the same thing with my wife, when we replaced out '99 Quest. She was thinking of moving to a X-over SUV instead of another van. Ended up looking at the Volvo and Highlander, but bought an '05 Ody.

She just decided that the extra room for stuff and people was needed, and it drove nicer than the SUVs. Plus it was cheaper to buy, and had better MPG ratings.

It does drive nice, but I find it too big for normal use. Great fro travelling though.

When this one is ready for replacement (assuming it is reliable to get 10 years out of it), one kid will be out of college, and the other will be in college. At that point, I'm sure we will move to something smaller.

Wife does also like the higher seating position (getting in and the view of the road), so a small X-over is a likely choice. Or something like the Mazda 5.

prophet2

It was February 1993, not 1992, that the MPV was replaced by the '93 Quest.

Stickguy, while we are among those who chose the practicality of the minivan over the SUV, others like my brother-in-law did not. They also had an MPV followed by a Quest, but these were purchased after toying with the idea of getting an SUV. He also had access to an Odyssey at work. They finally traded the Quest for an '01 Acura MDX. My sister drives an '04 TL.

Six months ago, he seriously thought of trading out of the MDX, partly because of the gas prices around here ($2.50+/gallon for premium), but the trade value offered was on the low end. So, no deal.

momx3

LOL... yeah right!

rroyce10

..... Food for thought:

"If" you decide to go towards an SUV .. take a look at Buick Rendezvous, probably an 03 CXL AWD with all the stuff and miles in the 10/15k range, leather, 3rd seat, cold pack, slider, all the junk ... I have a funny feelin' you can pick one up for $20,000 or less ..... lotta bang for the buck .....

Terry.

momx3

ty for the suggestion Terry.. will have to research that one.

explorerx4

3 rows are great. one kid in each row, can't beat that! if you ever carry anyone of any size in the third row, you have to shop around. i'm over 6 feet but can fit in the 3rd row. sat in the 3rd row in a freestar minivan. it was horrible.
when one of my kids was 10, i had them try out the 3rd row in a highlander. all i got was darts from that. we already had the explorer, at that point, so they knew better.
if you don't need 4wd, forget the explorer. gas mileage on the sticker is in the ballpark.

Sylvia

WOMEN AND TRUCKS
One of our journalists is writing an article about women and trucks: why they love their trucks, the decisions that they have to make when purchasing a truck versus a car, and whether or not they’ve encountered discrimination or bias when buying or driving a truck. If you’d like to share your story, please respond to jhelperin@edmunds by Sunday, March 26th. Thanks!

jezebel

Hey there - it's great to see other women who do their research in car shopping. Not to promote stereotypes, but part of the reason why car dealers market to our girlish interests is because women are more likely to think of those things that men. I'll admit it: car colour and appearance are important to me (but quality's more so), I don't know how to drive standard (but I'm hoping to learn), and horsepower/torque figures really don't make a huge difference to me, as long as they're reasonable.

That said, though, regardless of our features of interest when buying a car, we're still not given any credit in the car dealership. A guy can choose a car strictly for its horsepower, and yet know nothing about what the specs really mean (except that higher numbers are better), yet still have an easier time getting a good deal out of a car salesman.

Now here is my problem: I'm about to graduate from grad school, will be starting a decently-paying job in the spring or summer, and thus will be in the market at last to buy my first car. I'm 23 - but often get perceived as younger, since I'm shy and not naturally assertive; I don't have a boyfriend to bring with me; and even if I bring my parents, they're horrible at negotiating (they bought their last car by getting prices from 3 dealers and then paying the price requested by the dealer who offered the lowest price -- no negotiation on their part, simply a dealer who could give a higher figure for their trade-in).

While 23 isn't all that young, I don't know anyone my age who has bought a car with their own money - they've all had cars bought for them by parents, or else their parents did the negotiating for them. Also, since I'm thinking of buying a new car, it might also be a bigger deal than if I were looking to buy used, which is what most younger people do.

So, the question is this: if I go to look for cars, should I go in by myself? Should I bring my parents? (or does this make me look even younger? even though I'll be the one paying - aside from them possibly cosigning on a loan if I can't get the best financing rate).. Do I need to plan hard for a "strategy" to bring into the dealership? On the one hand, I think I need to convince them (through my dress, demeanour, etc) that I am not just a kid but am actually looking to purchase a car; on the other hand, I don't want to try too hard to prove I can afford it - without them gouging me on the price once they realize they can.

Any advice? Should I emphasize certain things, or bring certain people with me? Will dealers trust me to take test-drives??

jezebel

Just an add-on question to the above:

Would it be smarter to try negotiating/building a buying relationship through email first, so that a dealer can't prejudge me by my age, and thus I might have a better chance of getting a fair deal? Would it be useful to pay to get the dealer price for the car, so that I have a stronger bargaining chip? (I'm Canadian, so I can't get the price on Edmunds)...

bobst

While you are waiting to hear from posters who know much more about negotiating than I do, why not read some of the older postings to get some ideas?

bobst

The main thing is to buy a car that you will truly enjoy driving for quite awhile.

Then you will be more inclined to keep it for a long time, so you can get it paid off and save enough money to buy your next car without getting a loan.

Kirstie_H

Part I: GM
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/105204/article.html

jezebel

Ehh, I'm not so convinced about the negativity of loans. A 0% car financing arrangement or even a 2.9 or 3.9% loan isn't exactly argument against buying the next car.. I'd rather put the rest of my money into things that are more expensive (student loans, mortgage downpayment, etc) than worry about how devastating a car loan is.

Not sure if that's really what your point was, but one course in economics has sort of undone the hoity toity mentality my mom passed down to me about saving up to buy things rather than buying on credit. $1 today is not $1 tomorrow whether you finance it today or save it for tomorrow.

ktl238

I am currently in the market for a car for my 45 year old mom, and for myself when I am home for the summers. We are only looking to spend about $10,000, but if necassary can maybe squeeze out $12,000 at the most for a good deal. My precious '86 Accord just died after all these years, and I am looking to replace it with a compact or sub-compact sedan. I am not looking to sell it back any time soon, as I will probobly get to keep it for myself once I graduate college, and I am only just finishing my first year.
 
I obviously need something that will last a while, preferably with good gas milage. Ideally, I'm looking for something kind of sporty-looking thats fun to drive and won't look run-of-the-mill or super dated in 5+ years. I am currently thinking of:
 
1) VW Jetta
-This one is my favorite. Is the 2001 worth getting over a 2002? There is a big price difference.
 
2) Honda Civic
 
3) Toyota Corolla
 
4) Saturn Ion
 
5) Open for suggestions!
 
Thanks!

stickguy

THe Jetta isn't likely to be as reliable. Nice yes, but don't expect the same reliability as the Honda.

Used CIvics are still likely to be pricey, but take a look. Good cars. Same for Corollas, but not as much fun. You just pay a premium price.

Ions? Yuck (my opinion).

Add to your list the Mazda Protege or Pro5. Great cars (IMO the Japanese Jetta), but don't cost as much used as a Civic or Corolla.

ALso don't forget that a Geo/Checy Prism is the same car as a Corolla, but normally costs less.

jlawrence01

If you have had good luck with your currend brand/model, why change??

Don't buy a VW unless you love frustration. No reliability.

suydam

Fun and reliable are sadly seldom combined. The Jetta will be fun but probably not reliable. The Corolla will be reliable but I wouldn't call it fun. That leaves the Civic on your list. Civics were more fun when they still had the double wishbone suspension -- pre-2000? or pre-2001? Since you liked the Accord, you'll probably like the Civic over the Corolla. And I agree, the Mazda Protege is another one to look at -- very reliable and cheaper than a Civic, more fun factor than a Corolla IMHO. I believe the Civic and Protege have a little more room than the pre-2004 Corolla too, which I found to be a tight fit. Best is to drive them and see how you (and Mom) like them. Are you looking for AT or manual? Subaru Impreza and Legacy are also nice, but not always great dealerships so good service can be hard to find. The Legacy is larger than the others but smaller than Camry and Accord, so it's a nice compromise if you're looking for more room.

prophet2

These are under-appreciated hidden "gems" of the automotive world. Traditionally, Mazda has been a little short on the horses when compared with the competition, but the current 160 HP four-banger has bridged the gap.

Because they're not as popular as Civics, you can get them for considerably less money on the used car market. Lot of bang for the buck.

ktl238

Thanks for the advice!

I havn't even done any test-driving and this is already so draining. There is so much out there. I'm so tempted to just say "screw it" and get a '00 Mustang! Ha, but I'm not so sure that is what you would necessarily call a wise investment, as much as I love them!

I think out of everything so far, the hardest choice in budget car shopping is choosing either to go for a late model and get an "affordable" make (i.e. newer Ford Focus) or sacrifice a few years for something a little flashier ( '00 Audi A4 for $10K)

Oh yeah, and technically I am looking for an automatic. Personally, I am a fast learner and wouldn't mind to learn to drive a stick, but I have a hard time seeing my mom try to remember how her manual transmission works. She doesn't do so well with things that don't just work when you push a button.

lhess

from another independent woman who car shops on her own...i've nearly always bought used cars, but i still try to take them back to an authorized dealer for any maintenance or repairs. my sunfires always went back to the pontiac dealer, my eclipse to the mitsubishi dealer....you get it. try to find a dealer in which you like and TRUST the service department. I think women are less likely to get taken advantage of when they pick a reputable dealer and stick with them. It makes going for that "couple years older, but lookin' so much better car" a little easier. It would even be worth it to have that dealer check out the car before you buy it. Make sure they know you're gonna be a regular customer if things work out on it. Last piece of advice - buy what you truly like and can afford!!

isellhondas

You remove the Audi from your short list. You have no idea how much trouble these can be!

cj5

Have u had any replies to this email? I'm in a similar situation. I look young and could use as much advice as possible as to how to handle going in to negotiate the purchase of a new car.

bobst

The first thing is to decide exactly what kind of car you want. If you get the car you want, you will be more inclined to keep it longer, thereby saving more money.

The second thing is to research the price. Edmunds has a DG for that.

Then learn what options the dealer may sell (gap insurance, mop n' glow, choke n' croak, rust n' dust) and decide if you want them.

lhess

as bobst said, know your stuff. If you decide you want car ABC because it fits your needs and your budget, know more about it than the salesperson does when you walk on the lot. Know the "guy stuff" too. How much horsepower does it have, what kind of torque, and all this is available on the internet. Be forceful enough to show your salesperson you do know what you want and you know what you're doing (and you can still be nice and polite - remember the basics).

If you are not good at numbers or have problems keeping up with fast talkers, take someone else with you and ask questions of your salesperson. If they don't give straight answers - WALK. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR LOOKS DIFFERENT ON PAPER THAN WHAT YOU UNDERSTOOD WHEN DISCUSSING IT.

My most important piece of advice is: Remember, when you think you've found the perfect car, it's not the only one out there. Don't let your want for a car put you in a bad money deal. If you can afford the time, get the numbers from your salesperson and take them home to look at them. Plug them into programs on the internet to see what kind of payments you come up with. Know what a 1 or 2% increase or decrease in the interest rate means for your payment. You can not have too much information.

I am a woman and have been buying my cars independently for the past 7 years. I've learned some hard lessons, but good lessons. Car-buying doesn't have to involve torture and misery and you should walk away from any place that makes you uncomfortable.

femdiva

Do your research on invoice vs. dealer price and have this information for negotiation. Take a friend, female or male, who will support what you want and who is willing to be the "bad guy" if necessary. (See below about when and how to just walk away.) Do not talk price until you have found the car you want, with the extras you want. Do not let them push you into telling them what you want your "payment to be." (Agree on a price, then discuss financing or lease. Your payment can be low monthly but the total price way too high.) Pick a price between what the invoice is, sticker (or what people are paying in your location, if it's higher or lower). Find out what they will "take" initially, and offer a few thousand LESS that your bottom line. Which should be somewhat less than the dealer's initial "offer." Explain that you realize they need to make a profit and that you don't begrudge them that, but that you want a fair price. Bargain first with free extras, then once they have come down a bit on the price, move up a bit yourself. Put a time limit on the entire negotiation and stand up and leave to go to "an appointment" if the "negotiation drags out too long. (This is where the friend comes in: "I'm sorry, we have another appointment and need to leave, get the sales person's phone number and continue this later.") They will attempt to talk, talk, talk until you are tired, it's 11 p.m. and you just will agree. Do not let them inflate the price by giving "free" interior cleaning or under coating or other stuff you would never choose and pay for. If the car is in demand or doesn't have a lot of options or a very large price over invoice, there may not be much bargaining room. In that case you may want to get a quote from one dealer and leave and call a few other dealers and ask them to "beat the price quote." If you have available the on line car buying serivces, you could get a quote that way first and then go into the dealer. Hope this helps, good luck.

femdiva

VW JEtta is way over priced; (the new Beetles are great cars but double your price range.). Honda or Toyota will never let you down. As you already know about your deceased Honda.

femdiva

Not everyone buys cars and keeps them several years. I see lease payments as a fixed cost and always having an under-warranty car that costs near to nothing to maintain and is 100++% reliable. So I don't understand your confusion.

rroyce10

......... Aaah, have you been to Paragraph school yet..?

I'm going blind over here .....................................

Terry.

isellhondas

Ah...yeah...PARAGRAPHS...thanks

A lot of info here...If you do bring a friend along as a "first baseman" please make sure that person isn't a jerk. I've had first basemen literally cause the loss of a sale as they have dispensed their "expert" advise.

When my customer returned sans the jerk friend, she discovered, sadly, that the used car of her dreams had bben sold to someone else.

And, please,,,don't try to outsmart us with the "appointment" story. We've heard that one many times.

It really doesn't have to be hard.

steine13

"[..] it's 11 p.m. and you just will agree."

If you ever find yourself at a dealership at 23:00 and you don't work there, you're doing it wrong. Buying a car is not difficult, it really isn't.

This next comment isn't directed at you, but is a general observation: People will forever concentrate on getting the best price, rather than taking the time to really figure out what will work best for them.

I'll pay fair market value on a 2003 Taurus before I pay "trade-in value" on a 2003 Neon.
I'll buy a new Civic before I buy a 3-year-old one for $2,500 less.

-Mathias

researchqueen

Check out this three-part series:

What Are Automakers Doing for Women?

Part I: GM

Part II: Toyota

Part III: Volvo

lhess

woman is to teach their dealers to treat me as an intelligent, up-right-walking human being that is smart enough to know about engines and transmissions and recognize the fact that I can negotiate my own fair price AND sign the contract. ALL WITHOUT A MAN AT MY SIDE.

ncmom

"ALL WITHOUT A MAN AT MY SIDE"

Its sad but true - I've been car shopping for a few weeks, and my husband wants to be left out of it. Whatever I pick is fine with him. So, I went to several dealers to see the cars by myself or with my daughter, to check out the cars on my short list. Treated nicely, but not seriously.

However, when I took my 5 year old son (not a man yet, but still a male), many of the dealers were very attentive - but to my son, not me! At Honda, Toyota, Lexus, and Dodge, we got the same reaction. They walked up and shook his hand and started showing him all the features that he would get - cup holders, distance from his sister in the back seat, how easy it was to work the windows, and get into the third row seats.

To give them the benefit of the doubt, they could simply have thought they were being cute, or that I was bringing him along to see if he liked it. :confuse:

audia8q

I know this may sound crazy....but you would be amazed how many 5 year olds play a big role in the purchase. Not directly but in an indirect way. If you sell the child you usually sell the parents.

I'm not making excuses for your dealer and they should be selling you the car not the child but I understand where they are coming from.

steine13

"[..[up-right-walking human being that is smart enough to know about engines and transmissions and recognize the fact that I can negotiate my own fair price[..]"

Yeah, but most women can't. I'd say not 1 woman in 20 "knows about engines" or cares to. My wife certainly doesn't, but she knows enough to rely on me for that.

As far as "fair price", most men can't do that either. And it's getting so most men can't even drive a stick shift... the days of technical knowledge being taken for granted by males are over.

" AND sign the contract. ALL WITHOUT A MAN AT MY SIDE".

I think that the problem may be that the salesman knows with only one spouse present, he's got another person to sell. Male or female. However, bring along the 5-year-old, now there's a good chance it's a single mom he's talking to, in which case he just needs to sell the people he's got in front of him.

I think it's not so different when a guy comes in alone to pick out a minivan... a good salesperson knows he better not fill in the color until the guy comes back with the wife...

Not every situation fits within the stereotypes of "women can't get respect at car dealerships". Though I'm sure that happens a lot, too.

-Mathias

lhess

there is no spouse to sell to. A quick glance at my ring finger by an astute salesperson will likely lead to that conclusion. (in fact, the scars from wearing one for 9 years have even disappeared!) I usually tell the salespeople right off that I am the buyer of the car, it will be in my name only, and it only needs to make me happy to buy it!! They will still address my boyfriend (if he insists on tagging along - yuck!) and I have walked away from plenty of salespeople for that reason. I may still buy the car, but I go look for someone who learned the basics of respect in elementary school.

I agree, most men and women are pretty much clueless when it comes to cars, but I make myself fairly clear when I'm on the lot or on the phone with a salesperson. I know what I want, I know what I want to pay and I know that i'm good for that deal if I can get it. Most salespeople still can't adjust and sell to ME.

PS I can even drive a stick and currently own one!!

bobst

"I know what I want, I know what I want to pay"

Well, if you know what you want to pay, then I suggest you skip the sales person. Just walk up to the sales manager and make your offer, preferably written. That's what we did when we bought our lovely Acura RSX.

Why do you need the sales person to 'adjust' to you? Do you ask the same thing of the cashier at McDonalds when you get a cheeseburger?

lhess

Any salesperson (and a McDonald's cashier is not a salesperson) who is good at what they do can adjust to a customers needs. If joe blow walks in and all he knows is that he wants a commuter car that gets good gas mileage, it's reliable and cheap to buy and operate, then your not gonna waltz him over the SUV department and try to sell him a Suburban. that's called adjusting to a customers needs. If bob blow walks on the lot and has not one single clue of what cars are even available to him, you'd sell differently to him than you would a "gearhead" who knows every technical issue about every car on your lot.

I personally think it's a little arogant to pass up the salespeople and go straight to the sales manager. The salespeople are out there working to earn a living and some of them are very good at what they do. My last salesman was great and I was more than happy to know that he got a commission off my deal - he deserved it.

bobst

You were complaining about car sales people in your earier postings, so I thought it might be a good idea if you simply bypassed the sales person like we did. It worked for us.

Since you know exactly what you want and how much you are willing to pay, what so you need a sales person for?

prophet2

Lhess must be new around here and doesn't realize the sage advice you've been dishing out all these years.

In many dealerships, the sales manager will assign the deal to a reliable sales rep to handle the paperwork and delivery. The sales manager has many other duties to perform.

lhess

to post about a specific issue (car buying for women in this instance) in which I do have an opinion and experience and not have egotistical MEN, who don't know what it's like to buy a car as a woman, make a bunch of smartass remarks!!

I do realize that the sales manager will hand off my deal to a salesperson, but if someone is gonna get a chunk of my money as a commission, I will pick that person myself.

Kirstie_H

Let's check the hostility, even if it wasn't intentional. People have different experiences, and different styles of purchasing. This topic is intended for conversation about how the experience has/does differ for women.

bobst

In general, do you truly enjoy the car buying experience?

no0b

I just wanted to look at used cars in the parking lot to see what they had and not get hassled by dealers. I hate when you can't look at cars without them coming out and going on and on about them. I tend to avoid dealerships because of it. So I thought I had a good plan one day stopping by on my way home during a thunderstorm figuring they wouldn't want to come out. lol. I looked around before getting out of my car to make sure there were no salesmen standing around like vultures waiting to attack. I walked up to a few cars and noticed there was NOTHING on the cars, no prices, no descriptions.. nothing. That pissed me off, I hate that and was about to leave. I was out there for about 10 seconds and then got attacked by a salesman who must've ran to get to me. He looked out of breath like he just ran down a flight of stairs.

Since I was busted, I went with it and asked a few questions. He pulls this rolled up piece of paper out of his back pocket and starts reading off the prices. I thought that was a bit odd. I then agreed to go inside with him and listen to what the specials were and everything. After we sat down and he was giving me quotes, that's when I noticed it. His wedding band was on the wrong hand. There was still a mark on his finger where it should've been. lol. He couldn't have taken it off too long before he approached me.

I guess I was supposed to buy a car from him because he looked single. :confuse:

He was a nice guy, but like most men, just can't take a hint or NO for an answer. I had no intentions of buying a car that day, I told him that from the beginning and said I didn't want to waste his time. But he kept insisting and insisting, probably because there was a storm so he knew he wasn't getting any other potential customers anyway. Everytime he knew I was trying to leave, he'd start a whole new subject. What was supposed to be a 10 minute stop lasted for about 2hours.

The quotes he gave me were pretty average from my research. But I wonder if one of the reasons he was afraid of me leaving was because he knew I could probably get something cheaper at the other place. Hmm. I think his ego was mostly hurt. But I do give the guy credit for not resorting to flirting.

bobst

I have almost always enjoyed talking with car sales people. The last time we had an unenjoyable experience with a sales person was in 1973.

Here is a thought. You visit the car dealer to get information, not to give information to the dealer. Therefore, you do not have to respond to any of their questions. If they ask you a question, ignore it.

If they don't like you behavior (as has happened to me), they will leave you alone.

Don't let them control your actions either. If they ask you to follow them, refuse to do it.

If they start talking and you are not interested in what they have to say, then ignore them. It is OK to walk away when they are talking to you.

Remember, they want your money much more than you want their car, so you are in control of the car shopping experience.

steine13

"His wedding band was on the wrong hand. There was still a mark on his finger where it should've been. lol. He couldn't have taken it off too long before he approached me.

I guess I was supposed to buy a car from him because he looked single. "

I do this all the time. I have skinny, bony fingers, and the ring digs into my pinkie. So I shift it between the left and right hand. And I don't even sell cars...

Not everything that goes on at a car dealership is sinister. Sometimes it's just strange.

-Mathias

steine13

"[..] and not have egotistical MEN, who don't know what it's like to buy a car as a woman, make a bunch of smartass remarks!! "

(i) I had a suspicion that any topic that included gender in the title was going to be trouble.

(ii) Why are we "egotistical"? We're here sharing, same as you. And while we don't know what it's like, we can try -- as I did -- to come up with an explanation why some salespeople react to women the way they do.

We all stereotype to some extent, some of us are just smarter or more subtle about it...
Some people, I'm sure, live every day as if it was their first. But that'd get old...

-Mathias

cadillacmike

"In many dealerships, the sales manager will assign the deal to a reliable sales rep to handle the paperwork and delivery. The sales manager has many other duties to perform. "

Other duties? Like what - trying to figure out ways to milk another thousand from customers? :P