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Hey, we just went through something like that. OK, I wasn't looking at a Boxster, but I was comparing an MPV with the Mazda6.
Anyway, I think the Avalon vs. Passat comparison is valid. I'll admit it is a bit unusual. Basically, it's between a fun car with a spotty (at best) reliability history vs. a less exciting, but (most likely) very reliable one. Tough part is knowing what is most important to that person. In this forum, unless someone's Passat experience has been a total nightmare, the VW would be the logical, overwhelming choice.
When is the v6 available, is it out yet? Besides the engine, any other option differences? I tried the 2.0t and was disappointed with the mostly manual seat-- dealer told me that was the only way they had it. VW website is beyond confusing when it comes to which options are available.
I guess i'm trying to rationailize in my mind as to which one I should go for with regard to the ability to service the Passat (closest dealer is 95 miles away) & with Toyota (closest dealer is 50 miles away).Can regular fuel be used for the 2006 Passat 2.0 and will it affect the engine?
I do like the Passat driving feel, exterior and interior looks. Thanks!
Another nice feature that I haven't seen listed anywhere is the fully flat fold down and locking (as in with a key) rear seats which would easily provide enough room for me to stash any of my bikes so that I can go out for a quick ride at lunch. I talked with a saleswoman for a bit and I told her that I was actually looking for a car with a manual transmission and she said, "Have you heard of our Tiptronic transmission?"
"Yes, it doesn't have three pedals. I want a REAL manual transmission."
Here she sort of surprised me and said, "Yeah, I know what you mean, that's how I like my cars too. Unfortunately we only have Tiptronic cars so far and we aren't officially expecting any 6-Speed models in until November, however we got these in early and so I'm guessing that we might get some in in October."
I asked her about combining a car with a manual transmission and a leather interior, sans any required satellite goo-gahs and she told me that she had no idea what the option guidelines were going to be on the manual transmission cars. She's going to call me when they start coming in. Who knows, this car might yet be a contender.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Were it that I lived too far from at least two different dealerships of a particular marque, I'd have to think hard and fast as to whether or not I'd want to be a captive customer. If they treated my and my family like royalty, then no problem, otherwise, forget that make and move on. No competition just seems to breed contempt, and arrogance, two of my least favorite things. I feel for you.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Wow! Yours has a SUNROOM? That IS a big car!!!
speaker looking thing hmm,i have to check.
also,do u know where there might be a noise when i move the car from the parking lot,i mean when the car is stationary ,when i realese the brake,or rotate the steering wheel,there a rattling/squeaking noise,i thk this might be the suspesion,
but don;t know for sure,also how much milage is ur car giving,and when do these cars start giving normal mileage ,which is mentioned on the sticker
i belive for the passat it is 21/31 isn;t it,thanks and do let me know
vW
Now there are a few of you out there with the new 2006. Let us in on how it drives. How is the power with the 2.0t automatic? C'mon, be a pal and tell us if it's worth it.
DL
DL
You are busting chops........right ?????
Seriously , your main puchasing point of a motor vehicle is a doggone stereo system ??? I was 16 once too, but obviously have matured to the point where the audio fidelity of a motor vehicle comes kinda last in the overall puchasing scheme.
The Avalon beats them both with 41.3/40.9 :surprise:
Best Regards,
Shipo
The technology works great -- but boy is it fragile. I have less than 5,000 miles on my Audi and am on my third keyless starter "buttons." It is a 10 minute fix and they keep the parts in stock -- maybe it costs $750 bucks 'cause they know they'll need to replace the switches ever so often.
My main issue with this feature is the key is STILL HUGE -- I hate to carry the key in my pocket and you can't lock the car with the key in it, so you have to keep the key in your pocket. My routine is to take the key off my desk, put it in my pocket, walk to the car, get in the car, push the button, take the key out of my pocket since it is not at all svelte and drive off.
For this I paid $750 and it has been replaced twice already?
What is so advanced about push button start?
I am 54, my father had two Hudson Hornet cars when I was growing up -- they had pushbutton start. Some cars had a key hole AND you inserted the key, turned it to the ON position then pushed the button.
When asked, "why pushbutton start?" The answer is "because we can."
It ought to be free -- knowing what I know now, there is certainly very little, if any, benefit (or detriment) to Advanced Key.
VW will certainly adopt this technology and charge big time for it, "because they can."
On the other hand, I have voice command of CD, Navigation, Radio and Telephone -- it was $350 and it is a STEAL at that price.
The reason?
Sitting behind the wheel of a new Audi A6 (and one would assume soon a Passat once MMI makes its way there) one has 81 buttons, switches and "controls" that can be articulated in some way (not including the dials and pointers) to control the car. Voice activation of the PHONE ALONE certainly will delay YOUR governing body du jour from banning cell phone use (which I would vote in favor of, if the driver does not have voice activation, BTW.)
Anyway, keyless start is cool, but I can take it or leave it -- for $750, I can buy more gas instead.
:shades:
If your definition of "maturity" is the condoning of a low-end audio system, good for you. The rest of us who aren't so tone-deaf actually appreciate auto manufacturers who respect and share our appreciation of high-end audio enough to actually provide us with it as standard or at least available equipment, unlike VW (in Canada).
The fact that more and more manufacturers are providing their buyers with quality sound systems suggests there is a growing perception among them, and rightly so, that this feature is of increasing importance to discriminating car buyers who have grown weary of spending the additional time and money to take their new rides post-purchase to an after-market stereo shop for a much-needed transplant.
As for you, enjoy your paper cones.
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I did not have time to take a test drive.
All in all, I liked the new car, particularly the greater roominess, in-dash CD changer, storage bins and cubbyholes and decent cupholders.
I did not like the cheapening of the interior materials compared to my 2000 1.8T GLS. There was a lot of cheap plastic around the doors and armrests, console and lower dash, and very cheesy looking and flimsy plastic inserts the width of the dash and around the radio and climate controls. I also noticed the same cheaper headliner and pillar material that were in a 2005 loaner the last time I had mine serviced. I think the dashboard insert was supposed to look like carbon fiber, it just looked and felt cheap. The materials on my 2000 are much better in appearance and to the touch.
Hope this help. Thats why they can claim 14 ways power seat.
to put your wippers in the winter position is such a simple task:
1-insert the key to the on position (not all the way in to start the engine)
2-pull it back a notch from the on position and tap the wipper blade arm down one time (the blades are going to move upward and hold there position)
that is all!
danke
Glad to hear there is hope with the Passat/Jetta windshield wiper problem. It would be great if someone with a manual could quote what it says.
I thought I'd read that VW would 'not' be introducing a TDI Passat in America this year. However, my local dealer tells me it will be out sometime this Fall. Are they simply out of touch, or will there be a diesel?
I drove the Jetta TDI the other night, and was reasonably impressed. The body was a little bit noisier than I'd had expected (not due to the diesel), so I'm wondering if I should hold off for a few months...
the best buy would be the outcomming model,dealers in general have still a fair amount of stock on 05...just choose a dealer with a larger amount of unit and you will see is eyes wide open of joy when you tell him your interested in a tdi passat!
buy the way with the 05 passat your buying yhe last one that were built ...so potentially the best of the last 4 years or so.
Short answer: No.
Long answer: It will cost you more money to run regular.
The fact is that most modern engines, especially blown engines like the 2.0T have an On Board Computer (OBC) that can control many elements of the engine that deal with the combustion of the fuel (spark timing, boost pressure, valve timing, fuel injector timing, fuel injector duration). The goal of the OBC is to keep the combustion process on that knife edge between not hot enough (lower efficiency, lower power and lower mileage) and too hot (detonation, rapid valve wear and if left unchecked, broken parts). Given that the 2.0T is a blown high compression engine, it is absolutely optimized for high octane fuel, and if given less than that the OBC will retard the ignition timing, back off on the amount of boost the turbocharger can deliver and generally yield measurably worse power and fuel economy.
Back when regular gasoline was $1.20 per gallon and premium was $1.40, a case could have been made to the effect that since regular cost roughly 14% less than premium, and since a number of tests that I've read suggest that by using regular in an engine designed for premium would reduce fuel economy by only about 10%, you would be saving money by using regular. Now however, it's a different story, the gap between regular and premium is still about twenty cents, however, that equates to not even a 7% difference.
If you have a 2.0T and you want to save money, use Premium fuel.
Best Regards,
Shipo
But over 12,000 to 15,000 annual miles, it has been demonstrated that a car with a compression ratio that essentially requires premium that is run on octane lower than is specified will have increased fuel costs.
Why would you want to pay MORE for lower octane gas.
The car, if kept long enough, will probably have some additional expense items that could be tied back to the lower grade fuel too -- and unless you have maintenance items covered by the mfg (and even then if they suspected you did something that shortened the life of some components they would be not in favor of paying out for "your" behavior) once again why would you want to increase the operating cost of your car?
If you wanted a car that drank regular juice as its regular (no pun intended) cocktail, why not buy one of those rather than a vehicle that is designed to run on premium and automatically "saves the engine from damage" if you put a lower grade in it?
I read these questions all over the Internet and even in some of the car magazines -- the Premium vs Regular question/discussion is everywhere and the answers are almost always the same -- "it is a false economy to use regular or mid grade in a car who's engine was designed for premium."
False economy -- nets out to: it will cost more to use the lower grade than any 10 to 20 cent price differential will ever save.
If you use 20 gallons per week (or about 1,000 gallons per year) the differential is $200. These cars are many many many times more expensive. What is up with the notion that $200 saved in the price of gas when it is considered that it will cost MORE than $200 due to decreased economy and increased maintenance costs is even worth considering?
Lighting my fireplace with paper money makes just about as much sense as buying a car than NEEDS premium and choosing to run it on regular.
But, that's just my opinion and the opinion of just about anyone and everyone who writes on this subject. :surprise:
Sorry, I got a little breathless there.
Have a great Labor Day weekend. . .hmmm let's see, 30 gallons of gas, $3.29 per gallon (that's up $.50 in one day), oh heck, round it up to $4.00 per gallon for rip off along the Interstate "got you where we want you" dealers and my trip to Pittsburgh and back now costs $120 in gas alone.
Ouch, ouch, ouch!
Thank you sir, may I have another. . . .?
Shoulda got a 2.0T.
It’s like if you ate a box of donuts, you won’t feel great, and it won’t kill you, but if you do it everyday you’ll have consequences.
http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=103018
The fact that it '"only" amounts to a few dollars more per fill is IMHO kind of a stupid argument....Yeah I know, if it costs say 4 dollars more per fill and you only fill up once a week, thats just $200 dollars a year. Chump change. It's just paper afterall might as well spend it on gas as anything else.
The new Chevy HHR 4 cyclinder runs on premium too....now THATS engineering!
"Why would you want to put regular in? It will save you less than $2 per fill up."
This is only a true statement in terms of the cost of the gasoline for a certain quantity.
It is a false statement when "economy" is taken into account.
If one fills up and the cost is (here in Cincinnati the price "increase" over mid grade is Mobile = $.05 other brands = $.08 - $.011.)
So if your car requires 15 gallons and the differential between the lowest price and the highest price is fully $.20 (regular vs premium, i.e.), the extra cost is $3.00.
However, one tank of gas, a few hundred miles, is NOT what we are talking about.
Over the span of many tankfuls and thousands of miles, a car so designed for premium will have higher "operational" costs (and that includes gasoline) if regular gas (or even mid grade) is used instead of the fuel it was designed for.
There is a great deal of evidence that supports this -- and it is easily accessible via a "Google or two or three" -- it is MORE expensive to use regular in a car specifically designed to use premium.
The fact that such and such a car with X hundred horsepower can "successfully" use regular is not somehow transferable to the Passat, BMW, Mercedes, etc. that come from their maker with an ignition/computer set up AND compression ratio so designed for premium juice.
The fact that the engine management electronics compensate for the tendency of a car that requires premium to have pre-ignition (ping) by retarding the spark only further substantiates the false economy notion.
The car that requires premium when run on regular will use more fuel to create the required power, indeed it will pollute more, it will require shorter service intervals and a partridge in a pear tree.
At 1,000 gallons per year, the cost would be $200 for "Premium vs Regular" (assuming the difference is fully $.20 -- often in Cincinnati it is NOT that great.)
Over the span of miles and time one normally considers, the cost of using regular can be more than an additional $200 per year.
Here is one final thought/suggestion: again, using the wonderful power of the Internet, examine the how's and why's of engine design with an eye toward "why" some engines are designed from the get-go to use Premium gasoline.
Note: performance, longentivity, maintenance, pollution, etc, during your perusal of such research.
In order to avoid "absolutes" I will conclude by saying that there are virtually no benefits of any kind to using a "below specified grade" fuel in a modern internal combustion engine.
:confuse:
Picking a nit here... The term "Pre-Ignition" refers to when the Air/Fuel mixture spontaneously combusts from internal engine heat sources (carbon deposits, extremely low grade fuel, or WAY too high compression), before the spark plug sparks (hence the name "Pre-Ignition"). If an engine is suffering from pre-ignition it is highly unlikely that it will last long enough for anyone to hear any symptomatic noise (pinging or otherwise) before it lunches itself.
"Pinging" or "Detonation" occurs when pockets of "End Gas" (the last isolated small pockets of unburned air and fuel) spontaneously combust due to low grade fuel, early spark timing, too high of a compression ratio and/or too much boost. Normally it occurs as some combination of at least two of those factors. In this scenario the spark plug(s) does(do) its(their) thing(s) and ignite(s) the fuel and air closest to the spark plug(s). With that(those) portion(s) set to burning the fuel should combust as in a continuous "Woosh" (not "Bang"). However, if the fuel was set to burning too soon given the factors of fuel grade, compression ratio, and/or the boost pressure, the pressure/heat from the rapidly expanding gasses inside the combustion chamber will be too much for the last remnants of the air/fuel mixture (the End-Gas) to resist, and instead of having the flame front "Woosh" right on through said remnamts of air and fuel, that last little bit goes "Bang".
Best Regards,
Shipo
However, would you say that you would advise the use of of Premium fuel in a car desgined for Premium for the GENERAL reason that it indeed a false economy
Errr, I'm not exactly sure I can get my tired brain around that language (I'm a little tired this morning, I'm thinking that I can blame Bobby Genepri for that. ;-) )
Having said that, I would only advocate using any lower grade fuel in an engine designed for Premium if (and only if) the only available fuel is of a lower grade and you are certain that your remaining fuel supply cannot be stretched enough to allow you to reach a fueling point that has Premium. Said another way, I believe that you and I are basically singing from the same page of the song book.
Here is a link to a recent post of mine that concluded with, "If you have a 2.0T and you want to save money, use Premium fuel.":
Volkswagen Passat 2006+" #714, 1 Sep 2005 4:29 pm
Best Regards,
Shipo
There are, therefore, no savings for a Passat 2.0T on regular rather than premium -- this point (that several of us [most?] agree upon) needs to be stated and understood by those asking the question "is it OK to put regular in my Passat even though it says in the manual that I should use premium?"
The straight answer, although perhaps a little counter-intuitive, is "yes" you can put regular gas in the Passat -- if you want to spend MORE money for the operation of your car.
Since I can only assume that folks ask this question legitimately and sincerely in an effort to understand IF there is an economy (that makes sense) to using regular, I think we (those who are in agreement with the point) should inform (educate, perhaps?) these folks of the consequences of taking such actions.
Here is a brief story that may shed some light on how my pea brain works:
There is a type of fire that is "fueled" by water -- if you spray water on the fire, that is, it intensifies and spreads. Although this is counter-intuitive, one would need to be aware, if one was fighting this kind of fire, NOT to put water on this fire as a way to fight the fire.
When I first found out that my Audi would accept (essentially without blowing the engine up) regular fuel (I read this on another blog), I immediately went to my Audi service manager and asked for an explanation of the consequences of doing so.
When I was given the "false economy" explanation, I immediately had a light go on that told me to use regular gas in my 4.2L Audi V8 engine ONLY if I wanted to spend MORE money.
Subsequently, I began researching "how things work" and found out the benefits and "why's" of high compression engines (and it is, generally, those engines that NEED higher octane fuels).
Recently, I was told (I have not vetted this, yet) that at least one Mercedes model recommends 100,000 mile oil change intervals. I was told that the reason this is possible is a combination of factors: high compression ratio (therefore high octane "super clean" a.k.a. "Toptier" fuels) very high burn temperatures inside the cylinders (which burn the impurities before they have a chance to "impregnate" the oil) and alloy cylinders that include titanium.
Again, being told this and knowing that it is true have not been investigated by yours truly; but, like the fuel discussion (which I have vetted) and the water as an accelerant example, I can understand that this is a legitimate question.
Of course, I probably have clouded the issue, when my intent was to clarify.
Suffice it to say: Passat's 2.0T (and most certainly the 3.6 V6, too) will benefit from using premium gas -- AND cost less doing so than if regular gas is used. :shades: