Volkswagen Passat 2006+

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Comments

  • jc9799jc9799 Member Posts: 70
    Kinda like looking at a mini van versus a Porsche Boxster in my mind -- perhaps both good vehicles, but hardly competition in terms of feature and function.

    Hey, we just went through something like that. OK, I wasn't looking at a Boxster, but I was comparing an MPV with the Mazda6.

    Anyway, I think the Avalon vs. Passat comparison is valid. I'll admit it is a bit unusual. Basically, it's between a fun car with a spotty (at best) reliability history vs. a less exciting, but (most likely) very reliable one. Tough part is knowing what is most important to that person. In this forum, unless someone's Passat experience has been a total nightmare, the VW would be the logical, overwhelming choice.
  • vwdriver2vwdriver2 Member Posts: 54
    I guess it depends on where you live and what the market is like for that particular car. Here in Illinois..it looks like there is a surplus of Passats..each dealer i go to has like over 15 sitting on their lots..so maybe they just had to get rid of it. The dealer told me that he didn't want to make this deal, but he had to move some cars off his lot so..he went for it...I guess I got lucky...but if you look at the TMV price listed on this website..it says others are paying $26,462 for 2.0t with pkg#1 and winter package...so compared to that..you got a good deal...I paid about the same for the extended warranty due to the turbo surcharge..but the finance guy was cool and said he would throw in an extra 10,000 years..0 deductible...I guess it really depends on what dealer you go to..some dealers are horrible while others are fantastic...!!! By the way, do you know what those two speaker looking things are near the sunroom control are for..the one on the right has an opening..I looked in the manual..but it doesn't say..
  • vwdriver2vwdriver2 Member Posts: 54
    Does anyone know what the two speaker looking things located on the sunroom switch are for?? There is nothing in the manual in regards to their function..also..why did they put the telephone button on my steering wheel? In the manual..all it says is "depends on model." I have the 2.0T with pkg.#1, is it equipped with blue tooth technology???
  • arrosenarrosen Member Posts: 22
    Bluetooth is not availble yet on the 2.0, and will likely not be available as a standard option on the 3.6. It will likely be a dealer installed option, that you may be able to add to your 2.0T once it is released in the US (you can find out mor about it on the UK VW site). The telephone button is supposedly to activate the bluetooth. The speakers next to the sunroof button are also supposedly for the bluetooth telephone/microphone.
  • rwatsonrwatson Member Posts: 144
    I contacted the dealer in Baton Rouge the other day via email. Told him what I wanted (manual) and he replied saying he was expecting one in in a couple days and was so eager to set "an appointment" up for us. Poor bugger thought I was going to go for the bait. You see, they like to lure you in long distance and then try to sell you an automatic with 2,000 pounds of options on it, because they know you want to drive a new one home after driving so far (140 miles). Nope. I'm a little bit wiser these days to those tricks. I wrote him back and said for him to contact me when he had one in. Told him I didn't want either satellite option either. Hmm. Bet they have plenty with the cold weather package (Central Louisiana) on the lot. Ha ha! Just wait and see: I'll get what I'm wanting. Well, actually, I want my 97 Jetta GLX back again. Too bad the wife won't budge on that one. Twas a sad day when I traded her off (the GLX that is).
  • ncflyerncflyer Member Posts: 28
    Does VW plan to move more towards a keyless start? I gotta say the key setup is cockamainy. I just have a bad feeling about such a rube goldberg design lasting the 10 years or so I would plan to own such a car. Only thing good about it would be if they are going to a keyless start and that's why they are using something so silly for now. What's wrong with keys that have been used in cars for decades and decades is beyond me.

    When is the v6 available, is it out yet? Besides the engine, any other option differences? I tried the 2.0t and was disappointed with the mostly manual seat-- dealer told me that was the only way they had it. VW website is beyond confusing when it comes to which options are available.
  • surjn98surjn98 Member Posts: 34
    Didn't mean to create a controversy as I was just looking at 2 separate cars. I do agree they are 2 both very different types and personalities.
    I guess i'm trying to rationailize in my mind as to which one I should go for with regard to the ability to service the Passat (closest dealer is 95 miles away) & with Toyota (closest dealer is 50 miles away).Can regular fuel be used for the 2006 Passat 2.0 and will it affect the engine?
    I do like the Passat driving feel, exterior and interior looks. Thanks!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I was passing by a VW dealership in the midst of a heavy traffic jam, so I decided that since I wasn't going anywhere anyway, I'd stop in for a "Look-See". For starters, for the money that car is a very nice piece of machinery and damn fine value. Coming out of a 530i as I am, I was compelled to make that comparison, and I gotta tell you, this car seems to be bigger in every dimension (I checked once I got home and that last statement is almost true), especially the overall legroom. The E39 530i had 41.7" front and 34.2" rear totaling 75.9" of legroom while the new Passat has 41.4" front and 37.7" rear totaling 79.1". I was surprised that the difference was only 3.2" because it seems like a lot more than that. Of course that is still 3" shy of the overall legroom in my old 1995 Passat GLX which measured in at 45.1"/37.0" for a total of 82.1".

    Another nice feature that I haven't seen listed anywhere is the fully flat fold down and locking (as in with a key) rear seats which would easily provide enough room for me to stash any of my bikes so that I can go out for a quick ride at lunch. I talked with a saleswoman for a bit and I told her that I was actually looking for a car with a manual transmission and she said, "Have you heard of our Tiptronic transmission?"

    "Yes, it doesn't have three pedals. I want a REAL manual transmission."

    Here she sort of surprised me and said, "Yeah, I know what you mean, that's how I like my cars too. Unfortunately we only have Tiptronic cars so far and we aren't officially expecting any 6-Speed models in until November, however we got these in early and so I'm guessing that we might get some in in October."

    I asked her about combining a car with a manual transmission and a leather interior, sans any required satellite goo-gahs and she told me that she had no idea what the option guidelines were going to be on the manual transmission cars. She's going to call me when they start coming in. Who knows, this car might yet be a contender.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rwatsonrwatson Member Posts: 144
    Shipo, bless your gizzard! I live so far from a dealer, we have to make plans for it. I'm starting to think I will hold off foe a few months on this one. Besides I have a cracked windshield on my 04 wagon and I hate taking one to the dealer like that. I just dread the goose-chase with the VW people. :sick: It's pretty sad when you are excited about a new car and are sick of the dealer. Back once upon a time it was nice to go see the dealer as they had better manners (interest in you and not their commission.)
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    One nice thing about not shopping at the only dealership in the surrounding couple of hundred miles is that they seem to have just enough competition to keep them honest. In 1979 I bought a new Scirocco in Troy, Michigan, and that dealership treated me with the utmost respect. Ditto the dealership in Summit, New Jersey that I got my 1995 Passat GLX from. The dealership just south of Portsmouth, New Hampshire that I blundered into this afternoon was no different, professional, courteous, listened to what I wanted (manual transmission and a leather interior), acknowledged what I said and didn't even try to sell me anything else. I have to respect that. When the time comes, if the Passat measures up to enough of my criteria for my next car, that dealership is going to get the sale.

    Were it that I lived too far from at least two different dealerships of a particular marque, I'd have to think hard and fast as to whether or not I'd want to be a captive customer. If they treated my and my family like royalty, then no problem, otherwise, forget that make and move on. No competition just seems to breed contempt, and arrogance, two of my least favorite things. I feel for you.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • stbarnstbarn Member Posts: 2
    "By the way, do you know what those two speaker looking things are near the sunroom ..."

    Wow! Yours has a SUNROOM? That IS a big car!!!
  • cardriver06cardriver06 Member Posts: 47
    hi

    speaker looking thing hmm,i have to check.
    also,do u know where there might be a noise when i move the car from the parking lot,i mean when the car is stationary ,when i realese the brake,or rotate the steering wheel,there a rattling/squeaking noise,i thk this might be the suspesion,
    but don;t know for sure,also how much milage is ur car giving,and when do these cars start giving normal mileage ,which is mentioned on the sticker
    i belive for the passat it is 21/31 isn;t it,thanks and do let me know

    vW
  • rwatsonrwatson Member Posts: 144
    Sounds like it could be a ball joint if it's making that noise while stationary and turning the wheel. I may be doing the right thing by holding off for a while. Hold on, do the engine RPM's drop a bit when you turn the wheel parked? Normally, there is just a tad RPM reduction. If so, it may set up a slight vibration in the car. If you maybe have some objects in your door storage pockets or console, that may be the rattling noise. The squeaking, well, it may just be the tires squeaking on the pavement because they are so new. I know, it all sounds pretty lame, but this is my experience with other cars. Plus, wishful thinking has me on the positive side. As far as the gas mileage, how are you driving it? My 04 wagon will do 30 highway if I am doing between 55 and 62 mph. I heard somewhere they still use the 55mph standard for these figures.
    Now there are a few of you out there with the new 2006. Let us in on how it drives. How is the power with the 2.0t automatic? C'mon, be a pal and tell us if it's worth it.
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    Um ok where have I been? I thought you went japanese... I am so lost..

    DL
  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    "where is the fully flat fold down and locking (as in with a key) " I don't understand why manufactures don't make this standard on all cars. I paid extra as you may or may not know on my E90. My Cannondale will fit with the seats down,and the front wheel off, they are by no means flat however...grr

    DL
  • bugownz66bugownz66 Member Posts: 10
    Dynaudio! ???????????????????????????????

    You are busting chops........right ?????

    Seriously , your main puchasing point of a motor vehicle is a doggone stereo system ??? I was 16 once too, but obviously have matured to the point where the audio fidelity of a motor vehicle comes kinda last in the overall puchasing scheme.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Member Posts: 141
    The E39 530i had 41.7" front and 34.2" rear totaling 75.9" of legroom while the new Passat has 41.4" front and 37.7" rear totaling 79.1".

    The Avalon beats them both with 41.3/40.9 :surprise:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    So what's your point? If I wanted a slushbox sedan with that kind of legroom I'd opt for a 300C over an Avalon any day. :P

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    . . .is "worth" $750? That's the asking price for Advanced Key on my new Audi A6. Now, truth be told, I did specify the options, color, tires/wheels to the nth degree on my new ride.

    The technology works great -- but boy is it fragile. I have less than 5,000 miles on my Audi and am on my third keyless starter "buttons." It is a 10 minute fix and they keep the parts in stock -- maybe it costs $750 bucks 'cause they know they'll need to replace the switches ever so often.

    My main issue with this feature is the key is STILL HUGE -- I hate to carry the key in my pocket and you can't lock the car with the key in it, so you have to keep the key in your pocket. My routine is to take the key off my desk, put it in my pocket, walk to the car, get in the car, push the button, take the key out of my pocket since it is not at all svelte and drive off.

    For this I paid $750 and it has been replaced twice already?

    What is so advanced about push button start?

    I am 54, my father had two Hudson Hornet cars when I was growing up -- they had pushbutton start. Some cars had a key hole AND you inserted the key, turned it to the ON position then pushed the button.

    When asked, "why pushbutton start?" The answer is "because we can."

    It ought to be free -- knowing what I know now, there is certainly very little, if any, benefit (or detriment) to Advanced Key.

    VW will certainly adopt this technology and charge big time for it, "because they can."

    On the other hand, I have voice command of CD, Navigation, Radio and Telephone -- it was $350 and it is a STEAL at that price.

    The reason?

    Sitting behind the wheel of a new Audi A6 (and one would assume soon a Passat once MMI makes its way there) one has 81 buttons, switches and "controls" that can be articulated in some way (not including the dials and pointers) to control the car. Voice activation of the PHONE ALONE certainly will delay YOUR governing body du jour from banning cell phone use (which I would vote in favor of, if the driver does not have voice activation, BTW.)

    Anyway, keyless start is cool, but I can take it or leave it -- for $750, I can buy more gas instead.

    :shades:
  • prigglypriggly Member Posts: 642
    I was 16 once too, but obviously have matured to the point where the audio fidelity of a motor vehicle comes kinda last in the overall puchasing scheme.

    If your definition of "maturity" is the condoning of a low-end audio system, good for you. The rest of us who aren't so tone-deaf actually appreciate auto manufacturers who respect and share our appreciation of high-end audio enough to actually provide us with it as standard or at least available equipment, unlike VW (in Canada).

    The fact that more and more manufacturers are providing their buyers with quality sound systems suggests there is a growing perception among them, and rightly so, that this feature is of increasing importance to discriminating car buyers who have grown weary of spending the additional time and money to take their new rides post-purchase to an after-market stereo shop for a much-needed transplant.

    As for you, enjoy your paper cones.
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  • birdboybirdboy Member Posts: 158
    test drove the 06 . It drove flawlessly. Much stronger and responsive than my o2 1.8t. I liked most of the improvements except for the seats. I did not feel enveloped in the seat as I do in the 02. the seat is flater and wider around the thigh area. I seemed to have slid while cornering. A comfortable seat is one of the top 3 things I look for in a car. There was a motorized button with a four way rocker, only the lumbar adjusted. the up and down I thought would raise and lower the thigh area of the seat, it did nothing.. No one in the dealership knew why the button had four positions , one up and down, one side to side. Can anyone tell me??Also are there any plans for different seats as I am not a large person and do not need such a wide seat...As always thanks for your time and input
  • earcomearcom Member Posts: 16
    The button moves the lumbar support in and out as well as up and down. I agree that the 02 seats were pretty good and I also thought that the new seats were less than perfect but they seem to be getting better... either I am getting used to them or they are being broken in i.e. less flat and more form fitting.
  • georgekgeorgek Member Posts: 50
    After reading a lot of varying opinions I stopped at a VW dealer today and looked at the cars they had on display All had the 2.0T with Tiptronic, sunroof, in-dash CD changers and leatherette.

    I did not have time to take a test drive.

    All in all, I liked the new car, particularly the greater roominess, in-dash CD changer, storage bins and cubbyholes and decent cupholders.

    I did not like the cheapening of the interior materials compared to my 2000 1.8T GLS. There was a lot of cheap plastic around the doors and armrests, console and lower dash, and very cheesy looking and flimsy plastic inserts the width of the dash and around the radio and climate controls. I also noticed the same cheaper headliner and pillar material that were in a 2005 loaner the last time I had mine serviced. I think the dashboard insert was supposed to look like carbon fiber, it just looked and felt cheap. The materials on my 2000 are much better in appearance and to the touch.
  • rwatsonrwatson Member Posts: 144
    Everyone seems to be going toward that "retro" boy-racer brushed aluminum look. I can't stand it. Too bad VW is following the trend. Seems they're too wrapped up in the Japanese thing to continue with tradition.
  • eurodrivereurodriver Member Posts: 4
    Lifting up the windshield wiper arms from home position to full upright position is impossible in both the new 2006 Passat and Jetta. The wiper arm immediately hits the hood. Add a degree of difficulty to simple window cleaning and several degrees of difficulty to clearing the snow from under the blades. Subtract some more points from modern German engineering.
  • mevandemevande Member Posts: 190
    A loaded V6 (not available until the fall) per Edmunds - Fully loaded, the cost can run close to $40,000, but that's still a bargain when compared to similarly sized models from VW's German cousins in Stuttgart, Ingolstadt and Munich. A bargain?.. when we don't know if the reliability will be at least better than average? A bargain when VW dealers don't offer loaner cars and every other "near Luxury" offers a loaner at no charge when service is needed? I think the car looks great and had promise, but VW is going to have to discount more to earn the right to play in that $$ ballpark. The base units seem like decent deals.
  • filonizfiloniz Member Posts: 1
    Hey, my bro's has a 2005.5 Audi S4 with exact same feature. The lumbar support do go up and down, but you barly notice it. I should know cuz at first we thought I was broken. At least untill we play with it some more and found out the subtle of it all.

    Hope this help. Thats why they can claim 14 ways power seat.
  • vwdriver2vwdriver2 Member Posts: 54
    I recently washed my 2006 Passat for the first time and ran into the same problem...also, I tried folding in my mirrors and they wouldn't fold all the way...is there a special trick to it or is that as far as they go???
  • lmxlmx Member Posts: 35
    wrong!!!!!!!!your sales person must be such a ****** anyways you know what i meen!

    to put your wippers in the winter position is such a simple task:

    1-insert the key to the on position (not all the way in to start the engine)

    2-pull it back a notch from the on position and tap the wipper blade arm down one time (the blades are going to move upward and hold there position)

    that is all!

    danke
  • eurodrivereurodriver Member Posts: 4
    Don't blame the salesperson. He/she has only a limited amount of time in which to explain EVERYTHING about the new car. Of course, this is an impossible task.

    Glad to hear there is hope with the Passat/Jetta windshield wiper problem. It would be great if someone with a manual could quote what it says.
  • strato435strato435 Member Posts: 14
    Hi,

    I thought I'd read that VW would 'not' be introducing a TDI Passat in America this year. However, my local dealer tells me it will be out sometime this Fall. Are they simply out of touch, or will there be a diesel?

    I drove the Jetta TDI the other night, and was reasonably impressed. The body was a little bit noisier than I'd had expected (not due to the diesel), so I'm wondering if I should hold off for a few months...
  • alison1alison1 Member Posts: 2
    I just bought a 2006 Passat and am not sure if I HAVE to put in premium gas. Can I use regular instead?
  • lmxlmx Member Posts: 35
    well i can tell you right now that it will be more than a few months...maybe a year or more but don't worry!

    the best buy would be the outcomming model,dealers in general have still a fair amount of stock on 05...just choose a dealer with a larger amount of unit and you will see is eyes wide open of joy when you tell him your interested in a tdi passat!

    buy the way with the 05 passat your buying yhe last one that were built ...so potentially the best of the last 4 years or so.
  • lmxlmx Member Posts: 35
    premium,the explanation is very simple ,our north american premium is in general 91% oct. in europe the regular is in general 90-92% oct. the timming of a turbochared engine is set on an advance timing....in simple words if you put regular or 87%%oct. the engine performance will decrease dramatically and on the long run will knock ...a question of engine timming : :)
  • alison1alison1 Member Posts: 2
    Will the regular gas ruin the engine?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Will the regular gas ruin the engine? "

    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: It will cost you more money to run regular.

    The fact is that most modern engines, especially blown engines like the 2.0T have an On Board Computer (OBC) that can control many elements of the engine that deal with the combustion of the fuel (spark timing, boost pressure, valve timing, fuel injector timing, fuel injector duration). The goal of the OBC is to keep the combustion process on that knife edge between not hot enough (lower efficiency, lower power and lower mileage) and too hot (detonation, rapid valve wear and if left unchecked, broken parts). Given that the 2.0T is a blown high compression engine, it is absolutely optimized for high octane fuel, and if given less than that the OBC will retard the ignition timing, back off on the amount of boost the turbocharger can deliver and generally yield measurably worse power and fuel economy.

    Back when regular gasoline was $1.20 per gallon and premium was $1.40, a case could have been made to the effect that since regular cost roughly 14% less than premium, and since a number of tests that I've read suggest that by using regular in an engine designed for premium would reduce fuel economy by only about 10%, you would be saving money by using regular. Now however, it's a different story, the gap between regular and premium is still about twenty cents, however, that equates to not even a 7% difference.

    If you have a 2.0T and you want to save money, use Premium fuel.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    The engine management system will allow the use of regular and mid grade gasoline.

    But over 12,000 to 15,000 annual miles, it has been demonstrated that a car with a compression ratio that essentially requires premium that is run on octane lower than is specified will have increased fuel costs.

    Why would you want to pay MORE for lower octane gas.

    The car, if kept long enough, will probably have some additional expense items that could be tied back to the lower grade fuel too -- and unless you have maintenance items covered by the mfg (and even then if they suspected you did something that shortened the life of some components they would be not in favor of paying out for "your" behavior) once again why would you want to increase the operating cost of your car?

    If you wanted a car that drank regular juice as its regular (no pun intended) cocktail, why not buy one of those rather than a vehicle that is designed to run on premium and automatically "saves the engine from damage" if you put a lower grade in it?

    I read these questions all over the Internet and even in some of the car magazines -- the Premium vs Regular question/discussion is everywhere and the answers are almost always the same -- "it is a false economy to use regular or mid grade in a car who's engine was designed for premium."

    False economy -- nets out to: it will cost more to use the lower grade than any 10 to 20 cent price differential will ever save.

    If you use 20 gallons per week (or about 1,000 gallons per year) the differential is $200. These cars are many many many times more expensive. What is up with the notion that $200 saved in the price of gas when it is considered that it will cost MORE than $200 due to decreased economy and increased maintenance costs is even worth considering?

    Lighting my fireplace with paper money makes just about as much sense as buying a car than NEEDS premium and choosing to run it on regular.

    But, that's just my opinion and the opinion of just about anyone and everyone who writes on this subject. :surprise:

    Sorry, I got a little breathless there.

    Have a great Labor Day weekend. . .hmmm let's see, 30 gallons of gas, $3.29 per gallon (that's up $.50 in one day), oh heck, round it up to $4.00 per gallon for rip off along the Interstate "got you where we want you" dealers and my trip to Pittsburgh and back now costs $120 in gas alone.

    Ouch, ouch, ouch!

    Thank you sir, may I have another. . . .?

    Shoulda got a 2.0T.

    :cry:
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Nope, it’ll be fine.

    It’s like if you ate a box of donuts, you won’t feel great, and it won’t kill you, but if you do it everyday you’ll have consequences.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Nice writeup from Autoweek on the 06' Passat:

    http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=103018
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    Why would you want to put regular in? It will save you less than $2 per fill up. I have always thought if you cannot afford to put premium in your car (that recommends Premium) maybe you should've bought a car that recommends regular.
  • trucker50trucker50 Member Posts: 108
    with gas running about $3.20 a gallon for regular right now (I know its temporary from the effects of Katrina) and although probably will come down some, buying a car for your daily driver that runs on premium just seems foolish to me in the current enviroment. A 300horsepower Mustang GT seems to run pretty good on regular.
    The fact that it '"only" amounts to a few dollars more per fill is IMHO kind of a stupid argument....Yeah I know, if it costs say 4 dollars more per fill and you only fill up once a week, thats just $200 dollars a year. Chump change. It's just paper afterall might as well spend it on gas as anything else.
    The new Chevy HHR 4 cyclinder runs on premium too....now THATS engineering! :)
  • jsteinbergjsteinberg Member Posts: 1
    I usually put a hitch on my car for a bike rack. I prefer this so i do not scratch my car with a bike rack on top. I usually get them at U-Haul.Nobody knows though,which hitch fits my new 2006 Passat. Anybody know?
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    This statement needs some clarification:

    "Why would you want to put regular in? It will save you less than $2 per fill up."

    This is only a true statement in terms of the cost of the gasoline for a certain quantity.

    It is a false statement when "economy" is taken into account.

    If one fills up and the cost is (here in Cincinnati the price "increase" over mid grade is Mobile = $.05 other brands = $.08 - $.011.)

    So if your car requires 15 gallons and the differential between the lowest price and the highest price is fully $.20 (regular vs premium, i.e.), the extra cost is $3.00.

    However, one tank of gas, a few hundred miles, is NOT what we are talking about.

    Over the span of many tankfuls and thousands of miles, a car so designed for premium will have higher "operational" costs (and that includes gasoline) if regular gas (or even mid grade) is used instead of the fuel it was designed for.

    There is a great deal of evidence that supports this -- and it is easily accessible via a "Google or two or three" -- it is MORE expensive to use regular in a car specifically designed to use premium.

    The fact that such and such a car with X hundred horsepower can "successfully" use regular is not somehow transferable to the Passat, BMW, Mercedes, etc. that come from their maker with an ignition/computer set up AND compression ratio so designed for premium juice.

    The fact that the engine management electronics compensate for the tendency of a car that requires premium to have pre-ignition (ping) by retarding the spark only further substantiates the false economy notion.

    The car that requires premium when run on regular will use more fuel to create the required power, indeed it will pollute more, it will require shorter service intervals and a partridge in a pear tree.

    At 1,000 gallons per year, the cost would be $200 for "Premium vs Regular" (assuming the difference is fully $.20 -- often in Cincinnati it is NOT that great.)

    Over the span of miles and time one normally considers, the cost of using regular can be more than an additional $200 per year.

    Here is one final thought/suggestion: again, using the wonderful power of the Internet, examine the how's and why's of engine design with an eye toward "why" some engines are designed from the get-go to use Premium gasoline.

    Note: performance, longentivity, maintenance, pollution, etc, during your perusal of such research.

    In order to avoid "absolutes" I will conclude by saying that there are virtually no benefits of any kind to using a "below specified grade" fuel in a modern internal combustion engine.

    :confuse:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "The fact that the engine management electronics compensate for the tendency of a car that requires premium to have pre-ignition (ping) by retarding the spark only further substantiates the false economy notion."

    Picking a nit here... The term "Pre-Ignition" refers to when the Air/Fuel mixture spontaneously combusts from internal engine heat sources (carbon deposits, extremely low grade fuel, or WAY too high compression), before the spark plug sparks (hence the name "Pre-Ignition"). If an engine is suffering from pre-ignition it is highly unlikely that it will last long enough for anyone to hear any symptomatic noise (pinging or otherwise) before it lunches itself.

    "Pinging" or "Detonation" occurs when pockets of "End Gas" (the last isolated small pockets of unburned air and fuel) spontaneously combust due to low grade fuel, early spark timing, too high of a compression ratio and/or too much boost. Normally it occurs as some combination of at least two of those factors. In this scenario the spark plug(s) does(do) its(their) thing(s) and ignite(s) the fuel and air closest to the spark plug(s). With that(those) portion(s) set to burning the fuel should combust as in a continuous "Woosh" (not "Bang"). However, if the fuel was set to burning too soon given the factors of fuel grade, compression ratio, and/or the boost pressure, the pressure/heat from the rapidly expanding gasses inside the combustion chamber will be too much for the last remnants of the air/fuel mixture (the End-Gas) to resist, and instead of having the flame front "Woosh" right on through said remnamts of air and fuel, that last little bit goes "Bang".

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    Your explanation and amplification and correction of my statement are, of course, right on the money.

    However, would you say that you would advise the use of of Premium fuel in a car desgined for Premium for the GENERAL reason that it indeed a false economy
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    Well said and better than I could of done. But, in the end, it substantiates my original comment on using premium over regular when suggested by the manufacturer.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "However, would you say that you would advise the use of of Premium fuel in a car desgined for Premium for the GENERAL reason that it indeed a false economy"

    Errr, I'm not exactly sure I can get my tired brain around that language (I'm a little tired this morning, I'm thinking that I can blame Bobby Genepri for that. ;-) )

    Having said that, I would only advocate using any lower grade fuel in an engine designed for Premium if (and only if) the only available fuel is of a lower grade and you are certain that your remaining fuel supply cannot be stretched enough to allow you to reach a fueling point that has Premium. Said another way, I believe that you and I are basically singing from the same page of the song book.

    Here is a link to a recent post of mine that concluded with, "If you have a 2.0T and you want to save money, use Premium fuel.":
    Volkswagen Passat 2006+" #714, 1 Sep 2005 4:29 pm

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • fish8fish8 Member Posts: 2,282
    I understand your point of view, but still stand by my previous statement. Whether gas is $1.50 per gal or $3.50 per gallon, the difference, for the most part, is still $.20 between premium and regular. If an additional $15-20 per month for premium gas over regular will put one in a financial strain, then one should be looking for a car that does not recommend premium fuel.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    But but but -- if you would "save" on the cost of the fuel per gallon, you would actually spend more money.

    There are, therefore, no savings for a Passat 2.0T on regular rather than premium -- this point (that several of us [most?] agree upon) needs to be stated and understood by those asking the question "is it OK to put regular in my Passat even though it says in the manual that I should use premium?"

    The straight answer, although perhaps a little counter-intuitive, is "yes" you can put regular gas in the Passat -- if you want to spend MORE money for the operation of your car.

    Since I can only assume that folks ask this question legitimately and sincerely in an effort to understand IF there is an economy (that makes sense) to using regular, I think we (those who are in agreement with the point) should inform (educate, perhaps?) these folks of the consequences of taking such actions.

    Here is a brief story that may shed some light on how my pea brain works:

    There is a type of fire that is "fueled" by water -- if you spray water on the fire, that is, it intensifies and spreads. Although this is counter-intuitive, one would need to be aware, if one was fighting this kind of fire, NOT to put water on this fire as a way to fight the fire.

    When I first found out that my Audi would accept (essentially without blowing the engine up) regular fuel (I read this on another blog), I immediately went to my Audi service manager and asked for an explanation of the consequences of doing so.

    When I was given the "false economy" explanation, I immediately had a light go on that told me to use regular gas in my 4.2L Audi V8 engine ONLY if I wanted to spend MORE money.

    Subsequently, I began researching "how things work" and found out the benefits and "why's" of high compression engines (and it is, generally, those engines that NEED higher octane fuels).

    Recently, I was told (I have not vetted this, yet) that at least one Mercedes model recommends 100,000 mile oil change intervals. I was told that the reason this is possible is a combination of factors: high compression ratio (therefore high octane "super clean" a.k.a. "Toptier" fuels) very high burn temperatures inside the cylinders (which burn the impurities before they have a chance to "impregnate" the oil) and alloy cylinders that include titanium.

    Again, being told this and knowing that it is true have not been investigated by yours truly; but, like the fuel discussion (which I have vetted) and the water as an accelerant example, I can understand that this is a legitimate question.

    Of course, I probably have clouded the issue, when my intent was to clarify.

    Suffice it to say: Passat's 2.0T (and most certainly the 3.6 V6, too) will benefit from using premium gas -- AND cost less doing so than if regular gas is used. :shades:
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