2009 Toyota Corolla

mackabee

Looks like another review sans pictures of the actual test drive. Looking at their list of standard and optional equipment seems like the CE will become the LE, and the LE will become the XLE. We've had the standard model in the previous gen with roll up windows am fm radio, and ac. No power mirrors. They sold to the "I don't need that stuff, it's more things that can break" crowd.
:shades:

tiff_c

A Mini is not reliable. Any new Hyundai would actually be much more reliable.
Obviously, reliability is not her top priority or she would not be considering a Mini. She will be at the Mini dealer for a lot more than just oil changes

She didn't want a Mini for reliability she wants one because it's Cute. Which is pretty much what I said above. She will NOT be getting a Mini because the dealer is just too damn far away to realistically service it or maintain it.
s far as reliability it's discussed on the Forums but they are generally reliable. They are not however as reliable as a Corolla. I would never buy a Hyundai, ever. I remember them from the early years and that was enough to keep me away from them for good. A long warranty is useless if it's always being repaired! I know lots of people who got suckered into buying one against my advice and only one guy was relatively happy with his and didn't have any major problems. They are disposable cars. No matter how the media spins it.

HYUNDAI
Hope
You
Understand
Nothing's
Driveable
And
Inexpensive

kernick

She might want to look at the new model of the Honda Fit, and not the '08. I know it's already released in Japan, and is planned to launch here in a few months.

It might be cuter, and more fun driving, than a base Corolla? and if she wants the versatility of a hatchback.

backy

You are exactly Toyota's target market for the new Corolla. Someone who thinks Corollas are bulletproof, is willing to pay for that reputation, and isn't willing to consider other, better cars because of an inaccurate view of what they offer today. Hope you enjoy your 2009 Corolla when you buy it!

nippononly

aren't power windows the one thing that IS standard across the Corolla line today? I wonder if that will continue to the Corolla standard, or base or whatever the cheap trim will be called, for the '09.

I see that they have gone with standard ABS and six airbags across the line for '09. A very wise move IMO. I am intrigued that in the year 2010 Toyota will still be selling a compact car you can buy with hand-crank windows....

I'm glad they brought the roofline down a bit too. It was edging into clown car territory with the current model, although it wasn't quite there.

kdhspyder

especially with the relatively narrow track. Lower and wider is good.

nippononly

How funny, I just looked at my previous remark, and I had meant to say "power mirrors" were standard, not "power windows". I am well aware that the current Corolla has hand crank windows on the CE (and maybe still the 'S' as well?).

But yes, lower is definitely good for handling. The decent skidpad and slalom numbers demonstrate some of the benefits of that change.

mackabee

Nope, they are standard on the LE and part of UP upgrade package on CE. Cruise is also optional on both CE and LE. I don't know who comes up with these upgrade packages, they should just make the stuff standard since just about everybody these days wants cruise and power windows, locks, and mirrors. Now try finding a CE on any lot without the upgrade package.
Mack

nippononly

I have seen plenty of CEs on the lots without cruise, but I think I have only ever seen one new current-gen Corolla that didn't have power windows and locks.

tiff_c

She might want to look at the new model of the Honda Fit, and not the '08. I know it's already released in Japan, and is planned to launch here in a few months.

Good idea, but she will need a car before November. I think that is when the new ones will be released.
If it was coming out in a month I'd probably buy her one and I might even like it if it had the Sport seats in it!
The regular seats are rock hard and uncomfortable for me.

tiff_c

You are exactly Toyota's target market for the new Corolla. Someone who thinks Corollas are bulletproof, is willing to pay for that reputation, and isn't willing to consider other, better cars because of an inaccurate view of what they offer today. Hope you enjoy your 2009 Corolla when you buy it!

For someone who posts a lot what age are you? Your reading comprehension could use some work! Did you even bother to read where I said the car was for my wife? No apparently not and your stab at me for my Hyundai joke is pretty silly. I mean I have those acronyms for almost every car make out there including makes I own and like myself.
If Hyundai was so great and it isn't. Then why does Toyota sell so many millions more Corollas than Hyundai? Because it is in fact very good at what the designers want it to do. For me I'd probably die of boredom driving it. But my wife is not interested in driving fast or any thing like that and she sure as heck wouldn't buy a Hyundai not after all the grief her friends have had with them.
I'm not a fanboy of any particular brand or car. Some years they are good, other years they bite!
The Corolla is perfect for someone like my wife, that hardly makes it a perfect car.
Come back when Hyundai has sold 30 million of any of their models worldwide and then we'll talk. Sheesh!

mackabee

If it had power locks and windows then it had cruise. That's part of the upgrade package. At least that's how we get them in our region.
:shades:

pat

Well, actually, this is not the right place to talk about Hyundai, nor is it the right place to make this personal.

Let's skip the confrontations and get back to the 09 Corolla, okay? Thanks.

jacksan1

Y'all talk about Toyota and the new Corolla as if Toyota was infallible.

At least, I have never said that Toyota is infallible.

You need not be infallible to be successful.

The crazy thing about the Corolla is that it is engineered to be a B+/B car. Toyota never intends it to earn an A grade, and they have perfected the art of getting a B+/B. Its "faults" are carefully calculated balance of engineering, sales, and profits.

You could even call it an art of engineered fallibility.

raychuang00

The crazy thing about the Corolla is that it is engineered to be a B+/B car. Toyota never intends it to earn an A grade, and they have perfected the art of getting a B+/B. Its "faults" are carefully calculated balance of engineering, sales, and profits.

I think this is a huge mistake on Toyota's part because the similar-class Honda Civic sedan is such a vastly superior car in many ways, especially with a decent powerful (but still reasonably fuel-efficient) 1.8-liter I-4 engine mated to a very good five-speed automatic (which may become a six-speed automatic at the mid-model change (MMC) coming fall 2008) and an excellent suspension. I believe that Toyota should seriously look at putting in their new 2.0-liter I-4 Valvematic engine mated to a five-speed automatic for the higher-end Corolla models as soon as possible to better compete against the Civic.

jacksan1

It depends upon how you look at the strategy, I suppose.

When you look at the Japanese market, for instance, the old Corolla was outselling the new Civic by a margin of at least 6 to 1, sometimes as much as 8 to 1. Yes, this was the 9th-gen Corolla versus the current Civic. The vastly superior Civic has been absolutely no match in sales against an old B student called the Corolla. This is from a market where people, in my opinion, are far more sophisticated, knowledge-wise, about automotive technology on the average than in the U.S.

I don't have the exact numbers here, but even in the U.S. market, the current Civic has not toped the numbers that the old Corolla put up, except for a very limited number of months (more like weeks).

This issue has been debated already, but I tend to agree with the proposition that the most members of the driving public really do not care much about the technical gizmos in the way we the enthusasits do. If a 4-speed AT gets as many miles per gallon as a 5- or more-speed AT, that is all that they care about.

Of course, there will be a point in the evolution of technology where the old technology is no longer marketable, in the way the 3-speed AT went away. My guess is that Toyota would very quickly switch over to 5AT (actually, CVT is more likely) for the Corolla, but if and only if the market reaction is such that 4AT is the reason the Corolla does not sell. If it sells fine with 4AT, they will go with it for so long as it is marketable.

kdhspyder

I'd be very surprised if the MMC in three years didn't add the valvematic to both the 1.8L and the 2.4l.

I have agree with jacksan1 here that this vehicle is engineered to be the lowest cost and most efficient if not best handling vehicle in the class. The market needs basic and reliable. The others don't really want to satisfy this subsegment so they add features to appeal to the upper-level subsegments. This leaves Toyota and probably Hyundai with the lower and medium level subsegment.

All the players have been doing this for a long time so it's not revolutionary. It's intentional. Toyota may have a hard time breaking into the enthusiast subsegment but Mazda and the others have an equally difficult time cutting their costs to fight for the $16-17000 buyer. This is Toyota's niche. It's just that this niche is the largest of all - up to now.

In this industry everything revolves around volume and Toyota has hogged the greatest part of the volume by cutting cutting cutting yet keeping the reliability rock solid.

backy

I am confused now. You sell Toyotas, right? So do people want features like power windows and locks on Corollas, or not?

From your post:

I don't know who comes up with these upgrade packages, they should just make the stuff standard since just about everybody these days wants cruise and power windows, locks, and mirrors. Now try finding a CE on any lot without the upgrade package.

From a few posts ago:

We've had the standard model in the previous gen with roll up windows am fm radio, and ac. No power mirrors. They sold to the "I don't need that stuff, it's more things that can break" crowd.

I suspect that my prior assumption is true... if people buy a Corolla w/o things like power locks/windows/mirrors etc., it's not because they wouldn't like to have them, but rather that's all the Corolla they can afford. But leaving them off the base Corolla allows Toyota and their dealers to advertise a low "starting at" price, which rises quickly once you add features that almost everyone wants.

jacksan1

Sorry to butt in here, but I think customers of the Corolla-class car can probably be divided into the following:

1) Those who want power things and are willing to pay for them and buy a well-equipped version;
2) Those who can afford power equipment but don't want to pay for them and buy a stripped version instead;
3) Those who cannot afford power things but want to buy the car and do buy the stripped version.

I have personally been in all three subclasses listed above.

backy

Thanks for the comments, but I would still like to hear from mackabee, since I think he is a Toyota salesperson and sees this buying behavior first-hand.

If any Type 2 buyers exist, I think there would be very few of those today, for a 4-door sedan like the Corolla. Especially since it appears from other posts that it is near impossible to buy a Corolla without power windows/locks/mirrors. And there are very few other new cars in its class available without these features.

kdhspyder

As we enter these last few months of the current Gen9, with $1000 rebate or special financing.....
In CAT
7 o/o 106 CE 5M ( 1801 ) models are strippies ( i.e. no Cruise and no power pckge )
13 o/o 700+ CE 4AT ( 1802 ) models are strippies. ( ditto )

But now with a $1000 rebate these both are lower in MSRP and transaction price than the original 1801s and 1802s that came out back in Feb 2002.

mackabee

I really don't remember when the last time I sold a Corolla with roll up windows. May have been back in 97 or 98.
The current gen I have seen one and it was dx'd in for a customer. So I don't think there's a big market for that type of car, that's what's usually advertised as a loss leader to get people in the door. It's our job to sell them that car or move them to the next trim level.
Personally I hated the screamer ads my store used to run. Most people still wanted to negotiate the price. Whenever I ran into that type of customer I would make a quick sale by telling them that is the price no negotiating, I have blue, black, silver and gold available which one would you like to take home?
Mack

jacksan1

And there are very few other new cars in its class available without these features.

I think you are right. We are now at a point when you basically have to special-order a sripped version if you want to hand-crank the windows, if that is an option at all. Does the current iteration of Elantra even offer a hand crank?

Whoops, this is a Corolla thread, isn't it?

backy

And CAT covers how much territory? And how long have those 20 stripped cars been sitting on the lots? That's the kind of info we'd need to figure out how popular or not stripped Corollas are. If for example there's 100 dealers in CAT, that would be one stripped car for every 5 dealers... making a stripped car very hard to find. I also suspect those cars with crank windows would not have the optional safety features, i.e. ABS, side airbags, and VSC. At least ABS and side airbags will be on any strippo 2009 Corollas. It's possible that change will make stripped Corollas more popular for '09--e.g. parents with limited funds looking for a car with those safety features for a child won't have to buy an upgraded trim to get them.

kdhspyder

5 states.. PA, MD, VA, WV and DE
There's about 150 dealers and most Corollas turn over in 20-30 days. There are relatively few of them now because the pricing has come down making the effective 'extra' for the power windows and cruise Zero.

raychuang00

I have agree with jacksan1 here that this vehicle is engineered to be the lowest cost and most efficient if not best handling vehicle in the class. The market needs basic and reliable. The others don't really want to satisfy this subsegment so they add features to appeal to the upper-level subsegments. This leaves Toyota and probably Hyundai with the lower and medium level subsegment.

However, you are forgetting that Toyota does have a car that satisfies low-cost buyers--the Yaris.

In short, by being "too cheap" Toyota is going to end up losing buyers to the Honda Civic, which is a better car even now with better handling, a good drivetrain, and good-quality interior materials (I've read a few reviews of the new Corolla and there has been complaints about the new interior).

mackabee

The Yaris satisfies no one. Once you option one out as most customers want it's more expensive than a Corolla Ce. It will be a matter of time that the Yaris will join the Tercel and Echo in Toyota heaven.
Mackabee :shades:

jaxs1

There have been complaints about the quality of material of the new Camry also.
Cheap plastic complaints that had been more normal to expect in reviews of GM cars.
Toyota interior quality is going down in multiple recent Toyota models.
In the 90's and earlier Toyota frequently had the nicest, highest quality interior materials compared to the competition.
Now the Camry interior is a level below Chevy Malibus and the 2009 Corolla is now going down that same road.

alpha01

Although I'm a bit skeptical on the interior materials quality on the Corolla (primarily due to the basic Camry LEs), I will say that I think the design and fit looks fine in the photography I've seen. And while Car and Driver blasted the climate control knobs, they didn't explicitly say anything else negative, and edmunds.com's review says the interior has actually improved. Additionally, I think the classic analog gauge cluster looks good in the S and very sharp in the XRS which uses Optitron sport meters (the XLE will have Optitron meters as well, but likely different color, as they are not designated "sport").

I guess my point is that I wouldn't write the Corolla's interior off just yet, especially since I've not been in it.

mackabee

All manufacturers interiors have gone down in quality. Cheap hard plastic is all around us. Go look at a BMW 5 series. Cheap hard plastic in there too.
The climate controls are taken right out of the Yaris/xB/xD Why they don't use the climate control as on the european and asian versions of the car is beyond me. Take a look:

mcdawgg

"All manufacturers interiors have gone down in quality. Cheap hard plastic is all around us."

Very true, Mack. One thing that is nice is the price of cars has remained about the same, at least the Corollas and Camrys that I am most familiar with, but the safety features are way up. Something has to give, or else prices would be up.

backy

(Can't reply the regular way because an ad is covering up the Reply tag)

The reason the Corolla for the U.S. doesn't have auto climate control is the same reason other cars in this class have features like auto climate control in other countries but not in the U.S.: in other countries, the Corolla is not considered an "economy" car, so folks in other countries are willing to pay more for a Corolla. Here, Toyota needs to keep the price down so the Corolla can fulfill its mission as an economy car. So we get "pizza cover" HVAC controls, lots of hard plastic, roll-down windows on the Standard trim, beam rear suspension and 4AT on most trims, no more faux wood on the LE etc.

alpha01

Given the market segment, I will say that I don't mind hard plastic if it fits well and doesn't have a Fisher-Price look. I have been very satisfied with the look, style, and durability of materials in my '03 Sentra, which I feel had a better interior than the previous generation Altima, but uses hard plastic. And, at an entry price-point, roll-down windows are fine by me as well. The 4AT on non-XRS models and the torsion beam on S and XRS models are disappointments... though I'm not sure the Standard/LE/XLE crowd is going to care much. Also in the XRS, why no VSC Off switch?

cubssoxs

Hey has anyone heard if the new corolla will have push button start just like the european model? I have noticed however it seems like the corolla will not come with this option. However, I am not sure.

lls57

Since they going more upscale on the new Corolla, does anyone know if they will have remote trunk release, like the Camry has, in addition to the current lock/unlock?

Lester

mackabee

Don't know but I have the standard and optional equipment list with me for our first 09 Corolla S. I will post as soon as I get home. Stay tuned.
Mackabee

mackabee

We all know pretty much what is standard equipment on the Corolla. This info I have however is on the S model which has a few different things than the other versions. Here's some info to keep your appetite whetted while the car gets to your favourite Toyota dealer!

Starting with the Mechanical & Performance & Safety

We have the 1.8L Dual VVT-i ENGINE, Mac struts, front disc/rear drums with ABS, BA, and EBD. Tire pressure monitoring system. Electric power steering. Airbags all the way around except knee airbag. Active front seat headrests. Engine immobilizer.

Exterior: and this is a good one! Color keyed FOLDING outside power mirrors. Color keyed front and rear underbody spoilers, chrome exhaust tip.

Interior: A/C with clean air filter, am/fm/cd WMA/MP3 player with 6 speakers, AUX audio port AND XM Satellite antenna. (still need the add on receiver) Combination meter with illuminated ceremony speedometer with outside temp :shades: display, Tilt and telescoping leather steering wheel.
and the usual 60/40 split rear seats, height adjustable driver's seat, digital clock, in trunk release for seatbacks.,etc,,etc,
Now the options on this car are:
CK, SR, SX, VS, CF which I will decode for you.

CK all weather guard package (also known as cold package) includes heavy duty heater with rear seat heater duct, Anti-chip tape and Color keyed heated outside mirrors.

SR tilt and slide power moonroof

SX sport package, inlcudes 16" alloy wheels with p205/55/r16 tires, rear deck spoiler, power windows with drivers side one-touch down, Remote keyless entry w/key transmitter, cruise control

VS vehicle stability control with traction control and cut-off switch

CF carpet floor mats

this one is being built in Cambridge Ca

Mack

mackabee

We have our ride and drive on the 20th and 21st of February. Unfortunately I won't be able to attend since it's on a wednesday or thursday and I have chemo that week. The Sequoia is also on the schedule for the ride and drive. The good news is we will probably have the new Corolla at the dealership a week or two before the ride and drive so I will get to play with it and drive it. I will post my impression here. Dang! I really wanted to go to the ride and drive, they usually have gifts of unspeakable value for us! I told my GSM to pick me up a pen or ball cap. :shades:

kdhspyder

Follow up to Mack's post on the 'S' model

An XLE will look very similar sans the body kit and spoiler.
It appears that in the standard equipment the XM antenna is standard but there's no word on the actual receiver.

Options: CL, EJ, CK, SR, VS

CL .. Cruise Ctl
EJ .. JBL 6CD, w/ 8 speakers and XM with a 90 day trial subscription; Bluetooth with steering wheel audio controls and hands free controls ( BT)
CK .. All weather guard package
SR .. Tilt/Slide Moonroof
VS .. VSC + Trac w/ disable switch
CF .. Carpeted floor mats

Pricing .. TBA

lls57

Thanks for the info. The XLE is the one I'm most interested in. It looks like from what you and Mack have listed, that the remote trunk release is not available. It would be nice, but it's certainly not a deal breaker. Now, I just have to convince my (much) better half that she can live without it! Somehow, we've managed for almost six years on our 03 Corolla, but she says it's a requirement on our next car. Maybe I can talk her into a Camry....

Lester

nippononly

this means that even the Corolla S will have hand-crank windows unless you buy the sport package, and even the XLE won't have standard cruise?

Dang!

On a separate note, can you get Sirius in a new Toyota, or is XM the only sat option?

jaxs1

It's curiously equipped. No voice command like almost all other factory nav systems, including the Honda Civic. However, XM NavTraffic is available, which is not available on most lower priced cars. I think the Nissan Altima is currently the cheapest car you can get factory nav traffic.

http://xmradio.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=1527

I like having traffic service available, but not being able to control anything by voice makes it much less useful. You will have to pull over and park to do everything since Toyota locks out the buttons when driving and you can't just give a command by voice like "nearest gas station" or "nearest fast food" when you need to find places to stop on long road trip.

alpha01

Glad to see there's a cutoff switch on the VSC. In light of that, I find press comments on the intrusive VSC perplexing. Its likely that the switch will not totally disable VSC, but I'd be surprised if intervention levels weren't elevated enough to make it less intrusive during slalom and avoidance manuevers.

mack, kdh - what are the codes for leather and NAV, and which models will they be available on? from Toyota's materials, it seems like both options will be available on S, XLE, XRS, and I hope thats so.

lls57 - maybe I'm the only one confused, but what do you mean "remote trunk release'? If you mean a button on the keyless entry fob to open the trunk, I don't see a reason why the new Corolla wouldn't have this. Doesn't the 2008 remote keyless have this feature?

jaxs1

And this intrusive VSC is an important issue because many Corolla buyers will be breaking speed records at the local autocross :confuse: .

lls57

That's what I mean. It doesn't look like it by the description on the Toyota web site for the 08. All I know is my 03 LE doesn't have it.

Lester

backy

It's really hard for me to understand that even on the XLE trim, which is supposedly the most "luxurious" of the Toyota trims, features like cruise control and heated side mirrors are options. Also it's hard for me to understand why Toyota continues to make people pay extra for features that are commonplace on almost every other (non-Toyota) car, e.g. rear seat heat ducts and a heater powerful enough to cope with "cold weather". :confuse:

kdhspyder

A guess only on ''Why?' for the CK extra. This same model is sold in the Caribbean and in Central America, I've seen it in both places. It may be a NA extra not included on the other Americas vehicles.

kdhspyder

alpha01..

Leather is normally LA and the Navi option is normally NV that is unless they are grouped together in a specific Upgrade Package.

Initially it appears that the entire first wave is without Leather or Navi.

kenym

They featured the XRS model, and didn't say what trim level it was but the interior really looked sharp with the leather seats and navigation system. I wasn't aware Toyota offered a five speed automatic for the 2.4 engine. Even the commentator for Motor week was surprised at all the options being offered on the new Corolla

jaxs1

Motorweek reviews generally always very positive. I don't think I have ever seen a critical review from them.