Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

pgignac

I understand the new super LS H will be 550 horses, get 50 miles to the gallon in the city with the use of the electric motors.

pgignac

I went to an S600 mercedes because it had 500 horses.A service tech at Lexus says he has received aplogies from Lexus customers that have moved on to more exotic vehicles.The reason being, in most cases, the Lexus became boring after having traded every 2 years to basically the same vehicle.

msmtema99

now
we all see the all new IS and GS
and soon we will see the all new LS
my question is
those 3 models have another names in japan
IS=Altezza
GS=Aristo
LS=celsior

is those 3 names will deleted completly
or will have another design related with toyota
but sharing its mechanical electrical equipment with the other
3 in lexus catalogue
i really wanna know if toyota will delete them or designed another design with the same equip. as camry and ES highlander and RX
even land cruiser salon and LX

billsoter

I've addressed this subject before because it's something that would really be compelling to make me want to trade up from my 2003 LS. In today's news there is this about Ipod Access in the new Toyota Scion:

Toyota's 2006 Scion Offers Optional iPod-Controlled Pioneer Stereo
by Staff, 1:35 PM EDT, May 25th, 2005
Capitalizing on a recent trend among auto manufacturers, Toyota on Wednesday announced that its 2006 Scion tC sports coupe, which starts arriving at dealerships next week, will offer an optional iPod-controlled Pioneer AM/FM/CD stereo. The upgrade, which Toyota will include for US$260 more, enables iPod owners to plug their MP3 players directly into the stereo. The iPod controls the stereo, which displays track, artist and album information on its one-line display. and receives constant power from it.

I would hope Lexus offers something like this in the new LS. Unfortunately I get the impression Toyota/Lexus feels this is something for the younger buyer only. That is definitely not true.

wbwynn

They absolutely had better add this to the new LS; MB has it in the new M class. It's a must-have for all ages.

maxhonda99

I believe the 2006 Lexus IS250/350 is getting the Ipod access as standard. So it makes sense that the next LS will get it also.

ljflx

On page 24 of July's Motor Trend they are saying - in the We Hear column - that the 2007 car will be a radical interpretation of the new design direction and that the car will be state of the art. They naturally report on the LS460 with a 315+HP (I'd say this will be in the 330-340 range) and that a V8 hybrid LS600 also will be available in the 2007 MY bringing V10 performance. They describe the design as a cab-backward design with sweeping side-glass, and sheetmetal where planes and curves intersect in 8 unexpected ways - whatever that means. It will offer radar base crash-avoidance technology and chassis control including active steering and air springing (sounds like that Bosch deal may be imminent). There is no mention of AWD or the different wheel base options that are also supposed to be here in 2007. They are also saying the LF-A supercar is being tested in Nurburgring. Sounds like that car is approved or very near approval to go.

BTW - MT is also saying the next LS may be unveiled at the October Tokyo auto show.

Wbwynn - I wouldn't worry too much about Ipod - that's a given. I am hearing that DVD entertainment systems with the screens built into the rear seat headrests will be standard or, at a minimum an option.

syswei

They are also saying the LF-A supercar is being tested in Nurburgring.

There's actually a video of it in testing:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105484

chris65amg

I approve of the direction Lexus is going. Styling, at least, seems to be improving and developing a very chic look. I think that the LS will be at least 330hp. And the hybrid will probably be 410hp+ to compete with BMW 760i and Mercedes-Benz S600. I'm really wishing for a LWB model as well.

Intersecting in 8 unexpected ways, eh? Kind of like one of those pictures that's a vase and two people's faces, eh? :P

oac

All of these sounds so yum ! And if this car is to make it to the Oct Tokyo Motor Show, Lexus is doing a fine job of shrouding it in mystery so far !!

WRT to the motor in the MY2007 LS, I sure hope it puts out more than 315HP. Heck, their new 2GR 3.5L motor in the IS350 is pumping out 310HP, so a V8 4.6L motor in the LS will have to put down more than 340HP if it is to compete against the rumored higher engined new S-classes. The 4.6L will not be based on boring out the old 4.3L motor to wring an extra 0.3L displacement, so chances are Lexus can truly tweak their new V8 GR engine setup for a much higher output than the old 4.3L produces. At least, that is my hope....

chris65amg

I'm glad that the new 4.6L isn't just a 4.3L with .3L added. That would truly.... not be as impressive as I would like. I fogot about that new 3.5L V6. They can't get away with doing 310 hp with the LS. Yay. I'm expecting at least 330hp and 350 torque.

callmedrfill

400 for the Hybrid :surprise:

Place your bets!

DrFill

syswei

We'll have to see. I think Lexus has a history of tuning the LS engine a bit more toward luxury. If I recall, before the new GS came out, the LS had 10 hp less than the GS430, and a bit less torque as well.

ljflx

syswei - If they weren't radicalizing (if that's not a word, I just made it one) the body style I'd agree with you. But a bolder, more radical body style will beget increased HP and performanve. Why on earth would you do one without the other? That'd be dumb planning, dumb business and a half baked solution. The luxury will certainly be there but there will be an increased emphasis on sport and performance in this next car. I think you'll see a bigger engine that will find its way into the GS, GX, LX (remember that is due in 2007 also) and SC (also due in 2007 or early 2008 on the heels of the LS just like 2001) as well. I'd bet at least 330HP, 340HP is more likely and 350HP wouldn't surprise me. The hybrid will likely be 430-450HP and the next question is do they also bring out a 550+HP super LS or is this V10 equivalent that car. I was told that they would have 2 hybrids - an upper class one (a super V8 hybrid equivalent) and a super class one (a V12 hybrid equivalent in long-wheel base only). But the latter may not arrive until 2008. The models are supposed to be LS460 (gas), LS500 (hybrid1) and LS600 (hybrid2). The LS500 was also supposed to have a GT tuned version as an option. It's possible that they will use a V10 equiv hybrid as an in-between solution instead. Remember, the gas car will disappear at some point in this next model run.

OAC - If they really get the car into Tokyo in October, then it is amazing that they have kept things this quiet, with virtually no spy pix or sketches.

syswei

I have no doubt that the base LS will be higher performing than today's base LS. Also there is no doubt that there will be higher-end versions than base with the new generation, including hybrid and possibly GT. However with the base engine I don't know how high they'll go...I would venture a guess that once there is both a LS460 and GS460, the GS460 will have more hp and torque.

To me personally it doesn't matter a great deal...even 310 or 320 or whatever is more than adequate for a sedan, for my purposes. 350 would only give us a better chance of having bragging rights vs MB.

ljflx

That may be what Lexus wants.

When the GS gets this new V8 engine it may very well have 10-15 more HP than the LS. Same thing happened year after year with an E430 vs. an S430. The engine is powering a smaller car.

BTW - there was a good story in yesterdays NY Times re energy efficiency. The Japanese just seem to be ahead of everyone's curve on this. But as it relates to cars it is Toyota that will go the efficiency route and Lexus the power and bragging route.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/04/business/worldbusiness/04energy.html?

chris65amg

Toyota wants the frugalty side of hybrids and Lexus gets the no-compromises I-am-environmentally-conscious-look-at-me-aren't-I-cool route.

jchan2

from those Lexus insiders?

I'd like to know about not just the redesigned LS, but also the next generation ES and Camry...

ljflx

Start a board.

We've got enough problems here trying to figure the LS out. Some of us are also interested in the HPX and the next LX.

I thought I read that the next ES was 2007 though. If the Camry gets a hybrid in 2006 I think the ES will too, if not in 2006 then in 2007. But supposedly the next ES will make a major breakaway from the Camry. That's all I know.

oac

Alrighty guys, I am here in Tokyo and went out today in search of news about the next LS. My source here tells me that the LS is the tightest and closely held secret by Lexus, due in large part ot its very conservative roots. However, CARTOP, one of Japan's respectable car mag has a SCOOP in their July 2005 edition on the 2007 LS and the next Toyota Supra, complete with engine specs and, in the case of the Supra, an actual picture of the car.

SCOOP news according to CARTOP:

2007 LS600h - 5L V8-hybrid rated at 450HP. Due out Sept 2006.
The picture is a sketch, but it looks sooooo goooooddddddd, it is simply unbelievable....Nothing like a Lexus about this car. Rather, think Audi-BMW blend - Audi in looks, BMW in stance....If someone can tell me how to get a scan of the sketch here, I'd do it....

2006 IS350 - 3.5L V6 rated at 315HP (recall, the new spec sheet from Canada has this car rated at 310HP).

2007 SupraGT - 4L (3954cc) V8 (4UZ-GE) rated at 360HP (265kW) @ 6800rpm, and 411Nm of torque (someone translate this to Ib ft for us Americanites) at 4800rpm. The design is not heart-warming, imo... Think of the Oldsmobile Aurora in frontal looks.... eeeewwwwww !!!!! About the only thing going for it is its muscular stance; very commanding road presence, though bloated-looking, imo.

Hope any of these are of interest to many of you. I still have a few more days here in Tokyo before heading out to Seoul, so if I find anything else local, I'll sure post.

merc1

A V8 in a Supra? That sounds more like a Corvette competitor than a 350Z challenger. Did the article say when or who they're targeting with this car?

M

oac

No it doesn't appear to, Merc1. But its all in Japanese anyway, so I cannot tell. I'll have to check with my colleague here to do a better translation than I currently have. Its pretty late here Tuesday night, so it'll have to wait till tomorrow when I can give you a clearer answer to your question. But it is certainly a V8 clearly spelled, you gotta believe it....Besides, can you see a Toyota V6 pumping out 360HP ????

lexusguy

The new Supra will not be competing with the Z or S2000. Toyota is pushing it up to compete with the GT-R, Vette, and Cayman S.

merc1

Aw shux, there goes my only hope of owning a Toyota. I guess that Lexus sports car will be aimed even higher then. I really would have liked them to do a 350Z competitior with the usual Toyota quality and a much better interior than the Z.

M

syswei

I guess that Lexus sports car will be aimed even higher then

Definitely...the video (post no. 220) said >500hp, $100k. Not for me but it will help the corporate image.

ljflx

Merc - I'd be surprised if they don't build a base Supra to compete with the Z.

If you ever buy or lease a Toyota product we want photos of you in it with proof of identity. I'm still digesting your friend buying an ES330 under your nose with you milling around a Lexus showroom.

ljflx

OAC - Is this what you saw by any chance?

http://www.a5.hu/cgi-bin/a5/page.cgi?db=news&page=cikk&table=hirek&param=3&ID=10429

Now Road and Track also has a brief on the LS600H in its July Ampersand on page 23 with a photochop. Unfortunately the website only goes thru the June ampersand so I can't post a link. The car looks great and somehow supports a bold sport look but maintains the classic look as well. But I don't see 8 intersecting lines anywhere in the design. The tires fit the entire wheelwell. The tail lights are a bit BMW 5-series-esque without its fluted look. This photochop seems to set the car up to look even better in a LWB variant. The brief says Lexus plans to upgrade its sporty and enviromental sensitive image simultaneously with the car and that rumors are it will be 500HP - 400 from the new V8 engine and 100 from the battery. At least we have some leakage in the Lexus armor about this new LS starting to develop. I'd say - based on this brief - you get at least a 340HP base car and maybe as high as 360HP.

syswei

I am of the belief that generally these shouldn't be relied on. I think they are usually based on the direction that other cars from the same company have taken, plus whatever marketing gush the company execs have spouted...as opposed to the artist/photochopper having actually seen a prototype vehicle.

jchan2

we'll never know the absolute truth until Lexus tells us...

Let the waiting begin...

oac

Is this what you saw by any chance?

Simple answer. No...

The sketch in the CARTOP mag is a cross between the Audi A8 and the BMW 7-series. The grille is Audi's and the *gait* or muscularity is 7, with big "phat" wheels (larger than an 18" rim definitely). But a sketch nonetheless. I'd love to post the pic; maybe after I return back to the States next week I'd be able to...

But the R&T article you quote here is interesting. 500HP for the LS600h ? That'd be much higher than the CARTOP *scoop*. But the style you describe sounds eerily close to the one I saw in the mag here. Sporty, yet classic look. And the wheels certainly do fit the wheel well with narry a gap to see. We'll have to wait for more news to spill out about this car, I am afraid....

lexusguy

Well, the IS500 is rumored to be using a 5.0L 400hp V8, so that would make sense if the same engine was used with an electric motor in the LS600.

chris65amg

The idea of an IS500 still cracks me up. Don't know why. Perhaps the 8 intersecting lines in the new LS are too sophisticated for our eyes. :P

ljflx

Well that other car is a toned down version of the car I linked. I agree with syswei though that such photochops are based on what they've heard from the company rather than hard eveidence.

Sorry to hear about your LS. I'm sure they will restore it and your attitude will improve. These things can be so frustrating but remember they are replacable material things. I'd bring home some flowers. Your wife will appreciate the boost.

lexusguy

I dont think they will. You'll notice Toyota killed off the MR2 Spyder and Celica. The Z already has competition from the S2000, the RX-8, and the new Eclipse. I think Toyota probably feels (and correctly so IMO) that market is already saturated. However, as of right now, Japan has NOTHING in the $50-60K performance coupe market. Mazda, Honda\Acura and Mitsubishi cant compete there, so it makes more sense for Nissan and Toyota to duke it out at that level.

merc1

If you ever buy or lease a Toyota product we want photos of you in it with proof of identity. I'm still digesting your friend buying an ES330 under your nose with you milling around a Lexus showroom.

Contrary to popular belief I don't dislike Toyota/Lexus so much as to talk everyone I know out of buying one and/or me not wanting to drive their cars. BTW, it wasn't a person my age, it was a friend's mother who bought the ES. Nobody I know my age likes any Lexuses except the SC430 and previous GS.

I was a fan of the last Supra, I thought everyone knew that.

M

ljflx

Just curious - do any friends your age drive a Mercedes?

oac

Sorry to hear about your LS. I'm sure they will restore it and your attitude will improve. These things can be so frustrating but remember they are replacable material things. I'd bring home some flowers. Your wife will appreciate the boost.

Thanks, Len. Really appreciated.

oac

Here is an update from another respectable car mag published here in Japan - Best Car - June 2005 issue, with a full page of news and pictures on several new Lexus(es):

2007 LS460: 4.6L V8 350HP. Available for sale August 2006. Starts at 8 million yen (roughly $80K). One small problem - the pic of the car in white is just not doing it for me..... I am hoping that picture is not the real one cos that would be as bland as vanilla, especially the frontal look can be mistaken for a stretched Acura RL.... eeeeewww !!

Lexus 450GT (the actual car derived from the LF-A concept): This car is a real beauty. Due out Sept 2007. Comes with a 4.5L V10 rated at 500HP. Price starts at 10 million Yen (roughly $100K). The car is so sweet.... front and back... If there is one *must-have* Lexus sports car, this IS IT. Period. Low slung, muscular, and aerodynamic. Has side vents, and two somewhat large vents at the front bumper level. Of course, the patented tri-pipe exhaust looks sooooooo yum !!!

IS500 5.0L V8 with output >400HP. The car debuts in Sept 2007. Price not announced yet. Bulls-eye target is the BMW M3.

IS350 3.5L V6, has a 320HP output in Japan. Goes on sale, get this, July 2005. Price not announced yet !

IS350C - no engine spec provided. But the car is scheduled to debut in October 2006, as a MY2007 release. Pure LF-C concept in style....Yum !

And here is one many have not heard before....

A picture of a new RAV4-sized Lexus SUV to go head-to-head against the X3. The car debuts in the Spring of 2007. Complete with a picture (in teal-color), the car looks like a smaller-sized HPX concept. Looks realllyyyy good (Len, you will like it).... Double yum !!

BTW, the REAL picture of the newly redesigned Camry was also shown (in gold). It looks like a junior brother of the Avalon, and spots the Avalon's 3.5L V6, but no output or debut date were provided.... Doesn't really interest me, just an FYI to anyone interested...

And there is plenty more of other cars, of course.... The GT-R concept is dyn-o-mite in looks !!! WOW !!!!! If Infiniti/Nissan ever makes that car in exact concept, it will blow away the competition in pure meaness ! Darn !!! Of course, to some it will look over-the-top, but to me with so much vanilla designs these days, this is one no-nonsense concept that is sure to please hard-core designers (Designman, anywhere here ???)

Well, gents, this is it for me. I am in Korea through Friday and head back home. Don't expect any more FYI's but my colleague here in Tokyo will send me some more info on the LS as soon as he gets it. He promises by end of June or sooner... We'll see....

jchan2

A picture of a new RAV4-sized Lexus SUV

What does it look like?

lexusguy

So that means Toyota has officially green lighted the Lexus super coupe?

oac

According to the car mag, that is a 100% certainty. That super coupe looks grrrrreeeeeaaaaattttt !

merc1

Just curious - do any friends your age drive a Mercedes?

Yes - two. One has a previous generation E-Class and the other a C-Class.

M

lexusguy

Cool. Lexus getting bigger and better should only further solidify them as the US luxury leader. What they need to do now, is convince Europe, and Japan.

oac

A picture of a new RAV4-sized Lexus SUV

What does it look like?

Like the HPX concept, except that the rims don't quite fill the wheel well as in the concept. The latter can be found on lexus.com

callmedrfill

if you haven't seen it in person. The concept was quite large, around the size of a SRX..

If it looks anything like that, it'll make that mini-Acura ute/X3 look like day-old eggs!

DrFill

lexusguy

Maybe its just me, but I found the HPX (I think it was later termed "LF-X" meaning Lexus future vehicle, which would make sense if its going into production) to be rather heavily inspired by Infiniti's FX.

ljflx

Not at all. In the paint this is an entirely different vehicle than the FX. Think a sexy minivan that wants to be an SUV as opposed to a full scale SUV like the FX. The HPX is also much better looking and naturally. is lower to the ground. You need to see it - you can't go by the pictures.

callmedrfill

If you stand next to the HPX, you wouldn't see much of the FX at all.

It is less aggressive in stance, more vivacious female than roided-out alpha male, but is beautiful all the same. And noticable larger than the FX. Doesn't need "Dubs" to have road presence.

Unfortunately, the HPX, at that size, may never be.

OR it could be realized, in lesser effect, in the next Highlander, which will grow in size somewhat.

The two (new FX and concept HPX) were at the same NYIAS that I attended, and I saw beauty in both, for different reasons.

The HPX came across as a a class above the FX, while the FX is a rather one-dimensional Speed-SUV, with a small, less than luxurious interior, with seats that reminded me of large baseball mitts.

DrFill

lexusguy

A new SUV from Lexus will have to slot below the RX330 in size. They already have the RX, the GX, and the JX that should replace the LX. They dont need another big SUV. What they need is something to compete with the RDX, the X3, and whatever M-B ends up throwing into this segment of the lux mini-ute.

callmedrfill

The styling cues of the HPX may carry-over to a entry-level SUV for $30k.

If I were Lexus, I, personally, woulda made the HPX as is, instead of the Americanized Land Cruiser Prada (4Runner) a Lexus.

Sharing the platform with the 4Runner saves A TON of gash, but making what could be, in essence, a 7 seater RX for the $45-55k class might keep more Lexus buyers in the fold, and not make them go from car-based SUV to truck-based, as they have to now.

The market has a wealth of trucks with leather and wood. But not too many car-based SUVs with the size to carry 7, the lessons learned from the RX, and the style to make it look elegant, and not like a remodeled minivan.

The RX re-invented the SUV market. An HPX would do the same, and sell more than 30k units a year, which is common for that class (Escalade, FX, GX, Navigator)

How about cylinder deactivation on the LS? Improves economy 10-15%. Chrysler and Honda have reintroduced that trick.

I think a 350HP Lexus V8 on the LS will get 20/25 EPA.

450HP Hybrid - 30/26.

DrFill