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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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    ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    Lexus is doing very well without the flagship LS. Clearly there will be a huge increase of sales next year. There is an increase in the number of stores. I use stores because there are dealers with multiple stores. Are there figures for the total number of stores now compared to last year?
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Interesting story, tag. I also tried out an LX before buying my new LS, since I was losing my Navigator. Loved how it drove and felt, but the third row? Fuggetaboutit! I would just take those damn things out and shove them up into a shelf in my garage. They're useless. Since I actually USE a third row frequently, I'll stick with the Fords or get a QX-56 which has the fold flat seats. GM can shove their "new" SUVs, they still have live axles and 100lbs of seats to take out.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Yeah, we're on the same page.

    TagMan
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    So, although Toyota didn't design that into their new 4-runner, much to my surprise and dismay, nor the GX, even more to my amazement, I bought a Mountaineer. Certainly hope the next round gets some innovative stuff back there. The Sequoia is the one that really needs it to be competitive, IMO. The LX is too short for a third row, so you just don't expect one. I expect a lot from the redesign, but Toyota is known for continuous improvement, not radical redesign.....
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    houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    IMO nothing approaches the LX for overall comfort, utility, and luxury. Admittedly, we seldom use the third row (except to stack groceries behind). I consider the third row a very minor inconvenience in relation to all the other great attributes of this truck. I have never known anyone who actually owned one who did not feel the same way.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    IMO nothing approaches the LX for overall comfort, utility, and luxury. Admittedly, we seldom use the third row (except to stack groceries behind). I consider the third row a very minor inconvenience in relation to all the other great attributes of this truck. I have never known anyone who actually owned one who did not feel the same way.

    Given the limitation . . . LX owners would HAVE to feel that way . . . meaning that they have a minor use for the third row. The dysfunctional third row design forces it to be a low priority for LX owners. And for those who's needs make the third row a higher priority . . . well . . . they are unfortunately left to choose other alternatives. Which is too bad, IMO, because we would have liked to own that LX and enjoy the comfort, utility, and luxury you speak of.

    As I said previously, the incorporation of fold-flat third row seats in the next generation of Lexus SUVs would be a welcome improvement, IMO.

    TagMan
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    nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    It is my maybe incorrect understanding that the next LS will be based off of the Sequoia platform.
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    houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    I have heard both ways. Originally the new LX was going to be based on the Sequoia. Now I think this has changed and that the old platform will be updated. This is kind of confusing and I could be wrong. I hope this clears things up!! :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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    ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    The Landcruiser isn't going away despite all the rumors. It'd be crazy to retire a legendary name like that. The little I know here is that both the TLC and LX will be the same again with a stretched platform and the LX will be made very opulent with items not available on the TLC and will have the normal more luxurious and quieter ride.

    One thing Lexus has yet to do that I see MB doing is put the rear DVD players in the headrest of the front seats rather than mounted in the roof. I'm not sure if that DVD option is an available option on the S class but it is a featured option on the GL. The GL would be my first choice right now if I were SUV shopping even though I much prefer the GX styling. Re the LS - I'd have made that DVD option a headrest option rather than a headliner option if I were Lexus.
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    feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    Many thanks ya'all for all of the good updates on the LS600. I'm waiting (impatiently)for it next year, even if it doesn't have the Bose suspension.

    On the matter of the LX, you may want to consider the RAV4 V6 Limited. It is much faster, gets much better MPG 21C-28HW, the upgraded sound is excellant with line through for Ipod and bluetooth to boot. A downside could be that it will only pull 3500 pounds (which is all I need) and I miss the keyless feature on our LSs. That power causes me to feel like I'm driving the 430. I love it.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    On the matter of the LX, you may want to consider the RAV4 V6 Limited.

    Yikes! Do these vehicle even belong in the same sentence?

    TagMan
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Re the LS - I'd have made that DVD option a headrest option rather than a headliner option if I were Lexus.

    Definately.

    TagMan
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    sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    In the LS the DVD entertainment system is only available with the 4-seater configuration. Idiotic, imho. Don't they realize that DVD entertainment is largely for KIDS, and that families with kids want 5 seats?
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    ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Syswei - Couldn't agree more. It's an immediate option taken by me but I want it in the headrest. Otherwise I go locally and spend $1600 to get it done.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Otherwise I go locally and spend $1600 to get it done.

    Yes do that. Do not pass go. Go directly to install monitors behind headrests. Worth every penny.

    TagMan
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    sysweisyswei Member Posts: 1,804
    Where does the player unit go?
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Where does the player unit go?

    In some of these installations, the player is a slot-load integrated into the monitor unit!! Amazing.

    That allows for independent or linked viewing by passengers. One can watch a movie and the other play a video game, or watch a different (or the same) movie. Wireless headphones and all that. Very cool.

    TagMan
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    houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    on the LX and then I will shut up. I picked up a bench for the hallway off our kitchen this morning and had to go thru the Origami strapping up ceremony, etc. Kind of made me feel like I was out riding the range doing all that manual labor. Pain in the butt...yes...but I still love it!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    lol. I feel for you. I KNOW that the LX is great, and you have every reason to love it. But it's not for wives like mine that would need to put those seats up and down often, depending on how many kids are coming along, or how much "stuff" needs to be placed in the back. Know what I mean?

    Fold-flat is simply easier and more user-friendly.

    TagMan
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    excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    First I would agree with Tagman that the new generation of Lexus vehicles is designed to take on BMW more directly than before. I think the LS 460 will be a significant challenger here--regardless of some mixed reviews (as I recall, the history of automobile reviews hasn't always given the LS its due, particularly from some types of Eurocentric viewpoints). And it's not as if the 7-series has had universal praise either.

    As for the RSES, I think Lexus should offer it without the 'Executive Class Seating Package' for four persons. After all, it's offered in Europe, why not in the U.S.?

    http://media.autobild.de/bild/3/151060696dee35a312bb6127087c5db3_1.jpg

    Additionally, while I like the elegance of a drop-down ceiling monitor, it precludes the possibility of the oh-so-seductive panoramic roof. The ES 350 has one, why not put a larger one on the LS? :)
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    feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    "On the matter of the LX, you may want to consider the RAV4 V6 Limited.

    Yikes! Do these vehicle even belong in the same sentence"    ?

    Oh my goodness, so sorry I offended you tagman. Maybe they don't belong in the same sentence, considering that the RAV4 is so superior to the LX in some very practical ways, including the much smaller turning diameter. My wife's LS430 Ultra and my LS430 are both enjoying a rest while we toy around and enjoy this new addition. Maybe we like it so much since it's a replacement for the GMC Suburban.

    Don't knock it until you've checked it out. You may be in for a surprise.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Oh my goodness, so sorry I offended you tagman.

    No offense taken at all.

    I was just surprised to hear someone compare a RAV4 to a Lexus LX. They seem like apples and oranges. And believe me, I am not offended in any way. I do not own either of them. You must admit, those two vehicle would not typically be compared in any of the publications, either.

    A business associate I know recently purchased the new generation RAV4 for his wife, but I then noticed shortly afterwards that he was driving it a lot. When I asked him about that, he said he likes it so much, he drives it when he gets the chance!

    Must be something to it!

    :)

    TagMan
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    ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Just my 2 cents but my crystal ball says if the market expands and you don't hold your existing market share as the same or greater share of that expansion than you lost market share. If you argue that you didn't lose one customer to the guy who grew a lot in that market expansion than that same crystal ball says you're not identifying your potential new customers well or building product that gets them to buy your cars. So it's either you lost market share because people passed on your product as not suitable or you attracted a far lower percent of the growing market expansion than you had in the past for whatever reason you choose to cite. Either way you look at it you lost customers you had or would have had. I hardly think BMW is not building suitable product, it's simply that someone has targeted them and is gaining share fast. It's also possible to have growth of 10% or even 20% and still lose share. The two things are mutually exclusive measurements.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Thank you for the reinforcement!

    I think I handled the spirited discussion very well, level-headed and with respect, IMO.

    Unfortunately, after its conclusion there were some posters that lost their "class" on this board and that is a shame, IMO.

    As we said before, you and I are on the same page with this business perspective.

    TagMan
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    ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    No problem Tag - this is simple math and we're usually on the same page in business matters. But now we need to get back to the LS. I just wish I had news to steer the subject matter in that direction.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    No problem Tag - this is simple math and we're usually on the same page in business matters. But now we need to get back to the LS. I just wish I had news to steer the subject matter in that direction.

    In that case, let me ask you about the next two sales reports from Lexus. I expect they will be skewed regarding the LS?

    TagMan
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    justinstafordjustinstaford Member Posts: 7
    Dear Ljflx

    You and this person TagMan are really curious.

    I just found that tagMan has posted

    "Fifteen Hundred" + posts in just one year. That is simply astonishing.

    Is this person paid by some marketing company?

    If not, its simply amazing. His capacity to be on computer everyday for this long is simply mind-boggling.

    In my estimate he might be spending at least 2-3 hours on edmunds everyday and God knows how many more on other sites!

    Other posters like nvbanker, dewey, merc1 are also simply amazing. I salute you!

    Not to steer away from this very interesting discussion but these Lexus LS cars and the discussion on new 2007 model as well as this ENORMOUS high end luxurious marques board is astonishing.
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    nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Doesn't sound like it. Is there a problem with a car enthusiast participating in productive discussions about their passion, and giving assistance to folks who need information on their cars, or prospective buys? Personally, I appreciate tagman's input - it's always even tempered and informational.
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    justinstafordjustinstaford Member Posts: 7
    Dea Ljflx

    I just read your profile and I was curious which company were you CFO at? Anyhow, your profile is impressive, it seems you are almost a generation ahead of me and your experience should be valuable in financial as well as car matters.
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    By "curious" do you mean intellectually inquisitive?
    If so, then I agree with you.

    Are you sure you aren't "Steve" with a different moniker?
    Your writing style as well as your highlighting seem to be exactly the same.
    Funny. Steve mentioned he was an amateur racer too.

    This is getting curiouser and curiouser.....
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    justinstafordjustinstaford Member Posts: 7
    Dear NVBanker

    I do not see a problem with car enthusiasts, but I am simply shocked. Infact you are the king of posters it seems.

    You have posted FIVE THOUSAND large over the years. I havent reviewed all the posts in last 5 years on this HELM board and Lexus board but I am finding that there are probably a dozen or so posters who are posting hundreds of posts everyday on the same topic.

    I am not judging whether its productive or not but these
    dozen guys are highly dedicated. Some of them have spent years on this board, thats a significant chunk of your life, especially if you are not getting paid to do this and just sitting in front of a computer typing these interesting posts.

    I can tell you I cannot do it for more than a week perhaps. And I am a very passionate enthusiast and amateur racer. Thats why I have high respect for your capacity to post so much for so many years.

    I do find that Tagman poster really articulates with great keenness. He is simply amazing.
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    justinstafordjustinstaford Member Posts: 7
    I do not know who is steve? Is this some friend of yours?

    I use a particular style of writing taught in high-school and college electives and may be thousands of others use it too.

    The reason why I am so interested in these dozen posters is because as I am finding 99% of the posts are posted by just these 10-12 guys with hardly any input from the rest of the millions of other people on this planet, which is simply amazing.

    Although we are here to discuss LS what strikes me is that the people behind this discussion are doing it with such passion for hours and hours everyday on the computer.

    I have found that when I cannot do something which others can I find deep respect for them and you are one of those guys.

    Thanks hpowders
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    Sorry if I'm wrong. I just find it curious that you just began posting on October 3rd on Edmunds, and would care about how many posts certain people here have accumulated over the years unless you have actually been posting here previously under a different name and have some experience with the posters you mention.
    If I am wrong, I apologize to you and will never mention it again.

    Welcome to the 2007 Lexus LS board. Looking forward to your input here and on HELM. And yes, the regular posters here and on the HELM board are passionate about cars and some of us don't realize how many hours we do spend posting.
    Thank you for reminding me!
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    justinstafordjustinstaford Member Posts: 7
    Its just that when I clicked on 2007 Lexus LS I was taken to post number 1 and so I started reading it and as I read and read, I found it to be a pandora's box.

    My god, after 10-15 minutes by the time I came to page 5 and found that the same posters were posting similar talk again and again. So I got confused!

    I asked myself, if somebody has already made their point why rehash it again and again. But may be it was being done to hammer the issue hard again and again year after year.

    So I started to look for the poster IDs and after a couple of hours found that just 10-12 guys have posted 99% (or close) of these posts.

    So my question is: Is this some kind of prison cell discussion where only 10-12 same guys participate or is it just 3-4 guys with mutiple IDs which is unthinkable to me.

    Again thanks for welcoming me. All I want to know is whether in your opinion a used 750i would be great or the new LS.

    Since it is a new model, I am worried about reliability although lexus has been good about. Additionally I might drop in this forum to chit-chat with you occasionally if you don't mind.
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    ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Tag - Well the next one for sure. I find it hard to believe no LS 460 sales were reported in September. Title probably doesn't transfer until authorized by Toyota even if the cars have reached port. So they had control even if the cars did land in port. The LS is an enormously profitable car and with a 25% gain in unit sales in September and that being a quarter end I have to believe Toyota is skewing revenue and profits into the next quarter. I'd figure out a way to do that if I reported those type of numbers. Talk about financial luxury. If the cars were indeed in port I'd expect October to be an inflated month. Don't know about November though. That could be a normal month but I think normal for the LS is going to be 3500+ for awhile. October could easily be 5,000+. They have 10,000+ cars pre-ordered (I read that somewhere) so they will ship to get those orders fulfilled quickly I would think.
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    hpowdershpowders Member Posts: 4,330
    If you are seriously interested in a 750i vs LS460, drive each one and see which one you like.

    I have no way of knowing for sure, but if any first year vehicle will be virtually bulletproof, it will be the new LS.

    Of course anybody can post, but if a discussion is about a particular model only, it is wise to stay on topic and not compare it to other models. There are plenty of comparison threads for that.

    Good luck with your "statistical analysis."
    Let me know about any other trends you find.
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    ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    "You and this person TagMan are really curious"

    If that's a compliment I'll take it. I've never been called curious before though, at least not to my knowledge. I'll pass on revealing the CFO data and just say it was a good sized business and a trendsetter. I don't know about generations as you often don't know ages of folks you're talking to but I was a CFO at 32 years old and worked at the same company for 15 years. I haven't checked my profile in a long time but I'm long out of the corporate arena and own my own business these days.
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    His capacity to be on computer everyday for this long is simply mind-boggling.

    For better or worse, I'm "wired" and "connected" as they say. Computers all over the house and so freakin many of them at work. Many of them set to instantly bring up the Edmunds forum.

    I should have never quit those P.A. (posters anonymous) meetings. ;)

    TagMan
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    tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    lj - Thanks for the explanation. You're not kidding when you say "financial luxury".

    I wonder just how many cars can be handled at port of entry, though. They may need to spread out into early November, which would further skew the numbers a bit.

    TagMan
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    drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I saw 53 posts today, I would've sworn the LS' pricing package would've came out today! :)

    If any car is worth buying over a new LS, it would be the 1995+ 7-series, pre-Bangle. That ride was SWEET! ;)

    The Next LS will be a crushing blow to the aging-not-so-gracefully 7-series.

    DrFill
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    dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    do you guys think it could be a little [non-permissible content removed] for tat in the future. I mean competition is good right? Lexus didn't stand by on the new LS and say well the old one is fine, let's just give it a face lift. No, they went back to the drawing board. Now, both the 7, and the A8 will be due for a platform change in the next 2 to 3 years if I'm not mistaken. Won't both of these makers go back to the drawing board and try to re-write the standard in class, and so "possibly" take market share from Lexus, Benz, or whoever else is playing in the league?
    Hypothetical I realize, but as good as Lexus is at marketing, I wouldn't say that no one else can take a chunk out. Although Lexus seems to do it better than most.
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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    A bunch of posts (take a guess which ones) have been moved to the HELM forum, where they're much more on-topic. Thanks!

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

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    oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Phew !!!! Me too, Doc... When I checked in here this am, I couldn't believe it, and this is after Kirstie moved some out of the thread.. wow ! and we still don't have pricing !!

    BTW, in Japan, Lexus is scrambling to increase capacity at the Tahara plant due to the larger-than-anticipated LS460 orders from Japan. As of last count, there were 8,000 orders, while Lexus planned for monthly 1500 LS460s in Japan.... If Japan orders are these large off the gate, and the US orders are equally large off the gate, how exactly does Lexus plan to meet demand for this car ? Its scarily good for Lexus, isn't it... or as Len would put it "financial luxury".

    Len, my next trip to Japan and Korea is next June.
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    ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    As a substantial TM stockholder. I have noted in a post a while back that it is my opinion that Lexus should definitely concentrate on Japan and Europe even at the expense of the USA. I will be in Tokyo two weeks from now and will try to visit one or two dealers there to assess what's going on.
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    excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    It seems that Lexus agrees with you. Just judging by the websites, Japan and Europe have had far more effort put into promoting and providing detailed information about the LS 460. The 'extended worldwide launch' saw shows in Japan, Europe, and the US...with major reveals in each continent. With regards to options, the RSES is available in a variety of iterations, unlike the N American market. Europe and Japan will be getting more safety features. It appears also that the LS 600h and LS 600h L are being both offered, at least in Japan. The SWB model takes the lead overall in terms of volumes, but the SWB in the international markets has more feature options...

    One hiccup has been that Australia is delayed until March 2007, evidently because of a corporate decision to provide it will only fully-optioned vehicles, thus necessitating a wait. Supposedly this is happaning in the Middle East as well.

    Anyhow, the LS is getting a major international push, moreso than ever before. The US market is still getting a significant amount of publicity, but the focus has shifted a bit--and the options available has also spread out in favor of international markets getting more options in some areas.

    And the latest news is that LS 460 orders in Japan have reached the 9,000 mark...plus with dealerships in the US already filling their lists and selling out through the next couple months, it'll be hard to get specific LS 460s with the color/options wanted as likely most of them are already taken!
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    ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    It's like a magazine subscription. If you're not a subscriber you get more attention and a better deal than an existing renewing customer - or so it seems. So we're a renewable base and they are new found territory. The safety issues though are likely more about legal jurisdiction issues than accomodation.
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    excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Well as long as they keep the 'subscribers' happy that's fine with me. I am looking forward to my Taste of Lexus experience.
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    baller4ever85baller4ever85 Member Posts: 14
    The base price is
    LS460-$61,000
    LS460L-$71,000
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    excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Confirmed:

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2006100641656

    October 20th release!
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    nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    Any one want to guess the pricing for the LS600hL?

    My guess is either $81,000, or more likely $86,000, just a tad under the S550.
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