Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans

knr5knr5 Member Posts: 85
I currently drive a 2003.5 Infiniti G35 6MT sedan that I love. Since I am in the snowbelt, I have a winter tire/wheel package for December to March. This package works really well. However, I keep wondering whether I should go for an AWD sedan the next time around. [BTW, My wife drives a 2002 Subaru Outback wagon and we have owned three other Subarus in the past.]
I was looking at the 2005 Audi A4 Quattro and the 2005 Subaru GT Limited. I have driven the GT and the 2004 A4 Quattro (V6). I enjoyed the GT and could live with that even though it lacks a few amenities I got used to. The A4 was tamer by comparison (which was not a fatal flaw) but was a little too small in the rear passenger area. I am not 100% sure but I thought the 2005 Audi A4 was a little bigger in this regard. So, it may be in the running. In addition, at a slightly higher price point, there are the BMW 330xi and the Volvo S60R sedans.
I would appreciate your views on the merits of the four vehicles I mentioned. Also, would you please indicate if leasing or purchasing may be the wiser choice for the sedan you suggest. Thanks!:)


  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I am assuming you mean Subaru Legacy GT and I've adjusted the title and categories to reflect that ... :)
  • knr5knr5 Member Posts: 85
    Yes, I did mean the 2005 Subaru Legacy GT. Thanks!:)
  • premiumdetailpremiumdetail Member Posts: 4
    Audi invented AWD and has years ahead of the rest. My Uncle in law works for Ford developing transmission. It's actually a company contracted by them. They also test drive train, basically everything dealing with traction, well the wheels spinning. He's worked there since he was 22 out of engineering school. He seen my car and the first thing he say, "they have the best awd in the business". Goes on to tell me he has driven every AWD & 4WD vehicle, which he has, and Audi is the best. They invented and perfected taking one wheel that's slipping and putting the power to the wheels that aren't. He says, "there unbelivable in the rain and snow". Up in Michigan where he works several of his coworkers drive Audi's and get alot of heat,because there contracted by Ford.

    My mom has a '01 AWD Outback and I've driven it many of time and it drives nice. Once to test it in the snow I slammed on the brakes and it didn't stop nearly as fast of my Quattro. The Quattro takes over with the brakes and the slip differental (ESC). I would put up a link but your not allowed here.
  • natethomasnatethomas Member Posts: 11
    If you are comparing AWD systems braking isn't really part of the system. That has a lot to do with the tires and the braking system, especially in the snow. I have owned an outback ('99 and now an '05 XT) for the last six years. I went to college in Maine and on numerous occasions I was able to drive when othe cars with AWD and 4WD could not (this included Audi's). Audi's also are lower to the ground than Subaru's, which can inhibit their ability to drive when there is 5+ inches of snow on the ground. In term's of performance, the GT is well ahead of the Audi, especially if outfitted with some decent tires (the tires that Subaru puts on their cars, the Bridgestone RE92, are pretty horrible). The GT can reach 60 in around 5.6 and the Audi 3.0 needs around 7 seconds. The new engine in the upcoming A4 will make the car a bit faster, but still not as sprightly as the GT. The handling aspects of the two cars are probably pretty comparable but the price is definately in favor of the GT, which, when both cars are loaded, will run about $10,000 less than the A4.

  • knr5knr5 Member Posts: 85
    Thank you premiumdetail and natethomas for your detailed opinions. I wanted to point out another issue that poses problems if I choose the Audi.

    I have always admired Audis for their level of fit and finish and, genrally, for their looks. I also don't deny that its AWD system has been around a long time and has proven itself. My problem is that the resale value of Audis is abysmal, making them unsuitable for leasing. At the same time, the reliability of Audis is also very much in question, making an outright purchase not a bright idea!

    I am certainly not trying to bash Audis, I genuinely wish it made sense to go with the Audi. [I must admit that my brother owns a 2002 Audi S4 Avant and it has been trouble free so far.]
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Member Posts: 252
    The new A4 Avant should be very nice, but as you say it's about a 10K premium fully loaded. The 10K is pretty well spent but it's 10K. You can't go wrong with either one.


    I am a big Audi fan as well as a Subie fan. I think someone has to clear up the 4wd history for me. Audi claims they introduced 4wd tech to cars in 1980 in the Quattro Coupe. Subaru says it introduced 4wd tech in the Subaru Leonne 4wd Station wagon in 1971. So who was first? I mean had Audi designed it and not released it on a car until 1980?




    http://www.audi.com/com/en/new_cars/driveline_suspension/quattro/- quattro_history/quattro_history.jsp


  • waygrabowwaygrabow Member Posts: 214
    "At the same time, the reliability of Audis is also very much in question,"


    Consumer Reports recently put the Audi A4 on its list of most reliable cars, so their surveys apparently don't agree with this impression.


    natethomas- perhaps your superior snow handling in the Subi was due to tires or your driving skill. I find our A4 (with Blizzaks) to be an incredible car driving and stopping in poor traction conditions; almost feels like dry pavement. The dual zone automatic temperature control and heated seats are also appreciated in bad weather. You are correct that the low clearance can be a hindrance in deep snow (then I take the SUV), and the Subi GT, I am sure, has more acceleration.


    The Audi and Subaru are both good cars; just depends what features appeal to you most.
  • knr5knr5 Member Posts: 85
    buddhabman: Since the as per the claims of the respective companies (as found in brochures) Subaru introduced AWD wagons in 1971 and Audi in 1980, I guess Subaru was first to market at least!


    waygrabow: I get the Consumer Reports (along with Automobile and AutoWeek). The 2005 Buying Guide does give the A4 an average reliability rating (therby it is not precluded from being recommended). The Subaru Outback gets an above average rating on reliability. Generally AWD vehicles are higher-maintenance items, even Subaru, but the costs (including inconvenience) are significantly higher with the VW group!:)


    Notwithstanding my rationale above, I would have leased an S4 last week if I could have done so. Unfortunately, I am 15-18 months away from a purchase. The dealership had two 2004 S4's (V8) with stick shifts. It had all of the do-dads I like (e.g., premium sound) and none I dislike (I don't care for navigation systems, for example). The MSRP was over 53k but was marked down to 44k! It was VERY attractive for a lease! Maintenance is free for 4 years, 50 k miles!


    All this proves that when the product is great, the heart rules the head!:)
  • pedped Member Posts: 18
    The GT I looked loaded as close as I could come to my A4 1.8 Quattro 2004 was only a few grand less than the Audi. I paid 30k for a list price of 34,165. It had 300 miles and was certified and free maintanence for 45k. Yes the GT is quicker, 250 hp vs 170 hp but that isn't the whole story. Subs are good but fit, finish, detail, looks, the feel of the car, interio design...need I say more? BEsides in Sept the GT were new and dealers weren't giving much off, so sometimes you go with the better "value."

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd give credit to Subaru for implementing 4WD on a car platform first, and to Audi for AWD.


    Subarus came earlier but they had traditional center locking differential-style 4WD, low range even. They jacked up the suspension and even added skid plates. The world's truly first sport utility wagon was the 1973 Subaru Leone 4WD.


    Audi pioneered AWD (as opposed to 4WD), though, with a center differential that allowed full-time use of the system even on non-slippery surfaces.


    The reality is that both have extensive AWD experience and offer some of the best systems in the world at any price.


    Nav is rumored as an option for the GT this year, and I'd expect at least 3-4 additional features in the 2006 Subaru. But if you must have the goodies, Audi offers those for a bit more money. Only you can decide if they're worth it to you.


  • kevin111kevin111 Member Posts: 991
    "Consumer Reports recently put the Audi A4 on its list of most reliable cars, so their surveys apparently don't agree with this impression. "


    - Good to hear the Audi is making strides. The previous year's CR report on the A4 was below average reliability. Also, many of Audi's other cars are below average in reliability. I am hoping Audi is making strides in improving their whole line. Considering that I have seen a couple of new S4s (did not have a license plat yet) with rear break lights and other lights out (as well as exhaust tail pipes bouncing around). I am still curious about this.
  • jplymanjplyman Member Posts: 90
    If you really think about it these to car companies are more a like than most - they are known as non-comformist cars and not the popular car from there country. When you drive one of these cars you also make a statment. I've grown up on Subarus (my dad owns part of dealership) and my first new car was a subbie.. Great car no complaints.... I now drive an A4 and there is a difference in how it feels and I love the looks - subbie is becoming some what more comformist - baiscally it comes down to personal tatse I like rings over the stars and that is me.


    You won't go wrong with either car.
  • knr5knr5 Member Posts: 85
    I agree with your comments in general. While the similarity between Audi and Subaru stems from AWD, there are other parallels also that we could draw. I felt (some 10 years ago) that Subaru and Saabs were alike in that both were iconoclastic. How was I to know that they would both become more mainstream, and seem to be morphing into one as we speak!:) I also saw parallels between the German and Japanese marques that may not be as true today. I saw Toyota as being modeled after Mercedes (Solidity), Nissan & Mazda after BMW (Performance), and Honda after Audi (Form follows Function). Some of it was design and some of it was related to the character of the car.

    Again, just my 2c!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru has characteristics of Audi (AWD), Porsche (boxer engines), and Saab (general quirkiness).


    But not the repair bills. :-)


  • byronwalterbyronwalter Member Posts: 220
    ...for an S4 sounds like an excellent deal. My A4 goes in for scheduled servicing in about 6 weeks. If there are any 44k S4's sitting around the lot, I might just see if I could do a deal. The current B6 S4 is one of the nicest rides on the road.


    As far as the new Subie's go, the new GT is very nice indeed and I bet that the '06 sees a jump in hp, which will put the squeeze (however slightly) on BMW & Audi.


    My Audi has been excellent ('02 Avant) but I bet that, say, six or seven years down the road that Subie will be costing less to maintain.
  • gordonwdgordonwd Member Posts: 337
    My previous car was an A4 1.8T Quattro. I currently drive a 325i mainly because I wanted a BMW and thought that the AWD system in the 325xi had more drawbacks for me than advantages over RWD. This might change in the next-gen AWD that BMW offers on the new 3-series. Actually, if BMW offered the 325i with Audi's Quattro system then I might have gone that route, but for now the E46 3-series is much more suited to its traditional RWD setup.


    By the way, I live in SE Michigan where we do get snow in the winter, but generally not the blowouts that you'd get out in the Great Plains states or the mountains, where AWD is much more of a real necessity. So far I'm doing fine with the RWD on the standard all-season tires. The DSC/DTC helps a lot in this regard, and if I start having any problems a set of full snow tires would probably take care of it.
  • brianc6796brianc6796 Member Posts: 1
    The other issue with the new Audi is that the new 6 cylinder is at first only coming out with an automatic transmission. The manual will only be available on the 4 cyclinder and the S4. What a bummer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 2.0T is supposedly much improved. I'd like to sample one soon.


  • erikn206erikn206 Member Posts: 2
    I have an '03 Outback with 50k miles on it. My old car was a '95 jetta. I considered an A4, and while I know the A4 may be more refined and cool, I really appreciate the value of my Subie. It was much much cheaper to buy and servicing the car has been much cheaper than my VW was--I'm sure it would be even worse for an Audi. It's the same dealer, so I don't know why they'd rip off their VW customers over their Subaru buyers. Also I get 25mpg even though I drive, umm, fast.

    Either way you decide to go, AWD is the greatest thing ever... especially with the massive quantities of wet snow I have to drive through in the mountains here outside Seattle.
  • jplymanjplyman Member Posts: 90
    I think a major misconception is that Audi's A4 are high priced - they really are a great bang for the buck.... while you maybe able to get a subie for maybe a couple dollars less. On the maintenance side all Audis come with 4 years free maintenance - can't beat that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Base prices are good, but options are kinda pricey, that's what gets them up there in price.


    A4 starts at just $26,520, but add Quattro and a few options and you're well into the $30s.


    Watch the options sheet and I think you can get a pretty good value.


  • nowhere2005nowhere2005 Member Posts: 11
    I'm ready to close a deal on an '05 A4 1.8T Quattro Special Edition (Leather/Sunroof/Power */17" Wheels/Sunroof) with cold weather Pkg for just under 29,800, which includes destination.


    If this same car was purchased earlier in the model year, the MSRP would have been approaching 34k.


    Current ride is an '01 A4 1.8T Quattro. I shopped the Legacy GT - thought it was a fine car, but couldn't get past the fuel economy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's almost 40% more displacement, no way around using more fuel.


  • nowhere2005nowhere2005 Member Posts: 11


    I'm well aware of the difference in displacement, power, etc between the GT & the A4. Just explaining one of the factors that lead to my decision and the fact that the SE's represent a good value (My '05 and '01 purchase prices are within $500). I also own an '03 Baja and am aware of the performance of the N/A 2.5l engine, which is not enough for me personally. When I finally sat down and weighed all costs, along with the intangiables - the A4 was the answer for me (For the 3rd time '98/'01/'05).


    Now if I was in a mode where I was purchasing simply based on performance/price ratio, I would likely purchase a GT.


  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Great value, actually. That's significantly less money given it's so well equipped.


    You and a lot of folks think Subaru should have an engine inbetween the 165hp and 250hp choices available now.


    That gap is huge!


  • nowhere2005nowhere2005 Member Posts: 11
    I agree that the base 2.5 needs a bit more...


    But my feeling is that its more than a sheer numbers game, since the 1.8T has but 4HP more, but has a nice flat torque curve from around 1800RPM on up. While it's far from being the quickest around, it's fun to drive and has a sporty "feel" to it.


    The Subaru base 2.5l reminds a bit of the old "Iron Duke" 2.5l I had in my Jeep Comanche pickup. The engine's personality is definately not what I would consider sporty.


  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru has an AVCS version of that engine in Japan, peak HP is only slightly higher but the torque curve is better.


    I think either a bump in base HP to 175-180 or so, or at least a 210hp intermediate engine option (2.5T from the Forester XT and Baja), would be a good idea.


    Problem is it might sacrifice sales of the more profitable GT.


    Subaru hit a record for sales in 2004, Legacy in particular had a great year.


  • jplymanjplyman Member Posts: 90
    I have to say I really like the performance of my Audi - its '04 1.8T Qautrro with a 6-spd - I have the prem pkg and 17" wheels - while I may lose here and there on the straight ways I make up for it on the curves and also I drive very sprited and get 24.5 MPG and that is driving in Atlanta traffic. I know subbies very well and they just don't have the fit and finish of the Audi.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Try the '05 and later Legacy models, they got a lot nicer. I have an '02 and there's no comparison.


    Audis are very nice inside, tho.


  • nowhere2005nowhere2005 Member Posts: 11
    I'm with you...


    I'm taking delivery of A4 #3 today. I previously owned a '98 and an '01, both were 1.8T quattros with premium & sport packages. The roads in MI suck, so this one is without sport suspension. IMO the handling of the '05 w/o SS is pretty good compared to the '01 and earlier models w/o SS. Just need to do something about the wheel gap though.
  • oscar5740oscar5740 Member Posts: 10
    A few years back, I had a '99 Legacy and my father had a '98 A4 Quattro. I think both were great cars and both have come a long way since. I miss my Legacy since getting rid of it. I did feel that the interior fit and finish was superior on the Audi, but my Legacy was far more reliable. My dad would have spent thousands on repairs were it not for the warranty, and I think he even sent the Audi service dept. a Christmas card one year. I didn't even know who the Subaru service manager was.

    As far as snow performance, I think whoever raised the issue of ground clearance has a very valid point. I felt the Subaru was better in the snow as I found out having to drive down the street in 6" of snow to help dad dig out the Audi. If memory serves, the Audi was lower with performance tires, which improved handling, but sacrificed bad weather performance.

    IMHO, I do not think you can go wrong with either one and realize they are VERY different cars now. I feel that Subaru has improved considerbly and closed the gap with the new generation Legacy. If I had to do it tomorrow, I would take the '05 Legacy GT in a heartbeat and put the 5K-10K saved toward early retirement. Happy driving!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When we get lots of snow my neighbor asks me to buy the milk, and he has one allroad quattro and an XC70.

    Those even have the clearance but I think they're just not willing to risk doing any damage when the weather is nasty.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 212,131
    Your neighbor is a wuss.. tell him I said so.. lol

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  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Well after all the talk on here I drove a legacy gt limited 5 speed yesterday.

    First thoughts - interior is clean, functional and pretty typical of mid-level Japanese cars. The interior in not on par with a G35/3 series/a4 by any stretch. It's very econobox cheap. Soft materials but the overall design makes blah seem edgy.

    Seats were decent but the cheap leather wasn't warming me over. Steering wheel felt slim and plasticky. Not a very sturdy unit. Auto down on one window and no auto up at all? What the heck (sanitized per Pat's request), this is a 2005?! Shifter felt notchy without the engine running and just the clutch depressed.

    Started the car - whoa the 2.5 is a rough running engine. Neat little swing of the needles when the engine comes to life. Ran through the gears again at a standstill, still vague, notchy, rubbery VW-like manual feel. Pulling out of the spot the steering felt dead. That's okay, it's just parking lot stuff.

    hit the road and accelerate. nice. I had forgotten how wonderful it feels to have instant power (unlike the torque-less world of BMW's inline 6 engines). car pulls pretty strongly through the first few gears. also the bulky outside of the car doesn't appear that bad when moving. interior's feeling cramped though and egad do you sit up high in the car. I could use a lowering of a few inches.

    First corner comes and the car leans. Salesguy says many mods available. Yeah it'd need some serious tuning on the suspension to make the car livable. Once we hit the freeway the car roughly roars up to 80. Only 5 gears? Darn, no wonder gas mileage is bad! It's turning high rpms and I'm only doing 90. engine's pretty noticable too but not in a purring sexy way like my ZHP. This is more nissan clatter - as if a rod or some part of the engine will explode through the hood at any moment.

    Nice pick up though - again, the bad gearing means the car will sprint at highway speeds but it's at the sacrifice of mileage and the constant drone of a malfunctiong lawnmower sounding engine. Salesguy claims 3-4k in mods will get you over 300 whp. Intriguing...

    Off the freeway and banking. Not exactly glued to the road. The typical intrusive, fun-numbing of Subaru's awful AWD system robs corners of their enchanting promise. Car stays planted but doesn't feel like it's being guided by invisible rails (ala bmw, miata, etc). Too much mechanical interference with cornering, imho.

    On surface streets the engine's always on boil and little too unrefined for my tastes. The car wants to run hard but it's more of a nissan-like level of half-way threre luxury. This car isn't a near luxury competitor...too many cost cutting corners from the wind noise to the bad manual to the light doors.

    Good size trunk. Back seat is not comfy - neither is the bimmer's though.

    Overall a fairly fun car but more of a 22k car given the total lack of anything approaching luxury. honda's accord coupe v6 sports a better, more refined, eager engine, infinitely better tranny, and total luxury-like entombment. If not for the FWD, it'd be a lexus-like car. can't see spending 26-28k on this car. I'd always feel like I was driving something slapped together by boy racers who wanted to pretend they were going after the luxury class.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I disagree about the G35's interior, I actually think the Subaru's is nicer. Carlos Ghosn went a little too far in cutting costs.

    A 6 speed is rumored, basically SoA is training techs to service them, so it's almost certain for MY06.

    Accord doesn't come in a sedan with that manual trans. And the sedan's suspension is softer than even the Subie you're complaining about.

    The EJ25 engine is the same in the STi, same semi-closed deck block, forged pistons, different tuning. All the STi stuff bolts on.

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Have you been in the redesigned 2005 G35? sounds like you're talking about the 03-04 G35. Different ducks.

    I made it clear I was talking about the Accord Coupe. Just popped into my head as an example of a luxurious, quick, decent car in the low 20s.
  • hoxhox Member Posts: 24
    Tell me where you can find a v-6 6 speed Honda Accord coupe for $22k new? It stickers at $26,500 and only about 300 are produced for the states. If there pricing were here, they couldn't keep them on the lots anywhere. They go for 25k plus at dealers if you find them.

    Don't get me wrong great car, not AWD, but certainly tops the RSX or TSX (Acura's).

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    ell me where you can find a v-6 6 speed Honda Accord coupe for $22k new? It stickers at $26,500 and only about 300 are produced for the states.

    When i was shopping for a car in 03, I got offers of 22.5k on two of them from different dealers in san diego. when helping a friend look for a car in 04, we drove a 6 speed accord v6 coupe and also got an offer of 23.5k without haggling. just standing still. shrug, i take that to mean it's no big deal.

    If there pricing were here, they couldn't keep them on the lots anywhere. They go for 25k plus at dealers if you find them.

    honda dealers give their cars away and every honda I've looked at always is priced at or below invoice. usually below. could be the market you're in as san diego honda dealers will bend over backward to move product.

    Actually, I probably would take the TSX over it. Prefer the 4 door to the ugly look of the two door coupe world. I know i'd take a tsx over a 325i.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The last G35 I sampled was at a Lexus event last year, so I'm sure it was a 2004. Glad to hear there were improvements, I should check it out because I like the rest of the package.

    Honda might be afraid that a 6 speed Accord sedan would cannibalize the TSX and maybe even TL.

  • civic4civic4 Member Posts: 33
    I have also owned an Audi A4 1.8T. I will say it was a nice car to drive, but if you check out the problems with Audis, you would not want to keep the car past the warranty or Audi Advantage period. That is around 4 years or 50K miles. My wife and I drove the '05 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Ltd model ands were impressed with the fit and finish, especially of the interior of the car, the Audi has the exterior beat but we both agreed the interior was very impressive. We were quoted a price of $24,989 for the Ltd with automatic in a silver with black interior, we never buy on first quotes, we have a 2001 Audi A6 4.2 as our other car.

    The Audi had started "nickel and thousanding" us to death toward the end, transmission, turbo, timing belt tensioner, leaking gaskets, gas gauge malfunction etc..., needless to say, my wife gave the stepson the keys to go to McDConalds, well, the antilock was not working and the road was a bit slick from an early morning rain, (Audi wanted $1600 to fix the main brain of the car which was the problem with the antilock), the son was too busy looking inside his McDonald's bag, and what can I say, a telephone pole jumped out in front of him....(he says it was a squirrel that jumped out and he hit the pole to avoid it last minute, but we won't argue that point....just glad the Audi preformed as it did and gave its life up for his!!)

    We would have considered another Audi, but we tend to keep our cars longer than the warranty period, and the Audi just doesn't have the reliability record for mileage milestones. I have noticed Subaru owners do not have as many critical complaints as Audi owners....maybe we will be driving that Legacy Ltd. soon....as for our 4.2, no problems yet, and we have a 100K powertrain warranty on that vehicle, and with 43K on the odometer, we may keep her for a bit longer.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    How fitting that we've been talking about this - CR's car issue named Subaru the most reliable brand, number one for MY2004.

  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    "Don't get me wrong great car, not AWD, but certainly tops the RSX or TSX (Acura's)."

    Why? Because it has more horsepower? Pretty narrow defintion of performance if you ask me.

  • taxman10taxman10 Member Posts: 59
    I guess I'll join in on this.
    I just got a A4 2.0 Quattro, 6 speed.
    I've had a 1996 Outback H4 and a 2001 LL Bean H6. I put Bridgestone RE950s on the Bean and it changed personality from a dull car to one with some spirit - albeit losing some snow performance.
    Before getting the A4 I was in the local Subie dealership and tested a 5 speed Legacy GT Ltd and the automatic version.
    While I liked the Subie, was very familiar with them and could appreciate the distance they had come since 1996, the car is a half class below the new A4 by any measure other total HP and price.
    Fully loaded I stickered at $36,700 and invoiced at $34,400. Comparably, but not quite ( x zenons, bose/sattelite, better, I think, materials, longer warranty and free maintenance, etc) equipped, the the subie is $7,000 less.
    For a lot of people the tradeoffs and savings might make a difference - I wasn't sold.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    That's to Hox, right. I prefer the TSX.
  • deano2deano2 Member Posts: 1
    I was just wondering whats your opinion on the best awd sports sedan?

    Iam thinking of the Audi S4.

    What do you think?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I have broadened the topic name and categories here - enjoy!
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Especially if we're talking ultimately expensive. :o)

    Forget S4, how 'bout the RS4? RS6? S8? Phaeton W12?

    More down to earth, JDM Legacy STi? MazdaSpeed 6? WRX STi? EVO IX?

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    More down to earth, JDM Legacy STi? MazdaSpeed 6? WRX STi? EVO IX?

    Great vehicles all, but the thread title is "Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans," not "Best-Bang-for-the-Buck AWD Sports Sedans."

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