2006 Toyota RAV4

desertguy

"You should have written using higher octane than the manufacturer designed/optimized the engine for will not increase performance."

Yes I should have. That is much better phraseology. However, since the engine is designed for 87 octane and the timing is retarded accordingly, nothing will be gained in using higher octane. The engine can't take advantage of it.

jeffer3

Early this year I purchased a Subaru Outback and for reasons I won't go into here I am not entirely pleased with the vehicle. I had no idea the Rav4 had been beefed up so profusely. It has more room and more power then the OB and even, if the specs are correct, more luggage/cargo space then a 4Runner, which I had been previously considering.
But I'm concerned about this acceleration lag that you speak of. Is this in the 4 cyl, V6, or both. I would think that with 269hp in the V6 the thing should fly like a freakin' rocket.
thanks,
Jeffer3

jeffer3

So are you saying that people experience the "lag" only when using a lower octane fuel such as 87, and not when using higher octane or premium fuel?

kdhspyder

It does..try it.. but hold on tight to the wheel and pay attention if you really jam it.

jeffer3

Yes, I've heard about the torque steer. But they say it's not as prevelant in the 4WD. Which brings me to my next question.

I'm very interested in hearing about people's driving experiences with the 4WD.

First, what is this Electronis-On Demand 4WD and how does it work.

Second, how would it compare to the Outback's AWD, or a V6 4Runner's full-time 4WD systems. And under what circumstances can you put it in "lock". Can you keep it locked if driving on dry roads? I ask because often the surface conditions will vary depending on whether the plows have gotten there yet.

Any real world experience that people have would be nice to hear about. I live in the Northeast and driving conditions can get pretty dicey at times. I'm more interested in handling/driving conditions in the snow rather than off-road but would like to hear that too.

tx
Jeffer3

stever

There's lots of background info in the Toyota 4WD systems explained discussion as well as the 4WD & AWD systems explained you may want to read through too.

kdhspyder

The RAV system is different from the other Toyota systems. From reports back in this forum it appears that it does very well in snow but it's not a heavy duty off road vehicle as is the 4Runner.

Essentially the 4WD vehicle drives in 2WD nearly all the time. When the sensors detect a slippage in the front wheels some of the torque is sent to the rear wheels until the the slippery situation is past.

At low speeds for difficult situations the front and back wheels can be locked 50/50 with the press of a button. However this 'lock' comes off automatically above 25 mph, then you're back to driving a front wheel drive vehicle with some torque sent to the rear when needed.

ateixeira

since the engine is designed for 87 octane and the timing is retarded accordingly

Are you sure about that?

If premium fuel is recommended, then maybe not.

I ask because Nissan rated the Armada at 300hp on 87 octane, and the Infiniti QX56 at 315hp on 93 octane.

Dynos test told the truth, and owners found that putting 93 octane in Armadas yielded a 15hp boost, and 87 octane in a QX yeilded a 15hp loss.

Timing isn't fixed, it's adjusted on the fly by the ECU. If premium is recommended, then I'm sure Toyota powertrain engineers programmed the ECU to advance the spark timing a bit to make more power. Or to retard it when knock is observed from the use of lower octane.

The part I don't agree with is the idea that the timing is set at a fixed point (say, 10 degrees before top dead center). The ECU surely adjusts it.

On my Miata the timing is manually adjusted. OE setting is 10 degrees BTDC. I have it set to 14, 4 degrees advanced. You can go up to 18, but if you do, you have to use premium fuel.

Modern ECUs do this for you on the fly.

We're talking high compression with the V6, I'm sure it does this.

-juice

ateixeira

Nissan just announced the Sentra SE-R and SE-R Spec V.

The difference between the two is the compression ratio is higher on the Spec V, so it makes more HP and torque. The ratio is 10.5:1, which is actually lower than the RAV4's.

Premium fuel is required on the Spec V.

The SE-R (non-Spec V) makes just 177 hp from the same displacement with a lower compression ratio.

Point is, the RAV4's V6 has high compression, nearly 270hp doesn't come for free.

-juice

khbush

We got a 2007 V6 about 3 weeks ago. It is a rocket Runs like crazy. I expected it to run goodbut I had no idea it would run as good as it does!

thecat

If premium fuel is recommended, then maybe not.

Who said premium fuel is recommended? Not according to my owners manual. And, just for the record .. I've never experienced any "lag".

- hutch

ateixeira

I didn't say it, I was merely asking what Toyota's policy is.

-juice

thecat

Also, for the record .. Juice is my buddy and rally driving partner ... even though my driving apparently scares him.
- hutch

ateixeira

I still want to take a spin in your RAV6 V6, but I think I'll wear some Depends this time. :surprise:



-juice

thecat

A.J. you're welcome anytime. If you don't have any depends ... I'll lend you a pair of mine.

tidester

I do hope that these kinds of comments won't Prevail.

tidester, host

flyingn

hold on a second. Compression and compresion alone does NOT denote how much octane and engine 'needs'. Cylinder design, cam specs, gear ratios all play a part in what octane will yeild the most hp. You can't make a blanket stating that a 10.8:1 compression engine will make more hp with 93 octane fuel cause it just ain't true. You have to take in other factors. I race turbocharged cars and we run all kinds of boost (27 lbs) on 93 octane pump gas.. so it can be done..

ateixeira

Gearing does not affect an engine's HP. Only how that output is applied to the wheels.

Cylinder and head design, valves, cams, and probably timing would have an affect, sure. But the primary factor is still the effective compression ratio.

How would your turbo run on 87 octane? :P

-juice

flyingn

you misunderstood. I was saying that gear ratios in the trans will effect how the octane reacts to ther engine.. IE.. the more an engien 'lugs' the more detonation and the more octane that it will need.

my GN won't run on 87 lol

Frank

mov4wrd

Yes you can make the blanket statement about compression and octane, though there are contributing factors; it's explained in "Carnot's Cycle", and the laws of thermodynamics.

ateixeira

Gotcha. But that's not a factor with the 3.5l V6, which only comes in automatic form in the RAV4.

Too bad, actually.

-juice

flyingn

The throttle lag is an issue on a very small percentage of Ravs. Ours is a year old and has never done it. Torque steer happens on all fwd high powered cars. Its a fact of life. Get the awd to lessen it. Our 4 has no torque steer at all. BTW- the 4 is a fantastic engine .Plenty of power for all that we want it to do. top speed is 119 mph (according to Toyota).. Get a Rav, you will be happy:)

Frank

raviola4

Hopefully i'm not in a time warp and you actually mean the 2006 Rav 4.... I've had my 4 cyl. Rav4 now for 9 months. Had the infamous hyroglyphics crap with the 6 disc system, but replacement unit is fine. Unfortunately i have had the lag issue on several occasions. Overall runs great, but on those few occasions, it's a scary situation to say the least (when another car/truck bearing down on you and the car can't get out of it's own way due to this 2-3 second lag problem. I'm running car a little harder now, not babying it so that might help. Although round town mileage since i bought dropped from 23.5 to just over 20 mpg. But overall no other complaints. Winter's been unusally warm and that's supposed to continue here in Delaware, so may not get a chance to try it out in snow this year. Heck the grass is still plush/green. Unreal. Happy New Year to all.

flyingn

Yes I mean the 06 rav.

Ya know that there is a TSB out on the throttle lag issue. Go see the dealer for a reflash of the prom..

raviola4

Thanks, i'll check dealer. First i've seen/heard of a TSB issued for the RAV4.

flyingn

BTW- acording to Toyota the v6 requires 91 or higher octane and the 4 requires 87 or higher..

ateixeira

Source? You sure it says 91 is required, and not merely recommended?

-juice

kdhspyder

-juice is correct of course.

thecat

My owners manual says 87 octane ?????????

That's all that I've ever put in it and it runs fine.

jimdrew

I also run 87 and it runs great...I see no reason for higher octane rating. My service adviser says 87 is fine.

Jimmy Drew

flyingn

yes Im sure. but you can use 87 if you would like but Toyota says 91 or higher on their official ducuments... not in the owners manual. Using 87 is a selling point. Thats why they say use it in the manual. But in reality 91 is what it was calibrated for. Not to worry tho It will run fine on 87

raviola4

Our other car is a 2003 Accura TL. Manual recommends premium fuel, but we run 87 octane. And 3 different Accura service departments all agreed 87 fine. Just don't get the higher performance. Seems to have good enough performance for us.

ogrerugby

When I first start driving in the morning, or whenever the car has been sitting for several hours, I can hear the brakes grinding. This problem goes away after a few minutes of driving. It's almost as if there is no brake fluid circulating for a little while. I've noticed this for a while and I only have 11K miles on my 2006 Rav 4.
Thanks for any help.

hibeam

I have a 2006 Rav 4 and I have just started hearing the noise the last week, I thought it was from the cold we have had in NY.

scottyg1234

I noticed this a few weeks ago as well. It happens usually when it is cold out. But sometimes it happens even when it is warm out, always after the vehicle has been sitting for several hours.

alexstore

In my opinion it is normal. My MIL's Rav4 does it. My Maxima does it. All cars I had before , did it for first few miles after a long stay or if its cold or rainy outside. All that matters that it stops. If it doesn't and your car is pulling to one side, while braking, I advise you to visit dealer.

klcrd

I have a 2006 rav 4 6 cy I have the same problem. I ask the dealer and said it how the brakes clean themselves after sitting over nite.

I noise does go away 1 mile or less into driving and braking.

andrelaplume

Two questions, the first specific to our RAV. The dealer is using sythetic oil and says its reccomended and if we ever have the oil changed elsewhere to make sure we use it. Does this sound right and whats the benefit?

Second, I had my 02 Camry's oil was changed at my tire guy while in for an inspection and tire rotation. I have dealt with them for years and years but this was the first time they changed the Camry's oil, I usually have the dealer do it because they have a shuttle service which is convenient. I noticed a smoggy smeel in the car for a few days. I thought it was the oil burning off. I drove less than 100 miles before stopping back this morning. They guy popped the hood and noticed the oil knob was very loose. He appeared very embarrased and said it must have vibrated loose. I think we both knew it was never tightened. Anyway, he re-checked the oil level, it was full. He wiped the surrounding areas and said everything should be fine. Sure enough the smell is gone. Could this have damaged my engine in any way though. So far its running normally.

FYI:
If anyone has had any water in the passenger front seat around the console, tehre is a TSB to correct this now...also one for the problem where you lifet the lever to recline the seat forward and it does not spring forward....the TSB corrects this as well.

desertguy

Your manual specifies what oil Toyota recommends for your car. Follow their recommendations and all will be well. They do not specify synthetic oil. Dealers say what ever will make them the most money.

wwest

I would be very surprised if any dealer uses anything but re-refined dino stuff, most do. Probably sells it to an unwary buyer as synthetic, who's to know or find out.

alexstore

My MIL has RAV4 and in the manual it recommends toyota, but you can use same viscosity alternative brands. It even gives you viscosity ratings.

leeharvey418

I test drove a RAV4 a couple of weeks ago, the day after we had had a good rain. You could tell the vehicles that had been moved since the night before, because they were the ones without a coating of rust on the rotors.

Yes, the first stops in both vehicles that I drove that day were noisy, but as soon as the coating of rust was gone so was the grinding noise .

feliciatwo

All the RAV4 is lacking is a; Hybrid with CLEAN Diesel...and it's Zoom,Zoom,zoom, I'm waiting till then to buy. Terrific little cutie otherwise.

ateixeira

Isn't that Mazda's Slogan?

jimdrew

I love my Rav4 with the V6 engine...this baby really flys and I am getting better than 24MPG in mixed driving...there is nothing out there to compete with this. The one thing though is that I keep my oil changed and have been having Toyota do it...mostly free of charge. ;-) Well, I went to Firestone today and they wanted $42.00 to change my oil and filter and said that the filter was $15.00 more than other filters. How can that be..it is only an insert..it shoulb be cheaper. Any one actually know. I was told the engine in RAV4 V6 is one of the 10 best in the world..is this also true?

Jimmy Drew and his Pocket Rocket...

leeharvey418

Don't hold your breath. I've heard that the RAV4 was never designed with the intention of a potential hybrid powertrain retrofit. Even if it were, putting an emissions-compliant diesel (actually all of its accoutrements) in an existing unit-body platform is nigh on impossible.

Besides, the 'perfect' diesel hybrid is one in which the engine has no mechanical connection to the wheels. Take a 1.5L engine with a turbocharger that would typically be employed on a 3-4L engine and tune it for maximum efficiency in a very narrow rev range so that all it does is charge the capacitors and batteries. People would never buy it because it doesn't 'feel normal' to them.

leeharvey418

Regarding the ten best engines: the answer is "sort of".

Ward's Auto World did indeed include the "Toyota 3.5L V6" as one of their choices for 2007's best engines, but the engine specifically mentioned in the article was the 2GR-FSE as used in the Lexus IS350. The RAV4's engine (as well as the Lexus RX350's) is the 2GR-FE. The difference is that the -FSE employs a combination of direct and manifold fuel injection to maximize performance for specific engine operating conditions, where the -FE engine only injects fuel into the intake manifold. The difference is pretty substantial- ~35 hp and ~25 lb-ft of torque.

I can tell you that the 2GR-FE engine is pretty special in its own right- 1195 kPa BMEP was the realm of supercharged engines just a few years ago. I'd say that the short answer is feel free to tell all your friends that you own one of the best engines in the world.

desertguy

The Rav4 comes with the new efficient diesel engine in the rest of the world already so I don't understand your statement. I think it could be easily modified (if needed) to pass US specifications. Toyota just doesn't think there is a sufficient market for it at this time. Things will change.

leeharvey418

It may be efficient, but I doubt that it's clean. Countries outside North America understand that accepting a diesel engine's shortcomings is necessary to reap its primary benefit- much greater distance traveled per barrel of crude oil extracted.

Besides, even if the compression-ignition engine could pass 50 state certification, it wouldn't change the fact that the RAV4 was never designed to accept a hybrid drivetrain.

Don't get me wrong- if there were a clean hybrid diesel vehicle on the market, especially one with the utility of the RAV4, I would be the first in line to buy it. The problem is that there aren't enough of us for Toyota or anyone else to invest the resources necessary to bring it to market.

jbollt

"...the RAV4 was never designed to accept a hybrid drivetrain"

Sorry to step in here, but I doubt the 2001-2007 Highlanders were orignaly designed to accept a Hybrid drivetrain either, yet as we all know, there is a Highlander Hybrid. Unless I totaly missed your point.