In terms of percentages, 30% / 28% / 32% they are actually a HUGE (range of ) MPG improvement ! (Obviously if one wants/needs and more importantly is willing to pay the (full) freight on a V8 turbo diesel, it is still bettter than a gasser V8.
It is really time to blow the lid off of the underlying assumptions that have in effect added to the inertia toward adoption of diesel.
You did the percentages in reverse - the percentage increases are 43%/39%/44% (the lower number is the base, not the higher). And again, this is a V6 turbo diesel, not a V8.
Yes I have been saying the lower numbers, as most folks ( on this thread - imagine those that don''t know or even care) really have a hard time acknowledging the real numbers, let alone the lower numbers!!??
So for example: the VW Jetta TDI
@ 50 mpg vs 1.8T @ 29 mpg is actually (50-29=21/29) = 72.4%!!!
I have of course, consistently said 50-29=21/50) 42%.
You/all have witness the bru ha ha with those (lower) numbers.
50 mpg vs 1.8T 29 mpg is actually (50-29=21/29) = 72.4%!!!
I have of course, consistently said 50-29=21/50) 42%.
And what you are doing wrong by using the lower number is stating it as a percentage increase. If you are calculating based on the higher/diesel value, the number you get is the percentage decrease from diesel to gasoline, not the increase from gasoline to diesel.
A far simpler example: * gas: 10 mpg * diesel: 15 mpg The increase to diesel is 5 mpg or 50% of the gas value. The decrease to gas is 5 mpg or 33% of the diesel value.
Don't worry about who believes what... when you state the mathematics correctly, the calculation is eliminated as a point of debate.
I have a 1989 F700 with a 6.6 liter inline 6 cylinder deisel that weighs 16,000lbs and gets 13mpgs at 70mph highway. I have a 2008 F250 6.4 liter deisel that weighs 10,000lbs and gets 13mpg at 60 mph highway. My 1999 F250 got 20mpgs with the same load the 08 carries now. They obviously aren't trying to get better mileage or they could.
... We all know the three of you together probably couldn't get the plugs out and back in a '57 Chevy, so you better get some advise on this real quick. The Argonne National Labs has this catylast (and they KNOW it works) that will solve most of our NOx problems. So why are they and their licensee going to study this for two years. Well, they don't know it will go down the road for say 200,000 miles. Problem is, after two years (controlled conditions) they still will not really know. .. ... What to do ???: for less than the stimulant checks, less than Katrina, the gov can offer a guaranteed one year swap out exchange program for these converters, and have these systems on cars in two months. Hopefully they will last as long as most converters, maybe a ten year average. Of course it's a gamble. Heck, the aftermarket might even take-off on this as people can get rid of their ineviatiably decaying EGR systems. We, already lost on solar hybrids. It's time for some risk. It's possible this program might only cost some executive hours. BTW, this catylast is relatively inexpensive, and we are looking at a ten to fifteen percent fuel efficiency improvement. Also, the systems installed will cost the vehicle manufacturers less than the EGR systems they will supersede.
Just reading some things from Argonne. They are saying if I am reading this correctly that the bar is too high on NoX. That leads to people rebuilding the old diesel engines that are far more polluting than those available today. If you are a Trucker do you buy a post 2002 with a lot of restrictions or rebuild that old engine?
This is what Agonne is saying about the regs: However, the new regulations create severe engineering problems for diesel engine manufacturers. For example, current truck engines barely meet the current standards (4 grams per brake horsepower-hour [g/bhp-h] of NOx and 0.1 g/bhp-h of particulates). The task of getting a 50% reduction seems as difficult as squeezing water from a rock. In particular, the manufacturers are now caught in a bind between the regulations on particulates and the regulations on NOx.
The more I see what CARB and the EPA are doing the more convinced to buy a two year old diesel SUV. Probably a recent Mercedes and strip out all the EGR & smog crap as they are not smog tested. That is the reason so many guys buy 3/4 ton trucks with diesel and remove all the smog stuff to make it run better. Straight pipes and remove all the sensors that cause fits.
I am convinced that the regulators will not be happy until they have killed the diesel market for all but big trucks. They know there is no alternative for that usage. They may be destroying the industry as a whole. Forcing operators to just keep rebuilding the older trucks.
"After quickly reading through the attached article, congress has got it backwards as usual." ===========================================================
Until you address deliberate auto dependency everything else about oil dependency, oil companies, taxation, fuel alternatives, and the like is just whining in the cold wind of bad choices at the national and individual level.
"...strip out all the EGR & smog crap as they are not smog tested." ========================================================== You can count the days until mandatory inspections are required. In all societies scofflaws that engage in illegal acts that harm others are dealt with severely.
... Amazing, a gov funded research lab, disagreeing with CARB and EPA; however bureacratically tying up one of the greatest potential clea-air inventions since the Dark Ages, the nieteeen seventies. We need these converters on-highway immediately.
... Amazing, a gov funded research lab, disagreeing with CARB and EPA; however bureacratically tying up one of the greatest potential clea-air inventions since the Dark Ages, the nieteeen seventies. We need these converters on-highway immediately.
I agree with you 100%, the bureaucratic BS seems to delay improvements to the point they just go away or become so watered down they are worthless. I have to ask, have you or anyone written your Rep. on this issue? I realize it’s like P***ing into the wind, but if enough power is pushed in that direction it might make something happen.
All of us on these boards [non-permissible content removed] and moan to each other about things that should be and that the government is run by idiots, but how many of us write to our Representatives to try and get something done?
I have written to my Congress person on many different issues and in some cases something was done. Was it my letter that turned the table, maybe in my dreams. Most of the time I just get back a nice email thanking me, we are working on it, yada, yada, BS .. what ever, :mad: but I can’t say I didn’t try.
Urea prices reached record highs in June 2008, which affected the “already tight” margins on AdBlue urea additive for diesel engines, according to AdBlue, the company that makes the additive.
And I am just as convinced that you are absolutely incorrect in that assessment.
And I don't believe you read What our government lab said about EPA regulations concerning diesel engines. The term they used to describe the EPA diesel regs was "Squeezing water out of a rock".
As Roland has addressed, there are technologies available. Are they too expensive? I don't know. When will we reach the point of diminishing returns on emissions? I think we are past it.
You can count the days until mandatory inspections are required.
You may be right and you may be wrong. Most smog checks are done from a certain point on out. Presently the State of CA does not test diesel vehicles for emissions. Does that make much sense if there is anything harmful that could come out of the tailpipe? Maybe it is easier to keep setting the bar higher to keep them out. Maybe now that most diesels are cleaner than most gassers they are stuck with coming up with a test.
Keep that clock ticking. You and I will be long gone before the ICE is.
You know that the great part of this discussion is? What makes it different from some of the discussions we have around here?
We WILL Know The Answer.
When the 50-state-approved diesel cars hits the number it's supposed to hit in the next couple of years (what is that number - 10? 15?) then we will know who was correct.
Compared to the last one, this newest Jetta diesel is more powerful and its performance is noticeably improved. Fuel economy, however, fell a little short, though it should be noted that the review car came with just 200 miles on the odometer and had a six-speed automatic transmission. Nonetheless, our results were excellent: 45 miles per gallon overall and just over 50 miles per gallon on the highway.
The picture that you post really looks exactly like the loyal model I tested at the local VW dealer. I can not vouch for 45 mpg overall and 50 mpg, but the fact of the matter is based on mine (48-52 mpg: 50 mpg) it is EASILY achieveable. The power is MONSTER over mine (155 # ft vs 236 # ft= 52.3% greater) . This is HUGE! try getting 52.3% better torque in a gasser !? With same mpg? :lemon: Too cool! :shades:
Volkswagen has another stealth offering that will likely show up in Europe before it makes its way to North America. The VW Golf TDI Hybrid is equipped with a 74-horsepower three-cylinder TDI engine - (probably the 1.4-liter used in the VW Polo BlueMotion) - mated to a 27-horsepower electric motor and a seven-speed double-clutch DSG transmission.
There's a nickel-metal hydride battery in the trunk; a regenerative braking system helps keep it charged. The car has engine stop/start capability and a full-electric mode at low speed. An "energy monitor" display on the dashboard, like the one found in the Prius, keeps tabs on what the powertrain is doing.
VW projects that its hybrid Golf will get around 70 m.p.g. and have very low emissions. If VW builds the Golf (a.k.a. Rabbit) hybrid and imports it to the U.S., it's a guaranteed hit and a potential Prius killer.
Hard to distinguish it from the Passat............unless you see them side-by-side. And - the boot, (trunk), capacity is actually bigger on the Jetta than on the Passat. Doesn't make sense, I know, but there you go. :confuse:
hypnosista how long until they scan the ecm and can if tell that the 07 & later pickup owners have been running with software which disables the fuel-robbing "regen" cycle?
is it ok if i run an 07 duramax with aftermarket flash just until I need glasses?
what happens to a duramax if a piece of road debris were to accidentally fly up and sever the fuel-pump/whatever which pumps fuel into the particle-trap for the 'regen cycle'? what if a land-shark were to chomp off the entire particle-trap and regen-fuel=pump while coughing a shark-lung into the intake and precisely blocking the EGR? it could happen. mpg improvement? who knows?
I just got off the phone with a salesman at a Portland, OR dealership and was told the following.
Because of “mostly” the weak dollar and exchange rate VW has done the following; They originally were going to build 12,000 TDI Jetta wagons and sedans combined for the MY 2009 to be distributed to 643 VW dealers in the US. That number has been dropped to 8,000 TDI combined for MY 2009. He also said they (most dealer, not VW) are adding about $4,000 over MSRP for the TDI’s
Bottom line, I guess, is forget the diesel for this year and see if the numbers increase for 2010.
They originally were going to build 12,000 TDI Jetta wagons and sedans combined for the MY 2009 to be distributed to 643 VW dealers in the US. That number has been dropped to 8,000 TDI combined for MY 2009. He also said they (most dealer, not VW) are adding about $4,000 over MSRP for the TDI’s.
Way to go VW!!! Yet another car company that can't run off the cliff as fast enough. Guess they've been studying the GM play book for too many years! Low sales, high fuel and greedy car dealers :mad: I wouldn't buy a VW under those circumstances. Looks like VW will join the ranks of Puegot, Renault, Fiat and Triumph racing with Mitsubishi to see who can go out of business first. Mitsu seems to have problems similar to VW. This is why people wait for Honda and Toyota to make diesels.
From what I could find, the Jetta is being made in Mexico. So will the exchange rate really be that much of an issue? It also looks like VW invested a lot of money to get their plant up to speed. Is there a shortage of diesel engines?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Jetta "Additionally, the Mark 5 went on sale in the USA prior to any other country, reflecting the importance of the car in that market for VW.[76] US$800 million was spent upgrading the factory in Puebla for its production. This included a US$290 million new engine production line for the 5 cylinder power plant, a US$50 million investment in the press shop, as well as a US$200 million purchase of 460 robots, which increased automation by 80%."
The diesel engines have been and probably will remain "Made in Germany"
An engine shortage would be a valid excuse; the weak dollar is hard to swallow. If the weak dollar was truly the reason for not selling many TDI’s then why are they so willing to sell other cars. Can the engine alone be the make or break issue? I’m having a hard time buying all of this.
It would be nice to have someone speak up and tell us the truth. VW has never in recent times brought in all the TDI’s they could sell and I have to wonder “why”.
VW has said all along it needs to increase its market share in the US and yet they dribble in TDI’s for no obvious reason other than to line the pockets of the greedy dealers.
They could have allocated 25,000 to the US market and sold them all before the end of the year IMO
... From a previous post of mine, "according to National Public Radio VW is building a plant in the USA, because of the weak dollar". Another: VW warned their dealers about six months back to not charge over sticker for the TDI's. Have to wonder is this is similar to the speculated using of the 2005 CRD Liberty as a test mule on the USA market and driving and maintenance conditions and regs ???
Considering the weak dollar it is surprising that they make money selling the car in the US at all.
The dealers will help screw up any good that the parent company will be able to do. Greed works like that. MSRP means they are making money at that price. Dealers always want more. I'll still check it out but I always pay less than MSRP or I don't buy. VW is having enough troubles as it is. They need to get their dealers back inline or they'll be on the ropes worse than they are now.
You'd almost think VW didn't have a rock-solid and time-tested track record of terrible quality, horrendous dealership service and incredibly expensive repairs and service.
I think also we need to put it in context. Small car vehicle fleet populations are @ app less than 25%. Normal yearly PRODUCTION (and hopefully) sales has been between 16-17 M units. So right there the small car segment is @ app 4 to 4.25 M units. This year due to the economy dynamics, the projection @ mid year is app 14 M units.
While this is not news, small ( to mid sized cars and the ones that get BETTER economy than worse) have experienced a huge resurgence in interest. It goes without saying there are many segments (as well as oem's that produce in those segments) that have WAY excess inventory. As a consequence they (segments and oems) are hurting. Needless to say, if one is in the market for a new vehicle in these (less desireable) DEALS is the operative word !?
So for example, (Honda) Civics are literally out of inventory and the 2008 model year is about to / if not already has closed. Dealers can probably sell ANY (Civic, Fit, etc. )inventory over and above 2008 alottments. On the other hand, I am sure they have far more inventory than they would wish, i.e., Ridgeline/Odyssey/Pilot .
I can literally sell a 2004 Civic with 70,000 miles for $500 less than I paid, NEW.
I think also we need to put it in context. Normal yearly sales has been between 16-17 M units. This year due to the economy dynamics, the projection mid year is app 14 M units. While this is not news, small to mid sized cars (and the ones that get BETTER economy than worse) have experienced a huge resurgence in interest. It goes without saying there are many segments (as well as oem's that produce in those segments) that have WAY excess inventory and as a consequence are hurting. So for example Honda (Civics) are literally out of inventory and the 2008 model year is about to / if not already have closed.
The fact that the car makers weren't able to forsee a huge upsurge in small cars sales just means they will of course sell less cars since large cars and SUV's are on the decline in sales. They have no excuse for next year tho. I could sell my 2008 Civic Si but no chance I can sell it for $500 less than I paid for it. I just might sell it tho. My wife wants a New Fit and I think I'll go for a Mini Cooper S. So come October we will see. Mini's take a long time to order right now tho. :sick:
You'd almost think VW didn't have a rock-solid and time-tested track record of terrible quality, horrendous dealership service and incredibly expensive repairs and service.
Exactly. VW has a long way to go regain public confidence in product and service. Having dealers gouging the public on a desired product is not in VW best interest and I would think the head office would be a little “upset” with dealers that are greedy and undermining VW’s objectives.
It might pay to go to VW home page and email the head office with a note voicing our displeasure. Keep it short and to the point, it will only accept a small amount of words.
The SI is more of a (how shall I say) affinity machine/product.
BIL bought a new (stretch) Mini Cooper. He paid MSRP (+??? ). It was literally the LAST of its kind (inventory) in a major US city/area. He was not real pleased to pay MSRP (+?) as he has been the almost supreme wheeler dealer for almost anything, but he WAS happy to even get one.
If it is something I want and new from the retailer, I'm not pleased with MSRP, but find it acceptable. Adding thousands of dollars over MSRP is not acceptable to me and I would think the home office of any dealership should/would have a say in the matter.
The SI is more of a (how shall I say, affinity) machine/product.
My Si is great! I does everything well. It's not a Porsche but the 968 I had was always needing something expensive. I've owned VW's in the past. I've driven plenty of diesels overseas as well. VW has credibility issues with dependability and yet My Honda like all the others I've owned before it were more a victim of my boredom than anything to do with the life of the car. I have yet to own a car that I'd want to own for more than 3 years. My last car I owned for 6 years. But now that I don't drive 35-50k miles a year. I figure I can own what I like. The Mini is nice but our dealer is not only far but complicated to get to as they are on the wrong side of a divided lane highway, you have to drive miles past the dealership then turn around and go back. If you miss the dealership you are looking at 20 minutes of driving, minimum, to get back to the dealership. Add that on top on a 1.5 hour drive to get there. Mini you have to pay MSRP. But everyone does. The Prius is a mass market car and happens to be popular right now and if gas were to drop to $3 a gallon or just under it, then people would move back into larger vehicles. Either way VW dealers gouging is not going to help VW in any way.
I would agree. However for the 2009 inventory they actually anticipate selling(12,000 units- anyone with any better information, PLEASE post) , I do not foresee them having many problems. Again my take is anecdotal: and from the standpoint of 109,000 miles on one of the better to best years (2003) of the Mark IV generation @ 4% of 250,000 total VW units or 10,000 TDI units. My paperwork indicates a 2,000 dealer add on was posted. The other is because of the economy and rise in fuel prices, it would appear that selling 14 m cars in 2009 might be optimistic. (down from 16-17M) Those who have primarily small cars (VW a case in point) should do better than those that have have more of the unpopular segments and volumes.
... "VW has credibility issues with dependability and yet My Honda like all the others I've owned before it were more a victim of my boredom than anything to do with the life of the car."...
The other issue which might be the sound of one hand clapping is given your quote, Honda (other Japanese OEMS also) is/are having challenging times in the European market with both their gas/diesels. Europeans are also value conscious; as fuel approaches 9/10 per gal and car maintenance is even higher than in the US. So for example I would tolerate neither VW/Honda if either/both proved unreliable/not durable.
While I think under 3 per gal RUG is easily do able, I truly do not see it going back to those levels as the logistic chain AND environmentalists have achieved their goals of ever increasing prices for fuel. Indeed the fed government is (quietly talking- so I have read- of an additional .10 cent per gal fuel tax or UP 56% (@ .18.4 FED currently) .
Each state will probably want to get on the bandwagon also.
Police in Manila are looking to convert their patrol cars to run on a mixture of diesel and used cooking oil from McDonald's, officials and the company said Tuesday.
With oil prices at crippling highs, the project would convert cars in the Makati financial district to run on a mix of 40 percent diesel and 60 percent cooking oil, its police chief Senior Superintendent Gilbert Cruz said.
Used cooking oil will be donated by Makati outlets of the hamburger giant, said McDonalds franchising manager Buth Salaya.
Your not only right but it's even worse then what you have pointed out. Today a local radio talk guy thats very well liked by the over 35 set had a hour or more on fuel, oil, cars that save fuel and all the things that go with it. Did anyone on this show mention that if America just dumped CARB and EPA stopped sipping the anti diesel cool aid and mandated that all OEM's offered at least 50 percent of there output with diesel American would be out of the so called fuel crisis and most of the way to cutting of the Putins and Hugo's of the world. When are the American law makers, voters and OEM's going to wake up?
"...and mandated that all OEM's offered at least 50 percent of there output with diesel American would be out of the so called fuel crisis and most of the way to cutting of the Putins and Hugo's of the world."
Do you really want a mandate? Why not mandate people walk or bike to work if their commute is only a few miles. Or maybe we should mandate only small cars.
You are also forgetting that diesel demand is rather robust right now - hence the higher price of diesel over RUG. Increasing the demand without a corresponding increase in supply will only increase the price. Refineries have not shifted enough production to diesel to bring down the price. Can they? In the next year if we do not see a big increase in diesel supply we can probably assume that diesel production is at the max.
As a reminder, I have mentioned this a few times before , one only needs to look at what happened when Europe went to 50% diesel cars. Their refineries ended up with excessive gasoline that ended up in North America. More diesel demand in the U.S. will increase the price of diesel and lower the price of RUG.
What you advocate (50% diesel) might just increase the price of diesel to $6 a gallon and bring RUG down to $3 a gallon. Sounds like a good idea to me. :shades:
Comments
It is really time to blow the lid off of the underlying assumptions that have in effect added to the inertia toward adoption of diesel.
You did the percentages in reverse - the percentage increases are 43%/39%/44% (the lower number is the base, not the higher). And again, this is a V6 turbo diesel, not a V8.
kcram - Pickups Host
So for example: the VW Jetta TDI
@ 50 mpg vs 1.8T @ 29 mpg is actually (50-29=21/29) = 72.4%!!!
I have of course, consistently said 50-29=21/50) 42%.
You/all have witness the bru ha ha with those (lower) numbers.
I have of course, consistently said 50-29=21/50) 42%.
And what you are doing wrong by using the lower number is stating it as a percentage increase. If you are calculating based on the higher/diesel value, the number you get is the percentage decrease from diesel to gasoline, not the increase from gasoline to diesel.
A far simpler example:
* gas: 10 mpg
* diesel: 15 mpg
The increase to diesel is 5 mpg or 50% of the gas value.
The decrease to gas is 5 mpg or 33% of the diesel value.
Don't worry about who believes what... when you state the mathematics correctly, the calculation is eliminated as a point of debate.
kcram - Pickups Host
So for example:
if you are used to diesel, why on earth would you want LESS?
if you are used to gasser, why doesnt it make sense to get MORE mpg?
..
... What to do ???: for less than the stimulant checks, less than Katrina, the gov can offer a guaranteed one year swap out exchange program for these converters, and have these systems on cars in two months. Hopefully they will last as long as most converters, maybe a ten year average. Of course it's a gamble. Heck, the aftermarket might even take-off on this as people can get rid of their ineviatiably decaying EGR systems. We, already lost on solar hybrids. It's time for some risk. It's possible this program might only cost some executive hours. BTW, this catylast is relatively inexpensive, and we are looking at a ten to fifteen percent fuel efficiency improvement. Also, the systems installed will cost the vehicle manufacturers less than the EGR systems they will supersede.
This is what Agonne is saying about the regs:
However, the new regulations create severe engineering problems for diesel engine manufacturers. For example, current truck engines barely meet the current standards (4 grams per brake horsepower-hour [g/bhp-h] of NOx and 0.1 g/bhp-h of particulates). The task of getting a 50% reduction seems as difficult as squeezing water from a rock. In particular, the manufacturers are now caught in a bind between the regulations on particulates and the regulations on NOx.
The more I see what CARB and the EPA are doing the more convinced to buy a two year old diesel SUV. Probably a recent Mercedes and strip out all the EGR & smog crap as they are not smog tested. That is the reason so many guys buy 3/4 ton trucks with diesel and remove all the smog stuff to make it run better. Straight pipes and remove all the sensors that cause fits.
I am convinced that the regulators will not be happy until they have killed the diesel market for all but big trucks. They know there is no alternative for that usage. They may be destroying the industry as a whole. Forcing operators to just keep rebuilding the older trucks.
http://www.anl.gov/techtransfer/Awards/docs/clean-diesel.html#Current%20Status
===========================================================
Until you address deliberate auto dependency everything else about oil dependency, oil companies, taxation, fuel alternatives, and the like is just whining in the cold wind of bad choices at the national and individual level.
Tick Tock
==========================================================
You can count the days until mandatory inspections are required. In all societies scofflaws that engage in illegal acts that harm others are dealt with severely.
Tick Tock
I agree with you 100%, the bureaucratic BS seems to delay improvements to the point they just go away or become so watered down they are worthless.
I have to ask, have you or anyone written your Rep. on this issue? I realize it’s like P***ing into the wind, but if enough power is pushed in that direction it might make something happen.
All of us on these boards [non-permissible content removed] and moan to each other about things that should be and that the government is run by idiots, but how many of us write to our Representatives to try and get something done?
I have written to my Congress person on many different issues and in some cases something was done. Was it my letter that turned the table, maybe in my dreams.
Most of the time I just get back a nice email thanking me, we are working on it, yada, yada, BS .. what ever, :mad: but I can’t say I didn’t try.
Excerpt:
Urea prices reached record highs in June 2008, which affected the “already tight” margins on AdBlue urea additive for diesel engines, according to AdBlue, the company that makes the additive.
And I am just as convinced that you are absolutely incorrect in that assessment.
Regulators only want cleaner air. If clean diesel cars can pass the muster in that area, they will be allowed to the party.
You'll see. More diesels are coming, and they will sell.
And I don't believe you read What our government lab said about EPA regulations concerning diesel engines. The term they used to describe the EPA diesel regs was "Squeezing water out of a rock".
As Roland has addressed, there are technologies available. Are they too expensive? I don't know. When will we reach the point of diminishing returns on emissions? I think we are past it.
You may be right and you may be wrong. Most smog checks are done from a certain point on out. Presently the State of CA does not test diesel vehicles for emissions. Does that make much sense if there is anything harmful that could come out of the tailpipe? Maybe it is easier to keep setting the bar higher to keep them out. Maybe now that most diesels are cleaner than most gassers they are stuck with coming up with a test.
Keep that clock ticking. You and I will be long gone before the ICE is.
We WILL Know The Answer.
When the 50-state-approved diesel cars hits the number it's supposed to hit in the next couple of years (what is that number - 10? 15?) then we will know who was correct.
THAT clock REALLY IS TICKING !!!
I looked hard at the Clubman this year. A diesel Clubman might very well grace my driveway someday.
Unless the VW Golf diesel hybrid is confirmed for the USA. Then it will be the leader of the pack.
Compared to the last one, this newest Jetta diesel is more powerful and its performance is noticeably improved. Fuel economy, however, fell a little short, though it should be noted that the review car came with just 200 miles on the odometer and had a six-speed automatic transmission. Nonetheless, our results were excellent: 45 miles per gallon overall and just over 50 miles per gallon on the highway.
Volkswagen has another stealth offering that will likely show up in Europe before it makes its way to North America. The VW Golf TDI Hybrid is equipped with a 74-horsepower three-cylinder TDI engine - (probably the 1.4-liter used in the VW Polo BlueMotion) - mated to a 27-horsepower electric motor and a seven-speed double-clutch DSG transmission.
There's a nickel-metal hydride battery in the trunk; a regenerative braking system helps keep it charged. The car has engine stop/start capability and a full-electric mode at low speed. An "energy monitor" display on the dashboard, like the one found in the Prius, keeps tabs on what the powertrain is doing.
VW projects that its hybrid Golf will get around 70 m.p.g. and have very low emissions. If VW builds the Golf (a.k.a. Rabbit) hybrid and imports it to the U.S., it's a guaranteed hit and a potential Prius killer.
Glad it's finally getting there.
is it ok if i run an 07 duramax with aftermarket flash just until I need glasses?
what happens to a duramax if a piece of road debris were to accidentally fly up and sever the fuel-pump/whatever which pumps fuel into the particle-trap for the 'regen cycle'?
what if a land-shark were to chomp off the entire particle-trap and regen-fuel=pump while coughing a shark-lung into the intake and precisely blocking the EGR? it could happen. mpg improvement? who knows?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
http://www.leftlanenews.com/vw-tdi-jettas-eligible-for-1300-tax-credit.html
Because of “mostly” the weak dollar and exchange rate VW has done the following; They originally were going to build 12,000 TDI Jetta wagons and sedans combined for the MY 2009 to be distributed to 643 VW dealers in the US. That number has been dropped to 8,000 TDI combined for MY 2009. He also said they (most dealer, not VW) are adding about $4,000 over MSRP for the TDI’s
Bottom line, I guess, is forget the diesel for this year and see if the numbers increase for 2010.
Way to go VW!!! Yet another car company that can't run off the cliff as fast enough. Guess they've been studying the GM play book for too many years!
Low sales, high fuel and greedy car dealers :mad: I wouldn't buy a VW under those circumstances. Looks like VW will join the ranks of Puegot, Renault, Fiat and Triumph racing with Mitsubishi to see who can go out of business first. Mitsu seems to have problems similar to VW.
This is why people wait for Honda and Toyota to make diesels.
Considering the weak dollar it is surprising that they make money selling the car in the US at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Jetta
"Additionally, the Mark 5 went on sale in the USA prior to any other country, reflecting the importance of the car in that market for VW.[76] US$800 million was spent upgrading the factory in Puebla for its production. This included a US$290 million new engine production line for the 5 cylinder power plant, a US$50 million investment in the press shop, as well as a US$200 million purchase of 460 robots, which increased automation by 80%."
The diesel engines have been and probably will remain "Made in Germany"
The diesel engines have been and probably will remain "Made in Germany"
An engine shortage would be a valid excuse; the weak dollar is hard to swallow. If the weak dollar was truly the reason for not selling many TDI’s then why are they so willing to sell other cars. Can the engine alone be the make or break issue? I’m having a hard time buying all of this.
It would be nice to have someone speak up and tell us the truth. VW has never in recent times brought in all the TDI’s they could sell and I have to wonder “why”.
VW has said all along it needs to increase its market share in the US and yet they dribble in TDI’s for no obvious reason other than to line the pockets of the greedy dealers.
They could have allocated 25,000 to the US market and sold them all before the end of the year IMO
For example, the 03 TDI MY (I have read in passing) was 4% or app 10,000 units of a US production of 250,000 units.
If I understand you correctly, in MY 2003 only 10,000 TDI’s were produced for the US market.
If it were 10,000 TDI Jetta sedans the number seems reasonable, but if it includes Beetle, Golf, Jetta, etc. the number seems very low.
Considering the weak dollar it is surprising that they make money selling the car in the US at all.
The dealers will help screw up any good that the parent company will be able to do. Greed works like that.
MSRP means they are making money at that price. Dealers always want more. I'll still check it out but I always pay less than MSRP or I don't buy. VW is having enough troubles as it is. They need to get their dealers back inline or they'll be on the ropes worse than they are now.
You'd almost think VW didn't have a rock-solid and time-tested track record of terrible quality, horrendous dealership service and incredibly expensive repairs and service.
Go figure.
While this is not news, small ( to mid sized cars and the ones that get BETTER economy than worse) have experienced a huge resurgence in interest. It goes without saying there are many segments (as well as oem's that produce in those segments) that have WAY excess inventory. As a consequence they (segments and oems) are hurting. Needless to say, if one is in the market for a new vehicle in these (less desireable) DEALS is the operative word !?
So for example, (Honda) Civics are literally out of inventory and the 2008 model year is about to / if not already has closed. Dealers can probably sell ANY (Civic, Fit, etc. )inventory over and above 2008 alottments. On the other hand, I am sure they have far more inventory than they would wish, i.e., Ridgeline/Odyssey/Pilot .
I can literally sell a 2004 Civic with 70,000 miles for $500 less than I paid, NEW.
The fact that the car makers weren't able to forsee a huge upsurge in small cars sales just means they will of course sell less cars since large cars and SUV's are on the decline in sales. They have no excuse for next year tho.
I could sell my 2008 Civic Si but no chance I can sell it for $500 less than I paid for it.
I just might sell it tho. My wife wants a New Fit and I think I'll go for a Mini Cooper S.
So come October we will see.
Mini's take a long time to order right now tho. :sick:
Exactly.
VW has a long way to go regain public confidence in product and service. Having dealers gouging the public on a desired product is not in VW best interest and I would think the head office would be a little “upset” with dealers that are greedy and undermining VW’s objectives.
It might pay to go to VW home page and email the head office with a note voicing our displeasure. Keep it short and to the point, it will only accept a small amount of words.
BIL bought a new (stretch) Mini Cooper. He paid MSRP (+??? ). It was literally the LAST of its kind (inventory) in a major US city/area. He was not real pleased to pay MSRP (+?) as he has been the almost supreme wheeler dealer for almost anything, but he WAS happy to even get one.
My Si is great! I does everything well. It's not a Porsche but the 968 I had was always needing something expensive. I've owned VW's in the past. I've driven plenty of diesels overseas as well. VW has credibility issues with dependability and yet My Honda like all the others I've owned before it were more a victim of my boredom than anything to do with the life of the car.
I have yet to own a car that I'd want to own for more than 3 years. My last car I owned for 6 years. But now that I don't drive 35-50k miles a year. I figure I can own what I like.
The Mini is nice but our dealer is not only far but complicated to get to as they are on the wrong side of a divided lane highway, you have to drive miles past the dealership then turn around and go back.
If you miss the dealership you are looking at 20 minutes of driving, minimum, to get back to the dealership. Add that on top on a 1.5 hour drive to get there.
Mini you have to pay MSRP. But everyone does. The Prius is a mass market car and happens to be popular right now and if gas were to drop to $3 a gallon or just under it, then people would move back into larger vehicles.
Either way VW dealers gouging is not going to help VW in any way.
... "VW has credibility issues with dependability and yet My Honda like all the others I've owned before it were more a victim of my boredom than anything to do with the life of the car."...
The other issue which might be the sound of one hand clapping is given your quote, Honda (other Japanese OEMS also) is/are having challenging times in the European market with both their gas/diesels. Europeans are also value conscious; as fuel approaches 9/10 per gal and car maintenance is even higher than in the US. So for example I would tolerate neither VW/Honda if either/both proved unreliable/not durable.
While I think under 3 per gal RUG is easily do able, I truly do not see it going back to those levels as the logistic chain AND environmentalists have achieved their goals of ever increasing prices for fuel. Indeed the fed government is (quietly talking- so I have read- of an additional .10 cent per gal fuel tax or UP 56% (@ .18.4 FED currently) .
Each state will probably want to get on the bandwagon also.
link title
So if states and fed are successful add a min of + .10 FED and .10 State= .20 to current prices. The percentages are literally usury.
With oil prices at crippling highs, the project would convert cars in the Makati financial district to run on a mix of 40 percent diesel and 60 percent cooking oil, its police chief Senior Superintendent Gilbert Cruz said.
Used cooking oil will be donated by Makati outlets of the hamburger giant, said McDonalds franchising manager Buth Salaya.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080729100013.adncmy7o&show_article=1
Today a local radio talk guy thats very well liked by the over 35 set had a hour or more on fuel, oil, cars that save fuel and all the things that go with it.
Did anyone on this show mention that if America just dumped CARB and EPA stopped sipping the anti diesel cool aid and mandated that all OEM's offered at least 50 percent of there output with diesel American would be out of the so called fuel crisis and most of the way to cutting of the Putins and Hugo's of the world.
When are the American law makers, voters and OEM's going to wake up?
Do you really want a mandate? Why not mandate people walk or bike to work if their commute is only a few miles. Or maybe we should mandate only small cars.
You are also forgetting that diesel demand is rather robust right now - hence the higher price of diesel over RUG. Increasing the demand without a corresponding increase in supply will only increase the price. Refineries have not shifted enough production to diesel to bring down the price. Can they? In the next year if we do not see a big increase in diesel supply we can probably assume that diesel production is at the max.
As a reminder, I have mentioned this a few times before
What you advocate (50% diesel) might just increase the price of diesel to $6 a gallon and bring RUG down to $3 a gallon. Sounds like a good idea to me. :shades: