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Diesels in the News

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That single action annoys the heck out of me.

    All the writer was trying to do, is set aside the stodgy image of diesel cars. Almost every test you read about for new cars includes a 0-60 MPH result. Even the real stodgy hybrids.

    I do agree that blasting from light to light gains little and wastes a lot of fuel. I just wish there were some more choices in SUVs or CUVs with 4 cylinder diesel engines. If my wife's granddaughter buys our Sequoia, I will have to make a decision. The BMW X5, ML or GL Mercedes or the Q7 from Audi. The ML blutec has it for comfort. The X5 for sheer driving enjoyment. Have not test driven the Q7 TDI.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I think the only options are maybe a Patriot, the Rogue, a RAV4, and the Equinox. There are just hardly any 4 cylinder (gas engine) SUVs available any more.

    Diesels come with such a high premium currently that driving them well over 100K miles usually won't do more than just break even.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    There are two good reasons to have a 4 cylinder diesel that goes beyond breaking even for me. First is the torque pulling long hills. 4 cylinder gas engines are near worthless. Second is range. With most diesel vehicles currently on the highway, I can get about 600 miles between fuel stops. I am looking for a station with my Sequoia when I hit 300 miles. The Tiguan would be a decent sized CUV with a TDI engine. I don't think VW will carry through with an earlier promise. That only leaves 6 cylinder diesel SUVs. The ML350 bluetec will get 30 MPG on the highway. Giving it a range well over 600 miles. No gas SUV can come close and still give good towing capacity and off road performance.
  • gfr1gfr1 Member Posts: 55
    gagrice -- If you are looking for range, as I do, I'd never consider a BMW. They consistently have smaller fuel tanks than their competition, in all models. Consider Audi 8 & Mercedes S, at 23.8 gal. BMW 7 has 21.7. And their 2011 highway mpg is listed as 25, whereas the "8" & "S" have models that can get up to 26 mpg, highway. Similar differences with their next size down, etc. -- gfr1
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    No more sedans for us. It hurts my back getting out of the LS400 every time I drive it. Too low to the ground. Not to mention the condition of our roads in So California. The state is near bankrupt and our infrastructure shows it. You are right about BMW compared to MB and Audi. The ML has 25+ gallons and the Q7 26+ gallons. The X5 has 22.5 gallons. The ML350 has nicer seats and more the 4 foot smaller turning circle.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,785
    Paging Gagrice to the white courtesy phone...

    2012 GLK

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    That is great news and something to wait for. I like the GLK size vehicle. Just not with a premium gas guzzling engine. Make mine in pearl white. With light tan leather seats.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Will 2011 be the year of the diesel?

    No, 2011 will not be year of the diesel.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    I would have to agree with that, and go a bit further to say that 2012 will not be the year of the diesel either. Currently I'm driving an '09 TDI and rather enjoying it, but I don't believe that diesels will become mainstream anytime soon in the US.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    What about diesel?
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Patriot switches to 2.2L MB diesel

    2.2L Mercedes Benz diesel engine is offered in Jeep Patriot for versions sold in Europe.
    This 2.2L MB diesel in the Patriot is available in US emissions spec..
    Bring it to the United States!
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    2.2L Mercedes Benz diesel engine is offered in Jeep Patriot for versions sold in Europe.
    This 2.2L MB diesel in the Patriot is available in US emissions spec..
    Bring it to the United States!

    Just read this over Skype to a fellow Brit carnut. He said, and I quote :

    "Please God, let them have that Mercedes diesel but don't inflict the car on them"

    Quite. ;)
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    A VW diesel is only just run-in at 40k miles and Vw does not limit the engine warranty to that ridiculously low figure.

    Best-lived VW diesel I have actually seen - owner lives locally here in UK - had 315k miles in 4 years on a VW 1.9 TDi, (it's a Skoda Octavia used as a taxi doing mainly airport etc runs). No problems or replacements other than normal wear items and by-the-book servicing. He came to swap it and the dealer advised him to keep it as it was worth nothing on the market. So he did - his wife now uses it for the school run etc and is adding to the mileage at circa 5k miles p.a.

    They're built to last and they like being used.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I like the idea of diesels and even owned a wonderful Mercedes 240D back in the 80's. But the truth is, at this time, fuel costs are such a small part of the cost of automobile ownership, that any savings, if any, would be hardly noticeable. Diesels make more sense in Europe because fuel costs are so much higher.

    I am afraid that until diesels become most cost effective I will have to stick to gasoline.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    How are diesels not cost effective. The fuel economy more than makes up for the slightly higher cost of fuel, and maintenance is about a wash.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    If you compare apples to apples the diesel is less expensive in most models available in the USA. I am looking at the MB ML350 Bluetec. To get comparable torque in a gas version you will spend at least $5000 more and be stuck using Premium unleaded. Have a range of at least 200 miles less, not to mention using 30% more gas than the diesel ML.

    With the VW diesels the cost difference is consumer demand. No one really wants a gas powered Jetta Sportswagen. So you can get a deal on a gasser if you want an under powered vehicle. That was my impression driving the 2.5 L gas version.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Yep, it's the up front cost that causes the problem. Of course, if you're keeping the car for 10 years it really doesn't matter. Also, you'll get most all of it back on resale. But for slightly lower fuel costs many aren't willing to pony up the initial $$.
  • yesdiesel1yesdiesel1 Member Posts: 23
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,618
    Ah, yes, another non-post post.

    With luck, the site will be fixed in the not-too-distant future.

    I fought (successfully) with the new setup this morning and actually managed to post my thoughts.

    Took three tries.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • yesdiesel1yesdiesel1 Member Posts: 23
    Whats wrong with this site?
    I will try to shorten this up as I don't want to do it again.
    If you understand BSFC then this should be easy for you engineer types.
    How can both OEM's and EPA ignore the need for energy to move any given load some distance with diesel it's BTU's that count.
    What about electricity dose it not take X BTU's to make a KW of Toyota power & Volt.
    So whats the value of grid power to HP per hour?
  • yesdiesel1yesdiesel1 Member Posts: 23
    It appears that someone at Edmond's has made this site better? Why? Facebook, give me a brake adults don't give up there info on open Internet and kids don't care about cars, fuel or anything else thats not covered by Consumers Report.
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    I'm 35 and use facebook, but I don't talk much about cars on it. In fact, I can think of precisely zero times I have ever wanted to post the same thing here and on facebook at the same time.
  • coontie66coontie66 Member Posts: 110
    I use facebook and would not have seen it... I use friends ONLY as my settings.
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    Well, right, so do I.. but my point is, that I have two very different communities here. Edmunds is a place I talk about cars to relative or even complete strangers. I recognize some names after years of the forums, of course, but for the most part we're just like-minded strangers talking cars.

    Facebook is real friends. And like I said, I have never written anything here that I would also post on Facebook.
  • yesdiesel1yesdiesel1 Member Posts: 23
    I was wondering why no one had addressed my question about the fuel used to move an EV when I noticed that this site has gone dormant.
    Why?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    1 hp = 750 Watts, more or less, so 1 hp-hr = 0.75 KW-Hr (not 'per hour')
    1 KW-Hr cost about $0.12 here in TX, so 1 hp-hr would cost about $0.09.
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Oh dear, 2011 has started off badly. There's me believing all the guff about EV's being non-polluting and now it seems that their ref-fuel power comes from the grid. Now, if the power on the grid is all generated by nuclear, geothermal, solar or wave-power, (not even getting into the farce of wind-power), then I may just accept that it's less polluting. BUT.............isn't most grid power generated by burning those nasty hydrocarbons; coal/gas/oil ? The heat generated raises steam to drive turbines to drive generators to put electric power into the grid. If memory serves, (and it's been a long time since I had to do any calculations), aren't there some scary losses at every stage of this process ? Shock horror. :confuse:

    Hmmm. Maybe not quite as green, overall, as the powers-that-be would have us believe. Think I'll stick with diesel until such time as I can buy - and refuel - a Honda Clarity FCX or it's derivative. That could be a long time as, here in the UK, we don't have a single commercial Hydrogen retail site. :mad:
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Oh the inconvenient truth about electric vehicles. Not to mention the lack of range. And when the USA wastes billions putting in charging stations where people will have to pay a PREMIUM on the electricity, the early EV adopters will be screaming. Hydrogen is as far off today as it was 20 years ago. All those Honda FCX that were to be leased. Last I read only 3 had been put into service. That has to have gone sour on Honda or you would be seeing lots of positive press releases. The last Honda news release was June 2008. Going on 3 years since we heard a peep about hydrogen. Just not a practical fuel. Takes too much natural gas and the maintenance is horrible.

    So you can keep driving those diesels you lucky dog. We will keep drooling over what you have in the EU. Happy New Year.... :)
  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Fully agree on the Hydrogen front. Reminds me of the 1960's promises that by the end of the century we'd all be whizzing around in flying cars that piloted themselves. All very Flash Gordon.

    The mighty Honda Clarity FCX has been on a promo tour of Europe. Spent a whole day in London, doing not much, and was then whisked off to Germany 'cos there was nowhere to refuel it in this fair land. Hardly a marketing tour de force.

    Here in QE II's kingdom we have just had an increase in VAT from 17.5% to 20% and we're about to get another hike in road fuel duty; supposedly to fund eco-stuff but actually to aid bail-out the bust economy. One of my local fuel stations, a BP one, has ULSD at an eye-watering $8.69 per US Gallon equivalent. Gasoline is not far behind. The natives are, finally, starting to get restless..............most are already revolting; but that's in quite another sense of that word. :D

    The market for used big gassers is getting shakier by the minute and the market for new ditto is close to dead. Was sitting in a new Honda Legend, (3.5 V6 gasser), recently and the dealer offered it to me for, "a little over half-price" with the rider that "but we're prepared to haggle". I drove away in my Volvo S60 D5 smiling the smile of the smug dieselist. :)

    Happy New Year to you and yours, also, young sir.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Mercedes, Audi Challenge Lexus Hybrids in U.S. With Diesel

    Not much of substance in this article.
  • colin_lcolin_l Member Posts: 591
    I'd sure like a non-luxury brand besides VW to offer a diesel car in the US.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    from Automotive News
    quote
    Porsche is considering selling diesel versions of its Cayenne SUV and the Panamera sedan in the United States, its biggest single market. The brand may also unveil Panamera variants with a diesel engine and a gasoline-electric hybrid powertrain at the Geneva auto show in March.

    The models would help Porsche to meet demand for fuel-efficient cars that is growing fast even among luxury car buyers.

    "We are discussing internally if we should introduce the Cayenne diesel in the U.S. this year. Also a Panamera diesel is an option," Bernhard Maier, the brand's sales and marketing chief, told Automotive News Europe.

    Maier said Porsche has noticed that consumers in the U.S., where diesels currently have only a tiny market share, are increasingly choosing diesel cars. "We will make a decision soon," he said.
    -end quote
  • fawltytowers44fawltytowers44 Member Posts: 58
    "With the retirement of its last diesel bus earlier this month, the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA) became the only major transit agency in the United States with a 100 percent alternative fuel fleet, the Los Angeles Times reports. The MTA has 2,221 CNG buses, one electric bus, and six gasoline-electric hybrids. The Southern California Rapid Transit District and the Los Angeles County Transportation Commission, which combined to form the MTA in 1993, began experimenting with alternative fuels in the late 1980s. The agency took delivery of its first CNG buses in 1995. Transit officials say that eliminating diesel engines has reduced the release of cancer causing particulates from the bus fleet by an estimated 80 percent and greenhouse gases by about 300,000 pounds a day. The agency still contracts with private bus lines that have yet to fully convert. Of the 187private buses in service for the MTA, 82 have diesel engines. Transit officials say they should be phased out in the next several years."
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Study Shows Diesel Engines Recuperate Extra Cost Quickly

    quote-
    Carnegie Mellon Tepper School of Business showed that purchasers of diesel engines could recuperate the extra cost of their purchase within 18 months because of greater fuel efficiency and end up with vehicles worth up to 30 percent more than their gas-engine equivalents.
    -end
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I guess diesel in LA is NOT considered an "alternative fuel?"

    Wonder why not?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Los Angeles has a high CARB Nut count. Really nothing wrong with buses running on natural gas. It is US grown and very clean. Just lacks the power and does not get great mileage. Most cities in CA have their own CNG stations for buses. Same with some of the taxi companies. Cab drivers tell me it is about the same as RUG on cost per mile basis. Just short range with more fill-ups in a day.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,785
    Here is a promising update from Audi for you diesel lovers.

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    An A4 Allroad with the 2.0L TDI would be my choice. Not likely for a while. Good news though.
  • roland3roland3 Member Posts: 431
    ... I've seen it elsewhere, but Diesel Power magazine conjectures that Pres Limo One is a Duramax. I talked to a NSA guy about his Linkenfelter, supercharged, 502, gasser, three inch glass, Suburban would be better served by a Diesel, but he either feigned indifference, or actually was. Very short hair and humorless.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I found this blurb on the Prez' Limo:

    According to Presidential vehicle experts, the new limo is a beast-like General Motors truck-based Cadillac that is so tough it’s like a ‘rolling tank with windows.’

    Among the vehicle’s main features are windows that are 5 inches thick, 19.5-inch Goodyear RHS tires (same as super tough trucks)

    Being built on the 3/4 ton chassis means the D'Max is more than likely the engine to carry all that extra weight. It is basically a tank that looks like a Caddy.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Here is the COOLEST thing about Presidential security vehicles:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2190938/posts

    While nice, we're more interested in the Gatling gun-equipped Suburban that follows Cadillac One. Here's video of the bullet-spraying Chevy in action.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited March 2011
    Hope that guy does not have a bad day. He could wreak havoc in a Presidential parade. That is an amazing gun.
  • roland3roland3 Member Posts: 431
    ... The DOE (Google News) has a new program to help start-ups with any tech from a National lab. Argonne's DeNOx catalyst that removes 80 percent of NOx from Diesel combustion is available. Hopefully this will put an end to the SCR debacle.
  • roland3roland3 Member Posts: 431
    ... Naw, something developed in the USA that might get rid of EGR and SCR-urea; well it will take a little common sense from the regulators (if they keep total carbon output in mind) by a small allowance of NOx, and it just might happen.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I just don't see the will of the EPA or CARB to promote cleaner diesel cars. I think it has more to do with road tax than emissions or using less fossil fuel.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I don't think it's in the EPA's bailiwick to worry about road tax collection.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Oh please !!!! You really don't think those folks are worried about their pensions?
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Whose pension?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    EPA, CARB and other legislative and regulatory bodies.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Um, no I don't think anyone at the EPA is saying, "If we don't change the road tax, I won't get retirement money."

    That's silly.
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