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Diesels in the News

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Comments

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    The new V6 CDI engine is a 3L unit, not a 3.2L not sure why they're calling it a "320" when "300" would be more accurate. Oh well. The only way I think the U.S. will see a V8 diesel Mercedes is in the form of a S420 CDI version of the new S-Class. I agree, a E420 CDI would be an interesting model in between the E350 and E500 and in wagon/4Matic form it would be a ultimate in Benz workhorses. A Swiss Army Knife type of car for sure. MBUSA will never do this however. They'll be watching to see how the 2007 E320 CDI sells with 4Matic before even thinking about importing a wagon version, and then you want a V8 version? Whew....tall wish. :D There is talk of a R320 CDI for 2007 though.

    I think once the cleaner diesel is available and if prices come down you'll see a large diesel push on the part of MB, BMW, and Audi. The BMW 535d is an awesome car by everything I've seen on it. It makes the 525i and 530i utterly pointless in hp/torque and performance.

    M
  • cctdicctdi Posts: 82
    From what I was told by the MB Headquarter is in the foreseeable 07, there will be ML in the diesel form, what we don’t know is the displacement of that engine. The V6 3L is going to replaced the heavier but smoother and more durable inline 3.2. For me, I am not going for the lighter, smaller 3.L, even it has more HP! If you want to do it, go for the bigger one, not in the heavy car like ML though. If VW puts the V10 TDI in a lighter vehicle, that will be a sweet move! I read a line in Edmunds’ comments on 07 S-Class, that MB is considering the diesel engine for the S. If such a car would be 4matic for USA, I may be tempted. I do pray the E420 CDI in Europe would come to the States for the option!
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Audi TDI at Le Mans

    Diesel is no stranger to Nascar and has been used at Indy, now diesel is being introduced to Le Mans.
    Very nice.
  • On the Dodge website, you can now design a Dodge Caliber and the 2.0L turbodiesel is showing as an option...it's $4420, though. Still, awesome that it's available!

    Now if Honda would only bring their 2.4L turbodiesel...
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/13422298.htm

    In the far back office of the Carl's Corner truck stop on Interstate 35 East, Carl Cornelius sits at a desk, taking calls on a speaker phone and chain-smoking Pall Malls.

    "You gotta dream," insists Cornelius, who is lately dreaming of an entire town - his - built on the promise of, well, french fry grease.

    No, he's not fantasizing about a long strip of fast-food joints abutting the highway.

    Early this year, Carl's Corner became the center of the current hubbub surrounding biodiesel, an alternative vehicle fuel that can be made from vegetable oil, seed oil or animal fat, and can run diesel-powered vehicles. Biodiesel's champions, which include farmers and environmentalists, tout the fuel's benefits at every opportunity: Biodiesel is a renewable resource, homegrown in the United States and relatively clean-burning - everything its crude-oil counterpart is not, and part of the solution to America's reliance on foreign energy, they say.

    It helps to have friends in high places, and Cornelius has one of the loftiest: Willie Nelson. A champion of the American farmer, Nelson got into the biodiesel business last March, opening his first BioWillie fuel pump at Carl's Corner, about 45 minutes south of Fort Worth, Texas. The premiere of BioWillie has attracted celebrity-style attention to the fuel and the 65-year-old Cornelius.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    The Sierra Club's Becker points out, too, that the energy used to produce biodiesel cancels out a portion of the energy it saves. In other words, fertilizing and cultivating the plant, extracting the oil, transporting it to the manufacturing plant and refining it uses up a lot of energy.

    I wonder if this is the same Sierra Club leader that filed suit against the Army Corps of engineers in 1996. That suit is responsible for stopping the Corps from increasing the size of the levees in New Orleans. The same levees that gave way in Katrina. He sounds like a total obstructionist to me. Go Willie, keep making that biodiesel. Five stations are due to start selling it in SD the first of the year. You can support an American farmer or a Saudi Prince your choice.
  • diesel and AWD. I'm juat a manual transmission away from giving up my subaru!
  • Is Dodge confirming a diesel option for US? or just Europe will be getting this? :confuse:
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    I sure how the next fives years of LMP1 racing around the world won't be like the last five in which mostly Audi R8s won with little competition (boring racing).

    check the link

    link one

    link two
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    How long before NASCAR starts using the superior diesel engines? It would sure be easier on the drivers not shifting all the time to keep in the narrow power band of the gas engines.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    its all emissions... the US does not yet have the low sulfur diesel fuel that Europe has, so we can't make the required standards.

    Some places do have it already, if the local refinery's made the necessary upgrades. We've had it for 2-3 years now and I do see the occasional late-model VW and MB diesels around.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    How long before NASCAR starts using the superior diesel engines?

    The day after never. They still run carburetors, pushrods, and coil-spring trailing-arm suspensions (state-of-the-art circa 1969), so there's no chance of ever seeing a direct-injection turbodiesel anything from them.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    I emailed Subaru inquiring about the possibility of a diesel Subaru in the U.S. and this is their response.
    Thank you for visiting the Subaru Web site and for your comment. Subaru of America has no plans at this time to offer diesel engine models.

    Other countries may be offering this feature, which may increase the poosbility of Subaru of America offering this in the future. To inquire with the Subaru Distributors of other countries, you can access their web sites from the 'Subaru Around the World' link on the home page of Subaru.com. Simply click the word 'Home' at the top, and a drop down box will appear, from which you can choose 'Subaru Around the World'.

    We will forward your message to our Product Planning Department for their future consideration. In the past, input from our owners has been helpful in initiating changes to our newer models. We hope to continually improve our products and appreciate your inquiry.

    Samir Hasan
    Subaru of America, Inc.
    Customer/Dealer Services Department
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    I have written four letters to auto makers (Honda, Toyota, Ford and GM) inquiring about diesel offerings in the U.S. by mid 2006 when USDL will be widely available. No responce yet.
    Perhaps if everyone flooded them with request for diesels in the U.S. they might take notice.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    Good idea, I will write them. Also BMW has diesels that are tearing up the roads in the EU. The first midsized PU with a diesel gets my money. Unless it is really ugly like the Ridgeline.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    The day after never. They still run carburetors, pushrods, and coil-spring trailing-arm suspensions (state-of-the-art circa 1969), so there's no chance of ever seeing a direct-injection turbodiesel anything from them

    Unlike what the ALMS (American Le Mans Series)and the LMES (Le Mans Endurance Series) have, NASCAR actually has competition and passing. I look forward to the 2006 ALMS season, but the high costs have driven some teams to Grand-Am. check the link for Grand-Am racing

    sports car racing

    A stock car is limited by restrictor plates and other stuff from being faster. That is set into the cars to make for closer racing.

    "Brembo engineers consider NASCAR the most severe application in race-car brakes."

    - Road and Track September 2005
  • I emailed Subaru inquiring about the possibility of a diesel Subaru in the U.S. and this is their response.

    At this point, Subaru seems to be more interested in hybrid development.

    But, the recent Toyota alliance may further diesel development.

    I would like to stay Subaru, but my next car will likely be a diesel. I am hoping that the Mazda 5 diesel will be here in a couple years.

    John
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    The day after never has already arrived, and is now part of history.

    How long before NASCAR starts using the superior diesel engines?

    The day after never. They still run carburetors, pushrods, and coil-spring trailing-arm suspensions (state-of-the-art circa 1969), so there's no chance of ever seeing a direct-injection turbodiesel anything from them.


    NASCAR Craftsman series races with diesels. Direct injection diesels as a matter of fact. Turbodiesels. BIG Turbos.
    NASCAR is POWERSTROKIN!
  • A Mazda3 and 5 turbodiesel would really be great. I've read a review of the Euro Mazda5 TD and the reviewers really liked it. Hopefully soon!
  • I agree...I am ready to buy, but not on the first surge. I want a quality vehicle built around the power plant, not simply a different engine. My gasoline car days are numbered.

    John
  • I ask this in all sincerity. My mechanical knowledge is very limited. The reason that I ask this is that I work nights and my job sends me home in "taxis" that are Lincoln Town Cars - these are regular gas cars. I always make a note of the mileage on these cars as they have an easy to read digital odometer that is visible from the back seat.

    Easily half of these cars have readings of 200,000 miles plus. And I have been in a handful with 350,000 plus miles. I always pretend to be surprised and aske the driver when he had his engine and transmission rebuilt. Uniformly, the response is that the engine and trans are original.

    Now, where are the diesel cars that supposedly last so much longer? I would expect that there are Mercedes with 750,000 miles on them still running. But I do not see them. Strangely, I see only new Mercedes. What happens to all those old long-lasting Mercedes - are they shipped abroad?

    As a side-note - the Japanese are so much better in their advertising, it hurts. Why doesn't Ford have a TV-commercial with these taxi drivers with their 350,000 mile town cars? They don't even promote the town car. If I didn't need alot of cargo space, I would buy a town car. But strangely, my ford E250 cargo van is possessed by electrical ghosts - go figure.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Posts: 1,640
    there is a lot that goes into durability besides the initial build. Maintenance, driving habits, road conditions, city vs highway, number of engine starts, idling time etc.

    It seems to me that big V-8s that stay continually at low rpms and never work up a sweat have higher durability than the 4 cylinder revver. But, you usually pay in terms of reduced mpg to have that unused power always on tap.

    Diesels are in some ways like that big V-8, only they are heavier in construction to withstand the high compression pounding on ignition. Thus, in theory, the combination of low rpms and heavy construction = longevity.

    John
  • Diesel combustion occurs under much higher pressure than gasoline. As a result, the engines have to be built much stronger. Diesels tend to last longer than gasoline because of this. I have seen stories of Mercedes diesels running 500k plus without a rebuild.

    Diesel fuel currently isn't any cheaper than gasoline in the U.S. but that's not the case in Europe (thus diesel popularity there). It may be the same here in the not too distant future, which would make diesels that much more appealing. Also, if I'm not mistaken, diesel fuel can be processed domestically which would lessen dependence on foreign oil.

    The other, and in my opinion best, advantage of diesel engines is the huge amount of torque available at low rpm. A diesel will jump from a stop and, under partial throttle, accelerate like a gasoline engine twice its size. Of course, under full throttle the gasoline engine will usually perform better as they have a horsepower advantage at high rpm. Diesels usually redline at about 5000 rpm or less and there's no vaild reason to wind them anywhere near that high.

    The exception to that would be the new wave of high performance diesels. BMW makes turbodiesels that rival same size gasoline engines in overall performance. Honda also has diesel engines in its European products and, at least in the Civic, the diesel actually outperforms the gasoline engine.

    The downside to diesels are lack of filling stations (relative to gasoline), added expense at time of purchase (at least for now, perhaps future diesels won't cost more) and added engine complexity. Modern diesels tend to be more complex because the vast majority of them are turbocharged to compensate for their inherent lack of horsepower. Turbochargers aren't cheap and traditionally only last about 100k miles.

    Hope this helps you out!
  • jkinzeljkinzel Posts: 735
    Speaking for myself, my reason for wanting a diesel is the increased fuel saving/better MPG. Compare the gas and diesel versions of VW Bug or the Jetta. Also look at the Jeep Liberty.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    Something to remember with those high-mileage town cars is that they're not started and stopped very often. A cabbie might put on a few hundred miles on a regular basis without shutting the engine down. Then, after a 1/2 hour lunch, he restarts the engine and it's still warm.

    Also, don't assume that because the engine's not been rebuilt that it's "still good". He might be pouring in a quart of oil a day and nursing a shot tranny.

    dave
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    forbes diesel article

    excerpt-typical diesel offers astonishing mileage (a new Volkswagen Jetta TDI diesel sedan gets 38 combined city/highway miles per gallon), and such new vehicles as DaimlerChrysler's diesel Mercedes-Benz E-Class sedan drive just like normal, gasoline cars--but hybrids are the darlings of the moment, because the technology is new and celebrities drive them. As soon as Oprah shows up to the Academy Awards in a diesel, things might change.

    The stage is set for the popularity of diesels to increase, especially as hybrids lose their newsworthiness.
    ......-end

    Decent article. Diesel and hybrids are both needed, as the hype and newnews wears off of the hybrids there is hope that diesels will re-emerge in North America.
    They certainly offer a better return on investement to improve economy without a high hardware cost.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Bluetec Daimler Diesel Push US

    Daimler will share the Mercedes diesel technology with Chrysler in vehicles to be sold in the US.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    The info. is three years old, at least it is now becoming public.

    Honda to bring diesel 4cyl to US

    quote-"The U.S. is our most important market and our top priority for diesels," says Motoatsu Shiraishi, president of R&D for Honda Motor Co.

    Bringing a diesel to this country is more important than expanding the number of diesel engines that Honda sells in Europe, where more than 50 percent of the vehicles are diesel powered, he says. -end
  • Anyone know which dodge/chrysler models will have diesel? My dream is a Caravan (I can't understand why anyone makes fun of this car) with AWD, diesel and a manual transmission.

    Has anyone bought the Dodge Caliber diesel yet?
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Grand Cherokee, Dodge Nitro, Wrangler, Dakota and then 300/Magnum/Charger.

    Caliber will not be offered with diesel in US initially and since the engine is a VW supplied one, may not be offered in North America at all.
  • Most large diesels are of the wet sleeve type including the Libertys, VM built CRD These engines cylinders are removable. They are cast from a much harder steel then an autos normal block so they wear very little. They also have the ability to be replaced this means these type engines can last for millions of miles. Turbos with proper care can also last as long on diesel engines. :D
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    more diesels predicted

    It is a consensus, there will be more diesel choices soon!
  • As more people realize how insanely complex hybrid systems are and as they realize the repair costs of hybrids and the fact that the batteries cost thousands of dollars, could hybrids backfire on the "clean" image of the Japanese auto makers?

    As more learn about clean diesel and that it is a tried and true technology, could the Germans kick Japan's butt in the US market?

    You would think Ford would have enough brains to bring over their diesel engines from Europe but I guess they are too focused on pie-in-the-sky hydrogen and what not in Detroit.

    Just some thoughts.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Hybrid systems are "complex" but anything that can be built can be fixed.

    All modern cars have complex components. Hybrid technology is just another option like ABS, stability control, etc.

    The repair costs of hybrids are nothing special, and anyone with a lick of sense buys an extended warranty on ANY new car.

    The fact that hybrids might require an expensive battery replacement at 150K miles will not harm carmakers at all in regard to the "green image" because for all 150K miles of that hybrid, it was cleaner in emissions than the comparable gas vehicle will be at 150K. And all the hybrids are 85% or more recyclable parts.

    Diesels have a LONG way to go before the USA will accept them in droves. That might someday happen, but when it does, the Japanese carmakers will have just as many good options as the Germans will.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 20,659
    I think you're a bit off assuming that the battery pack in hybrid will last 150K, I've read that it's in the 80-100K range. In that case it might be a real drag on the resale value and lease residuals for hybrids regardless of the green factor.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • There is a place for both as the two power trains are for different types of drivers. For my wife, she drives two miles to work and we use her car to run to the stores and take the kids to their activities. She'd be a perfect hybrid driver. But for me, I drive 35 minutes to work each day (one way) on the interstate and would get a diesel if they had one for my class of vehicle.

    What I am amazed at is that no manufacturers have said they are bringing out a hybrid diesel. Yes, I have seen these in concept form but there is a market for these right now. And yes, they would be expensive but only at perhaps a $1000 premimum over a hybrid priced vehicle right now if the power train is produced in volume. VW can sell a diesel for less than a $500 markup over it's current gasoline engine. For people paying in excess of $30 grand for a hybrid vehicle (Accord, Highlander, future Yukon), what's an extra grand (or two) if it improves your mileage by another 25%? Even hydrogen power will have a hard time against those mileage figures.

    The first manufacturer who makes this commitment will be the car manufacturer of the future. I hope it is American....
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Peugot/Citroen Diesel Hybrid

    What I am amazed at is that no manufacturers have said they are bringing out a hybrid diesel.

    Peugot will unviel diesel hybrid on 31 January.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Zetsche on diesels

    I will not buy a Chrysler vehicle unless it has a diesel!
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Import this to the US, bring the diesel, watch it sell.

    Chevrolet Captiva Diesel

    Edmunds
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/gossip/toyota-to-build-big-ol-diesel-truck-by-2009-- 146668.php

    The company is reportedly planning a “big diesel pickup” for the US market, though such a vehicle is likely three years away. Powering the torque monster will be a new big-block diesel V8 to be built at Toyota’s new San Antonio, Texas plant at a rate of around 70,000 per year. A new high-efficiency V8 and a gas-electric hybrid version of the Tundra, though that task has proven difficult according to company president Katsuaki Watanabe.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060116/SUB/60113071/1013

    New dash to diesels
    Farewell, soot and clatter: High-tech engines take on hybrids in fuel economy race

    Richard Truett
    Automotive News / January 16, 2006 - 6:00 am

    DETROIT - The diesel engine is back.

    Five automakers revealed plans at the North American International Auto Show to introduce fuel-saving diesel engines in cars and trucks.

    Mercedes-Benz confirmed that it will introduce five diesel models beginning this fall. Honda, BMW, Nissan and the Chrysler group each confirmed plans to add diesels to their lineups over the next three to four years.

    "All vehicle manufacturers are at least looking at the possibility of adding diesels to their cars and crossovers," said Anthony Pratt, senior manager for global powertrain forecasting at J.D. Power and Associates.

    In the early 1980s, diesels virtually vanished from U.S. cars because of strict emissions standards and issues such as noise, smoke and reliability. In the United States, Volkswagen is the only manufacturer that consistently offered diesel-powered cars.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Posts: 1,640
    I am a huge diesel fan, but I have my questions about dealing with the urea injection system that Mercedes is proposing for the California cars.

    Maybe I will sit out this first round if that is the only answer.

    John
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Even China believes that diesel is one of the fuels for the future.

    Alt. Fuels China = Diesel
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    Deep Fried Rides

    Adds new meaning to getting a "grease job".
  • Remember the GM diesels of the 80's they realy turn american off to diesel, because like much of what GM does it was a poorly concieved product.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,870
    The GM 5.7L diesel vehicles are now nearly 25 years old. They were sold in low numbers and the memory of these vehicles is not a strong as some may believe.
    Diesel will not fail due to the GM 5.7's, it will fail or succeed based on the quality of the products that are offered as we move forward.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,825
    Well that is like bemoaning the state of gasser vehicles during this time. The real questions are forward based.
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    It's funny that there seems such unity that these early GM diesel experiments ruined the rep of diesels. I have two friends who independently have told me how great these diesels were and that they ( whispered in a conspiritorial tone ) are trying to resist fuel economy or somesuch.

    I'm still patiently waiting for one of you guys to post that the 335d will be sold here soon. ;)

    dave
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