There is speculation that MINI will announce diesel option for MINI at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show. I'll be very surprised if this happens. If it does happen, I'm going to have to give the MINI some consideration for space in my garage.
Wow, an actual question about a diesel in the news. I'm shocked. I thought this thread was specifically to rant about CARB, mass transit, hybrids, and CNG busses...
BMW has announced that they're brining the 3 series and X5 to the US market in 09 with a diesel, so a Mini could be a possibility. Haven't heard that one myself, however.
I am hoping that there will be some word from the detroit show about which models will be available with diesel soon, and WHEN. VW's delay has been a bit depressing, and I'd like to see something affordable soon. MB and BMW don't have the market share to make diesel achieve widespread acceptance.
Actually your post has advertently or inadvertently hit on why (why we do so called "RANT" about carb, epa etc) there are no good oem WHENS, to why VW is experiencing delays.
Given the "tea leaves readings" it is pretty obvious major technology issues remain unsettled.
If I may be so bold as to suggest a redirection of the rants,
The Inside Line editors are much closer to the sources, yet their Future Vehicles section is sadly lacking and inadequate on upcoming diesel information. Every rumored hybrid, fuel cell, and/or hydrogen powered vehicle has an entry, yet the only diesels that are mentioned are the VW Jetta TDI and Tiquan, and the Hyundai Veracruz.
The VW info is inaccurate and way out of date. VW announced months ago that the Jetta is delayed, and have yet to confirm (and seem to be backing away from) that the US Tiquan will have diesel at all.
Diesels have been announced or are expected for the Honda Accord, Nissan Maxima, GM trucks, Cadillac CTS, BMW 3 series and X5, etc, but no mention there.
If you want diesel to be taken seriously for consumers who are entering their product research cycle for upcoming purchases, you might want to insist more that the people here that compile this data actually post it somewhere where it can easily be found, and to update the info as it changes.
Actually a good thought, BUT as you have obviously researched, almost NON existent.
This is one reason why I am so called "out there", so some one that cares to ask... can ask, if you want a (one) REAL WORLD take. If one doesn't hey, that is fine also. I have been ignored by a whole ..... bunch of folks. :shades: :lemon:
Put me in one of those (upcoming turbo diesel offerings ) and I can compare/contrast it with at least ONE TDI with + 100,000 miles of seat time. Most of those reviewers do not have near the time in ANY TDI, let alone, one with 100k miles..
I've read an Indian company (Mahindra) is bringing common rail diesel pick-ups and an SUV to the US in '09 that average 30 - 40mpgs. The best part is they will range between $20k and $30k. If the quality is reasonably good, it should see widespread acceptance.
www.gv-usa.com is the importing company's website. Check out their press/media section
Mahindra does not yet have a single vehicle certified for sale in the US. Crash testing and emissions standards in the US are the most stringent in the world. The manufacturers with experience with the second most stringent diesel emissions standards (the EU) like VW and Mercedes are having difficulty meeting the Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions standards. It is unlikely that any of the Mahindra vehicles have been engineered to meet US crash test standards and as such will require a complete structural redesign.
And yet you think that 1) Mahindra will quickly meet those standards, 2) Mahindra will quickly set up a nationwide network of dealers and parts distribution, and 3) that Mahindra will quickly gain a lot of customers.
I am far less optimistic about Mahindra's chances, particularly if they try to sell at the 20-30k price point.
I had just searched Subaru a tad (thinking it had a turbo) and was surprised to see their gasser engines are not terribly fuel efficient. I was thinking that without a major redesign of the engine( toward better fuel efficiency, for one), a good interim to longer term solution would be a (lower premium) turbo diesel.
When you factor in the standard AWD, it begins to add up.
Actually, though, the 06-07 Forester was the most fuel efficient AWD compact crossover, with an EPA rating of 23/30 mpg. Only hybrids and FWD models could beat that.
Also, CR tests a Legacy in the current issue, and it was the most fuel efficient car of the group tested, beating a FWD Accord 4 cylinder. The 177hp version of the 4 banger, too, not the 190hp one.
So in practice they're not bad.
Problem is, they struggle to meet the 27.5mpg CAFE standard, how on earth will they hit 35?
Diesels is how. Or hybrids. Maybe even both.
I'm disappointed in the rather large markup for a diesel, however.
I think we tend to agree on the "diesel" as one solution. And both of us would be dissappointed in the much higher diesel premium. My take here is they would expect the majority of folks who would buy a Subaru diesel would be current (gasser) Subaru owners. I say this in light of rumors that Subaru owners are almost in a "cult" like population. :shades:
While this might be a tad off topic (in context) : however I am confused a tad in that the EPA for the 2008 Legacy is 20/27. My Civic was EPA 29/38. So I could halfway go along with "not bad".
Well, prior to the 2008 EPA numbers dropping, that Legacy got 23/30, so those are the number to use when you compare to your Civic for that model year.
Also, the Legacy is a tad bigger than a Civic. It's not quite Accord sized, but the Civic competes with the smaller Impreza.
To improve its CAFE numbers, Subaru could bring a microcar, but would it do enough volume to have much impact? To me a diesel Forester makes more sense, or perhaps Outback.
Toyota owns a part of Subaru so they have access to HSD, but it would be quite a challenge to mate HSD to the already long, longitudinally laid out powertrain on a Subie.
I had the same skepticism, but if you read the Harvard article on that website, it says the Scorpio was created from the ground up to actually meet various US standards. Also, supposedly Mahindra is licensing the technology from the exact same company (Bosch) as MB uses for it's "BlueTec" diesels, so it might not be an issue.
You're right about not having nationwide distribution. I think to date Global Vehicles (the importer) has around 250 - 300 dealers set-up in major metrop areas. Should be enough to jumpstart it, though.
What I find attractive is the large SUV and 4 door 1/2ton that get 30 - 40mpgs for under $30k. That really interests me (and I assume many other Americans as well), and I hope they become available.
I didn't realize the diesel price included an auto trans.
It's hard to compare directly because they don't have identical models, the transmissions differ when you try, but it looks like the markup may end up a lot smaller than I thought.
Imagine a Forester that got 35 mpg or so, yet still had the torque to get the job done. All for far less than the Escape hybrid (which I believe is not rated to tow).
..."I didn't realize the diesel price included an auto trans.
It's hard to compare directly because they don't have identical models, the transmissions differ when you try, but it looks like the markup may end up a lot smaller than I thought. "...
These might seem like statements in passing, but I truly believe the archilles heel, are the transmission for the diesel. Like model gassers have way less torque. OEM's are almost loathed to "overbuild " a transmission product.
For sure that is one metric. However the other metric is what (I have no seat time in a Subaru, BUT (T) do so in) Honda has done SO well: make automatic transmissions that get near the fuel mileage that manuals get (1 epa (LESS) difference for example). Still for longevity purposes, it is much more than looking at the specifications and pronouncing the gasser auto go to go to handle diesel's increased torque. In addition, I would prefer the manual over the automatic, which is an archilles heel for Honda (again same SWAG for Subaru).
So for example in my Civic ownership I swag the auto transmission repair will appear far faster than the engine repairs (we chose the auto for one of us didnt want to shift). Again that is a SWAG.
As an overall comparison, the VW TDI 5 speed gives much better mpg than the automatic transmission. Again longer term, the clutch change will be app 700 dollars@ 300,000 to 400,000 miles vs an automatic transmission (when? no real clue) which can easily climb upwards from 2,000 dollars.
Natch it is the less than 3% MITIGATED passenger diesels fleets FAULT, that run 15 ppm to ZERO. ULSD to bio diesel
VS
333x to almost incalculable 5000 ppm on up bunker fuel oil and absolutely NO mitigation (by current law) is reason enough to ban passenger diesels. :sick: :mad:
Environmental science requires NO math nor causality? I suppose next, the CA environmentalists will require IOWA to take RFP's for port facilities!!??
You're right about not having nationwide distribution. I think to date Global Vehicles (the importer) has around 250 - 300 dealers set-up in major metrop areas. Should be enough to jumpstart it, though.
When I bought my Kubota diesel tractor about 5 years ago, Mahindra tractors were all but non existent. Now they are everywhere. Have not used one. They look good as does the Korean tractors and we know they are coming on strong in the automotive field.
Well, as usual the article shows just how hypocritical Californians can be.
Let us suppose that they forced the ships that come into their ports to use ULSD. No one or almost no one would come to the ports. Let us also suppose that all trains (locomotives) had to use ULSD or a bio-diesel blend. Again, the same problem.
In California, they want the money/income from port tariffs and fees, but yet cite outdated reports about how bad diesel PM is for you. What they have forgotten is how bad leaded fuel gasoline use to be and they fail to mention how bad all of those nasty hydrocarbons pouring out of the so called PZEV gassers happen to be. And of course, there is no such thing as a clean diesel. That is just a figment of someone's imagination.
To resolve the issue, I suggest they close the port of Los Angles and move the facility out of that toilet bowl to an area where the prevailing terrain and winds will keep the pollutants out to sea or move them elsewhere.
There is no "move them (polutants) elsewhere" when common elements are discussed like air and water. As for the ports and rails; they are predominately federally managed and controlled, not by California, or any other state. The cancer causing element in diesel, (mostly generating breast cancer in women), has been determined and is unaffected by any current "mitigation" of diesel exhaust whether from trains, planes, ships, or cars. Mosy of the news sites have a function that if activated will flag all news articles on a subject, such as diesel, and send them to you daily. There will be good news as well as bad.
Expect to see the diesel in the TSX. TSX is the Accord in Europe. Surprise is that diesel may be on sale at Acura dealers before Honda as the TSX may have diesel months before the Accord on sale date.
quote from NAIAS Toyota -Mr. Watanabe also said Toyota planned to offer diesel engines for its Tundra pickup truck and the Sequoia sport utility vehicle “in the near future,” but was not more specific.-end
Nissan is missing the Boat ,In 1984 , 85 nissan Sentra had a Diesel whic I owned one ,It had the power of a gas engine but ,one heck of a difference , between 45 and 60 miles per gallon.
Why such a difference in the winter in northern Pa additives had to be added to keep the fuel from jelling .this dropped the MPG.
Had the car for 13 years and put 160,000 on with it very little repairs. if the body would have lasted longer i'd still have it !
Actually there are plans to build a mega port in Baja to handle the New bigger Asian cargo ships. This is probably due to CARB trying to strong arm the shipping companies like they have the automakers. Then with the new NAFTA rules the Mexican trucks can come right across the border and head East to deliver the Chinese goods to Middle America. Leaving a trail of pollution as they cross CA.
Indeed if this is true, Honda has put the diesel into an Acura TL "entry level luxo vehicle" If one takes a look, the gasser price differences ( AcuraTL /Honda Accord EX) is north of 7.5k. Me thinks the diesel premium will start at +1k. My swag is Acura (Honda) will probably sell its WHOLE inventory of iDTEC's
quote- Fukui also said that Honda will introduce a clean diesel to its Acura line in 2010. It’s about time. With Honda getting into the diesel business, as well as Toyota, maybe diesel doubters will come to embrace clean diesel as a significant improvement over regular gas engines for big cars, SUVs and trucks.-end
Toyota will launch the Tundra pickup truck and the Sequoia minivan, which will be powered by a new diesel V8 engine, "in the near future," Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe said Sunday.
Sequoia is not mini and not a van.
V8 diesels will be available in the U.S. from Toyota.
Who knows. I may just do that. Hope the NAV gets updated to the 21st century by then. I would probably keep this one as a spare... Give the LS400 to family.
Small, light weight, relatively inexpensive, diesel passenger cars will literally bump up the passenger vehicle fleet to levels greater than 235.4 M. !! The "compact" segment might even grow from its minority position of 25% of the fleet. Again it remains to be seen how the regulators will deal with the "baked in-greater weight" Almost any sub 2500# approaching 1,500 to 1800# will be a hit! Of course, 62 plus MPG, 12 years ahead of the "woe is me" 35 mpg forward looking CAFE standards (44% BETTER) does not hurt one bit.
quote- Two decades after Americans abandoned diesels as smelly, loud and unreliable, German and Japanese automakers are placing bets that they can entice a new generation of drivers with clean diesel technology.
Japan's Honda Motor recently announced plans to introduce clean diesel under its luxury Accord brand next year, while Toyota Motor said Sunday it would bring diesel versions of its Tundra truck and Sequoia sports utility vehicle to the US "in the near future."
Germany's Daimler has reported strong diesel sales among buyers of its luxury Mercedes brand and is bringing three new diesel SUVs to the US market this year, while both BMW and Volkswagen will bring diesel cars to US showrooms this fall.
But while foreign automakers are trying to entice consumers to buy the performance and fuel economy of diesel, US automakers are shaking their heads.
"It's not something I see being a major factor in the US car market," GM chief executive officer Rick Wagoner told reporters on the sideline of the Detroit auto show.-end
Once again the Big 3 domestics are 10 years behind predicting the future and current markets. The same three companies that failed to invest in subcompact, compact (who in their right mind would actually want to buy a car when they can buy a fullsize SUV, fullsize truck or minivan) and midsize cars and suffer greatly for it are now "shaking their heads" at diesel. I could care less if GM, Ford, and Chysler all went bankrupt today!
They just "don't get it". I and many other buyers would prefer to buy an american produced vehicle made by an american owned company if only they would offer the same quality, performance, technology and value choices as the imports. Ironically, many of the "imports" are now assembled in the US.
Consider for a moment the history of diesel in the US and the fact that GM is the bad apple in the diesel barrel that spoiled the diesel market and it all starts to make sense. The wonderful 5.7L GM diesel of the late 70's and early 80's that spawned an entire industry to transplant gas engines into diesel cars. Thank you GM!
quote- "When Honda is committed to a diesel, now I know it's time for diesels," Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, said in a recent interview. -end
In light of the fact it is no secret the American automakers employ lobbists, and one would think keeps the upper management decision makers that pay them informed, some of this stuff is truly WEIRD. In light of the 2020 35 mpg CAFE standards, they have almost totally escalated the HP wars, losing of course: mpg!!??
In my 30 or so years in a business world, I have arrived at a conclusion that >99% of the damage done to any company is perpetrated by <1% of the people at the top. It all boils down to poor leadership, and everything else is just an excuse. This applies to the Big Three as well.
Will the deisel engines coming to Ford,Chevy and Dodge be the CRD? Have these been proven to be 30% more efficient? Will they be required to have the additive added to them? How much will the CRD add to the price? When can the public expect these to go on sale? Thanks and sorry for all the ????
Is/Are the use of CRD 30% more efficient? The technical answer is truly not sound bite able!?? So I would swag NOT. (and not even close). However the smart thing is to always gather the low hanging fruit (so to speak) once there is a given physical design.
Again there are not many like modeled passenger diesel on the market (for the public- per your reference)
So let me use the 2003 VW TDI (50 mpg) vs
2.0/1.8T(29 mpg)
(= 50-29 =21/50 = 42%)
This is of course SANS CRD. Would I like CRD? YES and ABSOLUTELY!!
One exciting thing VW has been able to accomplish (from a sound bite able point of view) was to keep mpg high and ADD 100# ft of torque WITH CRD (among other things, I feel folks eyes are starting to glaze over)
(i.e, go from 90hp/155#ft of torque to 110 hp/255# ft of torque)
As a comparison: 100# ft of torque (MORE/less) is HUGE!!
(this usually draws blank stares from uninformed gasser skeptics)
The Z06 started out at 385hp /385 # ft of torque. The latest Z06 Corvette has ONLY 85# ft more ( 505 hp /470 ft-lbs.) AND has LOST 2 mpg in the process!?
Yet as you probably know, the engine is WAY bigger and it has gone thru a NUMBER of designs and redesigns!!! Of course the price has risen 26,000 to handle only 85# ft of torque MORE!!
Conversely the 2006 VW TDI is also MORE BMW like vs earlier VW's and the cost is only 7,000 dollars more. Diesel premium remains sub 1k.
Comments
I'll be very surprised if this happens. If it does happen, I'm going to have to give the MINI some consideration for space in my garage.
BMW has announced that they're brining the 3 series and X5 to the US market in 09 with a diesel, so a Mini could be a possibility. Haven't heard that one myself, however.
I am hoping that there will be some word from the detroit show about which models will be available with diesel soon, and WHEN. VW's delay has been a bit depressing, and I'd like to see something affordable soon. MB and BMW don't have the market share to make diesel achieve widespread acceptance.
Given the "tea leaves readings" it is pretty obvious major technology issues remain unsettled.
The Inside Line editors are much closer to the sources, yet their Future Vehicles section is sadly lacking and inadequate on upcoming diesel information. Every rumored hybrid, fuel cell, and/or hydrogen powered vehicle has an entry, yet the only diesels that are mentioned are the VW Jetta TDI and Tiquan, and the Hyundai Veracruz.
The VW info is inaccurate and way out of date. VW announced months ago that the Jetta is delayed, and have yet to confirm (and seem to be backing away from) that the US Tiquan will have diesel at all.
Diesels have been announced or are expected for the Honda Accord, Nissan Maxima, GM trucks, Cadillac CTS, BMW 3 series and X5, etc, but no mention there.
If you want diesel to be taken seriously for consumers who are entering their product research cycle for upcoming purchases, you might want to insist more that the people here that compile this data actually post it somewhere where it can easily be found, and to update the info as it changes.
This is one reason why I am so called "out there", so some one that cares to ask... can ask, if you want a (one) REAL WORLD take. If one doesn't hey, that is fine also. I have been ignored by a whole ..... bunch of folks. :shades: :lemon:
Put me in one of those (upcoming turbo diesel offerings ) and I can compare/contrast it with at least ONE TDI with + 100,000 miles of seat time. Most of those reviewers do not have near the time in ANY TDI, let alone, one with 100k miles..
www.gv-usa.com is the importing company's website. Check out their press/media section
And yet you think that 1) Mahindra will quickly meet those standards, 2) Mahindra will quickly set up a nationwide network of dealers and parts distribution, and 3) that Mahindra will quickly gain a lot of customers.
I am far less optimistic about Mahindra's chances, particularly if they try to sell at the 20-30k price point.
Anyone know the exchange rates?
There appears to be about a 13,000 (or 5%) premium for the diesel engine, not bad.
http://www.subaru.se/hem_prislista_alla.aspx
Have a try at:
http://goeurope.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=goeurope&cdn=travel- &tm=51&f=00&su=p531.31.150.ip_p531.29.420.ip_p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=h- ttp%3A//www.xe.com/ucc/
Regards,
Jose
I tried a converter that I had but all they said was Finland had switched to Euros.
The 13,000 difference amounts to $3,235 US dollars. That's more than I was hoping for. I would take quite a while to recoup that.
Actually, though, the 06-07 Forester was the most fuel efficient AWD compact crossover, with an EPA rating of 23/30 mpg. Only hybrids and FWD models could beat that.
Also, CR tests a Legacy in the current issue, and it was the most fuel efficient car of the group tested, beating a FWD Accord 4 cylinder. The 177hp version of the 4 banger, too, not the 190hp one.
So in practice they're not bad.
Problem is, they struggle to meet the 27.5mpg CAFE standard, how on earth will they hit 35?
Diesels is how. Or hybrids. Maybe even both.
I'm disappointed in the rather large markup for a diesel, however.
While this might be a tad off topic (in context) : however I am confused a tad in that the EPA for the 2008 Legacy is 20/27. My Civic was EPA 29/38. So I could halfway go along with "not bad".
Also, the Legacy is a tad bigger than a Civic. It's not quite Accord sized, but the Civic competes with the smaller Impreza.
To improve its CAFE numbers, Subaru could bring a microcar, but would it do enough volume to have much impact? To me a diesel Forester makes more sense, or perhaps Outback.
Toyota owns a part of Subaru so they have access to HSD, but it would be quite a challenge to mate HSD to the already long, longitudinally laid out powertrain on a Subie.
Thanks for the FYI.
Again looking on Edmunds.com, the Impreza's EPA is 20/27 mpg.
Same year
Impreza Manual: 21 mpg / 28 mpg
Civic Automatic: : 29 mpg / 38 mpg
So the Forester fares well against the CR-V and RAV4, yet the Impreza's numbers are nearly as Imprezive (couldn't resist the pun).
You're right about not having nationwide distribution. I think to date Global Vehicles (the importer) has around 250 - 300 dealers set-up in major metrop areas. Should be enough to jumpstart it, though.
What I find attractive is the large SUV and 4 door 1/2ton that get 30 - 40mpgs for under $30k. That really interests me (and I assume many other Americans as well), and I hope they become available.
There hasn't been much or any for the past year.
I didn't realize the diesel price included an auto trans.
It's hard to compare directly because they don't have identical models, the transmissions differ when you try, but it looks like the markup may end up a lot smaller than I thought.
Imagine a Forester that got 35 mpg or so, yet still had the torque to get the job done. All for far less than the Escape hybrid (which I believe is not rated to tow).
It's hard to compare directly because they don't have identical models, the transmissions differ when you try, but it looks like the markup may end up a lot smaller than I thought. "...
These might seem like statements in passing, but I truly believe the archilles heel, are the transmission for the diesel. Like model gassers have way less torque. OEM's are almost loathed to "overbuild " a transmission product.
So for example in my Civic ownership I swag the auto transmission repair will appear far faster than the engine repairs (we chose the auto for one of us didnt want to shift). Again that is a SWAG.
As an overall comparison, the VW TDI 5 speed gives much better mpg than the automatic transmission. Again longer term, the clutch change will be app 700 dollars@ 300,000 to 400,000 miles vs an automatic transmission (when? no real clue) which can easily climb upwards from 2,000 dollars.
As usual, CA gives diesel cars a bad image.
VS
333x to almost incalculable 5000 ppm on up bunker fuel oil and absolutely NO mitigation (by current law) is reason enough to ban passenger diesels. :sick: :mad:
Environmental science requires NO math nor causality? I suppose next, the CA environmentalists will require IOWA to take RFP's for port facilities!!??
When I bought my Kubota diesel tractor about 5 years ago, Mahindra tractors were all but non existent. Now they are everywhere. Have not used one. They look good as does the Korean tractors and we know they are coming on strong in the automotive field.
Let us suppose that they forced the ships that come into their ports to use ULSD. No one or almost no one would come to the ports. Let us also suppose that all trains (locomotives) had to use ULSD or a bio-diesel blend. Again, the same problem.
In California, they want the money/income from port tariffs and fees, but yet cite outdated reports about how bad diesel PM is for you. What they have forgotten is how bad leaded fuel gasoline use to be and they fail to mention how bad all of those nasty hydrocarbons pouring out of the so called PZEV gassers happen to be. And of course, there is no such thing as a clean diesel. That is just a figment of someone's imagination.
To resolve the issue, I suggest they close the port of Los Angles and move the facility out of that toilet bowl to an area where the prevailing terrain and winds will keep the pollutants out to sea or move them elsewhere.
http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=732394
Surprise is that diesel may be on sale at Acura dealers before Honda as the TSX may have diesel months before the Accord on sale date.
More diesels coming.
Diesel whic I owned one ,It had the power of a gas engine
but ,one heck of a difference , between 45 and 60 miles per gallon.
Why such a difference in the winter in northern Pa additives had to
be added to keep the fuel from jelling .this dropped the MPG.
Had the car for 13 years and put 160,000 on with it very little repairs.
if the body would have lasted longer i'd still have it !
So the correction is app 2,330 difference,RATHER than the 7.5k that I stated.
quote-
Fukui also said that Honda will introduce a clean diesel to its Acura line in 2010. It’s about time. With Honda getting into the diesel business, as well as Toyota, maybe diesel doubters will come to embrace clean diesel as a significant improvement over regular gas engines for big cars, SUVs and trucks.-end
Sequoia is not mini and not a van.
V8 diesels will be available in the U.S. from Toyota.
Toyota to introduce diesel pickup, minivan in U.S. market
-- Launch clean-diesel V-8 versions of the Tundra pickup and Sequoia SUV within the next 24 months.
Make it one of the high-MPG super-clean diesel models please !!
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/07/volkswagens_pol.php
Interesting how "treehuggers" have highlighted what a lot of us knew all along.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116314
quote-
Two decades after Americans abandoned diesels as smelly, loud and unreliable, German and Japanese automakers are placing bets that they can entice a new generation of drivers with clean diesel technology.
Japan's Honda Motor recently announced plans to introduce clean diesel under its luxury Accord brand next year, while Toyota Motor said Sunday it would bring diesel versions of its Tundra truck and Sequoia sports utility vehicle to the US "in the near future."
Germany's Daimler has reported strong diesel sales among buyers of its luxury Mercedes brand and is bringing three new diesel SUVs to the US market this year, while both BMW and Volkswagen will bring diesel cars to US showrooms this fall.
But while foreign automakers are trying to entice consumers to buy the performance and fuel economy of diesel, US automakers are shaking their heads.
"It's not something I see being a major factor in the US car market," GM chief executive officer Rick Wagoner told reporters on the sideline of the Detroit auto show.-end
Once again the Big 3 domestics are 10 years behind predicting the future and current markets. The same three companies that failed to invest in subcompact, compact (who in their right mind would actually want to buy a car when they can buy a fullsize SUV, fullsize truck or minivan) and midsize cars and suffer greatly for it are now "shaking their heads" at diesel.
I could care less if GM, Ford, and Chysler all went bankrupt today!
They just "don't get it". I and many other buyers would prefer to buy an american produced vehicle made by an american owned company if only they would offer the same quality, performance, technology and value choices as the imports. Ironically, many of the "imports" are now assembled in the US.
Consider for a moment the history of diesel in the US and the fact that GM is the bad apple in the diesel barrel that spoiled the diesel market and it all starts to make sense. The wonderful 5.7L GM diesel of the late 70's and early 80's that spawned an entire industry to transplant gas engines into diesel cars. Thank you GM!
quote-
"When Honda is committed to a diesel, now I know it's time for diesels," Karl Brauer, editor in chief of Edmunds.com, said in a recent interview.
-end
I'll second that.
Is/Are the use of CRD 30% more efficient? The technical answer is truly not sound bite able!?? So I would swag NOT. (and not even close). However the smart thing is to always gather the low hanging fruit (so to speak) once there is a given physical design.
Again there are not many like modeled passenger diesel on the market (for the public- per your reference)
So let me use the 2003 VW TDI (50 mpg)
vs
2.0/1.8T(29 mpg)
(= 50-29 =21/50 = 42%)
This is of course SANS CRD. Would I like CRD? YES and ABSOLUTELY!!
One exciting thing VW has been able to accomplish (from a sound bite able point of view) was to keep mpg high and ADD 100# ft of torque WITH CRD (among other things, I feel folks eyes are starting to glaze over)
(i.e, go from 90hp/155#ft of torque to 110 hp/255# ft of torque)
As a comparison: 100# ft of torque (MORE/less) is HUGE!!
(this usually draws blank stares from uninformed gasser skeptics)
The Z06 started out at 385hp /385 # ft of torque. The latest Z06 Corvette has ONLY 85# ft more ( 505 hp /470 ft-lbs.) AND has LOST 2 mpg in the process!?
Yet as you probably know, the engine is WAY bigger and it has gone thru a NUMBER of designs and redesigns!!! Of course the price has risen 26,000 to handle only 85# ft of torque MORE!!
Conversely the 2006 VW TDI is also MORE BMW like vs earlier VW's and the cost is only 7,000 dollars more. Diesel premium remains sub 1k.