If it was indeed a base model, its Monroney (official) sticker should be saying no more than $14,XXX. And obviously they can't "pay" for it themselves more than the sticker, can they? Something doesn't add up. The simplest explanation is either it's not a base model, or the "official" paper was bogus (either different car, or simply doctored).
While you may need to pay full sticker on Fit (depending on the market), you should not let yourself being run into some totally false claims or official papers. It may not be as simple due to limited supply, but perhaps another dealership may be more truthful. Don't expect great off-sticker deals, as their over invoice markup is rather small, but don't let be scammed into some bogus claims, either.
He showed me the piece of paper he fetched and in it showed all the fees and the dealer invoice.
Any piece of paper you have is just as valid if not more than the one a dealer produces. You don't have to show them your numbers and if I were you I'd tell them I don't want to see your numbers. Just tell them your price and be ready to walk if not satisfied.
Now, if the Fit is being priced similarly at various dealers in your area, you will then know the market price for your area. If you're not willing to bite on this price either go outside your area or fall in love with something else.
Sorry, but this is the way the car biz operates.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Although the way that dealer handled things was entirely wrong, if a deal at your price (or close) was acceptable to him, he would have taken it. Remember TMV and other methods are not always accurate (sometimes higher, sometimes lower) and supply, geographical situations, etc. will effect what a dealer will do.
A word of caution for 'yoda05378'. Edmunds shows MSRP at the top of their "TMV Pricing Report" (page no.3) and the destination charge at the bottom, the two figures must be added for the actual MSRP.
The Monroney sticker on the car always includes the destination charge so don't fall for an additional adder (to the Monroney sticker) for "destination charge". This trick has been pulled more than once by unscrupulous dealers.
Again caution,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
The vehicle you looked at may have additional equipment listed on the MSRP that you may have not inputted when you did your configuration. I would match up your configuration to the window sticker. If the window sticker has a adendum next to it listing things the dealer added to the car I.E. spoiler, pinstripping, autobahn, moonroof, any of these things will reflect their price and you'll need to find one on the lot that matches you MSRP and then you'll know what the invoice is. It's not uncommon to ADM ( additional dealer mark up ) and that should be noted on adendum. Also are you being being quoted sales tax and registration fees at that price or were you working price only +T,T,L?
Wondering if this is the right forum! Hosts: I'll delete and repost to another forum if thats more appropriate. Let me know, please.
I have heard about this, too. Personally, I am in the market for an Acura MDX. Was talking to this guy from Auto-flex, a leasing company that also "facilitates" car sales. He quoted me $2500 off MSRP after a day, and then added,
"Since you are looking at the MDX, have you considered the Volvo XC-90? I can get one for you for $8,000 off invoice. Thats about $11K off MSRP. But, you will have to buy the car through me, the dealer will not give you this discount".
This threw me off (I admit, I have that greed element inside me, too). So I restarted considering the Volvo, priced one at $52,000, and thinking "Wow, I could get this for $41K", but hesitating from all the negative reviews I read on the Volvo forums on their customer service.
Then this Acura dealer calls earlier this week to check if I am still in the market. I had declined his earlier offer of $3000 off MSRP. After exchanging pleasantries, I told him "I am not going to pay more than $500 over invoice, and I want the steel blue color. I've been tracking your inventory, you had one, but I guess you've sold it last week. Can you get another one for me"?
After gathering where I got my numbers and all, he started shouting, "I will give you the deal for $500 over invoice but you have to come down right now and pick a car off the lot. I am not going to order a car for you at that price. This offer is valid only for today".
I was surprisingly calm, "My offer to you of $500 over invoice is valid for today only, too. You need to get me a Steel blue color 2007 MDX with Taupe leather and the Tech/Ent package and the options I want on it. I can wait for a few days while you get the car and install the options". Long story short, I thanked him for his time and told him no deal.
This is getting as ridiculous as buying airline tickets on priceline. But this time I am determined - to buy the car I want at the price I want to pay. Thanks for letting me rant. Now I have to think what to do with that Auto-flex/Volvo quote. Is the big discount worth it, considering the low reliability, high maintenance and poor customer service?
You may want to post this on stories from the frontlines. If your offer had made sense to the dealer he would have done the deal. Obviously, the offer of $500 over with the cost and trouble to do a dealer trade was not enough for the dealer top do it. If the broker has a better deal than you can get on the Volvo, I would wonder how. He is going to make $500-$1000 on the deal for himself. Look before you leap.
Then this Acura dealer calls earlier this week to check if I am still in the market...he started shouting, "I will give you the deal for $500 over invoice but you have to come down right now and pick a car off the lot. I am not going to order a car for you at that price. This offer is valid only for today.
It was the last week of the month and he was trying to push a unit perhaps for a total sales bonus, spiff, etc. I wouldn't be suprised to see that price was for that day only as it's a new month.
Yes, I think you are right. It was that end-of-month kinda deal. Wonder why he didn't want to get the blue color I wanted. If he agreed to the price, we'd have the deal. We had 2 more days to go for the month. Now I will wait till the end of June, but thats OK. I'll keep you guys posted. Regards, - MS.
I'm going to buy a 2008 Toyota Highlander and they're scheduled to be released in July. This will represent a major remodel for the HL and I'm guessing that there will be lots of folks deciding to wait for it rather than buying a 2007.
I assume that buying at the start of a new model year is about the worst thing you can do insofar as finding the lowest price. And I have some other questions about what to expect when buying at the start of the model year. Specifically:
1. Will I likely be able to place an order with the dealer prior to the actual new model release date? 2. Is the price likely to drop significantly if I wait a few months until the backlog goes down? 3. If my local dealers are all charging something over MSRP, would it make sense to try some dealers in other cities (I live in Sacramento but travel to LA and SF frequently)? 4. Do buying services (e.g., AAA, Costco, carsdirect.com) offer greater or lessor benefits at the start of the model year?
My husband and I own three vehicles, a 05 subaru legacy GT, 02 Toyota Tacoma, and 01 chevy cavalier which i use to drive to work. We hardly ever drive the subaru or tacoma since my husband [a deputy] has a patrol car he drives daily. We were thinking of trading the tacoma and the subaru in on a new Tundra double cab. I can't decide what is best to do keep what we have or trade. I still owe 20k on the subaru. the salesman said they'd pay it off and give us 15k for the truck, I need to figure out what's the best thing to do
Wonder why he didn't want to get the blue color I wanted. If he agreed to the price, we'd have the deal.
Because he'd have to trade for the color you wanted and the dealership would'be incurred greater costs, wouldn't get the holdback on the vehicle sold to you, and probably wouldn't have been able to book the sale by the last day of the month.
1. Will I likely be able to place an order with the dealer prior to the actual new model release date?
Yes
2. Is the price likely to drop significantly if I wait a few months until the backlog goes down?
Who knows. If they are selling everyone they can get, then no. If not, then yes.
3. If my local dealers are all charging something over MSRP, would it make sense to try some dealers in other cities (I live in Sacramento but travel to LA and SF frequently)?
Only if you could get a lower price. If their market is the same as yours, it wouldn't be worth it.
4. Do buying services (e.g., AAA, Costco, carsdirect.com) offer greater or lessor benefits at the start of the model year?
All the buying services negotiate prices with the dealers but they aren't always cheap prices. When I bought my Odyssey back in 2000, the approved AAA and BJ's Wholesale dealers were selling at MSRP with required options - the special deal was that they had them in stock.
So... I started looking for a used VW NBC, and now I think I can swing a new one. However, given the (self-imposed) restrictions I have placed on my budget, I can only afford a stripped down base model version that sells for close to invoice (under 22k).
I have visited my local VW dealer a couple of times. The first time was a couple of weeks ago; I had just finished some garden work and was actually on my way to the local HD to pick up some stuff when I stopped in to look at a couple of cars on the lot. There were a gaggle of guys on the doorstep, and they sent out what seemed to me to be a really green salesman (since I must have looked like heck). I explained that I wasn't buying anytime soon, that I was gathering info, etc. He gave me his card and asked me to let him know when I was ready to buy.
I stopped by again last Friday night, just to look at a new color car that they had recently had arrive, and the same salesman came out to chat with me (this time I was considerably more professionally dressed as I was coming home from work) Again, I let him know that I wasn't ready to buy yet - partly because it just wasn't "time" but also because they didn't have any colors that I wanted (red, green, or yellow) He told me that he could get any color I wanted, and I asked him if it would be an order or a dealer trade. He replied that it would be a dealer trade. I also told him that I hadn't test driven a car yet - and he was nice and encouraged me to do so as soon as possible. Later that night I brought my DH with me and test drove one of their Triple whites (ick) and the salesman asked me afterwards what my timeframe was.
I was completely honest with him - I told him that I wouldn't likely buy until after my July vacation; that if I were to buy, I'd want either green, yellow, or red; and that I was only prepared to pay for a model with no options, manual, and as close to invoice as possible. I followed up with "I'd like to pay as close to 20k as is possible (knowing invoice on a base is ~21500). I also let him know that although I can get my credit union to finance, I'd go through VW credit to help the deal (plus they have a good financing deal available) He has my card, and tells me to tell him when I am ready.
Meanwhile I am searching other local dealer's inventory to see what colors and added options are out there, and there is another dealer who has a yellow, practically base model, with an internet price I can do (21,9 - before TTL) and a complete base model in beige (ick) with an internet price of 21,6. I'd like to bring this into my salesguy and show him, just to let him know that this is the kind of deal I can get behind if he can make it happen, and if not I have other options (fine print says that 295 in dealer fees applies for the internet price - but I think I could haggle that).
Good strategy? Key is that I don't need the car, I just would like it, but only if it fits my (self-imposed) budget.
Showing him anything before you are prepared to buy is a complete waist of time and effort. If dealers are still discounting like that when you are ready to take delivery, then I would show it to him. Also,if you contact another dealer it may destroy your guy's trade opportunities. If we have a customer interested in a car, we will not trade it, especially if we suspect he is shopping other dealers for that car.
(fine print says that 295 in dealer fees applies for the internet price - but I think I could haggle that).
I bought twice starting out with internet pricing and neither purchase had a 'dealer fee for internet pricing'.
Seems like the BIG PRINT might be giving you a good deal but the LITTLE PRINT is negating a possible good deal.
Shop at dealers that don't play games. Your adventure only starts when you deal with guys that play games. Remember, they have a service department that you may need to do business with someday
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
A thing that bothers me is when you go to pay your car service bill and in addition to the posted price for the maintenance or repair, the shop charges you another 10% of that to cover soap and paper towels and floor wax and light bulbs and staples and ink and, and, and... I hate that! Every other business understands what overhead is and does not charge an extra fee for it. Dealerships and repair shops just assume customers are stupid I guess.
I would be sensitive enough not to contact any other dealer until this guy said "no we can't do it" - that much I know. Going to another dealer (in particular - the one advertising this deal) would be my last resort since my local dealer would be the most convenient option. And like I said - I've been totally upfront with the salesman about my timeframe for buying and all that. What I am trying to do is figure out how to get the best endgame for both of us... he gets the sale and I get my price.
My neighbors daughter just graduated from high school and wants a beetle convertible to go off to college with. He told me they shopped several weeks ago and the dealers were only giving a few hundred off of MSRP (summertime price increase) and most had a dealer fees of three to four hundred dollars on top. That combined with questionable reliability and they are now looking at Mustang convertibles.
excuse me, but both are IMHO VERY VERY poor choices for a girl going off to college. hit your neighbor upside the head and see the neighbor and daughter begin to "get it".
excuse me, but both are IMHO VERY VERY poor choices for a girl going off to college. hit your neighbor upside the head and see the neighbor and daughter begin to "get it".
I couldn't agree more...those are probably the last two cars I would want my daughter driving off to college in but hey, mechanics and tow truck drivers need to make a living too !!
Actually, I mentioned the Miata as an option but the base models are several thousand more than they are looking to spend. We'll see what happens....
It's usually written up as "shop supplies fee". The Toyota dealer where I take mine charges it, but they do send me flyers with some pretty hefty discounts on service.
Yeah but it is not 10%. That is just a stupid number. The shop I ran had a separate environmental charge to dispose of the oil filter for oil changes. It started out as 25 cents and then went to 35 cents later on.
We broke it out as a separate charge because we were not required by law to dispose of oil filters in any special way. State law said you could throw them in the dumpster after they drained for 24 hours, but we recycled them because it was the right thing to do.
Yeah it was only a few bucks, something like $2.50 I think, but my vehicles are all 2004 or newer and with low miles, so I have only had minor maintenance items done.
I guess it was either 10% of the parts charge or maybe it was 10% of the labor charges. I just looked at the bill and both were about equal, $110 each. The shop fee was $11.
I've only had a few services at the dealer where they charged the shop fee. I consider it a money grab. That's what the labor rate and parts profit are supposed to have a profit percent to pay for.
It is used like the extra fees added onto a purchase afteer the price is agree upon.
noa...sounds like you know exactly what you want....VW, color, stripped. You know what you're willing to pay.
The only thing left for you to do is to decide when you want to buy, then go shopping. If you're deal is doable a your price, there'll be a dealer who'll pull the trigger in short order.
Why not just raise your prices to cover that stuff?
I agree, but they're just using what the phone and cable companies do, advertise a reasonably low price but then add junk fees on top to get the price higher, it's an insult to ones intelligence.
A lot of that is government fees and taxes that vary from one area to another. So they cannot give what your total cost is as it will change depending on where you live.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It depends upon the manufacturer and the car - rebates and dealer cash will be used to move these cars. Only on a very high end car (i.e. expensive) would 10k even have a chance.
You might want to look at the message board "Prices Paid Buying Experiences" for the model you are looking at. Generally, you shouldn't pay more than invoice price (you can find this on Edmunds if you haven't already). Best of luck.
Even though the 2008's are trickling in we really don't worry about the prior year model till the middle of next year when the manufacture stops supporting them with incentives. When final pay starts getting close we get real motivated on them. But at that point the selection is so small that it really isn't that big of a deal.
I recently posted an on Craiglist for a used Lexus and was contacted by two seperate dealers who claim that they can get these cars $2-4K under what I may get from larger dealers because they get them from Manaheim Auction. There fee is approx $750 plus delivery charge of $250 for the purchased car
Can anyone share if
a) their past experience of dealing with such individuals/smaller dealers
b) can one trust their invoice (of their purchase at the auction)
Comments
While you may need to pay full sticker on Fit (depending on the market), you should not let yourself being run into some totally false claims or official papers. It may not be as simple due to limited supply, but perhaps another dealership may be more truthful. Don't expect great off-sticker deals, as their over invoice markup is rather small, but don't let be scammed into some bogus claims, either.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Any piece of paper you have is just as valid if not more than the one a dealer produces. You don't have to show them your numbers and if I were you I'd tell them I don't want to see your numbers. Just tell them your price and be ready to walk if not satisfied.
Now, if the Fit is being priced similarly at various dealers in your area, you will then know the market price for your area. If you're not willing to bite on this price either go outside your area or fall in love with something else.
Sorry, but this is the way the car biz operates.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
A word of caution for 'yoda05378'. Edmunds shows MSRP at the top of their "TMV Pricing Report" (page no.3) and the destination charge at the bottom, the two figures must be added for the actual MSRP.
The Monroney sticker on the car always includes the destination charge so don't fall for an additional adder (to the Monroney sticker) for "destination charge". This trick has been pulled more than once by unscrupulous dealers.
Again caution,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I have heard about this, too. Personally, I am in the market for an Acura MDX. Was talking to this guy from Auto-flex, a leasing company that also "facilitates" car sales. He quoted me $2500 off MSRP after a day, and then added,
"Since you are looking at the MDX, have you considered the Volvo XC-90? I can get one for you for $8,000 off invoice. Thats about $11K off MSRP. But, you will have to buy the car through me, the dealer will not give you this discount".
This threw me off (I admit, I have that greed element inside me, too). So I restarted considering the Volvo, priced one at $52,000, and thinking "Wow, I could get this for $41K", but hesitating from all the negative reviews I read on the Volvo forums on their customer service.
Then this Acura dealer calls earlier this week to check if I am still in the market. I had declined his earlier offer of $3000 off MSRP. After exchanging pleasantries, I told him "I am not going to pay more than $500 over invoice, and I want the steel blue color. I've been tracking your inventory, you had one, but I guess you've sold it last week. Can you get another one for me"?
After gathering where I got my numbers and all, he started shouting, "I will give you the deal for $500 over invoice but you have to come down right now and pick a car off the lot. I am not going to order a car for you at that price. This offer is valid only for today".
I was surprisingly calm, "My offer to you of $500 over invoice is valid for today only, too. You need to get me a Steel blue color 2007 MDX with Taupe leather and the Tech/Ent package and the options I want on it. I can wait for a few days while you get the car and install the options". Long story short, I thanked him for his time and told him no deal.
This is getting as ridiculous as buying airline tickets on priceline. But this time I am determined - to buy the car I want at the price I want to pay. Thanks for letting me rant.
Now I have to think what to do with that Auto-flex/Volvo quote. Is the big discount worth it, considering the low reliability, high maintenance and poor customer service?
Best regards, - MS.
I can't imagine any of them being sold for 500 over invoice.
It was the last week of the month and he was trying to push a unit perhaps for a total sales bonus, spiff, etc. I wouldn't be suprised to see that price was for that day only as it's a new month.
I assume that buying at the start of a new model year is about the worst thing you can do insofar as finding the lowest price. And I have some other questions about what to expect when buying at the start of the model year. Specifically:
1. Will I likely be able to place an order with the dealer prior to the actual new model release date?
2. Is the price likely to drop significantly if I wait a few months until the backlog goes down?
3. If my local dealers are all charging something over MSRP, would it make sense to try some dealers in other cities (I live in Sacramento but travel to LA and SF frequently)?
4. Do buying services (e.g., AAA, Costco, carsdirect.com)
offer greater or lessor benefits at the start of the model year?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Bob
If you have two vehicles that you rarely drive, can't see the point in buying another one..
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Because he'd have to trade for the color you wanted and the dealership would'be incurred greater costs, wouldn't get the holdback on the vehicle sold to you, and probably wouldn't have been able to book the sale by the last day of the month.
Yes
2. Is the price likely to drop significantly if I wait a few months until the backlog goes down?
Who knows. If they are selling everyone they can get, then no. If not, then yes.
3. If my local dealers are all charging something over MSRP, would it make sense to try some dealers in other cities (I live in Sacramento but travel to LA and SF frequently)?
Only if you could get a lower price. If their market is the same as yours, it wouldn't be worth it.
4. Do buying services (e.g., AAA, Costco, carsdirect.com)
offer greater or lessor benefits at the start of the model year?
All the buying services negotiate prices with the dealers but they aren't always cheap prices. When I bought my Odyssey back in 2000, the approved AAA and BJ's Wholesale dealers were selling at MSRP with required options - the special deal was that they had them in stock.
I have visited my local VW dealer a couple of times. The first time was a couple of weeks ago; I had just finished some garden work and was actually on my way to the local HD to pick up some stuff when I stopped in to look at a couple of cars on the lot. There were a gaggle of guys on the doorstep, and they sent out what seemed to me to be a really green salesman (since I must have looked like heck). I explained that I wasn't buying anytime soon, that I was gathering info, etc. He gave me his card and asked me to let him know when I was ready to buy.
I stopped by again last Friday night, just to look at a new color car that they had recently had arrive, and the same salesman came out to chat with me (this time I was considerably more professionally dressed as I was coming home from work) Again, I let him know that I wasn't ready to buy yet - partly because it just wasn't "time" but also because they didn't have any colors that I wanted (red, green, or yellow) He told me that he could get any color I wanted, and I asked him if it would be an order or a dealer trade. He replied that it would be a dealer trade. I also told him that I hadn't test driven a car yet - and he was nice and encouraged me to do so as soon as possible. Later that night I brought my DH with me and test drove one of their Triple whites (ick) and the salesman asked me afterwards what my timeframe was.
I was completely honest with him - I told him that I wouldn't likely buy until after my July vacation; that if I were to buy, I'd want either green, yellow, or red; and that I was only prepared to pay for a model with no options, manual, and as close to invoice as possible. I followed up with "I'd like to pay as close to 20k as is possible (knowing invoice on a base is ~21500). I also let him know that although I can get my credit union to finance, I'd go through VW credit to help the deal (plus they have a good financing deal available) He has my card, and tells me to tell him when I am ready.
Meanwhile I am searching other local dealer's inventory to see what colors and added options are out there, and there is another dealer who has a yellow, practically base model, with an internet price I can do (21,9 - before TTL) and a complete base model in beige (ick) with an internet price of 21,6. I'd like to bring this into my salesguy and show him, just to let him know that this is the kind of deal I can get behind if he can make it happen, and if not I have other options (fine print says that 295 in dealer fees applies for the internet price - but I think I could haggle that).
Good strategy? Key is that I don't need the car, I just would like it, but only if it fits my (self-imposed) budget.
I bought twice starting out with internet pricing and neither purchase had a 'dealer fee for internet pricing'.
Seems like the BIG PRINT might be giving you a good deal but the LITTLE PRINT is negating a possible good deal.
Shop at dealers that don't play games. Your adventure only starts when you deal with guys that play games. Remember, they have a service department that you may need to do business with someday
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I hate that!
Every other business understands what overhead is and does not charge an extra fee for it. Dealerships and repair shops just assume customers are stupid I guess.
If the yellow car is what you want and the price is what you want, then buy it and don't wait for July.
Dealers can promise you the moon and the stars, but if it's not sitting on their lot, it's not a deal, it's just chit-chat.
You're joking, right?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I couldn't agree more...those are probably the last two cars I would want my daughter driving off to college in but hey, mechanics and tow truck drivers need to make a living too !!
Actually, I mentioned the Miata as an option but the base models are several thousand more than they are looking to spend. We'll see what happens....
It's usually written up as "shop supplies fee". The Toyota dealer where I take mine charges it, but they do send me flyers with some pretty hefty discounts on service.
We broke it out as a separate charge because we were not required by law to dispose of oil filters in any special way. State law said you could throw them in the dumpster after they drained for 24 hours, but we recycled them because it was the right thing to do.
It is used like the extra fees added onto a purchase afteer the price is agree upon.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I guess that's why I havn't had any service done at a dealer since 1987. Why not just raise your prices to cover that stuff?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The only thing left for you to do is to decide when you want to buy, then go shopping. If you're deal is doable a your price, there'll be a dealer who'll pull the trigger in short order.
Just pick a day when you want to buy.
I agree, but they're just using what the phone and cable companies do, advertise a reasonably low price but then add junk fees on top to get the price higher, it's an insult to ones intelligence.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What happens to new 2007 vehicles that are not sold when the 2008's arrive?
When buying last years model - how much should you shoot for under MSRP? Is $10K less unreasonable?
Thanks!
You might want to look at the message board "Prices Paid Buying Experiences" for the model you are looking at. Generally, you shouldn't pay more than invoice price (you can find this on Edmunds if you haven't already). Best of luck.
Can anyone share if
a) their past experience of dealing with such individuals/smaller dealers
b) can one trust their invoice (of their purchase at the auction)
c) Any benefits/risks
Thanks