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Hyundai Azera 2006

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Comments

  • sundevilssundevils Posts: 100
    I have never (and I mean never) met a service manager that I can trust. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that service manager is at the top of my list of least trustworthy professions. There is no way that any service manager I have ever dealt with (and I've owned Ford, Honda, Nissan, and now Hyundai) would ever say anything but, "You need to change the oil every 3,000 miles. And by the way you need to flush your fuel injectors and your brake lines." Service managers are, on the whole, tremendously over-compensated and under-competent.

    When I brought up the oil change interval to my Hyundai service manager he said, "You need to change the oil every 3,000 miles, and I charge $30+ to do it." This is a bald-faced lie. Every car I have ever owned (and I lived a good part of my life in the Arizona desert) has done just fine with 7,500 mile intervals using conventional oil.
  • metalgatemetalgate Posts: 5
    The thing with the severe or normal conditions as far as oil changes go, it completely depends on where you live. Severe is considered any area where you have 3 or more months of rain or snow. Where you have constantly changing climates. Here in the midwest, it's every 3,000. However, in 7 years with Hyundai, I have never seen them deny a warranty claim if you at least follow one of the two. Actually, I have only seen Hyudani deny 2 claims, but both of those were kids who cut their springs on their Tiburons to make the "handle" better. Apparently they thought that even though Hyundai enlisted Porche to help with the supspension, their 18 years of life made them know more. :confuse:
  • hugobeckerhugobecker Posts: 45
    "Apparently they thought that even though Hyundai enlisted Porche to help with the supspension, their 18 years of life made them know more."

    As Oscar Wilde said, "In America, the young are always ready to give those who are older than themselves the full benefit of their inexperience" ; -)
  • floridabob1floridabob1 Posts: 1,190
    I can't believe that anyone would post that the fuel consumption on the Azera is good.
    I drive my car mostly in city and conservatively. I have accumulated aprox. 4000 miles since new.
    Computer indicates that consumption is about 16 mpg.
    In my estimation, that is very poor.
    My old Infiniti Q45 with big V8 averaged about 18 mpg. with same type of driving.
    Friends who drive Avalon are getting better than 20 mpg.
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    I agree with floridabob. Fuel economy sucks. I get avg 18 mpg.
  • jim101jim101 Posts: 252
    SOLUTION to MPG ISSUE, PROBLEM :sick:

    Immediately drive Azera to nearest Toyota dealer, trade for Prius :)

    Prius MPG will exceed your current 18 MPG ;)
  • oldblokeoldbloke Posts: 22
    My Azera has less than 1000 miles on the odometer. First long trip of 472 miles took 17.27 gallons with speeds mainly between 70-75 mph---27.3 mpg. The fuel consumption readout is not accurate, it indicated 25.7 mpg. The trip meter, based on the Interstate mile markers, reads 0.8% low.
    Is your mpg reading based on the computer readout or actual miles divided by gallons of gas between fillups?
    All fillups are not created equal, depend on fuel cut-off setting on the gas pump and if the car is on a slope. My data include three fillups, the first and last made on level ground.
  • mechanic80mechanic80 Posts: 122
    My computer read 19.9 mpg for the longest time, mostly city driving . No up or down as usual (.1 to .2 variation typical) so I reset it while I was on the throughway in town which clips along at about 65 MPH. It started out at 42.8 mpg! Granted, on a slight downgrade and a mild breeze at my back and it did continue downward, but it is fun to see those numbers for a short time. All joking aside, with 2400 miles on the odo, I'm getting 20.1 avg MPG with 40% highway and 60% city driving. no complaints here. I wish my Q45 had gotten 18 MPG. Even then, the premium fuel required was a deal breaker. I fill up up at the same station at the same pump and never top off the tank after shut off, and the mpg is paper and pencil calculation. My computer readout is dead on, as a rule.
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    Touche :blush: I have made some mp3 disks for the sound system and they sound great. 150+ tunes and 15 albums on one disk. Sweet!
  • azera25azera25 Posts: 45
  • azera25azera25 Posts: 45
    AutoPacific has awarded Hyundai with Ideal design award.

    http://www.theautochannel.com/new
    s/2006/06/14/011176.html
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Posts: 1,134
    "Every car I have ever owned (and I lived a good part of my life in the Arizona desert) has done just fine with 7,500 mile intervals using conventional oil."

    That's certainly an impressive endorsement, and I commend you. Where I live, it's currently 104 degrees outside and that's considered "severe service" territory according to my Sonata's owner manual. I generally keep my cars 7 - 9 years - sometimes more, so it behooves me to take a conservative approach for motor oil service. When I have occasionally trusted any matter to luck, it almost inevitably comes back to bite me on the you-know-where.
  • wamba2000wamba2000 Posts: 146
    Sundevils...hi from another Phoenix desert dweller. Just bought an Azera.
    I will use full synthetic Castrol or Mobil 1 as I have in other cars. Likely will use a 5000 mile change interval, due to the heat and will run 5W-20 to get best mileage, as I do in my Honda.
    I consider the slight extra cost worth it to improve long term engine prospects.
  • wamba2000wamba2000 Posts: 146
    One question for the Board:
    Has anyone attempted to change their own oil and a 2006 Azera? Looks like the filter is a throwback to the 1950's using a cartridge insert rather than a spin-on filter.
    If you've changed oil, can you tell me where the filter housing is placed and is it accessible? I see that NAPA has a Gold series oil filter available. Thanks in advance
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    Remove the engine cover (6 nuts-metric). The filter housing is top right and easily accessible. Use a filter wrench to loosen top. Wait 5 minutes or so to let oil drain from housing. Proceed with oil change. The pan plug also uses a compression washer.
  • wamba2000wamba2000 Posts: 146
    Thanks Chilliwack, the owners book has no reference to most service items, I guess they expect they will do all the work for owners.

    I will check it out.

    I also just ordered replacement bulbs from a PIAA dealer, as though the headlights are ok, I want more light on the road. Will report once installed.
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Posts: 1,134
    PIAA replacement bulbs will be brighter. They won't have as long a service life.
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    No problem. I accessed the on-line manual. At last visit, I still was able to see the graphics. i will post a link later.
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    http://www.hmaservice.com/authenticator/login?returnAddress=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hma- service.com%3A80%2Findex.jsp

    Register, log in and go to site requirements. Download appropriate plug-in(s) for graphics viewing. :D
  • abfischabfisch Posts: 591
    Prius is a piece of junk. All hype. Overpriced and the CVT cuts out after the warranty. Then you have the battery to replace in 8 years. Cost to own should be way more than the a normally aspirated car, including the Azera. Europeans have it down. 30% passenger cars are diesel. Car pooling would be a novel idea for some.

    abfisch
  • wamba2000wamba2000 Posts: 146
    Thanks, Chilliwack, went out and registered, appreciate the link.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,934
    Oh come on, don't hold back--tell us what you really think of the Prius!

    You are entitled to your opinion on the Prius being a piece of junk, but can you substantiate statements like the Prius' battery failing after 8 years (given that no one in the U.S. has owned one that long) and the CVT cutting out after the warranty (maybe in the Prius discussion so this one doesn't go off track)?
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    Oh come on, don't hold back--tell us what you really think of the Prius!

    He just thinks Prius owners are smug better than thou people who love the smell of their....Oh my, I have been watching way to much "South Park" :blush:

    Anyway back you your regually scheduled slugfest.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ray_h1ray_h1 Posts: 1,134
    I had been registered for over three years and then suddenly the graphics would no longer display. Your heads-up to install the site required plugins (SVG Viewer & Flash Player) solved the problem. Thanks, mucho !
  • mechanic80mechanic80 Posts: 122
    That's kid stuff....check out www.lanefx.com it's a blind spot elimination system....too cool for school! Install seems to be beyond most utrained personnel, (spoke with the manufacturer) but the cost of the unit is reasonable for what it can do for safety.
  • abfisch is close on his statement regarding the replacement of the battery or batteries on the Pirus and others of the same likeness, it has been reported that the average lifespan will be app. 8 years on the batteries and, get this, the repalcement cost is going to be app. $3000.00 for the batteries. The manufactures are playing down this little tidbit, I wonder why, Duh! How many people are going to want to put $3000.00 in an 8 year old vehicle, on top of the other maintenence it may require, there are a lot of owners out there that don`t realize this. Are they in for a big shock!!!!!
  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    image

    So . . . Just to clarify. You must take the Azera to a Hyundai Dealer for a regular oil change because they have not made the oil filter available.

    I went to a "Lube" place and they drained the oil and everything and then found out that the filter is "not available" and "cannot be ordered". So they refilled the oil WITH THE OLD FILTER and told me "sorry, you must take this to the dealer." (They didn't charge me.)

    Can oil filters be "picked up" at the parts department and then taken to a Lube place each time the oil needs changing.

    No, I don't change my own oil.
  • hugobeckerhugobecker Posts: 45
    Looks like Hyundai uses their in-house group, Mobis, to supply the ESC. A link to Mobis is here. Couldn't bring the thing up in Netscape - had to use IE (grrrrr ; -)
  • mbhollambholla Posts: 37
    Have been looking at aftermarket wheels for the Azera & have found quite a few that I like. I recently came across a website that has a great deal on the tire/wheel package that I am sold on. However I called up to order & the incompetence of the customer service rep who handled my call made me feel like an Ivy League scholar. I know nothing about positive+/negative- offset & bolt patterns. Funny enough neither did the person I was ordering wheels from.

    The bolt pattern of the Azera is 5/114 & the wheels I am looking at are 5/114.3
    My question to the wheel representative was "what is the ".3" of a difference on the pattern will they fit the car??" the answer was I’m not sure let me place you on hold for the next hour or until you get tired of being on hold & decide to hang up... which I did!

    So does anyone know if that ".3" difference in the bolt pattern is going to make any difference?
    I will get confirmation (from someone) before ordering of course. I just don’t feel like asking someone who knows less than I do about wheels.
  • ratledgeratledge Charleston county, South CarolinaPosts: 233
    The bolt pattern of the Azera is 5/114 & the wheels I am looking at are 5/114.3
    My question to the wheel representative was "what is the ".3" of a difference on the pattern will they fit the car??


    I'm no expert here, but I'm almost certain that number is the distance (in millimeters) from the center of the hub to the location of the center of the lug-nut holes. If that is correct, I'm guessing the 114 is just rounded to the closest millimeter and you're probably just fine, but I'm certain somebody here knows for sure!
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    Oil filter kits can be obtained at Hyundai parts counters. Costs range from $8-15 bucks. They are available through Gary Rome Hyundai via E-Bay as well. After market kits are becoming available.
    Personally I wouldn't trust spiffy-lubers to do this work. There are two gaskets involved and a compression ring for the oil plug at the pan. That may just be too much for these "technicians". If they did do this work, I would be bird-dogging them the whole time just to be sure these are actually installed.
    The job is an easy DIY, but I understand not wanting to.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Why don't they use regular oil filters? Seems rather stupid to complicate one's world with unnessary changes to the ordinary, and inexpensive. Why the new filters? Are all new Hyundais this way? What about the old 2.7 in the Tibi? It must have a normal filter.
    -Loren
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Posts: 1,134
    Purolator and WIX are now shipping their own aftrmarket cartridge filter inserts for these Hyundai applications. Pep Boys is getting ~$5.00 for the Purolators. As to why a cartridge filter instead of the familiar spin-on filters? Ecologically more benign. In addition to the new Hyundai Lambda V6 motors, Toyota, GM, BMW, & Mercedes-Benz have converted over to cartridge filters in some or all their engine lines, too. More (ultimately, probably all) will follow. At least Hyundai had the presence of mind to mount them where they're much easier to get to - up top and front. Remove the screw-on cap, lift the cartridge out with an old coffee can handy to slide under the cartridge to catch the drips and it's out. No fuss, no mess. Same for GM, M-B and BMW cartridge-type filterss. (The trouble with typical Gypie Boob personnel is these kids don't have the smarts to pour water out of a glass even with an arrow and the words, "This end down" pre-printed along the side...)
  • I'm taking delivery of a new Azera Limited on Monday and was wondering what programming options should I have the dealer install at that time? I know about the door lock/unlock options but are there others that would be beneficial?
    How about activating the 'limp-home' option?
    How about the can tool update for the 1-2 shift pause?

    Thanks for any ideas

    Mike
  • ratledgeratledge Charleston county, South CarolinaPosts: 233
    You need to have them program door lock for either "Put in gear" or "Reach 10mph"; unlock for "Put in Park" or "Key removed from ignition"; the "limp home" four-digit code; the automatic exit / "Easy Out" (moves steering wheel closest to dash) and upgrade the computer to include all the Tech Bulletin updates [which includes the WOT (Wide Open Throttle) shift from 1st into 2nd fix]. Hopefully, they will already have updated the computer for all the Tech Bulletins, but I would check if I were you!

    You also want to get them to agree to reprogram any of these features if you have to have service where the battery is disconnected, because the computer does not 'remember' them. (it does rememeber TB updates, but not your personal preferences)

    >Mike<
  • wamba2000wamba2000 Posts: 146
    Thanks for the note about dealer-set options. My wife really likes the auto-lock feature, will get that programmed.

    Question about the tires: I have the Limited with the 17" Michelin tires. The door plate said 30lbs. inflation pressure. Has anyone experimented with higher pressure (I'm running 32 now.) At 30 the tires look very low; if you run higher, has it impacted your ride?

    Also, curiously, my Azera does not have a manufacturer sticker on the door frame with the VIN #, engine, build date, etc. Am I just blind or is it located elsewhere? I looked at the places indicated in the owner manual, but can't see a sticker.

    Your help is appreciated, the Azera is a great car!
  • cruiser15cruiser15 Posts: 3
    I lowered my inflation pressure to 30 lbs. and it improved the ride as it was a little harsh over pumps at 32 lb.s.
  • chilliwackchilliwack Posts: 189
    Michelin P-235 tires say 44 psi max on sidewall. Why would you go off the car door sill info? 30 lbs is pretty low.
    What are other owners running as far as psi goes?
  • ratledgeratledge Charleston county, South CarolinaPosts: 233
    Well, that is true - but so do mine (Bridgestone Turanza EL42 P215 55HR17), but you still put 32psi in them for normal driving conditions. I think that (you probably looked at some place like TireRack like I did) is the max pressure.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Tires don't know what car they will appear on, and thus the highest recommend pressure is nothing more than to say never higher for safety sake. The car manufacture tests the car for handling, takes in to consideration the weight of the car, and I am sure considers the comfort zone and gas mileage. Yes, 30 seems low, but if that what is says on the door, then that is the recommended. I personally would try something like 32 frt/rear, and perhaps try a couple more pounds in front, like say 34 and see if it improved the handling, without being too light steering feel. For a smooth ride, say 32 or 30 / 30. But yes, if the manufactures recommend 30, then this is what they feel is optimal pressure for most driving conditions, and is normally the one to go with. When not just cruising, and pushing a car more on curvy roads, I always like to have a little more psi, especially up front. I do not own an Azera, so I have no way to play with the air pressures to see what feels right. But I bet some guys out there are doing so. Any new pressures working for your car?

    I have found that the tires lose pressure within a week or two, so I figure a pound lost anyway. Never have had any tire store, or oil change store get all four tires aired as they were told to do. So it is something which you have to do yourself, or you will have at least one, if not all tires to change pressure on.

    Note that adding or subtracting pressures is something lots of people do, there is a recommended pressure by each manufacturer, and thus the only officially recognized one to go by. Anything else is opinions - personal preferences and not a pressure recommended for you use. So if ya over or under inflate, you are on your own. And remember six pounds over or under, can be really dangerous. Think of it this way, tires heat up and go higher, and they also lose pressure in time, so please be careful to get it right.
    -Loren
  • jim101jim101 Posts: 252
    Opinions on this are easier to get then hens teeth. Each opinion is self satisfying to factory, manufacture, owner, dealer or other reasons, so please by all means do not take my views as being gospel.
    Thank you

    Manufacturers typically set the pressure requirements on the low side. This makes the ride a little softer and usually causes the tire to wear a little faster. The tire is also typically a softer durometer which adds to the wear factor. Factory tires may wear out around 25 to 30K miles. You may do better or worse dependant on your driving habits and tire maintenance. I typically get 60 to 70K miles from the original factory tires.

    Here are my thoughts and application.
    1. I check 'cold' tire pressure at least once a week and keep them within +/- 1/2 lb. I use 32 lbs as a benchmark.
    2. I remove and rotate the tires once a month. This gives me an opportunity to remove small stones and inspect the tires for wear and allows me to wash the tires and wheels inside and out along with the wheel wells.
    3. The tires tell me if inflation pressure is to high or to low. To high and the center wears faster, to low and the shoulders wear faster. Vehicle weight may vary due to stuff in trunk, number of passengers typically in vehicle or constant changing of weight. One passenger, then four passengers, then three passengers or the size of the passenger from tiny lady to football center. Centers are typically solid individuals, ran into a few some years ago. This information tells me if I need to increase to 33 or 34 lbs or reduce to 30 or 31 lbs.
    4. Tire wear will tell me about alignment. If not in alignment the tire may show more wear on one shoulder than another or scuffing of the rubber.
    5. Inspection may also find punctures or cuts that would go unnoticed.

    Dealers and other service facilities do not always check tire pressure because the tires are hot and inflation pressures may vary do to heat level of tires. Remember the heat level can vary from tire to tire for many reasons.

    There are many other applications and reasons for the tire pressure that works for you.

    Enjoy and safe driving to all.
  • I am kinda car enthusiast. The following information may answer your question.

    The tire pressure changes according to the tire temperature. The temperature goes up due to the increased ambient temperature, heat on hot roads, driving(rubbing against asphalt roads) and etc. There is a chemistry formula "P=nRT/V" T and V stand for Temp. and Vol., respectively. If you put more air into ur tire, n increases. Then, the rubber stretches so V increases a little in a non-linear manner. So, P is adjusted accordingly. If the ambient temp. goes up, also the rubber stratches and V increases a little. And P changes.

    Foget about the formula. Here in Texas, if you set the tire pressure to 30psi in the morning(summer), you will observe the tire pressure goes up to 33~34psi in the afternoon. In the cool weather, the tire pressure will down to 29~28.5 psi. If you have a professional tire gauge, you can try it.

    Anyhow, the 30psi tire pressure set in the morning will be different from the 30 psi setting in the afternoon.

    When you set your tire pressure, make sure check it before drinving in the morning when the road surface is cooled down and the ambient temperature is adequate(65~75F).

    According to the tire pressure, vehicle dynamics changes.
    For instance, the wheel alignment and the tire contact patch area change. So vehicle handling charateristics changes. So does the gas milage.

    If you use soft side wall tires, you may need a little bit higher tire pressure. The low profile tire has a harder side wall to imporove the handling. Your tire pressure are definately considered when the engineers tuned the damping and sping coeffs. in ur strut shock absorber and spring.

    There are more complex physics. Leave the all to the engineers. You can simply follow the manuf. recommendation.

    Good afternoon.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    Opinions on this are easier to get then hens teeth.

    :confuse:

    Me thinks you got your sayings mixed.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • wamba2000wamba2000 Posts: 146
    The 2006 Azera was reviewed on Marketwatch today. They mentioned that the Azera came in 3rd on JDPower's ranking of initial quality. Here is the link foir the review (not sure if you have to register to read the article or not.)

    http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B27FA38EE%2D2159%2D4820%- 2DA9E0%2DC411EDA2A98D%7D&siteid=mktw&dist=nwhpf
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Hyundai Azera: link title - received a "Acceptable"

    Article: link title

    Toyota Avalon and Chevrolet Impala received the highest ratings - a "Good"
  • jim101jim101 Posts: 252
    No, not really,

    You can get an opinion anywhere.

    Were you gonna get hens teeth???
  • acronisacronis Posts: 29
    Thanks for posting the link about the IIHS Azera crash test results. Acceptable is the minimum standard but this should be a wake-up call for Hyundai that if they are going to produce vehicles that are considered high quality they also need to exceed the safety standard as well.

    An overall Good should be Hyundai's goal. Anything less is quacking in the wind.
  • ray_h1ray_h1 Posts: 1,134
    are generally biased towards ride quality unless the vehicle is clearly intended for performance driving. I've always been told by tire store personnel over the years that for maximum tire life, safety, and fuel economy, "move" up from the owner's manual recommendation, but never above the maximum pressure molded on the tire's sidewall. My '03 Sonata lists a cold pressure of 30 lbs./sq. in. all the way around. ("Cold" pressure applies to a tire that's sat for three hours or more, or has been driven less than a mile from a cold start.) My tire sidewalls limit the cold pressure to 35 lbs./sq. in., max. and that's what I run. That cold pressure will obviously rise during use, but the sidewall limit takes that into account - do NOT reduce tire pressure after a desert run. While running 5 lbs./sq. in. over my Hyundai Sonata's recommendation was very noticeable initially, I've acclimated to it and enjoy the more precise steering response from the lessened sidewall flexing and superior traction from having the treads planted securely on the pavement across their width. An underinflated tire wears its tread shoulders much more quickly and runs much hotter at freeway speeds from sidewall flex; heat is always any tire's worst enemy. It's important to keep in mind that tires will not feel anywhere nearly as hot as they really are due to the thermal insulating properties of rubber. (As to the advisability of running toward the low end of the inflation pressure range, just ask Explorer drivers who ran Ford's absurdly low recommended 28 lbs. per sq. in. - at least the ones who survived their tires' tread separations and all-too-frequent vehicle rollovers.)
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 15,681
    The term is "scarcer than hens teeth". Since hens don't have teeth everything is easier to get then hens teeth.

    2008 Sebring Ragtop, 2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D

  • ricwhitericwhite Posts: 292
    image
    The only area I'm really disappointed with the Azera is crash test results.

    The front crash test results were confusing since the NHTSA gave it only "4 stars" after testing it. There was head and leg trauma involved.

    The IIHS gave it a "good" front crash rating, but NEVER tested it. They just took the data from Hyundai and translated it into a score.

    Personally, I feel the NHTSA is more accurate since they actually tested the vehicle.

    Now comes the "side impact" test. The IIHS actually tested the Azera and did not just rely upon data from Hyundai. Here the Azera scored an "Acceptable", not a "good." In fact it got a "poor" on the driver's pelvis/legs with a pelvis facture being "likely". This is very disappointing -- especially since both the Avalon and Impala scored "good".

    Also note that Hyundai made changes to the Azera in April/2006 and upgraded the structural components in the roof and side and made improvement in the side air bags. If your Azera was built BEFORE April, you will still have the old structures and airbag system and will have even WORSE results than were reported since they tested the "upgraded" vehicle.

    And why would Hyundai make changes to the Azera anyway. It's because they knew they had a HUGE problem with safety. They scrambled to make modifications before the IIHS safety tests and strengthened the roof and side and improved the air bags. Even then, it is not good.

    So, in my book the Azera gets a "4 Star" frontal crash rating and an "acceptable" side crash rating with side air bags.

    That is one of the poorest "new car" test results in years. In fact, the frontal crash test numbers from the NHTSA on the Azera indicated it was the WORST car in 2006 in its class. Hyundai should be ashamed of themselves -- especially after all of the hype of "world-class" safety.

    The Azera is a 10 in all areas in my book except for safety. Unfortunately it drops it's overall score to the 7's because of it. In fact, on Edmunds, I believe my score to be lowest given even though I LOVE the car. I just can't give a "9" or a "10" to a car that has the worst crash test data results of any car in its class.

    Sad.

    And, yes, I know a lot of you think the safety tests are "meaningless" and "worthless." We've been down that road before with the frontal crash test data discussions. I don't with to debate again how "meaningless" the crash tests are.

    Personally, I don't believe they are meaningless and expect a "world class" car to get nothing but a 5 star frontal and a "good" on side impact. Anything else, in my opinion, is unacceptable. Period.
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