Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - IV

cpousnr

What was that about blasting thru puddles of water at 50mph?

Perhaps an inch or so, maybe. . .

Tacoma measurments please?

cpousnr

here you go:http://www.t4x4pickup.com/dgroup/messages/2270.html

cpousnr

http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/toy_root/techtalk/engine/coolloss.htm

reddogs

my eyes are hurting from reading all these post, but spoog's....bad ranger trasnmissions.. on at leat the 4X4 is right on the money. He is having exactly the same symptoms/problems that the 4X4 owners down here are having, whether it's cause by the switch or in the tranny itself the point is the problem is in the DRIVETRAIN. If it vibrates, shakes, leaks, smells, gets stuck in the mud, looks like a "foo foo Rav4", those things are MINOR, the drivetrain is MAJOR. So get a grip on reality and lets debate the things that matter to a pickup owner like DOES IT RUN!!

Thank you for your time and attention....

hindsite

Spoog that was a great link regarding the transmission failure in the Ranger post. Darn I just saw all the transmission failures for the Ford Taurus. Guess I have to trade in my Taurus one of these days. Have to wait and see on that, but plan to limit my local driving.

You have been right all along about Ford, and I do applaud you for staying the course as long as you have against tirades from Ranger owners. Maybe the only time you can drive a Ranger through water is when it is frozen.

wsnoble

Vince

"I reside in Oregon.
WSN, I specifically remeber from past post someone
who OWNS a Tacoma saying in the owners manual and
on the door jam is says NOT to engage the locker
above 5mph??? I have read this in other chat rooms
also around the internet. I will head down to the
Toyota dealer in the next few days and look
myself."

You have me confused with somebody else. I have never talked about the locker on this board

Spoog

Not sure what your post to me was about?

Ranger and the SOHC V6

I was just stating what i read on http://pickuptruck.com They said it will only come on that model line (The Edge) and it will be Auto only. I'm not doubting the auto.com link just posting what i read.

well i'm off to reading the bazillion posts, posted since friday...

-wsn

wsnoble

Hindsite

Excellent links. I'm sitting here going through the rest of them and i am finding great comfort in the fact that i bought a Tacoma.

98 w/20k Trouble Free Miles
-wsn

smcpherr

This is a few posts ago, but Spoog, yes the supercharger does increase engine wear. The Charger increases the pressure within the chamber, that is how it works, stuff more air in the chamber so you can add more fuel for a more powerful powerstroke. But the size of the chamber doesn't change, so the pressure increases dramatically. So does temperature, which is why it helps to add an intercooler, or to use higher-octane fuel, so more boost can be applied without creating engine knock. The higher pressure and temperature inside the engine will undoubtedly increase the engine wear, decreasing the engine life. Thats a fact.

Hit a rock with a hammer and the rock will eventually break. Hit the same rock with a sledgehammer and the rock will break faster. Same principle.

spoog

lol! Your one link has a complaint about VALVE chatter at 80,000 miles! hahahahahahahahahahhah!
You must be joking!


And for your second link.....YOU DID BOTHER TO READ WHAT KIND OF TRUCK THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT????

A 1984 22re with 150,000 miles! 1984!! lol!


Sigh......Is this the best you can do Cspounser? Is ripping on 1984 vehicles with over 150,ooo miles with coolant loss the best you have to offer?


Sigh.........

cpousnr

So the height of the intake on your TRD would be? That was the question.

So you blast thru water with no damage but that 84 with a 22R engine blew? Am I seeing a picture here.

I THINK with the post regarding the Ranger, I would BET that the kid tried to plow thru deeper water and brought it up over the grill/hood and right into the air intake. That is dumb. I do not buy the account because I have been in Medano Creek going over it SLOWLEY with water to the bumper. No problems at all.

Hmmm.

First, any engine that sucks in water is in for trouble. The basic Ranger intake is slightly above the right headlight. More than likely lower than a Tacoma, but not by much.


Second, the caution on the Ranger is MAINLY to not allow water to soak and stay in the HUBS AND to not allow water to flow into the vents on the differentials/xfercase. That on all 4 wheel drives could cause problems.

Tonight I will check the cautions on the 94 Toy my son owns. I will get back to everyone as that should be a general caution for all Toyotas.

scape2

Ouch, Hope you TINODA boys don't get hit or better yet hit a tree. Take a look at this site and compare the RAnger to the Tacoma in crash test data! LOL. www.crashtest.com
I don't think any truck would have cleared that rock pile, not even a Toyota TAcoma. This guy was stupid. The wheelbase was way too long to attempt anything like that.
And, wsn, what about the 5mph limit??? on that locker? A locker doesn't help haul, tow. The locker must be engaged also. And what about that open axle when the locker is not engaged? One tire traction, gotta love it!!
I have been asking spoog for pictures of his so called TRD SC for months and months. He doesn't own this truck. Remember, this is the same guy who likes to go OVER objects and use his GROUND CLEARANCE rather than using his tire to climb over the object in the path, yeah right spoog, you 4x4, LOL.
See you in the hills.

spoog

Well guys, the day has come. Look at you scramble, look at you REACHING AND GRASPING for anything to throw into the mix. You seem so desperate, like a fool holding on to a twig on a cliff. It's sad really, to see this come to an end. But your desperation is entirely obvious. You have been beaten, and beaten again concerning the issues. It is sad really. The only thing you have going for you is the side crash data, thats it. PErhaps if you just stuck to value and safety, you could have st=ood your ground. INstead you chose the ignorant route of trying to compete with the Tacomas offroad prowess , reliability, and performance. BIG MISTAKE guys.

Ever hear the story of the fox with the cheese in his mouth? The one who looked in the water and saw two pieces of cheese...dropping his to get the other, only to have none?

Well, that is the sad story of Vince and cspounser. Instead of taking what they could get, they tried for the whole enchilada and ended up looking like fools with no argument left at all.


Good one.

scottssss

will you go measure how high your air intake is off the ground for us and let us know how high it is?

thanx in advance

scottssss

wow, the Tacoma isnt THAT bad but the Pre Tacoma Trucks look like they were death traps.

Great link Vince.

y2ktrd

The air intake is located above the right inner
fender well on the tacoma's.(inside the fender)

cthompson21

A forced induction system (either superchargers or turbos) WILL reduce engine life.

Here's a little example:

Audi actually reduced the displacement of their 2.8L V6 to 2.7L when they added a turbo. It was due to thicker cylinder liners to handle the added stress of forced induction. They also added forged connecting rods and a whole number of other items. Pardon my tech terms if they're off slightly.

Anyone who believes that forced induction will have no effect on engine longevity and reliability is a fool. This is especially so for engines that weren't designed to handle the stresses of forced induction in the first place.

Here's a great link on forced induction (it's ford but applicable to all makes):

http://www.rangerpowersports.com/tech/forced_induction/

Check out the menu to the right. There's a whole list of recommended upgrades to better help your engine handle the stresses of a supercharger or turbo.

barlitz

What do you all think of the sport trac I've been reading a lot of good things about them and would maybe consider one.I also like the idea of the 4.0 sohc ranger finally,I also read somewhere SVT may try and build a supercharged ranger.

hindsite

How many Rangers of this period leaked? All the fluids.

http://adams.patriot.net/~bjustice/ford.html

hindsite

How many Rangers of this period leaked? All the fluids.

http://adams.patriot.net/~bjustice/ford.html

hindsite

Hit or miss I guess.


http://plescia.org/_airbags/00000093.htm

hindsite

Transmission link

http://good-morning.com/wwwboard/messages/125.html

hindsite

Transmission link

http://good-morning.com/wwwboard/messages/125.html

hindsite

See it one day and the next day it is gone.

www.carcast.com/cc/conference/messages/1426.html

cpousnr

Hey, thank you for the post, but what is the height?
Ranger with 31X10.5X15" tires is 36-38 inches. I understand am and getting more information that there are ways to remove the air intake pipe and place the MAF and aftermarket filter on the top of the engine, an increase of about 5-6 inches. More on that later.

Well, from the 1994 Toyota P/U manual, Pg101:
"Avoid sharp turns or abrupt maneuvers if at all possible."
"Do not drive horizontally across steep slopes. Driving straight up and straight down is preferred." Your vehicle or any similar off-road vehicle can tip over sideways much more easily. . ."
Page 114:
Always observe the following precautions to minimize the risk of serious personal injury or damage to the vehicle."
NOTICE:
"If driving through water such as when crossing shallow streams, first check the depth of the water and the bottom of the river bed for firmness. Drive slowly and avoid deep water. Take all necessary safety measures to ensure that damage to the engine or other components does not occur. Water entering the engine air intake will cause severe engine damage."
"Always perform a maintenance inspection after each day of off-road driving that has taken you through sand, mud or water."

"...shallow streams..."

cpousnr

explaining how to four wheel drive in the Ranger.
Page 13:

Water
"Before driving in water determine the depth. Avoid water higher than the bottom of the wheel hubs. Proceed slowly to avoid splashing. If the ignition system gets wet the vehicle might stall."
"Once through the water try the brakes. Wet brakes do not stop the vehicle as effectively as dry brakes."

There is also a caution on driving across a hill rather than up and down.

Key words are "...AVOID... higher than hubs..."

cthompson21

A buddy of mine from work just got a Sport Trac. He paid waaaaaay too much for it. Somewhere around 28K, and it's not even 4wd (it does have every other feature, though). I think he actually paid sticker. I'd wait until the initial gotta have it demand dies down, and the dealers are more reasonable. It was nice. The backseats could easily hold adults, and the bed seemed useable. Throw a hard tonneau on it, and it makes for an extremely versatile "trunk" especially with a bed-extender. It has a power rear window too, which I liked.

Here's a link with some of the details about the possible SVT Ranger a.k.a. Ranger Adrenalin:

http://www.blueovalnews.com/ranger_adrenalin.htm

I've heard of a possible supercharged SOHC 4.0L V6 producing around 300hp and 300ft/lbs of torque. I just hope they make a 4x4 version of it. :oD

wsnoble

"And, wsn, what about the 5mph limit??? on that
locker? A locker doesn't help haul, tow. The
locker must be engaged also. And what about that
open axle when the locker is not engaged? One tire traction, gotta love it!!"

Again i ask what the hell are you talking about? You started this locker/LSD conversation with me out of the clear blue. Are you schizophrenic or something. Scroll back and redirect...

But since you bring it up. The locker can go over 5 mph. You just have to be under 5mph to engage it. Also why do you need to go much faster than 5mph with the locker? Do you plan on jumping a truck over some rocks or something?

Also since your beating the side impact issue to death again, tell me where at carcrash.com, do they tell me if my "TACOMA PU 96-00" is 2 or 4wd?

-wsn

spoog

http://adams.patriot.net/~bjustice/ford.html





Look at this little blurb from one of your links:



"Brian's 1994 Oil-leaking Ford Ranger

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I own a 1994 Ford Ranger I purchased new back in October 1994. It took from the Fall of 1995 to the Fall of 1996 to get this repaired. Besides Ford's inability to repair this in a timely fashion, I have found Ford's customer service, in my opinion, to be pathetic. I have talked to service technicians, service advisors, service managers, general managers, dealership owners, Ford Zone managers, Ford's Customer Assistance Center, and Ford's Dispute Settlement Board, none of whom have taken any serious effort to resolve this problem. This page is then here to let anyone know what a pathetic job Ford has done in standing behind my vehicle. Be warned, I would not recommend purchasing any Ford vehicle, esp a Ranger.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My story
Information
Invoices from visits to dealers
Letter from Dispute Settlement Board
Links to other Ford-related information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

spoog

http://members.stratos.net/killerklown/Ford/ServHist.html



1992 Ford
Ranger STX 4x4
Service History



Condition Fix
Transmission oil leak (363 mi.) Back up light switch leaked, RTV used to seal it, warranty
Tachometer stopped at ~2500RPM Tachometer replaced, warranty
Driveshaft, out of balance (17 kmi.) Replaced, warranty, had TSB
Volt meter pegged (28 kmi.) Replaced, warranty
Thermostat, stuck open (28 kmi.) Replaced, warranty
Alternator, intermittent lack of charging (30 kmi.) Replaced alternator, warranty (3 trips to dealer)
Exhaust rattle Cat. Conv. heat shield, used two hose clamps mounted in series
Door latch cable froze, door wouldn't latch (6 kmi.) Replaced, recall (froze Sunday, notification in newspaper Monday, recall letter arrived Tuesday J)
Power lock motor quit Replaced, boot damaged during work on cable for recall allowing corrosion of the motor's internals
Plastic step plate, cracked (7 kmi.) Replaced, warranty, probably screws over tightened
Hood, rust from inside of leading edge (~80 kmi.) Replaced under rust-through warranty after contacting dealer, letter to dealer, letter to Ford, and finally, letter to state Attorney General
Engine cooling fan, cracked hub Replaced, used a fabricated two pronged fork (cut from ¼" steel plate) and thin head wrench, work according to service manual, fan #F3TZ8600C
Transmission oil leak Replaced three shift rail plugs, removed rear crossmember dropped rear of trans for access, used RTV also
Engine oil leak, rocker arm covers Replaced as per service manual, used cork gaskets from NAPA & sealer
Air conditioning quit (~50 kmi.) Will replace O-rings and convert to 134a or other non-Freon12 refrigerant
Hubs attempting to lock (~36 kmi.) Disassembled hubs, cleaned, & lightly greased (Mobil 1) all the components
Cracked arm rest support 1st time replaced, warranty; 2nd time reinforced with stainless sheet metal (reinforced one available, F37Z10047A20D)
Fractured interior trim above side window (both sides) Fabricated sheet metal (stainless steel) strap, fastened over trim piece using original screw hole
Shifter handle came off regularly (~90 kmi.) Tapped hole in end of shift lever, drilled through handle under the cover, fastened with socket head screw
Front end rattle (87 kmi.) Replace outer U-joints as per service manual
Hub attempting to lock (108 kmi.) Replace outer axle bearings
4 wheel drive slow to engage Clean terminals in connector on the back of the transfer case
Front end shimmy while driving (108 kmi.) Replace lower ball joints, used socket & 2"IDx3.5"L pipe to remove in vise & 2"IDx1"L to install
Hub would unlock partially upon disengagement of the transfer case (109.9 kmi.) Replaced autolocking hubs with Warn manual locking hubs (29071) with Spicer bearing retainer nut kit (21588XK)
Radiator leak between core & plastic tank (190.9 kmi.) Replace radiator

Top of Page

spoog

http://www.autosafety.org/fordweb/SYNOPSIS1.html

spoog

http://www.t4x4pickup.com/events/mnteagle.htm

spoog

http://www.ihs2000.com/~peel/cas-doc.htm


defective Ford paint?

cpousnr

Better yet, what is the height of your air intake?

Again spoog AVOIDS the question and fires off BS posts that refer to Dodges, Chryslers, Escorts, Explroers, Mustangs and sometimes a Ranger, but ties ONLY the Ranger to large recalls.

So lets talk about the head gasket issue on Toyota, the FACT that the beds rust out on the older Toyotas and maybe even the newer ones.

Focus and talk about the RANGER, ok?

Do you loose focus this easily at work spoog?

By the way, the 5R55E is a FIVE SPEED automatic. What is the Toyota tranny that is equal to that?

Sporin

Am I the only one who just scrolls down through spoog's posts?


zzzzzzzz....zzzz(snore)...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

hindsite

Here is a link directed at the Ford Ranger.

Technical Bulletins for the 4wd 4.0 Ranger in 1999.

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/20/982023C3.html

hindsite

Spoog I have to applaud you again for giving us those great links and to enlighten those that may
choose to buy a Ford product. I could not believe the endless pages of web sites that I found in my ten minute searches each day for the past few days of owners disenfranchise with Ford. I left out many sites about the Ranger, but if that is an affirmation of the quality, then I have to wonder if Fords are built tough.

hindsite

It would be lesser of me to leave out Wsnoble in all that he has done to promote fairness and
sanity to a sometimes insane topic. Thanks for those positive comments. I am aiming to please Vince of those labels he so pinned on me.

Fact is all those links show a constant cause and effect. The cause is A Ford doe’s not build a
good truck that is reliable. The effect is there are numerous web sites from disgruntled owners. Be
happy and buy Toyota or Nissan.

hindsite

This is a link for the 2wd Ford Ranger recalls and repair information from 1983 to 1998. Only one
year there was no mention of any recalls or repair information. That year was 1984 and the only
year since then that is favorable to the Ford Ranger.


http://www.alldata.com/consumer/repair/make/Ford_Truck/Ranger_2WD.html

hindsite

A sad story, but someone has to pay for negligence and the suffering that Ford has caused

http://members.tripod.com/NYFOP957/lawsuit.htm

hindsite

From 1983 to 1998 there is a list of all recalls & repair information for each of those years.
Though they do not show it here at this link there are recalls for the model year 1999.


http://www.alldata.com/consumer/repair/make/Ford_Truck/Ranger_4WD.html

hindsite

It pinged in 96 and pings today.

http://www.fourwheeler.com/boards/tech/engine/messages/137.html

cpousnr

http://www1.mhv.net/~guido/toyota/mail.html

mmcbride1

Read the text of the article. It says it is a 1992 4Runner. Those had the 3.0 V6, not the 3.4. The 3.4 came around in 1996 with the body change.

smcpherr

"The cause is Ford does not build a good truck that is reliable."

What are you talking about? Ford builds very good, high quality vehicles. So does every other vehicle manufacturer these days. In todays economy, vehicle manufacturers would not be able to survive making defective vehicles on brand loyalty alone. And as long as I mention brand loyalty, people who buy Japanese vehicles are not above brand loyalty, heck most of the people I know who drive imports would never consider domestic vehicles. Not because they are better, but because they are feircly brand loyal.

I have always felt that any quality advantage the imports have over the domestics lies within the people who buy them, not the quality of the vehicle itself. In my opinion, the domestic vehicles are lower priced than the imports, so generally, one would expect to find a higher percentage of import vehicles being driven by upper-middle-class and above people than by middle class and below people. In my experiences, this is true. Also, in my opinion, people with more money tend to take better care of their vehicles, regardless of whether the care is being done in the backyard or Jiffy Lube. In my experience, this is also true. Everyone knows that a better maintained vehicle will last longer than a vehicle not as well maintained, so if A=B and B=C then A=C, people with more money will tend to buy imports, take better care of their vehicles, and their vehicles will last a long time. The end result is that imported vehicles have a better record of lasting longer that is easily associated with a vehicle make, but in reality is nothing more than a product of socioeconomics.

mmcbride1

After that rant, tell us how much money you have and how you could have bought anything you wanted.

scape2

38 posts in less than 24hours!! This site is incredible.
And I notice how fast the Toyota owners wanted to sweep the crash data under the carpet. Well here it is again for those who missed it.
www.crashtest.com. And, take a look at the date the data was updated.
Spoog doesn't own this Tacoma, he has proven this over and over again. He won't post pictures, won't give air intake measurements, knows nothing about the 5mph limit on the locker, neither does WSN. Heck, neither of them seem to know when or how to use a locker. The Axle is OPEN when the locker is not engaged.
Enjoy the Sticker!
And hind, and spoog rattle off sites of Ford vehicles dated back to the early 90's that aren't even Rangers. Its funny though how Ford continues to make record profits, and still outsell the Tacoma almost 4 to 1 after 13 years.
Don't get hit in them Tinodas boys! Tough truck, LOL!
See you in the hills.

mviglianco1

"Enter a selectively locking rear dif, the best of both worlds, such as on your (TRD, I presume) so equipped truck. Toyota tells you not to use it unless you are stuck because not being used to one you can do some REAL ballerina style pirhouettes with your truck, but you do get more traction off the line if you need it. Thus, even though the button is there it only works in 4wd lo. Using it at high speed is okay but again, for safety reasons, Toyota doesn't want you to. Hard core drag racers on this bulletin have modified it to work even in 2wd hi but if you have an auto it locks it out of overdrive and regardless it will disable the ABS (bad thing in a tail light truck!!!), just like it would if you turned it on in 4lo while rock crawling. It all boils down to a harder to break loose drivetrain, but being screwed once it is, or a lower traction but more forgiving one."

I am not making this stuff up about the locker not not disenguaging above 5mph. I could post 50 references saying the same as above. I will enjoy my sticker and locker, thank you.

scottssss

one of them at least from '92.. Refers to the tranny of a bronco II

A article on a lawsuit ONLY published on a Tripod account.. really good source there... i wonder if the people killed in side impact collisions in a tacoma could sue?

and the tacoma won a 4x4 review run by a Toyota site ... not at all biased

and the 3.4 L engine in the 4 runner page CP linked IS the SAME engine in the TACOMA.

spoogs post of over 100 lines that only had one line about 2.3 L ranger engines released in 84-89

how about some links about a current ranger..
hey how about some pics of mid 80's toyota trucks..

oh and the airbag post.. tacomas are notorious for not releasing thier airbags .. if you want a link ask spoog he knows it by heart, its the NHSTA site. and i believe it is for the 98 tacoma i found over ten problems with tacoma airbags not deploying.

AND another link about 1984 -91 ford vehicles in general. cmon this a RANGER VS TACOMA room not late eighties ford vs Tacoma.

Does anybody remember MSN's reliability ratings about both trucks.. vince it was your link i dont remember it.. Toyota had its own problems.


ok and the post about brand loyalty.. it was right on Ford ppl buy FORD, GM ppl buy GM, Import ppl buy imports. that is the way it is. Point in case: My good freinds bought a Saturn a couple years ago, they Are import PPL, when i told them it was a GM product they imediatly went out and sold it, EVEN tho it never had a single Problem. They didnt want to own an american made car.
brand loyalty all the way. H**l this room is just more proof of brand loyalty. And the toyota people here are just as guilty of it as us ford ppl.

sorry if i offended anyone.. just my observations

spoog

From a transmission EXPERT:

http://www.thegrid.net/thedrivetrainpage/whtobuy.htm




Built "Ford Tough" I DON"T THINK SO!

"Section 2: Small Pickups, Minivans, and Sport
Utility Vehicles
Unfortunately, for my country, the "best", in
terms of transmission reliability goes to the
Toyota pickup, fourrunner, and minivan (Although
the Cienna has not been out long, it is based on
the Camry, which has proven to be quite a reliable
drivetrain). Again, the Toyotas seem to go, often
in excess of 150,000 miles, without automatic
transmission failure. In addition, when considering
a sport utility vehicle, the Honda Passport can be
a wise choice.

If I had to choose an American minitruck, or sport
utility, or minivan, I would choose GM. The
S10/S15 trucks and blazers, and the Astro Van, come
with the 4L60E transmission, which is not designed
for towing, but is adequate for what these trucks
are designed for. These transmissions can be
expected to last to around the 100k mile mark, if
not used severely.

Ford's AeroStar Van, Ranger pickup, and Bronco II,
hold up reasonably well, with many of their
transmissions failing at, or around the 80,000 mile
mark.

Chrysler's minivan line uses the same transmission
as the Chrysler cars... My mother always taught me
that "If you can't say something nice, don't say
anything at all...", so I will not say anything
about these vehicles. The "mid-sized" Dodge Dakota
comes with the 500, or 518 transmission, which has
more than it's share of problems, with failures
often seen, in our shop, at, or around 60,000
miles.

Summary
It is my opinion that, in terms of automatic
transmission reliability, the Toyota minitruck and
fourrunner line is the way to go, with the Honda
Passport also being a good choice. Again, as in the
"car section", I would avoid the more obscure
vehicles, like Izusu, Mazda, Nissan, etc. because,
although they seem to have a better reliability
record than the U.S. made minitrucks, minivans, and
sport utility vehicles, they suffer from a low
resale value, as compared to the Toyotas, and
Hondas."





THere it is!!!!


Oh, and SMCHPEER....you are dellusional if you thin there is not a quality difference between certain vehicle makes.


Well gang, looks like THE transmission expert knows what he is talking about? Need more proof that the Tacoma wins this debate? Come on.......


ask for it!





YYYYYYYYYeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhawwwwwwwww!


Enjoy!

scottssss

Now how high is your air intake??

or just like you dont take pictures of machines you dont measure them also??