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Karl's Daily Log Book
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Is that a correct take on the market, Karl?
And what is the word on why "armoured car" apperance is so important in this segment?
Unless there's a technological breakthrough I'd recommend a hybrid only to people who lease automobiles. The resale on a 4 or 5 y/o hybrid would be very poor I assume.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
We've got one coming in late April so we'll have a Follow-Up test by early May. But unless they fix the heavy, slow steering and overly wallowy suspension, I don't expect to like it anymore than the '04 model.
My first impression of this car was that the styling left me cold. And my second, third and 10th impressions after today didn't change that opinion. It's tough for me to put my finger on, but there's something about the roofline and overall proportions that don't work for me. I know it's the biggest Ferrari ever made, and I know that was done in an attempt to create a true four passenger vehicle, so maybe Ferraris just can't be big and still look good.
As for its four passenger capability, it's like many 2-door cars these days (including the Mini Cooper). Head room and hip/shoulder room are fine, but if the front passengers are more than 5 and 1/2 feet tall, legroom is not realistic for an adult in the back seat.
In terms of performance, the car feels as quick as a 540 horsepower Ferrari V12 should, though low rpm torque still isn't as strong as I'd like (the Bentley Continental GT is better, but of course it has two turbochargers). The F1 tranny continues to improve over every Ferrari I've driven over the past 12 months. First the 360 Stradale, then the 575, then the F430, and now the 612 (actually, the F430's and 612's trannys are about the same, meaning both are very good). Steering is lighter than the F430 or 575, but considering this car's mission that's fine. It's still on my personal "Top 10 Best Steering Cars of All Time" list, and that includes the other Ferraris, the 911, Boxster and BMW 3 Series (except for the year when BMW screwed it up). It's certainly better than the DB9's, which is too heavy, and even better than the Continental GT's, but not by much. Combined with the car's responsive handling it felt much lighter than two tons.
The most interesting part of this Ferrari was the level of luxury amenities. Ferrari generally skimps on the luxury stuff, even in their GT cars, as their buyers are expected to tell themselves, "Yeah, no power head rests, but it's a Ferrari!" Well, this one has power headrests, power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, reverse sensing, and automatic headlights with adjustable sensitivity for ambient light. But there was no navigation system on my test car, and it still had that horrid Becker head unit with too many tiny buttons (though sound quality was superb).
The story (and video) should be up in the next week or so.
Happy April Everyone. My online log book is officially into its second month. I will have a toast of champagne with my wife tonight.
The GTO is a niche product -- even more niche than GM wants it to be if sales numbers are an indication.
I have visited a Volvo dealership to take a look to the V50 that is one of the candidate to replace my S80 in a couple of years.
According to the sales person who has helped us with the test drive he sells many more 2.5T XC90 than V8, with the ratio 3-4 to 1.
I was pleased that a common sense in our demographic niche is prevailing.
It would be interesting if Volvomax can confirm or challenge this observation based on his experience.
BTW, V50 T5 with a sport package is real fun to drive, but by economical and other reasons we will opt for 2.4i "standard", which appears as very solid performers/value package. And most likely we will go Overseas.
Yes...and no. Yeah, with 400hp it's the performance bargain of the year. Yeah, the interior is one of the best GM makes in this price range. But, unfortunately, it still pretty much looks like a Grand Prix from Hertz. And people paying $35 large for a sports car tend to want something with a bit more style. Hence the lack of sales.
I would be interested in seeing a unique comparison test (using your standard comparison test metrics and reviews) that compares a couple of current mid-level family sedans against similar and luxury cars of the past 20 years or so.
I was thinking something like a 2005 Honda Accord EX 4 cylander and 2005 Chevy Malibu LT against something like a 1995 Honda Accord, a 1990 Nissan Maxima, a 1988 Acura Legend, a 1992 Buick Century, a 1990 Cadillac DeVille, a 1998 Toyota Camry, etc.
The reason for this kind of comparo is to see how the 'flaws' in today's new cars (which is what everyone seems to focus on) compare to some of the better remembered cars of the recent past.
Obviously, it would take some time and effort to acquire nice examples of the older cars, but I think the effort would be worth it. I think a test like this could generate some neat buzz for Edmunds.
Damon
Oh, sorry that's the Scaglietti that left you cold. Never mind............
Midsize Wagons
Mazda 6 wagon
Dodge Magnum
Ford Freestlye
Volkswagen Passat
Subaru Legacy
Chrysler Pacifica
Luxury Wagons
Jaguar X type
Mercedes C Class
BMW 3 series
Audi A4 Avant
Volvo V50
Now on to the REALLY interesting cars I tested:
RX 400h
Highlander Hybrid
Liberty Diesel
We're doing a round-up story on these three cars (it can't be a true comparison test because they don't truly compete with each other). The story should be live in about two weeks, but let me say that both the RX 400h and Highlander Hybrid are fantastic vehicles. Why? Because I'd drive them even if they weren't hybrids. The fact that they are fast (0-60 in 7 seconds flat for the Highlander) and get better mileage than almost any other SUV is pure gravy. The RX is slightly slower because it's heavier, but it handles better in the slalom because of a faster steering ratio and better suspension.
The Jeep Liberty Diesel...
Did I mention how much I like the Highlander and RX 400h?
Sorry. I know as Americans we are all stupid for not recognizing the brillance of diesel power, but in this application I wasn't impressed. Put simply, it was loud and it was slow. I know diesels can be better (the V10 in the Touareg, the Cummings Turbo Diesel in the Ram), but I can't see a large number of people going for this version of the Jeep. Add in the ever-growing question about pollution controls and it doesn't look good for diesel.
I can say one thing for a fact: if you drive these three cars back-to-back, you'll definitely have an opinion on which drivetrain is the drivetrain of the future...
The M3, capable though it most certainly is, is more of the same from the same ole....hybrids being relatively new, are more technically interesting. More fun to drive? Of course not. More interesting? You betcha.
Midsize Sport Sedans
Nissan Maxima
Mazdaspeed 6
Pontiac Grand Prix
Dodge Charger
Subaru Legacy
Acura TSX
Entry Level Luxury Sedans
BMW 3 Series
Audi A4
Mercedes C Class
Acura TL
Lincoln Zephyr
Cadillac CTS
Lexus ES300
Jaguar X Type
Volvo S40
Infinti G35
Sounds like an exciting....yawn....read.
Seriously, the GTO is not that exciting. Bigger engine, bigger brakes, bigger steering pump...got it....now lets move on. Oh, and don't forget to pour some bleach down for the gratuitous burn-out picture. yay!
Any idea when/if you'll be getting a spin in the new Audi A3 sportback?
I'm interested in hearing more about the new 2.0 turbo with direct injection. And maybe even more about the DSG tranny (direct shift gearbox?)
Memo to GM: Maybe an annual pass should be included with the GTO to let its owner take it to the nearest racetrack for drifting fulfillment?
Such a car would obviously have big brakes to match its speed, which means more battery regeneration!
It'd be a car that when driven softly or by the EPA, would get mileage in the 30s or better. Redline it though, and you would get single-digit mileage and ridiculous performance.
Basically I'm thinking of the Mitsubishi Evo FQ 400, which gets 400hp from a 2.0L engine. In one review, it kept up with a Lamborghini Murcielago around a small track and took the turns faster. But then they put it next to some Fiat compact car, both in 6th gear at 30mph, and under open throttle the Fiat slowly pulled away. That's how bad its lag is, and my theoretical car would be worse. (Technical question: does the low compression ratio of a turbo'd engine, when the turbo's not spinning, reduce or increase fuel consumption?)
If they brought it in with all the "ribs and wings" of the pre-Lutz Pontiac style - people would complain that it looks tacky.
When they brought it in clean and understated, people complain that it isn't flashy and exciting enough....
They didn't have time to do a total re-skin of the Holden Monaro.
I did NOT spend $35k for my GTO, only about $30k. GM is only importing 18k a year max, so it's limited sales/production to begin with. The lack of sales is good for me, at least unlike a Mustang, camry or Accord I won't see them a dime a dozen all over the road every 5 seconds. Many people at traffic lights or driving around or even in my driveway have come up to me to ask me about my GTO... So much for NOT having enough style...
To get an equivalent car to the GTO you would have to spend nearly TWICE The $$ at other brands. in fact One of the Automagazines compared the GTO to a car TWICE it's price and they said the GTO was the winner.
The Charger isn't out yet so we'd have to wait a little longer for that one.
Two entry-level luxury tests were done back in 2002
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=74497
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=73569
and between these two we covered most of the models you mention, though there has been plenty of activity in that segment in terms of upgrades/redesigns. We'll have to hit it again soon.
Thanks
I'm hoping we'll get a test vehicle in the next two months.
GM did the same thing with the Escalade. On my way into work today in I saw one of the first year 'Slades and was reminded of how GM rushed to get a luxury SUV to market, even if it was just a re-badged Suburban with minimal visual differentiation. The next year all of the full-sized SUVs were redesigned, and the Escalade drove, rode and looked much better (and more distinctive).
I think the same thing happened with the GTO. GM saw the Mustang coming, they kept hearing from the Camaro/Firebird guys who wanted a rear-drive V8 coupe, and Lutz saw the Holden as a relatively quick/cheap fix. I think of it like I think of that first year Escalade. It's a good idea, but the lack of full-fledged, original design and implementation is painfully clear, to me at least.
Anyway, I had the engine replaced recently with a modified version, taking horsepower from the stock 65 to a current 120. Neither number is huge, but with only 1,800 lbs to drag around they both get the job done (the 120hp noticeably more so!). Every now-and-then it's good to experience pre-1980 automotive technology, even if just to get a perspective on how good we all have it today, but also to remember what we've lost. Non-power steering and brakes do have their charms...
No one out there is probably considering this car on their current shopping list, so I'll keep the comments to a minimum: small, low, loud, nimble. The ultimate expression of that famous quote, "It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow." And, thankfully, with the new engine it isn't even that slow. I can now beat rental cars and minivans at least, and once the road goes twisty I'm gone.
You can see a picture of it here (the top photo) from an editorial column when I first bought it:
http://www.edmunds.com/news/column/carmudgeon/47476/article.html
Lexus ES330
Mercedes-Benz C320
Volvo S60 2.5T (Volvo doesn't sell an S60 with a V6, right?)
Jaguar X-Type 3.0
Saab 9-3 Arc
What do you think?
I guess my main reason for not driving the TL is because the local dealer here has a reputation for being very "mean" (service department AND sales) I've heard a few stories about the place and none of them are positive.
Here's what I want for the comparison test
Lexus ES330
Mercedes C350
BMW 330i
Jaguar X-Type 3.0
Saab 9-3 Arc (I had almost forgotten this car existed)
Lincoln Zephyr
Volvo S40 instead of Volvo S60
Acura TL
Audi A4
I had included the Cadillac CTS and Infiniti G35 in my earlier message, but they were used in this comparison test. Maybe later edmunds could do a comparison test using only the sporty cars in this test. I was thinking of the BMW 330i, Acura TL, Audi A4, and the new Lexus IS250, and maybe a Cadillac CTS or an Infiniti G35 thrown in there.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=73569/pageId=29721
Edmunds could do seperate tests like they did before... The S40 AND S60 could both be included... The S60 is only marginally larger and more expensive.
One test could be for the sportier ones (BMW 330i, Lexus IS250, Volvo S40 T5, Infiniti G35, etc) and one could be for the less sportier ones (Lexus ES330, Mercedes-Benz C240/C350, Jaguar X-Type, Saab 9-3 Arc, etc.)
I wonder if Edmunds could borrow a CPO Infiniti I35 from a dealership or something and test it out. I'm very interested in how the I35 stacks up against the C-Class, X-Type and 9-3. (I've driven the I35 and the ES330 and preferred the I35)
by the way, all these edmunds forums are great, yours included. for my next car i'm deciding between a GTO, C6 vette, or Benz CDI. i'm an ex-camaro guy, having owned 5 Z28s over 20 years or so, and establishing the internet's "f-body mailing list" which is now www.f-body.org. my wife and i drive an 2004 xc90 when we've got 3 or more kids on board and a volvo v70 when there are merely 1 or 2 kids on board. i commute in a jetta TDI wagon, and do sometimes drive with a child or two in the jetta. a near-encounter with a wrong-way driver is making me rethink whether i want to travel in the jetta with kids on board - i think it's not massive&safe enough for a 'worst case' collision with a wrong-way SUV, for example. so i may soon vow to drive my kids only in big volvos or benzes. i took particular note of your preference to have your family in an xc90 - maybe i'll buy a second one. when we got the xc90 i was afraid to drive it due to suv-rollover-phobia. after volvo driver training at lime rock, i'm convinced that it is impossible to roll over an xc90 if one keeps it on pavement.
for an ex-camaro-owner bald-dad such as myself i probably don' t have to explain why i'm considering GTO or C6 for myself. i suppose i wish i hadn't traded my final (Y2K) 6-speed Z28 last year, but its lack of 'refinement' was finally beginning to annoy me, particularly my aging spine.
the bland styling of the GTO is a big draw for me - a reason i'd opt for GTO instead of C6. the GTO back seat is a draw too - it would be crucial for me occasionally. btw, i'm amused by all the youngsters in the GTO forum who take it personally that edmunds hasn't re-reviewed the GTO for 2005. conspiracy!
the cars i'm considering are probably too different for a 'comparo' but if you or anyone here has any comments for me, i'd be interested. one other aspect to my vehicular plans is that i may replace the jetta TDI with passat TDI. or if volvo ever sells a diesel V70 in USA, i'd buy one in a heartbeat, replacing both the 2003 jetta TDI and 2001 volvo V70 2.4T with one volvo "D70".
Currently my wife is driving my 1970 Plymouth GTX as her primary family car. We sold the Mini Cooper in January and I'm still waiting for the right moment to get her a late-model Odyssey (certified model from 2002-2004). Normally I wouldn't put her in the GTX, but it runs great and she typically drives less than one mile between school, grocery store and various errands. While not as safe as an XC90 (still my first choice if money was no object) it should hold up well if an SUV decides to tangle with her. Who knows, I might look into a certified XC as well when the time comes.
The diesel thing is cool if you get a good one. I drove the Liberty version recently and was not impressed. Except for not smelling, it still suffered from many of the bad things diesels are known for (loud, unrefined, lack of low-speed acceleration, etc.). I do like the Mercedes and Volkswagen diesels. I would love to see more European makers offer them, as they seem the foremost experts.
Thanks for reading!