"I would document every tank on a spreadsheet. If this drop in mileage is directly a result of the software upgrade you have a legitimate complaint. keep us posted."
With the hybrid winter performance hit, we won't really know until warmer weather.
"Doesn't every car have a hit on mileage in the winter?"
Ironically enough, my 2003 CR-V EX AWD gets 1-2 MPG better in the winter. However, I think that is because of the Southern California "Winter Blend" gas. The summer blend is very poor for MPG.
Got a ride with a colleague of mine today. I used to own his 2004 Prius and used to get about 44 mpg on a 12 minute commute. 5 horrible minutes to start with (getting the engine warmed up) and then 7 minutes of great mileage added up to an average of 44 mpg. I usually lost about 2 mpg on really hot days (airco running harder) and lost 2 mpg on really cold days (engine running longer after start-up to get to temperature). I averaged about 43 mpg on highway driving at 70-80 mph with the airco running.
Why I sold it is a long story that had nothing to do with my happiness with the Prius (my only issue with the car was the lack of a seat height adjustment). My colleague has a slightly longer commute (30 minutes) and usually gets 54 mpg. He had the software upgrade done this week and was really happy! His mileage went from 54 mpg to around 60 mpg, admittedly on a Prius friendly series of errands. His impression was that the car cycles the battery a bit deeper, i.e. gets more effective battery capacity. Anybody else with an increase in mileage following the upgrade?
J
P.S.: Our different figures on the same car in the same city (Houston) just confirm that the way you drive and the type / length of commute really influence your mileage. Same happens with normal cars and none of them get EPA mileage under my commuting conditions. So I think 44 mpg was excellent!
There are plenty of other cars out there that have had more software updates than the prius. Unfortunately since the prius is the media darling now, it is in the spotlight. Do a search on the mini cooper and see how many ECU updates it has had.
Hybrids not feasible? Explain how I can get 50MPG in a sub 27k car with the same features in some high end vehicles.
I just had the update done last week with and oil change. My mileage stayed the same with similar type driving. Mild winter here, so not using the heat.
I dutifully took my 2004 Prius in for recall service in late October. My mileage plummeted by at least 10 to 12 miles per gallon. I don't keep tank by tank records, but my husband has a 2003 Prius, and I had always gotten at least 4 to 5 miles more per gallon than he did, even as each of our averages ebbed and flowed with the seasons in northeastern Ohio. Since the recall "fix," my averages have been decidedly below his, by roughly 5 to 6 gallons. The dealer has offered to run a free diagnostic. Does anyone have any specific suggestions as any particular focus that I should request when I take it back for these further diagnostic efforts? Thanks for any suggestions.
My 2005 Prius seems to run the gasoline engine a lot more than necessary. When I called the dealer, I was told that no adjustments are possible. For example, when I first turn the car on, the gas engine will startup immediately or within a minute or two even though I have not touched the accelerator pedal and the battery charge is reported as almost fully charged (one bar below the top). The gas engine also comes on when I am driving below 20 mph and barely pressing on the pedal. Is all this "normal"? Is there anything I can do about it?
There is a kit available that allows the car to be driven in EV mode (electric only) below 34 mph and still use moderate 'pedal.' Electric only range is very limited and this 'mode' is not always available due to battery charge state and temperature. Depending on hills, EV only range can be as little as 1/2 mile, though range on essentially flat roads can be two miles or more.
I had the reprogramming done and mileage has dropped 5-6 mpg. I've had the car since 12/04 so I've gone thru a winter. It used to avg 45 in the burbs and 49 mighway. Now it gets 39/44. I'm taking it in tomorrow for a diagnostic. I'll let you know the results.
I would like to mention a new problem I've encountered with my 2004 Prius. The new issue I encountered around 61,000 miles is a center console failure. It begin with my radio cutting-out, followed by a loss of GPS with an error "system unavailable", then my A/C controls went off with an error "check the connection", finally the unit and steering wheel function buttons became unresponsive. The center console often times states "check the system" while other time just a blank screen or a frozen Hybrid Synergy startup screen. I noticed the brakes grind when pressed under this center console failure, and it sounds like the gasoline engine runs harder than normal. The problem continues to come and go, often a reboot of the car will fix the problem for a short period of time.
So I went to a dealer in Ohio, they said the problem wasn't covered under my Prius 100,000 mile warranty. I don't think they know what the problem is, but just want to replace the center console. So I sent the Prius back to my original dealer in Pennsylvania to check out the problem. Prius owners bewary of the 61,000 mile mark!
I would like to mention a new problem I've encountered with my 2004 Prius. The new issue I encountered around 61,000 miles is a center console failure. It begin with my radio cutting-out, followed by a loss of GPS with an error "system unavailable", then my A/C controls went off with an error "check the connection", finally the unit and steering wheel function buttons became unresponsive. The center console often times states "check the system" while other time just a blank screen or a frozen Hybrid Synergy startup screen. I noticed the brakes grind when pressed under this center console failure, and it sounds like the gasoline engine runs harder than normal. The problem continues to come and go, often a reboot of the car will fix the problem for a short period of time.
So I went to a dealer in Ohio, they said the problem wasn't covered under my Prius 100,000 mile warranty. I don't think they know what the problem is, but just want to replace the center console. So I sent the Prius back to my original dealer in Pennsylvania to check out the problem. Prius owners bewary of the 61,000 mile mark!
OK, last week essentially same problems on my '04 Prius, with 32,000 miles. Sound cuts off, Map display gone, climate controls not working, etc. However, I have no indications of brake noise or gas engine working harder. I had it to the dealer (still under warranty) and all they could find after two techs, was some error messages on the audio. That didn't fix it after clearing those messages. BTW, I had the new firmware flashed late December 2005. Wondering if I should hard press the dealer service or find some way to take this issue straight to Toyota? Any suggestions?
Just heard back from my dealer. Apparently my warranty doesn't cover the electrical system of the Prius. That is only covered up to 36,000 miles. The estimate for replacement is $4,314.36. Eek!
The problems with the display failing is a known problem. There is a TSB covering the problem. However, if your warranty has expired, you may be out of luck and have to pay the cost of a new display. Or, as indicated in the TSB, it may just be a matter of a loose connection. I would have your local service dealer check out this TSB and see if it applies to your situations. Hopefully this will help.
It is funny you should mention that, because I have and I believe I was mislead by my sales person. My warranty booklet references 5 new vehicle limited warranties, one of which is the Hybrid Vehicle System warranty which I recall my sales person reinforcing it as my "insurance" that the hybrid was a reliable investment and not a risky purchase.
As an end-user of the car, to me the Hybrid Vehicle System, including the Hybride control module, is my center console. The center console provides the interaction I have with the vehicle and provides me with feedback on how the hybrid engine is operating. Without this unit's functionality while driving the car is nothing more than a suped-up golf cart, with no radio, no climate controls, no navigation, no bluetooth, no info on engine status or mpg.
I have referenced the TSB EL002-05 with my dealer. I have them now offering an exchange unit for $600 installed. I have opened a case with Toyota customer assistance and left a message with the dealer Customer relations manager to see if I can get some assurance my $600 investment will resolve my problem.
The console is not part of the HSD system, just as the tires or the air conditioning or the radio are not It is a display and is not necessary for the HSD system to function. If they are giving you any console replacement, it is purely a good will gesture on Toyota's part. The HSD is the battery electronics and the synergism of the ICE and the MG1 and MG2.
:mad: Many years ago I had a similar situation with a new VW bug. I took the dealer to small claims court and the judge ruled in my favor. No class action suites, expensive lawyers, etc.. You will be surprised how fast dealers change their tunr when they get sued. Since most small claims in this country are good up to 5000$, you are within limits.
I am a computer programmer, and our company has put similar touchscreen displays in many different places. The ones that last the longest (8yrs and still running fine) are those that are kept covered somehow. The ones that give out the quickest are those that are in direct sunlight. :sick: Even though I have only had my Prius one day now, I am looking into how I can make a cover for the display. In the meantime, I am definitely getting a cover for the windshield so that when the car is parked the display is not harmed. :shades:
Now, I am not sure that the displays that I have been using in my work are the same make as those in the Prius, but we have tried several different makes of touchscreens out at the job site, and they all seem to fail more often when continuously exposed to direct sunlight. (worst case: less than a year, out in the desert & 108 degrees +). It isnt really a software problem but it looks like it is when it happens.
Soft touch screens yes, but the Prius as well as all other touch screens in cars are hard crts screens with a grid of led lights/photelectric cells. Puttting your finger down on the screen really only interrupts the led to photoelectric path. There is no need to build a cover for you Prius "touch" screen becuase it really isn't a touch screen in the true sense any more than a garage door sensor is.
Likewise there is no need to get a windshield cover, unless you think it might keep you interior cooler; it definitely will not help or hinder the hard CRT screen.
Actually, I was talking about light on the screen. The technologies for the touch function are different, that is for sure, but a screen is a screen. When we put these things out in the desert, outside where they were exposed to the light (and heat) quite a lot, the screens themselves (not the touch functions) died. Now, whether it was due to heat or light I cannot say, but I do know that the temp was at least 108 degrees F for a maximum, with brilliant sunshine. The units we put out in the field are made so that they are impervious to water and dirt (hence the difference in technology). They are also supposed to keep up under strong light.
Still, those small screens tend to die when they are exposed to extreme temperature and light. All I was suggesting was that the interior of the car be protected from the light (and hence, heat). This will not only protect the screen, but it will help with the leather, too...just an opinion that I thought might be helpful.
Have just had the computer replaced in my 2002 Prius. This was under warranty, however the mechanic said that I had to also replace the fuel tank and a relay. This will cost over $500.00. My service provider said that this was a problem with the 02 and 03 Prius. the first problem occurred when the Prius died on the road and had to be towed to a garage. All sorts of warning lights came on. five weeks later the same warning lights came on and we were told that the problem was the fuel tank. Has anyone else had this experience? I think that the company should cover both solutions. BCR
Ask the service provider if the car will pass the emissions test with the fuel tank that is in the car? If not it should be covered by the 8 yr 100k mile portion of the warranty.
"Ask the service provider if the car will pass the emissions test with the fuel tank that is in the car?"
There is a list of items covered by the extended warranty (which is different for 1st gen Prius than 2nd gen), and I don't think the fuel tank is a covered item.
One thing to keep in mind about mileage: it's a rate.
Going from 50 mpg to 45 mpg represents the same increase in absolute fuel consumption as going from 25 mpg to 23.7 mpg.
Even more telling, going from 60 mpg to 50 mpg is the same as going from 20 mpg to 18.75 mpg! But few people would readily complain about the latter because it doesn't look bad.
Proof:
If you drive 12,000 miles 60 mpg: 200 gallons 50 mpg: 240 gallons Increase: 40 gallons
I own a 2004 Prius which was getting good mileage in 50's now it is started getting 36 to 40. This is after the recall. I think it is programed to make the engine run more on gas. The dealer said to change the air filter and clean the engine which we did but so far no change.
Welcome to the forum. I would keep bugging the dealer. If you know you have not changed your driving style, there may be something wrong. You are not the only one that has claimed mileage went down after Toyota did the update to prevent stalling. If they keep telling you nothing is wrong. You might ask the service manager if he knows of another dealership that has more experience with the Prius. I would not let them off the hook. Your mileage has dropped close to 25% from what is normal mileage.
I purchased a 2005 Prius with the navigation package version 04.2 on 6-22-05. On February 23, 2006; I witnessed the screen lose half the brightness, and road lines, instead of being smooth, are now segmented(jagged).The colors in other displays have also changed color and darkened. I would like to hear from anyone that has experienced this and what remedy Toyota offered.
You can get a cover that matches the interior of the Prius on Ebay - designed for it, as a matter of fact. We have a Prius and just bought a Hightlander Hybrid we were so happy with the Prius. Glad we got the Highlander this year - I don't like the look of the 2007!
I've got a question - Does anyone know if the 2007 Prius will have a moonroof option. I'm a bit afraid to go aftermarket on this vehicle. Not enough people know how to work on them that have been trained ... don't want to mess up anything on it.
I took the car to the dealership and they observed the condition. The service manager called the Toyota Service Rep. and responded back to me that they are aware of the problem. The dealer service department could not help me. An appointment was made with the Toyota Manufacturing Service Rep. We drove my car and another used 2005 Prius. The Rep. concluded that both systems have the same characteristics and I agree. My contention is that they tested it against a used car with the same problem instead of a new system of the same version. I was told that they don't have any. I told them that their test method is wrong. I have since had numerous conversations with Toyota headquarters Torrance. They say they can't help me and have forwarded papers for arbitration. I cannot understand the reluctance to fix the system that has degraded within seven months.
I've had the same problems with my '04. It has been serviced numerous times by the dealer whose techs look lost when the issue is explained to them. They usually hook it up to some service-mandated computer propram that "updates" the computer software. But it is clear that few if any of these guys have any real experience working on this type of car. Its like my attempting to explain how a VCR works on the basis of my ability to program it by pushing a few buttons. I would suggest taking yours to a Toyota dealer and requesting a "computer software update" that they say can improve the mileage. I just did mine but I was not impressed by the results thus far. Hope this helps...
I was just wondering if or how your situation was resolved. I've been having the same problem for months and 2-3 trips to the dealer have failed to improve it. In fact, I struggle to get 43-44 mpg whereas I was around 50 mpg in the Fall. The reasons they gave included changes in the type of fuel used in the West (Ca.), gas gauge problems, and a colder than usual winter. My trump card might be that since I have reported prior to the expiration of the 3 yr./36,000 mile warranty, that I might be saved. Also, I noted that it says next to nothing about the on-board computer in the warrenty booklet. Have you any info on that?
Thanks for sharing your stories. I took my 2004 Prius in yesterday at 43,000 with the same issue: radio cuts off, outside temp goes blank, climate screen says "check connection to air-conditioner", loss of function from temp up or down buttons on steering wheel, etc, etc. They said the center console unit would need to be replaced - for $4100, plus 100 for labor. I repeatedly asked if there was not a loose connection or a defective sensor, or if it could be a programming glitch in the recent recall reprogramming - and the answer was 'no' to all. They also said it was not covered by the hybrid system warranty, but that they would re-check with Toyota and I should get back with them next week. So I drove home, and noted that all systems are working again..for a while. I'll advise them to read the service advisory, check for the loose connection noted in it, and then, if replacement is still the only option, tell them of the precedent of the offer to do it for $600. Do we know where the dealer is who made that offer? and I'll add my own observation of milage dropping from my usual 52 average down to 46-47 since the recall 'fix'.
Hi all - I have a 2004 Prius w/86,000 miles on it - I drive a lot for work. I have taken this car in regularly to have oil changes etc., had the reprogramming done when the recall came out. This week I had the issue of the radio going in/out, climate screen saying "check connection" etc. I took it in and after 3 hours the service dept tells me that the center console has to be replaced at a cost of nearly $3500. He said that because my car has such high mileage Toyota won't offer any reduced cost, etc. I see from the posts that others have had this problem. Is there any resolution other than with coming up w/all that cash? I have talked up this car to so many people and have been a big influence on at least 3 others to buy Prius - now I am wondering what happened to the Toyota quality I had heard so much about and believed in.
now I am wondering what happened to the Toyota quality I had heard so much about and believed in.
Welcome to the forum. Please keep us informed on how you make out on this. That is a lot of money. I would be curious if the console is made up of several different modules or did Toyota make it one piece that would need to be changed out.
The same thing happened to me, but luckily when the car was under warranty and Toyota replaced it w/o charge. Your experience proves the wisdom of purchasing an extended warranty, especially since a 7 year (from date of original purchase), 100,000 mile Toyota Platinum Warranty (same as new car warranty) with $0 deductible can be purchased for under $1000 as long as the car is still under the original factory warranty. $250 a year seems to me cheap insurance against repairs such as yours.
My daugher has an 05 Prius, and last night, while driving back from Gainseville to Ft Lauderdale, the same problem noted in other posts happened..and the car completely shut down and had to be towed to Stuart Toyota (100 miles from home). We are waiting to hear what the dealer will do about the issue and not just re-install the same faulty program. Also, I am going to ask the dealer, or Toyota, to flatbed the car to my home in Ft Lauderale when it is fixed as I had drive my daughter home from there and dont think its fair to have to drive 200 miles r/t again to pick up the car. BTW: while the car is "off" due to the software, one cannot lock or unlock the doors, except by manually locking them (then you cannot unlock them). also, the front wheels were frozen and the tow truck driver had to slide the car off of the ramp. we were forced to leave it at the dealer on a sat night with the electronic key in the drop box. has anyone had their issue resolved? thanks.>JJ
Are these common problems? I just paid 16k for a salvaged and professionally repaired Prius with no warranty. No warranty at all. It only has 14000 miles on it but now I am worried that I could have a money pit on my hands!
Same problem - I'm now down to 34-38 mpg since the recall. It definitely does not run on electric when on the street and gets much less on the freeway. I don't think that the tech knows what he's doing. They just seem to know to put in the new software and don't have much knowledge about overall performance. The car's performance has never been been that great. I got it up to 60 mpg on a 200 mile trip once. The rest of the time it has been lousy, and no, it's not my driving. I drive mostly on the freeway @ 62 mph, coast, slow accelerate etc. I have considered myself lucky to get 44 mpg and the decline started the day they installed the new program.
Can anyone recommend a good Toyota tech? The dealer is polite and all that but I think they don't have a clue. I'm in the Pasadena area.
Give it about 5 tankfuls. I had the recall done in January, saw an initial drop in milleage, but things are now back to the way they were before.
My understanding is that the computer that controls the engine's fuel effeciency gets reset during this procedure and has to relearn everything about how the engine is using fuel and adjust things as necessary. Which of course can only happen when you drive it.
Comments
With the hybrid winter performance hit, we won't really know until warmer weather.
Ironically enough, my 2003 CR-V EX AWD gets 1-2 MPG better in the winter. However, I think that is because of the Southern California "Winter Blend" gas. The summer blend is very poor for MPG.
Why I sold it is a long story that had nothing to do with my happiness with the Prius (my only issue with the car was the lack of a seat height adjustment).
My colleague has a slightly longer commute (30 minutes) and usually gets 54 mpg. He had the software upgrade done this week and was really happy! His mileage went from 54 mpg to around 60 mpg, admittedly on a Prius friendly series of errands. His impression was that the car cycles the battery a bit deeper, i.e. gets more effective battery capacity.
Anybody else with an increase in mileage following the upgrade?
J
P.S.: Our different figures on the same car in the same city (Houston) just confirm that the way you drive and the type / length of commute really influence your mileage. Same happens with normal cars and none of them get EPA mileage under my commuting conditions. So I think 44 mpg was excellent!
Hybrids not feasible? Explain how I can get 50MPG in a sub 27k car with the same features in some high end vehicles.
For example, when I first turn the car on, the gas engine will startup immediately or within a minute or two even though I have not touched the accelerator pedal and the battery charge is reported as almost fully charged (one bar below the top). The gas engine also comes on when I am driving below 20 mph and barely pressing on the pedal.
Is all this "normal"? Is there anything I can do about it?
There is a kit available that allows the car to be driven in EV mode (electric only) below 34 mph and still use moderate 'pedal.' Electric only range is very limited and this 'mode' is not always available due to battery charge state and temperature. Depending on hills, EV only range can be as little as 1/2 mile, though range on essentially flat roads can be two miles or more.
I had to wait to reply - it was 39 degress this AM! BRRR, but later I suppose I'll hit the beach when it gets up to 70 degrees...
So I went to a dealer in Ohio, they said the problem wasn't covered under my Prius 100,000 mile warranty. I don't think they know what the problem is, but just want to replace the center console. So I sent the Prius back to my original dealer in Pennsylvania to check out the problem. Prius owners bewary of the 61,000 mile mark!
So I went to a dealer in Ohio, they said the problem wasn't covered under my Prius 100,000 mile warranty. I don't think they know what the problem is, but just want to replace the center console. So I sent the Prius back to my original dealer in Pennsylvania to check out the problem. Prius owners bewary of the 61,000 mile mark!
You wrote "under my Prius 100,000 mile warranty." Have you read your warranty terms lately, to determine for yourself what is and what is not covered?
As an end-user of the car, to me the Hybrid Vehicle System, including the Hybride control module, is my center console. The center console provides the interaction I have with the vehicle and provides me with feedback on how the hybrid engine is operating. Without this unit's functionality while driving the car is nothing more than a suped-up golf cart, with no radio, no climate controls, no navigation, no bluetooth, no info on engine status or mpg.
I have referenced the TSB EL002-05 with my dealer. I have them now offering an exchange unit for $600 installed. I have opened a case with Toyota customer assistance and left a message with the dealer Customer relations manager to see if I can get some assurance my $600 investment will resolve my problem.
The console is not part of the HSD system, just as the tires or the air conditioning or the radio are not It is a display and is not necessary for the HSD system to function. If they are giving you any console replacement, it is purely a good will gesture on Toyota's part. The HSD is the battery electronics and the synergism of the ICE and the MG1 and MG2.
Cheers,
MidCow
Now, I am not sure that the displays that I have been using in my work are the same make as those in the Prius, but we have tried several different makes of touchscreens out at the job site, and they all seem to fail more often when continuously exposed to direct sunlight. (worst case: less than a year, out in the desert & 108 degrees +). It isnt really a software problem but it looks like it is when it happens.
Likewise there is no need to get a windshield cover, unless you think it might keep you interior cooler; it definitely will not help or hinder the hard CRT screen.
Double sixes,
MidCow
Same technology as the PDA, correct? They are sensitive to sunlight.
I'm pretty sure the original post was referring to a shade to keept the sun off of the screen, not a cover for the screen itself.
Let the light shine,
MidCow
Still, those small screens tend to die when they are exposed to extreme temperature and light. All I was suggesting was that the interior of the car be protected from the light (and hence, heat). This will not only protect the screen, but it will help with the leather, too...just an opinion that I thought might be helpful.
PS
welcome to the forum...
There is a list of items covered by the extended warranty (which is different for 1st gen Prius than 2nd gen), and I don't think the fuel tank is a covered item.
Going from 50 mpg to 45 mpg represents the same increase in absolute fuel consumption as going from 25 mpg to 23.7 mpg.
Even more telling, going from 60 mpg to 50 mpg is the same as going from 20 mpg to 18.75 mpg! But few people would readily complain about the latter because it doesn't look bad.
Proof:
If you drive 12,000 miles
60 mpg: 200 gallons
50 mpg: 240 gallons
Increase: 40 gallons
20 mpg: 600 gallons
18.75 mpg: 640 gallons
Increase: 40 gallons
Doesn't matter how many miles you choose. The increase is the same.
This also proves that you can't compare mileage specs using percentages, it's all about how much fuel you actually use.
Welcome to the forum. I would keep bugging the dealer. If you know you have not changed your driving style, there may be something wrong. You are not the only one that has claimed mileage went down after Toyota did the update to prevent stalling. If they keep telling you nothing is wrong. You might ask the service manager if he knows of another dealership that has more experience with the Prius. I would not let them off the hook. Your mileage has dropped close to 25% from what is normal mileage.
I've got a question - Does anyone know if the 2007 Prius will have a moonroof option. I'm a bit afraid to go aftermarket on this vehicle. Not enough people know how to work on them that have been trained ... don't want to mess up anything on it.
Let me know if you know.
Thanks & Peace, Patty
Welcome to the forum. Please keep us informed on how you make out on this. That is a lot of money. I would be curious if the console is made up of several different modules or did Toyota make it one piece that would need to be changed out.
We are waiting to hear what the dealer will do about the issue and not just re-install the same faulty program. Also, I am going to ask the dealer, or Toyota, to flatbed the car to my home in Ft Lauderale when it is fixed as I had drive my daughter home from there and dont think its fair to have to drive 200 miles r/t again to pick up the car.
BTW: while the car is "off" due to the software, one cannot lock or unlock the doors, except by manually locking them (then you cannot unlock them). also, the front wheels were frozen and the tow truck driver had to slide the car off of the ramp. we were forced to leave it at the dealer on a sat night with the electronic key in the drop box.
has anyone had their issue resolved?
thanks.>JJ
Bill
Can anyone recommend a good Toyota tech? The dealer is polite and all that but I think they don't have a clue. I'm in the Pasadena area.
The only way the tech could do it wrong would be to install the wrong software. It is not as if he/she could change anything else.
My understanding is that the computer that controls the engine's fuel effeciency gets reset during this procedure and has to relearn everything about how the engine is using fuel and adjust things as necessary. Which of course can only happen when you drive it.