I had previously posted a message about this identical problem happening to my 2004 Prius. My dealer installed a new touch screen under warranty and the problem has not recurred. In addition he new screen had a new feature---you can toggle the info button to switch automatically between the two info screens.
I just want to reassure visitors here that many of us who own 2nd Gen. Prius's are trouble free. Nothing to report but a reliable Hybrid getting 52-55 MPG's WITH AIR on during this last two weeks of extreem 90's heatwave. Frankly I'm surprised that my Prius is performing so well. The Air in this car is about the best I've come across thru the years of cars that failed miserably when at an idle in traffic jams. Here is a car that performs unbelievably in the most difficult situations and still delivers on great milage. I would like to mention one rare occurance with my car that puzzled me. My cars security system went into alarm mode once for no apparent reason. I suppose it could have been triggered by a critter in my garage. Who knows? Railroadjames (toot-toot...ding-ding)
People need to keep in mind that there are close to if not over 300,000 prius's on the roads worldwide and with a VERY few exceptions, this has shown to be an extremely reliable vehicle so far. There is always going to be the exception that makes it a rule, and they are still built by falible human beings and there will be ones that aren't perfect, but overall it has shown alot of promise.
UPDATE - I took the car to another service department, they were able to reproduce the problem, found some diag codes are actually sent the computer to Houston for analysis. I'll update the forum when I get a resolution.
I think if you'll check my posts carefully, you will see that I don't recommend that people use potential software problems as a "deal breaker".
However I submit to you that everyone should not minimize the possibility either. If a problem is low probability, it means that it will rarely show itself. It does not mean that the problem does not exist.
The problem with software errors is that they will hide until the specific circumstances arise that cause the code to fail. They are a bit more insidius than hardware or traditional car CPU problems, because the Prius is more complex.
Seems to me that this car is one great big computer... and we all know how reliable our home computers are!
Guess it is ok if you keep up with all the "updates" too bad there is no automatic update option for a car. Gotta take it to Toyota service everytime!
What really scares me about the Prius over the long run is what will happen when the warranty runs out? Are the software "patches" still free?
For a car that the dealer is getting around 9% profit with each they sell at MSRP! I would expect more.
Basically this is a Prius lifecycle....
Give Toyota $2800 (or more) in pure profit on a PK#6 you bought at MSPR or more! Spend another $4000 or so to drive a hybrid vs another comprable car Then... Save $600 approx with the tax deduction (one time) Save about $600 in gas per year.
So after 10 years we'll call it almost even.
Even if gas prices DOUBLE it will still take at least 5 years to break even.
Now I am not against hybrids AT ALL! I think we need to raise the average MPG big time for the sake of the country. What I'm against is Toyota overcharging the consumer BIG TIME! Open your eyes and start making Toyota play fair... 2-3% profit is reasonable. Not 9% especially with all the issues!
Toyota is just making that on the Prius. What about the Camry that they just sold for $100 over their cost? This is how they are making their money. When supplies ease, it will be a buyer's market. With respect to software updates, get used to it. ALL cars have computers these days. The Prius just has a few more. My friend has had his '04 and has 35,000 trouble free miles. That's much better than the car I drive now! I can't wait for my '06!!!
Ok lets add in the $419 holdback check they will get at the end of the quarter
Then... The $6 worth of gas YOU payed for The Advertising allocation that you payed for ($280) The Whsl Fin reserve that YOU payed for ($209) Not to mention shipping ($540) Toyo guard anyone?
So at a minimum they still made $519 pure profit on that $100 over cost deal!
Plus they got YOU to still pay for shipping, advertising, gas, Whsle Financial Reserve etc. Seems like a pretty sweet deal to me!
Who knows if the dealer got an extra spiff for volume...
$100 over invoice is still a good deal for the dealer, I would shed no tears for them.
The PRIUS still has a lot of software glitches...FYI!
to the cost of the Prius instead of software issues?
I think that the dealer would program any CPU updates for free along with your regular service, if a TSB has been issued. There should be no cost.
Also, we should remember that the Prius is not a Windows XP (or imbedded, or any other version of MS operating system) device. I suspect it is a custom software job built just for this vehicle. So comparing it to the MS XP, with it's massive memory leaks and other problems, is a bit unfair.
History: 2005 Prius - 9000+ miles, all kinds of driving (highway, long distance, around town, with and without AC, approximately 45 mpg), no problems; 5000 miles check up and computer card replacement.
Two days ago - hot (upper 80-s), using AC, in downtown Baltimore, start and stop driving on my way to the Interstate --- the red emergency light comes on, "take to a Toyota dealership immediately" --- no power, the battery with one level available, enough power intermittently to open and close windows.
Two days later, after a tow and "a computer chip replaced", all seems well.
Ok, so now what!!?? When will it happen again? What caused it? Am I at the mercy of this lovely electronic marvel???? I want an understanding of what happened and what I can do to prevent another occurrence.
"ANYONE driving a car in 2005 which was made in the last 5 years is at that mercy. Prius owners are not special in THAT way...."
I must disagree, most cars are not as complicated as the Prius, with it's multiple drive systems. The basic use of computers to run the engine is now very established (about 25 years old). The complexity of the HSD and all the electrical components opens the sphere of software failures being larger; hence this forum.
" Ok, so now what!!?? When will it happen again? What caused it? Am I at the mercy of this lovely electronic marvel???? I want an understanding of what happened and what I can do to prevent another occurrence."
Thanks for your post. I would rest easy. If your dealer was telling the truth, you had a rare hardware failure in your CPU. This is the first instance of hardware failure reported in this forum.
If it was really hardware, it won't be likely to re-occur.
I don't think he was refering to the problems of windows but in how easy it is to click on a icon that takes to to the update site and tells you which updates you need, no fuss, no muss. As far as updates go like windows and most all other software they are continuely updating it to make it better but not always telling us because it isn't a needed update. So it would be nice if each year you could go to the local dealer and get a free update if any are availible. :confuse:
" So it would be nice if each year you could go to the local dealer and get a free update if any are availible"
Some people have made the excellent suggestion that Toyota post the software version number on the multifunction display when the car is booted, er, started. That would allow owners to check their version.
Of course, then Toyota would be telling everyone just how many times they are modifying the code, which they may not wish to do.
Granted the Prius is complicated but most cars today are quite complex. Imagine the computer that they have in the Hemi that shuts down the cylinders? There are many, many computers in cars these days. I have faith in Toyota's commitment to the technology and will be getting an '06. I know many people who own the 2nd gen Prius and are quite thrilled with it. I can't wait!
"Granted the Prius is complicated but most cars today are quite complex."
I have been reading some occasional reports of other cars with CPU errors. However, no matter how much higher the level of complexity of today's cars, the Prius is higher yet, due to the more complex drive system.
I wouldn't let it deter anyone from buying the Prius, it is just an observation.
Is the Prius more complicated than a Lexus LS400? How about a Mercedes SL500? I guess the RH now has the most complicated system now. It has electric rear drive as well.
"Is the Prius more complicated than a Lexus LS400? How about a Mercedes SL500? I guess the RH now has the most complicated system now. It has electric rear drive as well."
Answers: Yes, Yes, and Yes.
The vehicles you mention are getting close in terms of complexity, but most of their complexity lies in the creature features inside the vehicles. Their mechanical controls are extensions of well known and tested technology, including the software controlling that technology. They are evolutionary.
The Prius' most basic features are more complex, encompassing the very drive system itself. And the electric components, plus the computer code to tie it all together, add a layer of complexity not seen on non-hybrid vehciles. I lump the new Lexus Hybrid in with the Prius in terms of complexity.
The Prius' most basic features are more complex, encompassing the very drive system itself.
How many planetary gear sets does an automatic transmission have, not to mention the control mechanisms which shift between them? HSD seems simple by comparison. No shifting at all.
Admittedly the number of somputers in the Prius is higher than other cars, but Toyota seems to have their interactions squared away pretty well.
The Prius may be more complicated but its service records seem better than some German cars. I'd rather have reliable complexity vs unreliable simplicity.
I have been looking at the 05 Prius as my new vehicle, and after the 99 GMC Jimmy disaster, I want to do more research than spending. I know now I should have used this website as a source, vast loads of information that is attainable and cited. SO... now you know my life story.... when I saw the forum I wanted to investigate to make sure I would have at least a low probability at having a problem... I am wondering two main things:
1: Since this post was started involving the 04 model, has the 05 been an improvement over the software problem?
2: What are the main problems, if any, predominantly mentioned here about the 05?
I have waded through enough of these messages to realize at least two more things:
-Some of you guys have WAY too much time on your hands :P
-Lots of posters need to include way specific year make and model they are talking about in the post...
Hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just trying to figure out the information I need.
Welcome to the forum. You will get varied opinions on this board for sure. If you want additional info on any given make, model and year of car, I recommend the NHTSA site. Specifically the "Office of Defects Investigation". This is where people go to file complaints with the Federal Government for particular vehicles. You will see that the Prius has a LOT of complaints compared to many other vehicles. If you want a reliable car that gets good mileage I would go with a more mainstream automobile like a Camry or Accord. And the 2005 model Prius has many complaints also.
You really can't rely on the posts on the government's website as there may be multiple postings. My Prius is an early 04 model and I was diligent in getting all my software updates done. I have over 30k miles with NO problems whatsoever. The Prius enjoys a 94% satisfaction rating according to CR. Go ahead and buy one and you won't be disappointed. You'll be MUCH happier with a Toyota than buying say a VW (their reliability is quite awful). Another alternative would be a Corolla with side airbags and stability control (safety first!). The Camry is nice too but you won't have the Prius goodies and stellar mileage. Lastly, look at the Scion TC. A bargain with tons of content and Toyota reliability.
You'll be MUCH happier with a Toyota than buying say a VW (their reliability is quite awful).
I think if you do a lot of research, reliability as a whole is better than 20 years ago. I know that there are no complaints on the 2005 VW Passat and close to 100 on the 2005 Prius. So making a blanket statement about VW reliability is mostly urban legend. The Prius has cost Toyota a bit of it's glitter on the reliability front. Heck, I saw a brand new no license plate Lexus LS430 sitting on the freeway with it's hood up and a very befuddled looking gentleman staring in at a beautiful engine compartment. That was a first for me.
I would recommend the Prius, if it fits your budget and size needs. Toyota will eventually square up the software and get everything right (indeed, maybe they already have fixed the worst problems). I have seen a couple of NHTSB software complaints on the 2005 (about 5 last time I checked).
There are only a couple of counter arguments:
1. Unknown long term maintenance. Ignore this if you plan to get rid of the car at 3 years or so. 2. The technology makes the Prius expensive compared to a comparable size car. 3. Your mileage may vary - literally. If you are looking for high MPG, you have to drive the way the Prius is designed. The car will drive any way you want, but your MPG will suffer.
"How many planetary gear sets does an automatic transmission have, not to mention the control mechanisms which shift between them? HSD seems simple by comparison. No shifting at all."
Yes, but we are talking about the software complexity, and it's interaction with the entire vehicle. Also, we cannot ignore that the modern automatic transmission (which uses planetary gearsets, just not the same way), is a proven technology, with a long history. Not that we are aware of any design problems with the HSD, it is just that it does not have the developmental history behind it that the normal automatic transmission enjoys.
Let's not call Prius a car in it's "infancy" now......
The orginal Japanese Prius which went on sale in 1997 in Japan had at least three or four years of development before it hit the road. That puts it in 1993-1994 range, meaning 11-12 years now.
Definitely agree on that! For one thing it is NOT urban legend about VW having poor reliability. Just have a look at Consumer Reports and see all the BLACK dots and then look at the red dots for Toyota. Heck... there are even websites solely devoted to lemon VWs. Their dealer network is probably the worst in the country. I agree that the Prius is definitely a better bet than a VW. The VW's are nicely put together and solid cars but their reliability is quite abysmal. It has been improving though.
...whatever other generalizations you can make and get away with on a site like this one, what doesn't work is to claim that ANY recent VW product can beat ANY recent Toyota product for reliability. And that includes that fiendishly complex Prius.
The only data that the public gets to see [as opposed to the manufacturers, who needless to say, are not going to tell you] that meets the definition of a decent sample size is from Consumer Reports. Case closed.
I just got back from the VW dealer, driving a new Jetta TDI. Great car - better with the TDI engine than with the standard 5 cyl. Quiet, good ride, as much room inside as the current Passat, and with a 16 cu ft trunk that looks every bit that size and usable to boot. But more reliable than any Toyota? - not in this lifetime....
That might not stop me from considering the Jetta, but I'd be realistic about my expectations - the Prius is the better PRODUCT, while not necessarily being the better drive. I plan on renting a Prius next week to see how it compares.
I definitely miss my Audi, but I don't miss frequent visits to the repair facility. I love the new A4 and would not mind owning it. I just can't deal with their high maintenance. I have 30k miles on my Prius. Believe me, if this car gave me any problems like the Audi, it would be on autotrader in a heartbeat. I am not saying the Prius is the best thing since sliced bread, all I am saying is that it is the most reliable car I've owned in the past five years. I also agree about the TDI engine... much better than the gasser and it should easily surpass 200,000 miles with proper maintenance.
2nd UPDATE - Toyota sent the computer to Houston for analysis. They could not figure out what's wrong, so they replaced the computer. Everything seems to be working fine now.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Prius. It's spunky, quiet, gets great gas mileage, roomy, responsive. HOWEVER, it looks like the only way I'm going to feel it's reliable is to have "Trip Information/Energy Consumption" on screen all the time so I know what's happening with the various power sources. SO, I don't end up Dead On The Road again!
Since the incident I have found it takes LOTS of battery power to re-charge my cell phone while I'm driving AND a good bit of battery power to keep the air conditioning going. I'm wondering if the Dead On The Road incident has compromised one of the driving batteries because it seems the battery power goes down faster than it used to. (Not that I kept much focus on it most of the time.
Gary, again you try to steer folks from the Prius to (your favorite) Passat. You're entitled to your opinion and all would be well if not for the tainted statments,"close 100 on the 05 Prius," (ballony) I've yet to see your data support on the,"05' VW Passat being practically perfect in every way (a Mary Poppins Car). I personaly know of one 05' Passat owner that has had repeated overheating problems and tranny slippage. C.R has not been too kind to it either. Then you put the inuendo about a Lexus LS430 sitting on the freeway implying that it broke down when for all you know it was out of gas. Stick to data and facts and try not to taint your opinion so much . We all would prefer a reasonable dialog with you that has more merit than fertilizer. Railroadjames("just the facts ma'm"--Dragnet)(man am I old-generation quoting that!)
Facts are what I am interested in also. The Prius has an inordinately high amount of complaints to the government agency that takes those complaints. To infer that because a paid media report says something is great when facts show otherwise is something I will refute. I would not encourage anyone to buy a VW Passat. I am skeptical of the car myself. So far it has been great. I have also watched the same government agency for any reports on the Passat. Granted more Prius have been sold in MY 2005 than the Passat. However these reports are not one or two for any given failure. One class of problem was at 48 complaints the next week I checked it was at 54 complaints. This is on the 2004 Prius. It tells me that Toyota is not making the owners happy. You are not the only owner of a Prius that frequents this board. Many come with problems and none of the Prius owners acknowledge they have posted. I guess you hope they will take their problem elsewhere. Until Toyota and their snooty dealers start responding to the complaints they will pile up and get out of control. Next thing you know they will get the same reputation that Mercedes and VW are trying to get away from right now.
I guess an LS430 with the hood up could be out of gas. If it were me I would call AAA and get some gas for it. As much as you have been mislead to believe Toyota is infallible. No one is and it is tough regaining the confidence once it is lost.
PS I just counted the complaints on the 2005 Prius and they are way down from the 2004 Prius. A total 53 complaints to ODI. As a point of reference the Camry in the same MY 2005 has had a total of 43 complaints. Of course they did sell 4 times as many Camry's as they did the Prius. Those are facts from actual owners. Just the facts.
I think the problem with the Prius is that there are SO many uninformed drivers out there that they are unfamiliar with some of the nuances of the technology. I read some of the complaints which really are ridiculous. One person had a blowout on his tire. Another person accidentally shifted from D to B (I guess he had huge knees). I know that the Prius boards are certainly not representative of the folks that have bought these cars. Most of tha participants in these forums are very technical astute individuals who are quite familiar with the technology. A HUGE majority of them are extremely happy with their purchase. I for one, am not disuaded and will by an '06 when they become available. I don't think that anyone posting here can ever persuade someone from a decision they are going to make. Gary has not convinced me that I should get a Passat. The Prius speaks for itself, as it has a 94% satisfaction rating from CR. Overall, it is an extremely reliable vehicle. If the mainstream people who don't understand hybrid technology will not followup on software updates, then we will continue to see problems. My brother-in-law has 35,000 trouble free miles. OTOH, my insurance rep from Blue Cross constantly curses his Audi A4. I had a 96 and I loved it. It's all luck sometimes. Oh..btw... in that nice photo of your cars, absent was the Passat. Was it at the dealer? Just curious.
Happy 4th of July to all of you out there in cyber land.
I agree that a portion of the complaints are kind of dumb on all the cars. Maybe a lot of the problems are proper orientation when the car is delivered. I have to blame Toyota on the software upgrades. Many of those that complained here said they never received any upgrade notice. This may be with all new cars. I don't know. My Passat is fine, thank you for asking. I have someone that wants to buy it when it gets to the required 7500 miles. I will probably sell as that was my original intention. My wife wants a Beetle to run around town in. So it is back to Oregon if I can get a good price on a Yellow Beetle TDI. Here it is with my used to be Suburban.
Have a good holiday. We are having a BBQ and then climb the hill to watch 3 fireworks shows around the county. It is pretty spectacular. Just a note I see someone bought a #6 Prius for 3% over invoice looks like your patience will pay off.
hi folks. Well, I thought I wanted to purchase a 2005 Prius, but after reading your postings, I'm befuddled. I now have a 97 Volvo 960 with 125k miles on it, and it's starting to cost more and more to keep it together. The hippiechick in me wants a hybrid that will treat the environment with care, but I've done the 'freaking out on the highway' thing with my first car (a Chevy Vega ... I know, it was all I could afford at the time!!) ...so would y'all please advise? Is there another hybrid you would recommend? I loved the safety of the Volvo, but thought that with the extra airbags, the Prius is a good idea. thanks so much! Irene
I believe if you go and buy a new Prius today the odds are highly in your favor that you will not have any of the problems that have been discussed here. Since Priuses don't tend to stay on dealer lots for long, anything you find today is likely to have all the appropriate updates already done to it.
For a car its size the 2004-05 Prius turns in a respectable performance in the government crash tests (remember, the "star" ratings can only be compared within classes). Your 960 is a larger, heavier car so it probably would do better in a crash situation, but you pay for that in lower mileage and higher emissions. Volvo has shown little interest in fuel efficiency as of late (witness the upsizing of the engines in the S40/V50 from a 4 cylinder to a 5 cylinder), and reliability has been a concern in a number of areas.
We have a 2002 Prius which has given yeoman service (I've replaced one $19 relay and other than that it's been routine maintenance). Other than the people who have had the particular problems listed in this thread, the Prius overall has excellent customer satisfaction ratings.
Seems like we are off -topic from Toyota Prius Software Problems. This discussion is for people reporting/wanting more info specifically on the software issues. It is not about the overall reliability, etc. of the Prius. That conversation can take place in another Prius discussion.
Comments
Realizing, of course, that the error codes are produced by the software, and if they didn't think of a certain error, no code will be produced.
I would like to mention one rare occurance with my car that puzzled me. My cars security system went into alarm mode once for no apparent reason. I suppose it could have been triggered by a critter in my garage. Who knows?
Railroadjames (toot-toot...ding-ding)
People need to keep in mind that there are close to if not over 300,000 prius's on the roads worldwide and with a VERY few exceptions, this has shown to be an extremely reliable vehicle so far. There is always going to be the exception that makes it a rule, and they are still built by falible human beings and there will be ones that aren't perfect, but overall it has shown alot of promise.
Thanks for bringing a dose of reality.
Ken
I think if you'll check my posts carefully, you will see that I don't recommend that people use potential software problems as a "deal breaker".
However I submit to you that everyone should not minimize the possibility either. If a problem is low probability, it means that it will rarely show itself. It does not mean that the problem does not exist.
The problem with software errors is that they will hide until the specific circumstances arise that cause the code to fail. They are a bit more insidius than hardware or traditional car CPU problems, because the Prius is more complex.
Guess it is ok if you keep up with all the "updates" too bad there is no automatic update option for a car. Gotta take it to Toyota service everytime!
What really scares me about the Prius over the long run is what will happen when the warranty runs out? Are the software "patches" still free?
For a car that the dealer is getting around 9% profit with each they sell at MSRP!
I would expect more.
Basically this is a Prius lifecycle....
Give Toyota $2800 (or more) in pure profit on a PK#6 you bought at MSPR or more!
Spend another $4000 or so to drive a hybrid vs another comprable car
Then...
Save $600 approx with the tax deduction (one time)
Save about $600 in gas per year.
So after 10 years we'll call it almost even.
Even if gas prices DOUBLE it will still take at least 5 years to break even.
Now I am not against hybrids AT ALL! I think we need to raise the average MPG big time for the sake of the country. What I'm against is Toyota overcharging the consumer BIG TIME! Open your eyes and start making Toyota play fair... 2-3% profit is reasonable. Not 9% especially with all the issues!
Ok lets add in the $419 holdback check they will get at the end of the quarter
Then...
The $6 worth of gas YOU payed for
The Advertising allocation that you payed for ($280)
The Whsl Fin reserve that YOU payed for ($209)
Not to mention shipping ($540)
Toyo guard anyone?
So at a minimum they still made $519 pure profit on that $100 over cost deal!
Plus they got YOU to still pay for shipping, advertising, gas, Whsle Financial Reserve etc. Seems like a pretty sweet deal to me!
Who knows if the dealer got an extra spiff for volume...
$100 over invoice is still a good deal for the dealer, I would shed no tears for them.
The PRIUS still has a lot of software glitches...FYI!
I think that the dealer would program any CPU updates for free along with your regular service, if a TSB has been issued. There should be no cost.
Also, we should remember that the Prius is not a Windows XP (or imbedded, or any other version of MS operating system) device. I suspect it is a custom software job built just for this vehicle. So comparing it to the MS XP, with it's massive memory leaks and other problems, is a bit unfair.
Two days ago - hot (upper 80-s), using AC, in downtown Baltimore, start and stop driving on my way to the Interstate --- the red emergency light comes on, "take to a Toyota dealership immediately" --- no power, the battery with one level available, enough power intermittently to open and close windows.
Two days later, after a tow and "a computer chip replaced", all seems well.
Ok, so now what!!?? When will it happen again? What caused it? Am I at the mercy of this lovely electronic marvel???? I want an understanding of what happened and what I can do to prevent another occurrence.
No different from getting stranded with a blowout or a dead battery.
When will it happen again?
That SAME problem? Most likely NEVER.
What caused it?
Maybe Toyota can tell you. Integrated circuits fail, just like mechanical parts.
Am I at the mercy of this lovely electronic marvel????
ANYONE driving a car in 2005 which was made in the last 5 years is at that mercy. Prius owners are not special in THAT way....
I must disagree, most cars are not as complicated as the Prius, with it's multiple drive systems. The basic use of computers to run the engine is now very established (about 25 years old). The complexity of the HSD and all the electrical components opens the sphere of software failures being larger; hence this forum.
Thanks for your post. I would rest easy. If your dealer was telling the truth, you had a rare hardware failure in your CPU. This is the first instance of hardware failure reported in this forum.
If it was really hardware, it won't be likely to re-occur.
Some people have made the excellent suggestion that Toyota post the software version number on the multifunction display when the car is booted, er, started. That would allow owners to check their version.
Of course, then Toyota would be telling everyone just how many times they are modifying the code, which they may not wish to do.
I have been reading some occasional reports of other cars with CPU errors. However, no matter how much higher the level of complexity of today's cars, the Prius is higher yet, due to the more complex drive system.
I wouldn't let it deter anyone from buying the Prius, it is just an observation.
Answers: Yes, Yes, and Yes.
The vehicles you mention are getting close in terms of complexity, but most of their complexity lies in the creature features inside the vehicles. Their mechanical controls are extensions of well known and tested technology, including the software controlling that technology. They are evolutionary.
The Prius' most basic features are more complex, encompassing the very drive system itself. And the electric components, plus the computer code to tie it all together, add a layer of complexity not seen on non-hybrid vehciles. I lump the new Lexus Hybrid in with the Prius in terms of complexity.
How many planetary gear sets does an automatic transmission have, not to mention the control mechanisms which shift between them? HSD seems simple by comparison. No shifting at all.
Admittedly the number of somputers in the Prius is higher than other cars, but Toyota seems to have their interactions squared away pretty well.
jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 5500 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.5MPG
1: Since this post was started involving the 04 model, has the 05 been an improvement over the software problem?
2: What are the main problems, if any, predominantly mentioned here about the 05?
I have waded through enough of these messages to realize at least two more things:
-Some of you guys have WAY too much time on your hands :P
-Lots of posters need to include way specific year make and model they are talking about in the post...
Hope I didn't offend anyone, I'm just trying to figure out the information I need.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsearch.cfm
I think if you do a lot of research, reliability as a whole is better than 20 years ago. I know that there are no complaints on the 2005 VW Passat and close to 100 on the 2005 Prius. So making a blanket statement about VW reliability is mostly urban legend. The Prius has cost Toyota a bit of it's glitter on the reliability front. Heck, I saw a brand new no license plate Lexus LS430 sitting on the freeway with it's hood up and a very befuddled looking gentleman staring in at a beautiful engine compartment. That was a first for me.
I would recommend the Prius, if it fits your budget and size needs. Toyota will eventually square up the software and get everything right (indeed, maybe they already have fixed the worst problems). I have seen a couple of NHTSB software complaints on the 2005 (about 5 last time I checked).
There are only a couple of counter arguments:
1. Unknown long term maintenance. Ignore this if you plan to get rid of the car at 3 years or so.
2. The technology makes the Prius expensive compared to a comparable size car.
3. Your mileage may vary - literally. If you are looking for high MPG, you have to drive the way the Prius is designed. The car will drive any way you want, but your MPG will suffer.
Yes, but we are talking about the software complexity, and it's interaction with the entire vehicle. Also, we cannot ignore that the modern automatic transmission (which uses planetary gearsets, just not the same way), is a proven technology, with a long history. Not that we are aware of any design problems with the HSD, it is just that it does not have the developmental history behind it that the normal automatic transmission enjoys.
The orginal Japanese Prius which went on sale in 1997 in Japan had at least three or four years of development before it hit the road. That puts it in 1993-1994 range, meaning 11-12 years now.
That's not really "new" is it?
The only data that the public gets to see [as opposed to the manufacturers, who needless to say, are not going to tell you] that meets the definition of a decent sample size is from Consumer Reports. Case closed.
I just got back from the VW dealer, driving a new Jetta TDI. Great car - better with the TDI engine than with the standard 5 cyl. Quiet, good ride, as much room inside as the current Passat, and with a 16 cu ft trunk that looks every bit that size and usable to boot. But more reliable than any Toyota? - not in this lifetime....
That might not stop me from considering the Jetta, but I'd be realistic about my expectations - the Prius is the better PRODUCT, while not necessarily being the better drive. I plan on renting a Prius next week to see how it compares.
Since the incident I have found it takes LOTS of battery power to re-charge my cell phone while I'm driving AND a good bit of battery power to keep the air conditioning going. I'm wondering if the Dead On The Road incident has compromised one of the driving batteries because it seems the battery power goes down faster than it used to. (Not that I kept much focus on it most of the time.
Railroadjames("just the facts ma'm"--Dragnet)(man am I old-generation quoting that!)
I guess an LS430 with the hood up could be out of gas. If it were me I would call AAA and get some gas for it. As much as you have been mislead to believe Toyota is infallible. No one is and it is tough regaining the confidence once it is lost.
I just counted the complaints on the 2005 Prius and they are way down from the 2004 Prius. A total 53 complaints to ODI. As a point of reference the Camry in the same MY 2005 has had a total of 43 complaints. Of course they did sell 4 times as many Camry's as they did the Prius. Those are facts from actual owners. Just the facts.
I agree that a portion of the complaints are kind of dumb on all the cars. Maybe a lot of the problems are proper orientation when the car is delivered. I have to blame Toyota on the software upgrades. Many of those that complained here said they never received any upgrade notice. This may be with all new cars. I don't know. My Passat is fine, thank you for asking. I have someone that wants to buy it when it gets to the required 7500 miles. I will probably sell as that was my original intention. My wife wants a Beetle to run around town in. So it is back to Oregon if I can get a good price on a Yellow Beetle TDI. Here it is with my used to be Suburban.
Railroadjames
...so would y'all please advise? Is there another hybrid you would recommend? I loved the safety of the Volvo, but thought that with the extra airbags, the Prius is a good idea.
thanks so much!
Irene
For a car its size the 2004-05 Prius turns in a respectable performance in the government crash tests (remember, the "star" ratings can only be compared within classes). Your 960 is a larger, heavier car so it probably would do better in a crash situation, but you pay for that in lower mileage and higher emissions. Volvo has shown little interest in fuel efficiency as of late (witness the upsizing of the engines in the S40/V50 from a 4 cylinder to a 5 cylinder), and reliability has been a concern in a number of areas.
We have a 2002 Prius which has given yeoman service (I've replaced one $19 relay and other than that it's been routine maintenance). Other than the people who have had the particular problems listed in this thread, the Prius overall has excellent customer satisfaction ratings.
Thanks!
but thank you Stevewa and Sylvia!
Irene