Toyota Prius Software Problems

railroadjames

Hi, Irene! Jim here to pass along this.....Software problems are not the headache that some would have you believe. I own an '04 Prius with over 20K and have had "NADDA" problems with mine as have most others. I can't over emphasize how much I think the problems that have made news media attention are blown out of porportion. I've talked to dozens and dozens of owners and, as yet, not a single one has fallen prey to the software issues that have been overshadowing this car of the future that can be had today. I was an early buyer and was able to get one (ordered) for less than $20,645.00 out the door. I did follow up on TSB's (tech serv. bulletins) 2 to be exact. One for a brake-lt & one for a software up date. Some call them recallibrating the computer. Lastly, be aware of naysayers that would have you believe that this hybrid is untried and unproven...NOT!!! SO!!! The car has been in the works and developed over ten yrs. Toyota stands behind this special car with an 8 yr 100K warrantee. That should give you confidence as should the name "TOYOTA". Nuff said!
Railroadjames ( Remember...No car is perfect...but some come mighty close)

molokai

I agree 100%. I was an early purchaser as well (Oct 2003) with over 30k miles and not one single problem. I too had the software updates and this car has performed flawlessly for 1.5 yrs. I am quite confident that this vehicle will give me many, many years of reliable service. Trust me Irene, you will be quite a happy camper. Prius owners that I speak to always speak about their cars like their children. The relationship between man and machine is truly amazing. This is my most favorite car and I've had quite a few since I started driving.

irene1

thank you railroadjames and molokai.
my only worries were the software problems.
y'all rock!
)
Irene

jand2

I'm new to this, but I agree Sylvia. I'm one of the people with a 2004 Prius that has stalled in traffic and lost power many times also. Had the car towed to the dealership 3 times, they charge battery, call me to pick up car and say "nothing is wrong" ! As Prius owners know, when there is no power, only the driver's door opens. Think of having my grandchildren in car seats in the back !!!! Dangerous if rear ended !!! Please, anyone, tell me if you have any suggestions. Thanks in advance.

falconone

Bring it back under the lemon law. If they can't fix it 3 times they give you a new car. Tell them to give you a Camry instead. It appears your dealership doesn't know anything about the Prius.

gagrice

To invoke the "Lemon Law" you will need good documentation. Towing charges to the dealer etc. I would not count on the dealer to provide any proof that you were there. They should have done any necessary updates on the first time it was towed in. Hard to believe at this stage of the game they are not aware of the TSB's. What is the name & city of the dealership?

stevedebi

"The hippiechick in me wants a hybrid that will treat the environment with care, but I've done the 'freaking out on the highway' thing with my first car (a Chevy Vega ... I know, it was all I could afford at the time!!)
...so would y'all please advise? Is there another hybrid you would recommend?"

I would not hesitate to buy the Prius if it fits your needs and budget. They will solve whatever software problems that are found. This forum exists to discuss any such problems; as such, it is not representative of all the Prius out there. The odds of your having software problems are quite small. Certainly, it will be more reliable that a Vega!

I would advise basing your descision on what you read about how the car operates here. For one thing, if you want the best MPG, you have to adapt your driving habits. Also, don't buy the Prius to save money; you will save on gas costs, but the jury is still out on the total cost of ownership, with long term repairs and resale as the big question marks, plus the higher cost of purchase.

There are other options out there. For example, if you are looking to save gas & purchase costs, a Toyota Echo will be almost 1/2 the cost of a loaded Prius. It won't have the same level of ride and features, but it will achieve over 40 MPG (driven like a Prius, see above about driving habits), will be utterly reliable, and easy to park and maneuver in town. Due to the higher enviornmental costs of building the Prius, an Echo would probably just about even out on the "green" scale for pollution over the life of the vehicle, because of it's relatively high MPG. And it never needs an environmentally "expensive" battery replacement. Thus it is environmentally "viable", just not so obviously "green" as driving a Prius. But which is more important - being seen as environmentally conscious, or just the fact that your vehicle is environmentally responsible?

larsb

quote Gagrice-"What would you recommend this lady do with her Prius?"-end quote

I would recommend the same thing that everyone with any experience owning cars should know:

If a dealer cannot repair/fix a car, get thyself to a second and third dealer if required to solve the problem.

Just because one dealer with their own specific skill set in the technician area cannot solve a problem does not mean it is an "unsolvable" problem. You just have not gotten the car to the right tech yet.

No carmaker can 100% guarantee that EVERY dealer can solve EVERY problem that a car they sold might have. But they CAN guarantee 100% that there IS A SOLUTION which can be found by the right tech with the right tool and the right motivation.

Shop around to solve your problem. If you have to drive 100 miles to another dealer, well, it's part of being a car owner in 2005.

gagrice

If you have to drive 100 miles to another dealer, well, it's part of being a car owner in 2005.

I would never do that. I would go a long ways to buy one. I would not travel any distance for warranty work. I have never had a problem getting warranty work done at the closest dealer. There is NO excuse for that. If you cannot service what you sell you should not be in the auto business. She needs to go for the Lemon Law if she has done her documentation. I would hope that she contacted Toyota Corporate on the second and third failure. With the popularity of the Prius every dealership should have a fully trained tech.

larsb

I'll put it this way: If you LIKE or LOVE your car, you should be willing to drive a little ways to get it fixed. Every dealer (just like every service center for any type of service - Toyota cars are not the only thing I am talking about ) cannot fix EVERY problem in EVERY car the first time - that's just not realistic. This is not 1957.

molokai

It really is a shame that we have come to the point where dealers CAN'T service what they sell. I leased a C320 in 2001 and brought it back 3 times for a suspension problem. They never fixed it right and every time I hit a bump it would shake and make noises like an old taxi cab. I gave up and said screw it, the next owner will deal with it. Luckily I have a wonderful dealership that has good technicians. If Toyota (or other dealers selling hybrids) don't train their technicians well, the hybrids will become big paperweights.

larsb

This type of thing is not new, and is not merely a "car technician" thing. I work in the computer support industry, and I have seen MANY TIMES when a tech was dispatched to fix a "insert complicated device name here" where the tech has been required to (due to the complexity of the item being repaired) call up to his department and get further help, and in some cases, a second or third tech has been dispatched who has deeper knowledge of the item..

It's the nature of life in the 21st century - as devices and computers and cars get more complicated, the training takes longer to filter down to everyone involved. Some techs and some people are inherently better at solving problems, and not every tech department has all the most qualified people on staff all the time.

Not really sad, just a fact of life today, just as being able to fix your own car in the 1960s was a fact of life......:D

gagrice

in some cases, a second or third tech has been dispatched who has deeper knowledge of the item.

I agree that not all techs are created equal. It is the responsibility of the dealership to find a person to fix the vehicle when it is brought in. That is why the "Lemon Law" was needed. If it is a recurring problem I would think that Toyota to maintain their dominance in the area of reliability would instruct their dealerships to not have second and third recurring failures. I lean more toward the direction of Molokai on this one. If it gives me a lot of trouble I would get rid of it. I think this is a case of not keeping up with tech bulletins on the Prius. Sloppy incompetent service manager.

arbd

I test drove a Prius last weekend and got a follow up call today from a manager. I thought I'd mention this and see what he had to say. He knew instantly what I was referring to, said there were 33 reports, and all of those cars had been run out of gas at least twice before the problem occured.

Just thought I'd throw this out for discussion.

molokai

I don't think all those cases were those who ran out of gas, though a few cases it may be true. I did read of one situation where a woman coasted into a gas station on electric power. She explained that she didn't think the car ever needed gas! Some people take chances and go low on the tank thinking they have more fuel than they actually have. I do think there is a software issue which is why they have the updates. I did get all the mailings and I think I know why some didn't. If the dealership fails to report the address of the buyer to Toyota, how can they inform them of the TSB? Funny thing is I still get recall letters from Chrysler for my 2002 Liberty.

markdel

If you are comparing complaints, check out the HCH vs the Prius, year by year, side by side at the government site the HCH has been consistantly fewer and of less consequence. In 2004 there was only 4 complaints against the HCH. Makes one wonder why the Prius is sooooo good... :P

falconone

Some of the complaints about the Prius had to do with poor navigation instructions, blown tires and people unfamiliar with the technology. When the HCH has all the bells and whistles the Prius has, I'll consider it. In the meantime, the HCH does not even offer stability control or hatch versatility. It also can't run the A/C on electric power at stop lights.

stevedebi

"In the meantime, the HCH does not even offer stability control or hatch versatility. It also can't run the A/C on electric power at stop lights."

The HCH isn't tall like the Prius, and has less need for stability control.

You are correct about the hatch.

The 2007 HCH is supposed to be able to run entirely on electricity at low speeds, so I would suspect that it will run the AC on electric as well.

Overall, the Honda hybrid method is simpler than the Toyota HSD. I think that is the reason there have been less complaints. A second reason is that it was designed on a known platform - the Civic is in it's 6th generation, I think. The Prius is a new design. Additionally, the HSD requires more complex software that the Honda IMA, to handle the separate inputs to the propulsion system.

molokai

Stability control saves lives. It does NOT matter if the car is tall or lower. There are statistics that prove this. I will NEVER buy a car without this feature. I'll post some links later today.

Sylvia

If not, perhaps some of these questions and comments are better suited in the Toyota Prius Owners: Problems & Solutions discussion

voidvoice

I dont own prius but have been rent it a few times. I read that the software need to be updated and it will fix this problem, is it true? if it is the case, how do i know the software already updated? perhaps somewhere on the "screen' show the version of the software, like our PC software? thanks

molokai

If you give the VIN number to the dealer they should be able to tell you if it needs an update. I am not sure if the technicians log the VINs as they're updated. They should. When I had my Mercedes each service center knew the repair history of the car.

stevedebi

" Stability control saves lives. It does NOT matter if the car is tall or lower. There are statistics that prove this."

Please make sure you post the links which prove that VSA with a small, low to the ground vehicle has saved lives. Don't bother posting generic stastics or for trucks and SUVs. Thanks.

BTW, have you driven the current generation Civic? I have never had problems with stability in any situation.

molokai

It's mainly helpful in snow and rain. If you're going like a wild man on an offramp it may kick on (depending what vehicle you're driving). In Europe fatal accidents have been cut dramatically since the introduction of stability control. Honda supposedly will have it in all their cars within a few years. Even Hyundai has it in their Sonata. Unfortunately very few people understand how it works which is why many people pass it up on the options list.

Links to various sites were posted under 2004 Prius.

stevewa

In theory there should be an indication somewhere on the vehicle when services are performed. In the case of the battery re-sealing on the Classic Prius, a sticker was placed on the driver's side doorjamb with the date and mileage of the service campaign completion.

stevedebi

Thanks for the links. I personally would not pass up any safety feature if offered. But there is no question that the larger and more top heavy the vehicle, the more safety is offered by VSA.

molokai

Yes..simply the law of physics. That is why it is standard equipment in the Scion B and not even available in the other Scions. I guess Toyota knows how the young folks will be driving these things!!

doctor1

for whatever reason my browser doesn't show a post message for this forum so I can only reply.

June 9th my 2005 Toyota Prius died while traveling 65mph on the Interstate. I was unable to coast to a safe area, and after 3 people swerved and honked angrily at me, a kind man, and then 3 others helped me push it uphill to where there was a shoulder. It was just like everyone else described, but it would not restart. It was 9:30 at night, and I called the Toyota service number. They sent a towtruck, but refused to authorize a rental car even though I had purchased their extended waranty service. I had to awaken someone,because it was now 11:30pm, and they drove 60 miles from my home to pick me up and then take me home. The next day I Googled Prius stalling and found that this was a known problem. I called my dealer (In Idaho) and they knew nothing about a stalling problem with Prius. While I waited, they googled and then said they would get right back to me. In a few minutes the Prius Regional representative called me and told me I had just run out of gas. I tried to explain that I wasn't out of gas and he was rude, eventually agreeing to the statement that "Toyota just doesn't care".
44 hours, and multiple calls later I finally got a rental car. A few days, and a new computer later my car was finished late in the day and they wanted me to pick it up the next day, when I worked. Mind you - they are 60 miles away from me and I needed to get someone to drive with me to drive the rental car home. They said they wouldn't authorize the rental car any longer.

Supposedly the car is fixed ( a new computer was installed) but not only do I not feel safe in the car, but Toyota really doesn't care. I wrote a letter and they called, I returned the call and basically they said that the car was fine and if I was worried I should take it to the dealer, who says it should be fine but they don't know why it failed.

The representative would not transfer me to a supervisor. Furthermore he lied, saying there were only 13 cases of Prius's stalling, and that they had never stalled more than once. He also said never believe what you read on the internet.

I travel over the mountain passes regularly, and if my car stalls while I am passing in the mountains, I am dead meat. I don't want the car, but spent everything I had saved to get this car, the last one I expected to have in my life. (Now that's funny, isn't it, since it may be the machine that ends my life.)

I have written to my Congresswoman, and I want all of you to do the same. We need to put some pressure on Toyota, especially since they are being so non-responsive to the problem and the tremendous burden a failing car makes on people, as well as the danger it puts us in.

Thanks - an Oregon doc

falconone

Some people have actually REALLY ran out of gas. If not, have you had the software updated in your Prius? If you feel unsafe, I'd suggest selling the car as it IS a seller's market. You'd probably get a fair price and then you can buy something more to your liking. The big 3 have some really good deals now. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

dmathews3

Welcome to the world of Toyota :P while they make good cars their customer service is where the big three was in quality in the 80's. They may have made some bad cars then but they have good customer service. Take that guys advice and dump the :lemon: and see what kind of deal you can make on a GM or Ford which has some big big deals.

texvegas

This is exactly why I am going to sell or trade my 2004 Prius with 16500 miles on it. At 62 years of age and with the gadget novelty worn off, I feel I cannot trust this car with my life. Additionally I really cannot afford the extended warranty needed after the 3/36000 expires. I have really enjoyed the experience but I feel now is the time to move it while it still has exceptional resale or trade value. Thanks, a New York State retired Pharmacist.

molokai

I think a lot of people are over reacting. Have you had you car updated? As an FYI.. no one has died with respect to the issue of the software update (i.e stalling). I just read that Nissan is recalling most of the Murano SUVs they sold in the US because of an issue with the alternator wire. If the car loses electrical power it will run on battery then stall. If you look on the government's website, almost EVERY car has issues. My friend has a brand new Mercedes S class and has had it in service twice (only two weeks old!). I also see there are numerous problems with the Liberty Diesel but owners still love their vehicles and are waiting a fix from DC. I've had my Prius for over 30k miles now with NO ISSUES at all. If you are truly gonna sell your Prius, let me know here first. I'll save you the trouble of selling it as I know a few people interested. Your loss and their gain.

texvegas

Yes I've had all the updates and the car has always been problem free. I get 51+ mpg with AC on. I'm just bored with it and want something else. I want to get rid of it before problems begin and the warranty has expired. I mentioned selling it here and had the post pulled by the moderator.

gagrice

almost EVERY car has issues

That is true and the reaction is similar to this one. If it is a serious issue, especially dealing with safety, people want to get rid of the car. Especially a car that just quits in traffic. If Toyota was more in tuned to customer service they would make sure every owner was advised of this buggy software. Even Microsoft sends you free upgrades to correct problems. Toyota has not responded through their dealers to those that have had problems. That is why they are rated below average for customer service. They may be getting too big to handle their own problems. Toyota could end up in the same mess that GM was in.

falconone

Try going on ebay or autotrader. I bet you can still get top dollar for the car. Please keep us posted on what you replace it with. My best friend gets a new car every year, as he never is satisfied with his cars. He gets bored.

falconone

I still don't think the problem is serious as you think. If it were, it would still be in the news. I still have't heard of people getting killed either. I don't think GM is where it is now because of customer service, it has to do with their products and poor quality. That is definitely improving. Toyota/Lexus makes some of the most reliable cars in the world. You simply can not dispute that fact. I put Honda and Toyota on par with the best reliability. I hate to say it as I know you own one, but VW has one of the worst records for reliability and their dealer network is simply horrible. This is why their Phaeton failed in the US. Great car, horrible dealer service. Bottom line, the Prius is a very, very reliable car. I know far too many owners that would say the are thrilled with their purchase.. Am I still getting the '06? Most definitely.

pennmom

Hi -- Count me as another Prius owner that had the car stall and die. It happened this evening, as I was driving my young sons to a basketball game in the local city here. The tank was full of gas. Suddenly, warning lights were on the dashboard, and I quickly realized the gas engine was not going on to recharge the battery, and the battery charge was quickly depleted. I had about two city blocks before it stopped completely. Although the car would go no further, the dashboard lights stayed on, and I could neither turn off the car nor remove the key fob. I was in a bad neighborhood with my kids as it was getting dark. I was scared and furious about this. Fortunately the AAA tow truck came after 45 minutes just before dark and saved us.

My car is 2004 and has about 15,000 miles on this. I had a problem one time before about a year ago. It wouldn't start, but I was able to get it on after about 10 minutes. Also, my computer screen died several months ago, and was replaced under warranty.

An hour later, I went down to the Toyota dealer lot where the tow truck had left it. It was about 1 hour later. The *&*() car started up, the gas engine kicked on, and started charging the battery!!!! I am now worried the dealer will just tell me that everything is fine.

I have been the biggest fan of this car until this. I am very interested to read all of your postings about problems. I don't know if I can trust this car any more with my kids. I am so upset about this .......

Sylvia

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience. You've come to the right place for information and support. The Prius members here have been nothing but courteous and helpful.

While I don't own a Prius (wish I did!) I'm sure the fact that warning lights went off there should be some type of diagnostic code trail. The other owners here will be able to help you.

Again, sorry for your headache this evening. Most important - you and your sons are safe.

falconone

Just curious if you got the software updates. If you did, then it appears something else is in the computer is causing the problem. I also read Toyota got a bad bunch of MFDs from their supplier. Unfortunately you got one of them. Ironically, none of my friends that own the 04+ Prius have encountered any problems. Thank goodness you're okay. I can't imagine breaking down in a bad neighborhood. Our thoughts are with you!

pennmom

Thanks to all for your concern. I believe I did have a software upgrade sometime last year, although I need info from the dealer to see what was involved with that. My car is now at a small Toyota dealership that doesn't have a mechanic that knows Prius (their one is on disability for 3 weeks) so it must be towed 45 minutes away. I am hoping Toyota will cover the towing cost. Both dealerships said that none of their Prius customers have had this problem yet; but both were aware of the reported problems -- however, they were told that all problems were the result of driver error. My gas tank was full, and is never allowed to run down low. I drive this car with my young sons all the time and I take very good care of it. I also plan to report this to the National Highway Transportation Safety Board which seems to be investigating these problems. I do not want to give up on this car and this technology, but I am very worried.

gagrice

however, they were told that all problems were the result of driver error.

This is a recurring story at Toyota dealers. Toyota does not want to accept they have a problem. So they blame problems with their cars on the customer.

So sorry to hear of your trouble. Be sure and document all your problems and trips to the dealers. I would file a complaint with the NHTSA. They are the only government agency that can beat Toyota over the head and force them to accept responsibility.

molokai

You should try and find a dealer with a good Prius tech person. I made sure I had all my updates and have not had any problems. That is NOT to say that I can have the same problem you had. It is rare, but when you consider the tens of thousands of new Prius on the road, the problems are quite isolated. I fully support this technology and trust that Toyota will figure out what's going on. I'm enjoying the summer weather and filling up every two weeks. Currently my MFD says 51.3 on this tank. I love my Prius! I hope you get your problem straightened out real soon. Just be lucky you didn't buy a Saturn Vue. My friend bought one early June and already had the transmission replaced. Luckily he wasn't hurt. GM/Saturn were very good with the repair, but my friend is nervous it can happen again. I warned him against that car, but he wanted it. Oh well....

Sylvia

Many people have found it helpful to print out the posts found here and take them to the dealer / service technician. In some cases, the dealership has actually gotten the items covered under warranty or decreased the fee substantially. Just because your dealer hasn't seen this issue doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Keep us posted!

pennmom

Thanks again for all your suggestions. My Prius will not be looked at until next week (Monday hopefully) and I will let you know what happens. I have been reading about Prius at this forum since Summer 2003, before I bought my 2004 Prius, and have found it immensely helpful.
Also, I did file an online complaint with NHTSA -- I wanted to add my name to the list so Toyota pays attention to this dangerous problem.

Thank you all again!

priusga

I also have had a problem with my 2005 Prius stalling. I had 3/4 tank of gas and have had the software updates. The symbols on the dash when the car stalled were an exclamation point with a triangle around it and a car cut in half with a red background. Then the word "Problem" appeared. I am fortunate to have a good dealer who gave me an tow and a loaner car, but I still don't have my Prius back. The Prius manual did not have the last symbol listed. doctor1 and other forum posters, what were the codes listed for your stall? Did your dealer identify them?

Thanks for any response.

Sylvia

Welcome to the Forums - sorry to get you here under such circumstances. I'm sure many of the members will be able to assist you.

gagrice

Just be lucky you didn't buy a Saturn Vue

Isn't that the Saturn that uses the Honda V6 with 5 speed auto transmission? If so it sounds like they are having the same failures Honda is having with that transmission.

PS
You should have your friend file a complaint with the ODI. I only find 1 transmission problem for the 2005 Saturn Vue.

falconone

I think the 2004 had the transmission problems. Maybe it was an 04. Now that Honda has provided the Vue with their engine and tranny it's a good buy. I'd buy one. I looked up the 2003 and 2004 and there were many more complaints. Maybe that's why GM gave up and had Honda bail them out.

pennmom

When my Prius stalled yesterday, almost all of the warning lights on the dash were lit up; I admit I don't remember them all. I do remember the red triangle, but I also know that VSC was lit up and that only lights up in slippery conditions (it was clear and dry). Things were definitely screwed up. When I checked it at the car dealership this morning, only the check battery light was on. It also seemed that the gas engine was continuing to fail to come on and stay on to charge the low battery.
Please tell us when you find out what was wrong with your car. I am anxious to hear what they say about mine --

railroadjames

Sorry to hear of your problems....Seems that with this hybrid car it is impotant that Toyota and their Dealers maintain a high level of reliable service and competence. I found this to be one of the deciding factors in my purchase of an '04 Prius 2 yrs ago this Nov. All info and TSB's were cared for in an attentive and concerned way. I placed total confidence in my dealer. While I feel no car is above a failure of some kind, the Prius has gained my confidence totally or at least as much as is possible. I too pay attention to these posts ans especially YOURS. I hope that your Toyota assistance improves and I hope you find renewed confidence in the Prius. Some of what you hear here is going to be negitive. I hope you see through it and appreciate we Prius owners that support your endeavors and hope for a satifactory outcome.
Railroadjames (Prius...A car for the Times)