The Future Of The Manual Transmission

callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
edited December 2013 in General
Got a problem!

Yup, major beef here! HUGE Beef!

Did I miss a meeting with the transmissions, huh?

You can get every trandmission except MANUAL transmissions!

They gots Auto, Autostick, SMG, Manumatic, F1.

But getting a REAL transmission seems like buying a Bee Gees album.

The PT Cruiser for 2005 had a nice price cut. Now you can get the car for a base sticker price of under $14000, with manual transmission! Great!

Only one thing. You can only get two options, and YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED to get A/C (Automatic tranny required)

What the $%&#!!

Now SOME manufacturers will tell you people don't want manuals any more.

Might these be the same ones pairing manuals with the weakest engines, the least equipment, the poorest colors, or the fewest choices of trim?

Let's face it, manufacturers are MANIPULATING the public into NOT getting the manual.

Everyone will point to how low the percentage of manual drivers there are for new cars, but if you put the manuals with better equipped, more powerful cars, they will sell very well!

Manuals are cheaper to buy, cheaper to repair, have fewer problems, require less maintainance, perform better (cars are faster, though the gap is shrinking), and are more efficient!

In other words, it is THE BEST tranny you can buy!

But will you?

Anyone else have a bone to pick with the PLANNED OBSOLESENCE of the "Stick"?
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Comments

  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    Well, they should last several decades longer in Europe than here, so there'll always be the option of importing a transmission from there. Except on expensive cars, anyway. Even exotics are starting to lose them.

    My family has manual transmissions because we've always had to buy old, cheap cars, and automatics start shaking, stuttering, and dying at that age. But now I'll never switch; I could fall asleep in an automatic. It's just no fun at all. And sure, a DSG might be faster (I could shave a couple of seconds off my commute!) but I'm speeding everywhere as it is.

    The Audi A3 is a car I'd consider, probably for my next car. But I won't be able to get the Quattro version. Among luxury cars, only those with street cred among racers (IS, G35, 3-series) will have luxury transmissions but who knows for how long?

    The challenge of trying to pull off smooth shifts is rewarding. So's a good heel-and-toe as you barrel into a turn. And of course, the girls seem to like it too.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHMember Posts: 22,679
    I used to think I'd be the last stick shift driver after going nearly 40 years without ever owning
    a slushbox car.

    That changed after I had a stroke in 2000 and I was forced to buy a clutchless car. I'm now on my third juicebox car and I'm grateful that I've been able to get then with manumatic gearboxes (Tiptronic Audis and a Steptronic BMW). These are not as satisfying to operate as a good manual but they do allow you to easily select a gear which may be more appropriate when driving in certain conditions.

    They're getting better all the time and there's a good chance that my next car will be equipped with a DSG type shifter which allows for very fast race-car type shifts and best of all has no torque converter to soak up the power.

    I wonder why some high performance cars, notably the new Corvette C6 do not offer a Manumatic type shifter in place of the tradition set it and forget it automatic?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    A simple reason to why they don't upgrade the auto on a Corvette is because they don't have to. Chevrolet will sell every one that they can build as it is, so to spend more money in the engineering process is a waste for them. Typical of GM to not offer anything that they aren't forced to offer either by the government or competition.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    are still the way to go and what's more is I don't think they're going to disappear. I love to control the engine output and transmission manually. I notice that my favorite Kia still offers a new car with manual transmissions(like the new 2005 Kia Sportage)and Scion is big on stick shifts, too. I wouldn't buy a tC with an automatic transmission! No way! I think the carmakers will keep offering them...I don't like the fact that A/C isn't standard on many new cars, including my favorite Kia Motors. If you want the base model you'll get your manual tranny but in most Kia models you have to add A/C as an option.

    There's no way I would even try to endure a Midwest summer without air conditioning!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    If I'm interested in a car, and one trim level makes you pay for A/C, I won't even consider that trim.

    The Mazda3 i is like that.

    I'm not paying $850 for A/C. Ain't happnin'!

    DrFill
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHMember Posts: 22,679
    I can't believe a/c is still an option on some cars.
    Even in in New England where hardly anyone has an airconditioned home it's almost universal in cars.

    After all a car is a big metal box that heats up quickly and cools down slowly.

    Back to topic I'm sure we're only about a decade away from a time when only purpose built sports cars will have three pedals and even with those many will have no clutch pedal, like today's Enzo.
    .

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • chris65amgchris65amg Member Posts: 372
    Manual transmissions will be around for a while. At least in Europe. I was talking about cars with one of my friends from Germany, and she thinks automatics are "no fun!" Right on. There isn't anything like a stick. Even though these manumatics are getting better, they're on more expensive cars. Still.... there are a bunch of cars that have manuals.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 54,983
    What irks me are cars that are offered with a manual in other markets, but not here. Like you could get a manual S-class up until 1991! Except in NA, where I believe the last manual S would be a 6cyl 108 c. 1969.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    last I checked, the 3-series here in America sold 40% of their cars with manuals!

    And the lack of a 5-speed really hurt sales of the Lexus IS to their desired market in 2001.

    DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    for the manual quite rapidly last year, but was MOST gratified to notice this year that in the truck realm, Nissan, Toyota, and Jeep took the trouble to upgrade their manuals to six-speeds for the '05 model year, and make them standard (if not in plentiful supply!). That is in Frontier and Tacoma, Liberty and Wrangler, and XTerra. Next year's Toyota FJ will have a 6-speed manual which, while optional, is an encouraging sign given that it is included on a brand new model for the '07 model year.

    Then there are companies like Honda that still seem fairly committed to making sticks available, at least for all their 4-cyl models. And they still sell a very healthy mix of manuals in the Civic and even the Accord lines. Toyota, of course, has all but given up on the manual but even it is aware of the appeal in sporty cars - the Corolla XRS with the Celica engine has a 6-speed manual as its only transmission.

    Lastly, I am encouraged to see Acura having a very hard time moving auto-trans RSXs, so much so that they have extended and cheapened a promotional lease on auto RSXs only. BMW had so many leftover auto 3-series sedans that it did the same thing - the salesman informed me when I checked into it that the special lease applies only to autos, NOT manuals.

    Subaru is another one that still sells a healthy mix of manuals, but of course follows the trend of not offering a manual for any of its 6-cyl models - shame shame.

    That is all the good news. The reality, I think, is that most of the premium-branded models we still have with sticks today (Acura TL/TSX, BMW 3- and 5-series, Mercedes C-class and SLK, Lexus IS, Audi turbo 4's) will not have them within a decade. Either SMG/SMT will be cleaned up to work much better, or more companies will adopt a DSG-type system, and it will be toughened up to handle more power. In the meantime, auto-stick will gain wider and wider acceptance.

    I think we can reasonably expect some pick-ups to continue to have them, along with some smaller sporty cars. I think the rule of having manuals standard in all really cheap 4-cyl cars will also go away, however, once auto-stick becomes really pervasive.

    And on a sidenote, I think A/C will be standard on every car within a decade. Cars without it already take such a huge hit on saleability at trade-in time, it is doing a disfavor to the owner not to make it standard. And it must be like 95% of all cars and trucks that now have A/C from the factory.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    I think Aston Martin is doing it right with the 2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage...it will only be available with a manual transmission when it goes on sale (at least for a year or so).

    The 2006 Pontiac Solstice will initally only be available with a manual tranmssion.

    I hope the Cadillac CTS-V is only available with a manual transmission in the future (as it is now).

    The Corvette Z06 needs to stay manual only (no autos or paddle shifters).

    I think it is sad that the new BMW M5 doesn't have a manual transmission...any pimple-faced teenager with a permit can drive it! It took skill to drive the old M5s.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    BMW has had numerous problems with SMG in the M3 and Z4. Just stick with the manuals, c'mon!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    "I think it is sad that the new BMW M5 doesn't have a manual transmission...any pimple-faced teenager with a permit can drive it! It took skill to drive the old M5s."

    And don't forget, IIRC, the next M3 also will not have a traditional manual.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    How are you gonna work hard to sell automatic cars on a lease program, but cut out the performance tranny on your best performance metal?

    Farfegnugen!

    DrFill
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Use the slightly underpowered, non-performance oriented trims/vehicles for automatics.

    The better balanced, more desirable trims with good engine power, offer both trannys.

    The Z06, RX-8, M3, and other pure performers, use the best performing transmissions (Manuals and quicker-adjusting manumatics).

    If you can't drive, what are you doing in a RX-8? It loses 30 HP just because you can't drive!

    Life can be so simple. Am I President yet?

    DrFill
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    I see the option thing as a money making item for the companies. The reason they want you to buy the auto is it make them more money. They are going to steer everyone into the more expensive car. You want the cool options... well then you have to cough up the extra grand for the auto transmission too. Then there is GM who doesn't even offer Manual gearbox's in some of its US cars. I can buy a 5 speed Camry or Accord but not a 5 Speed Impala or Malibu. Yet another reason I do not buy American cars.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    Of course, try and find a manual-shift Camry. Finding little gremlins on the moon is an easier task. But kudos to Honda for keeping manual shift Accords going out to dealerships.

    Now what about the Corvette, as far as the "more expensive option" theory goes? In that car, isn't the manual the extra-cost option? And what about GTO, is it the same?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    Now what about the Corvette, as far as the "more expensive option" theory goes? In that car, isn't the manual the extra-cost option? And what about GTO, is it the same?

    Not sure,Anyone know? but it's the GM thing again I bet
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    will get 6-speed manuals. That tranny is rumored to make it into the Legacy/Outback and Forester, most likely the turbo models. No word yet on whether the WRX will get the 6-speed for '06, but it is getting a 2.5 turbo. :)

    So at least Subaru is listening to those manual tranny fans still out there.

    Bob
  • ronsteveronsteve LooavulMember Posts: 1,075
    Subaru might be listening, but are their dealers listening? Not too long ago I shopped the Impreza Outback Sport, and it's hard to find anything on a Subaru dealer's lot not bearing the letters WRX that actually has a manual.
    2015 Acura RDX AWD / 2013 VW Jetta 2.5SE
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    A dealer will complain that the manuals will sit on the lot for 60 days, because no one buys sticks.

    Then you go over and take a look at the 2 sticks, out of 50 cars he has.

    One is Neon green, and the other is totally base, no ABS, etc.

    Chrysler uses the stick as bait (and switch!), for it's lower price of entry, and higher EPA, but really has no intention of making it a part of the family.

    Too bad, so sad.

    I take this as disrespect. Definitely hurts my interest in the car in question (PT CRuiser, for example).

    DrFill
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    yeah... dealers are a pain. Its all the money game. That is their real reason IMO. Just order your car. It may take a few months but it would be worth it.
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    My local Chrysler rip off agent gets a few manual PT convertibles in. Looks very nice in ivory.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    "Now what about the Corvette, as far as the "more expensive option" theory goes? In that car, isn't the manual the extra-cost option? And what about GTO, is it the same?"

    - nipponoly

    The new 2005 Corvette shares a chassis with the Cadillac XLR but the Cadillac has a 4.6 Northstar DOHC V-8 and is a much different car.

    The Pontiac GTO is really a Holden Monaro which is built in Australia. It is a very nice car, even though it has bland styling. The Holden Monaro doesn't share a chassis with the Corvette.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    whoa! OK, not quite following how your post is a response to mine there. I thought the GTO had the same powertrain as the Corvette (I know it has the LS2 now), but did NOT assume it had the same transmission choices, which is why I was asking. I also did not mention the XLR, which I assume is auto-only, being kind of a "gentlemen's GT". But I checked the Vette comment, and I was remembering it wrong, thank goodness. 6-speed manual is standard, 4-speed auto is optional. :-)

    And you know what else? With this thread in mind, I decided to stop by my friendly Jeep dealer again today - still no manual Libertys in stock, but they did have right up front a Wrangler Rubicon with the 6-speed manual. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    As pudgy as it is.

    Decent looking truck, though. A stick would make it more appealing. And a $21k price tag, well-equipped.

    DrFill
  • saabgirlsaabgirl Member Posts: 184
    I think my dealer said that nearly 40% of Saabs have manuals. My missus and I have nearly identical 9-5s, except mine has the manual and sport exhaust. Last time I pulled into the dealer's garage the service writer said, "Hey, sounds like you need a muffler!" Nope, it's AOK and supposed to sound like that. I enjoy driving with the sound system off to listen to internal combustion, especially when shifting up and down. And on trips it tends to discourage pointless chatter. The effect wouldn't be the same with an automatic.
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    yeah and whats up with the diesel only having auto here in the US...that is stupid.
  • boaz47boaz47 Member Posts: 2,747
    And we can find any number of reasons to praise the manual but truth is people in the US prefer Automatics 3 to one. It is simply pure business. In our state it is the EPA as well. Manuals are not rated as high in the clean department. Can we guess why? Because you can't control the driver and where he shifts. But we all know this and we all wish there was a way to reverse this. I have two manuals and a Automatic. The F-250 is an automatic as are most trucks sold today. The Automatic comes standard on anything with a tow package.

    I have said it before and I believe it will prove to be true that the only hope for the manual is the computer sequencial shift. That way the whole transmission can be under warrentee. The clutch and pressure plate are not covered under most standard warrentee.

    Do I like manuals? Yes. Would I jump ship for a paddle shifter? A real one? In a heart beat. With the move towards traction control and some of the other automatic systems heal and toe may soon become a thing of the past. I read a review on the Porsche GT3 last year and you couldn't heal and toe it because as soon as your foot touched the break it cut back on fuel delivery. There is hope but with every new generation learning to drive on automatics there will be fewer willing to take the time to learn to drive a manual. That will make fewer manuals on the used car lot and the spiral will continue. I can't see how the trend can be reversed. Unless Nippon can take the manufacturer leaders hostage and force them to his will.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    you read my mind! :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    exactly - I think the clutch pedal will eventually disappear... "sports" cars will have paddle shifers..."normal" cars will have autos (or maybe CVTs)

    You have to realize, the opinions of people in this type of forum are a tiny minority out in the real world.. I'd bet 8 or 9 out of 10 people prefer an automatic and can't even drive a stick.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Manuals will be around for as long as I will (at least another 30 years), if not in new cars, used.

    I will ALWAYS have a handshaker. ALWAYS! I will find the last one on Earth, and guard it with my life.

    Because the people are weak, and easily led, changes nothing. My die has been caste.

    Maybe I should start a driving school? I will carry the flag for purist everywhere, and protect the Holy Grail.

    DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    "I'd bet 8 or 9 out of 10 people prefer an automatic and can't even drive a stick."

    I bet you're right. I am in an office of around 100 people. I did a parking lot survey, and couldn't find any stick shifts except my car and one other truck guy like me who also has a stick shift 4Runner. But his other "car" is a motorcycle, so I am not that surprised.

    And this included a couple of sporty cars, including an RSX and a Mustang, both automatic, and a couple of BMW 3-series. Certainly 90% of the cars in our parking lot are offered as a manual, but nary a one of the ones in our lot is so equipped.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    It might take another 20,30 years but I would bet that eventually a car with a clutch will be an anachronism like a roadster with side curtains. It's becoming more and more of a "niche" offering.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    well I just bought a manual because I missed it so much.

    Really the manufacturers are part of the problem when the only stick equiped models will always be the most absolutely stripped model on the floor.

    If you do that with any option or choice, you're going to help kill it as well. Hell my previous car was an auto simply because I couldn't find a stick in the 5-door version at all and the few 3-doors I found where just stripped down completely. I thought I could live with the automatic......just couldn't do it. Finally traded it away.

    The point is they even got me into an automatic (if only for awhile) because of the really, REALLY crappy availability of sticks. I know all they care about is the bottom line, but it does stink.
  • davem2001davem2001 Member Posts: 557
    It's sort of a chicken vs. the egg thing - does the lack of availability drive down demand, or does the lack of demand drive down availability?
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    well in my case, it definetly caused it. I can't imagine I'm the only one that said "Well there's no way I can get this car remotely the way I want with a stick.....so I guess I'll get one of 30 they have the way I want with a slushbox".

    Now I'm certain that the majority of drivers do in fact want automatics, but a good chunk still would like to row their own gears........in a properly equipped car.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Alamogordo, NMMember Posts: 7,677
    must not die!

    Driving an automatic now would be like being forced to listen to Frank Sinatra tunes over and over again, when I have so much classic rock at my easy disposal in cassette tape form. Really!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • shiphroshiphro Member Posts: 62
    I'll have to take your word on the manual vs automatic problems associated with domestic car makers. The last time I seriously considered one of their products it was the Holden GTO which does come w/ a manual. (Although IIRC it didn't initially?)

    I'm proud to say that my car isn't available w/ an automatic in NA. Stick shift it or buy something else :)
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Aha! I'm one that held out .. we searched 4 Ford dealers before we found a ZX5 that had the equipment we wanted and a stick shift .. after driving the automatic version, we just said "no way".

    Of course, now I have the unenviable task of teaching my daughter to drive it ... one school of thought says I just toss her the keys and tell her "go for it" -- albeit in our neighborhood only, so as to avoid the many hills in our town....
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    exactly what I was looking for. I settled for an automatic ZX5 as there was just not one to be found with a stick. I needed the car very soon so I could not just order one I wanted. I *thought* I would be able to suck it up, but as fun as it was in the twisties for being a useful daily driver, the lack of the stick did it in.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    What's funny is that now, 15 months later, we sorta kinda regret not going with the automatic. But, the daughter didn't have her license at the time, so her mother and I were (are) going to drive it.

    Now that she's got her license, I miss my Saturn (V6, leather, heated seats, sunroof, etc.) which she is driving. I'd love to trade back with her, but she's not ready to handle the stick shift.

    Of course, the daughter would love to see us trade in the Focus for a Mini Cooper (silver w/ black roof, CVT transmission).

    Not bloody likely!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,925
    I keep trying to convince myself that the new ATs are good enough to make the switch, but always end up with another stick. I'm honestly not sure what would happen if I switched over to a daily driver with a good AT (like a BMW). I may get slovenly, or I may regret it to no end.

    One thing is, I would get an AT before an SMG type of tranny. I don't particulary trust them, and they seem to have some limitations in normal use. Plus, it wouldn't be the same, so I would likely leave it in auto mode anyway.

    maybe after 25 years, a clutch is so ingrained, its like putting on my glasses in the morning. I just do it without thinking about it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    I have some experience here: the Matrix I bought in '02 was automatic because it had just come out and there were never any manuals in stock anywhere, and I just had to have it.

    My first and last auto EVER, mark my words. The Matrix auto is actually pretty good for a non-tiptronic automatic. It downshifts quickly if you give it more gas, will hold gears all the way to redline if you floor it off the line, and even downshifts on steep downhill stretches to provide a little bit of engine braking.

    It was still so awful that after 18 months it had ruined the experience of the car for me, and I sold it at a loss. There were one or two other little things that bugged me about the car, but certainly not enough to sell it before five years - the automatic was the deciding factor. Ironically, it was a good thing that it was automatic at resale time, because it proved impossible to get a private buyer to pay more than the delaer would on trade, and the dealer said he would have offered at least $1000 less for a stick.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    SMGs don't seem to have mastered the art of upshifting smoothly yet. I haven't either, at least not consistently between first and second gear, but at least I have hope.

    A DSG should be perfect, and if I ever lose my left leg or the ability to move my right arm away from the steering wheel, I'll go for one of those. For now, I like the additional dimension of control that the clutch gives, and keeping all four appendages busy is fun.

    Actually I can see myself going for one if I ever have a long commute in traffic that I can't avoid. They never stall, right? Do they go between neutral and first automatically when you're driving at an almost-stop? Hm, I have to go read up on them.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Is it me, or is the Matrix's steering wheel a part of the guage cluster?

    I drove a Vibe GT (Matrix) when it first came out. 6-speed, of course. Had a grand ole time!

    Went to NY and drove the Matrix XRS. Same.

    Hate the red guages and driving position. Otherwise a great new 'Yota!

    Whenever someone asks me to drive an Auto, I hold up my hand like Fred Sanford ("I can't because of my Authoritise....")

    DrFill

    DrFill
  • fredmcmurrayfredmcmurray Member Posts: 215
    Are manuals really going away? It seems to me that the trend is going the other way, especially in the near luxury sports sedan and coupe segment. Lexus got blasted for bringing out the IS without a manual but brought it in quickly. Infiniti offers it in the G35 and from what I understand there are waiting lists for MT cars. Acura has it in the TSX (not sure about the TL). Even Cadillac is offering manuals now.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,696
    well sort of (regarding the IS). The sportcross didn't get a stick. A deal breaker as I was ready at the time to spend a little more bread than I started out to, but no stick.

    I do like the (current) IS a lot as my friend has one, but Lexus doesn't quite know what to do with that car unfortunately. Sportcross with a stick would have been great.......especially compared to what a 3 series wagon would run you.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Member Posts: 1,280
    Well, stick drivers still control some enthusiast markets like the sport compact one, which is a significant one. But we're losing the exotic sport car market, and in the US midsized sport luxury sedans are starting to not even allow the possibility of manual transmissions.

    But then there's Europe, where all but a few M-B buyers shift by themselves and like it that way. So anyone selling their stuff there has to at least design a manual transmission for their cars...

    I don't know what the situation is in Japan, but they're moving towards automatics too. Fortunately, Honda's still a lot better at manuals.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 45,925
    Japan might be a result of the traffic problems (small place, lots of cars). If all I ever did is drive in stop and go city or b-b highway, I would probably be shiftless tooo.

    The only AT I can even sorta stand are with bigger engines, maybe because they aren't so noticable. 4 cyls, especially higher strung ones, are horrible with AT.

    Worst part (after always being in the wrong gear)? The sound. They all sound funny accelerating in lower gears, and make an unnatural bang sound shifting up.

    Not that I'm shallow or anything...

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

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