The Future Of The Manual Transmission

andres3

fintail said:

IIRC the transmission in my dad's fancy T&C failed about 6 months after he bought it. I am pretty sure it was a known issue in those rigs.

Known issue? I think Chrysler kept independent auto transmission re-builders in business single-handedly!

I remember the shop I took mine to saying "they are still using that old 3-speed!!!!???"

iluvmysephia1

bejaminh - now you know why I fell in love with the 1962 Dodge Dart 440. Thank you for sharing - it's all for the love of the motorcar.

elias

A3, I was a big consumer reports reader for many decades... I don't trust their car reviews at all, but their reliability data are interesting even if glaringly statistically invalid due to the many levels of "self selection" of respondents.

Regarding above post, I suppose I was referring to a previous comment where you implied that you wouldn't buy *another* mopar at gunpoint, so I was wondering which one you did buy before?

In manual transmission news, my better-half bought another one yesterday, making a total of 3 stickshift cars and one slushbox in the household. My 16 year old drives the slushbox (2001 corolla).
The new one is: 2016 Sonic LT stickshift to replace 2012 Camry automatic... Others: 2015 chevy SS sedan. 2005 GTO (with a new water-pump).

stever

Rebellious teen? Or will a MT be a reward for making good grades?

elias

Rebellious only with regard to vehicle transmissions, so far. He did not want to learn stickshift before he was licensed. But maybe soon... His grades couldn't be much better, actually!!! His older brother drives stickshift both in his Chevy Cruze and on big-rigs via his CDL/job. Their sister doesn't like driving, but she did fine with stickshift one day in parking lot... And never tried it again.

stever

Kids.

stickguy

My son was considering learning now, because he was thinking of a GTI or similar. I offered to teach him again!

I am also seriously considering a stick for my next car, especially if used. I miss it. Pretend shifting the RDX just isn't the same.

andres3

elias said:

A3, I was a big consumer reports reader for many decades... I don't trust their car reviews at all, but their reliability data are interesting even if glaringly statistically invalid due to the many levels of "self selection" of respondents.

Regarding above post, I suppose I was referring to a previous comment where you implied that you wouldn't buy *another* mopar at gunpoint, so I was wondering which one you did buy before?

In manual transmission news, my better-half bought another one yesterday, making a total of 3 stickshift cars and one slushbox in the household. My 16 year old drives the slushbox (2001 corolla).
The new one is: 2016 Sonic LT stickshift to replace 2012 Camry automatic... Others: 2015 chevy SS sedan. 2005 GTO (with a new water-pump).

I was sold a '95 Dodge Lemon. Oh wait, they fraudulently named it a Neon (sport trim line), but it was more appropriately and honestly described as a lemon.

That car was enough Mopar for several generations and lifetimes.

elias

Ah yes, A3. Neon. I understand.

stickguy

another issue is the continued trend of only having the stick on lower level or strippo models. And now, without active safety features if you want them. Honda offers stick on a few Civics, but only if you pass on the safety package (lane watch, emergency braking, that kind of stuff). CVT only.

and on the Accord Sport, you get a choice of only 2 colors for some reason.

xwesx

stickguy said:

another issue is the continued trend of only having the stick on lower level or strippo models. And now, without active safety features if you want them. Honda offers stick on a few Civics, but only if you pass on the safety package (lane watch, emergency braking, that kind of stuff). CVT only.

and on the Accord Sport, you get a choice of only 2 colors for some reason.

Well, that's sorta the nature of a manual transmission.... you either want to drive your car, or you want your car to drive for you.

andres3

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

another issue is the continued trend of only having the stick on lower level or strippo models. And now, without active safety features if you want them. Honda offers stick on a few Civics, but only if you pass on the safety package (lane watch, emergency braking, that kind of stuff). CVT only.

and on the Accord Sport, you get a choice of only 2 colors for some reason.

Well, that's sorta the nature of a manual transmission.... you either want to drive your car, or you want your car to drive for you.

I agree, they've probably found a correlation between drivers that want a stick and drivers that consider the see-through windshield their emergency braking feature that comes standard, and more than sufficient for forward collision avoidance.

The limited color choices doesn't make sense, and neither does limiting manual transmissions to stripper models. The days of bargain shoppers choosing manuals is over I think.

andres3

elias said:

A3, I was a big consumer reports reader for many decades... I don't trust their car reviews at all, but their reliability data are interesting even if glaringly statistically invalid due to the many levels of "self selection" of respondents.

Regarding above post, I suppose I was referring to a previous comment where you implied that you wouldn't buy *another* mopar at gunpoint, so I was wondering which one you did buy before?

In manual transmission news, my better-half bought another one yesterday, making a total of 3 stickshift cars and one slushbox in the household. My 16 year old drives the slushbox (2001 corolla).
The new one is: 2016 Sonic LT stickshift to replace 2012 Camry automatic... Others: 2015 chevy SS sedan. 2005 GTO (with a new water-pump).

I've still never heard a coherent argument as to why one car-maker would have more positive or negative self selectors than another. Large sample size would seem to even out any bumps in the data caused by self selection in either the negative or positive direction; at least relative to one another.

stever

The upcoming Honda Civic hatch reportedly will offer a manual transmission option. And it'll be available on all three styles.

nippononly

Checked in recently with my niece, who will be driving in about two years, she is still very interested in my offer to let her have my old Subaru if she learns to drive stick and promises to "stick" with it for a full year...and now her younger sister sounds like she might be interested in the same deal for my Mini in about five years' time, so maybe I can get two of them off on the right track. ;-)

PS disappointed on the Civic - they still only offer the stick on the base trims (and not at all on the four-door any more? I forget)...they can make up for it if they continue their previous strategy of offering the SI in stick shift only...

stickguy

they actually offer it on a higher trim level in the Sedan for 2017 (the EX). The hatch is only on the sport I think (1 level down from the sedan). Annoying to me, because they stopped 1 level below the one that I want! If they would just put power seats in the EX-T, perfect!

xwesx

Excellent; pass on that torch! Even if they end up driving non-manual cars (particularly given the lack of choice with regard to manual offerings) on a regular basis, at least they'll have that foundation!

cdnpinhead

The Forester we're about to buy for my wife is available with a manual in the two lowest trim levels. If it were my vehicle, we'd be buying a Premium with a manual, even if there only three in the country fitted out the way we like, but it's not. She prefers the rubber band transmission, but at least Subaru hasn't completely capituated.

stickguy

my local Sube dealer has 2 or 3 stick Foresters in stock. Just can't get any of the options on them (eyesight, navi, maybe climate?). Still pretty well equipped with the power seat and moonroof.

xwesx

Well, maybe Subaru will still offer a manual on the "Premium" version of the Forester in 2019MY, when they go back to an aesthetically-pleasing body style (historically, Subaru hits every other generation with the ugly stick, so the odds are in my favor on this one!). My wife may very well decide she wants another.

I have pretty much given up and decided that I'm going to get the vehicle I want, transmission be darned, from now on. She's become pretty hardcore about her preference for the manual.

cdnpinhead

I guess I'm aesthetically stunted challenged in that I don't see much difference in the Foresters over the years. Even our recently departed (and much loved) Pathfinder didn't look too different to me from the previous versions -- from the later ones, yes, those are behemoths.

Different strokes. . .

nippononly

Well, maybe Subaru will still offer a manual on the "Premium" version of the Forester in 2019MY

I am worried they will continue to pull back manual availability with every successive generation of each vehicle from now on. The only one I am confident will continue to offer a manual is the WRX (and probably the BRZ I guess), thank goodness.

However, we are already at the point where you can't get even get a moonroof in a Crosstrek if you want the manual, and for the Forester you can't get any of the niceties like Eyesight, leather, or power liftgate that are rapidly becoming merely the norm across the industry, if you want the manual. And it sucks that the "rubber band" is the only option for Legacy/Outback. I had hoped Subaru would hang in there longer as one of the last champions of the manual shift.

stickguy

the one thing I get is not offering eyesight, and Honda the same with the honda sensing. Because of the way it works, I can see not wanting to make it work with a manual. not quite sure how they do auto emergency braking with that. At least I'm sure that is their reason for not offering it, but it makes sense.

be happy that Subaru at least offers it on the premium. I can live with one of those. Too many brands (Honda Civic) stop offering it 1 trim level short of the one I want!

xwesx

Yeah, nanny systems and manual transmissions are often mutually exclusive in that way, which is not necessarily a bad thing! Other options, like leather, moonroof, power liftgate, etc., are not, though. Ultimately, I imagine it is just a cost balance for the manufacturer.

The last year for the manual on Outback (and Legacy?) was MY14, and it was only offered in the base trim. I think they offered it in the lower two trims in MY10 and 11, but dropped it in the mid-level for 12... ? Forester has, at least, been steady in offering it on both X and Premium trim levels since 2009. As nanny tech like Eyesight becomes mandated, though, the writing is on the wall.

PF_Flyer

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thecardoc3

PF_Flyer said:

Are you someone who's trying to find a basic car without all of the complicated new technology?

Just wait till today's robotic marvels are ten year old's. When people who are used to buying older cars because they (usually) cost less and are considered easier to repair are faced with buying what is being built now things are really going to be interesting.

elias

Our new manual transmission chevy cruze diesel flashes a message on the dash every time we turn it off, telling me and my better half to look in the back seat for a baby.

The possibility of a baby in the back seat was a big surprise for us. Now I look often for a baby back there, wondering if there was something else she hadn't told me.

I suppose cars with automatics on the dash or steering wheel should warn about babies maybe being in the back seat too, since babies seem more likely to happen without a shifter in the middle getting in the way.

cdnpinhead

I shouldn't be surprised, I guess, but I am. If that message shows up every time, it won't take long until it's completely ignored. Yet another nanny.

xwesx

cdnpinhead said:

I shouldn't be surprised, I guess, but I am. If that message shows up every time, it won't take long until it's completely ignored. Yet another nanny.

Yes, exactly right.

My Q7 pops up with a message on the dash every time I shut it down, as well as when I first enter it: "Press and hold STOP button to lock steering." My thoughts on that are, "Really? Of all the potentially useful things you could tell me, you settled for that?"