I noticed that, to a minor extent, while we were in Montreal last year! My family was on a long walk through the city, and the streets were lined with parked cars. For a block, I noted the transmission of all these cars, and (I kid you not) 50% were manual! I was quite surprised, especially since many of the "cars" were compact SUVs, such as RAV4 and CR-V.
Granted, this was a tiny sampling, but one would be hard-pressed to find a similar sample along any random street in the US.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
But here again we see the notion that people who want manuals want stripped cars with no options. That is not the case for me - just the opposite. I have bought stripped cars in the past when a cheap commute car was what I wanted, but if I want leather, auto A/C, and nav I will still want a manual transmission. My desire for a manual does not imply that I want four wheels and a motor and nothing else.
There are almost no models where the very top trim is available (indeed standard) with the manual - the WRX comes to mind, and without knowing much about the Corvette I suppose that might be another example (I will never be a buyer in the $50K+ bracket so don't pay much attention to transmission availability in that set!). Will a manual for the top trim be limited to dedicated sports cars only from now on? And on a WRX sidenote, it is gratifying to see the reviews coming in of the WRX CVT, the first auto offered in the WRX in six years, and the general consensus that you want to stay as far away from the CVT as possible.
Note for the xB conversation above: that was and still is a 4-speed auto, much to the disgrace of Toyota Inc in the year 2014! With the old 1.5, that 4-speed auto made the xB one of the slowest vehicles on the road since the death of the Westfalia. With the 2.4 it has had since '08, it is acceptable in acceleration. But then, nobody buys the xB any more, since they screwed up the redesign in '08.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
nipplononly, you will be happy to know that vw offers you most any trims with stickshift... and i hear they've dropped the price of one of the less-contented models golf TDI $2k. you can still get your nav and leather seats. i prefer to omit those two from my option list when ordering/searching-for a vehicle.
not sure what VW they removed/decontented to save the $2k. maybe just the exchange rate lets them lower the price.
in other stickshift news, a good pal o mine had an xB and recently visited after cross-country-drive with his new xD. both stickshift. he liked the xB way better than the xD. he offered to sell me the xD recently, not much interest here. 0.0 interest. same dude has bought a couple cars from me, some of the rare automatic-transmission-cars from my lifetime fleet so far (~30)... a 1996 volvo 855 and a 2005 passat tdi.
Ford also offers a large number of vehicles with manual. You can stack options on top of the cars as much as you want/can afford to after that. I know the upcoming 2015 Mustang will have manual on its top trim model. (note - I personally only like the looks of it, but that's me)
Hahah. Well, one benefit of manuals (now lost) is that you can use the starter to move them even if the vehicle's engine won't run. But, with the brilliant advent of the clutch interlock on the ignition, you cannot engage the starter unless the clutch pedal is fully depressed.
Your tax dollars hard at work!
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
@xwesx said:
Hahah. Well, one benefit of manuals (now lost) is that you can use the starter to move them even if the vehicle's engine won't run. But, with the brilliant advent of the clutch interlock on the ignition, you cannot engage the starter unless the clutch pedal is fully depressed.
Your tax dollars hard at work!
I still remember the time I rented a car in Winnipeg with a manual -- yeah, such things did happen back in '72 or thereabouts. Either way, I drove to my first appointment and couldn't get the thing restarted after I was finished. Called the Tilden office and they asked whether I'd depressed the clutch pedal or not. Probably not, since the car was in neutral. Anyway, that's when I began to understand the nanny-state concept.
I had the opposite problem when I was younger, since I learned on a stick and always drove one. I occasionally forgot to put an AT in park when I did drive one, and it wouldn't start based on that.
@stickguy said:
I had the opposite problem when I was younger, since I learned on a stick and always drove one. I occasionally forgot to put an AT in park when I did drive one, and it wouldn't start based on that.
Hah! Yep, I did that now and again! Well, I should say that I would shut if off while still in gear. It didn't take long to realize my mistake most of the time, though, because the car would roll unless I happened to park on a level surface.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
"a manual gearbox, driven properly, is still the transmission choice with the lowest cost over the long run, Fisher (Jake Fisher, director of auto testing for Consumer Reports) says."
The 2015 Toyota Yaris has undergone some nice new body touches up front, most notable with the "X" design. Have to look more into it. 1.5L engine producing 106 horses with a 5-speed manual tranny available.
Well, I am back in a standard transmission car again. My wife and I were on our way to El Paso in the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS several weeks ago. We were on Highway 54 heading south bound. All of sudden we noticed an awful sound come from the engine area. Our A/C stopped working. The car lost power and we glided to a stop in the 95 degree weather. We had it towed to a repair shop. Verdict: timing chain slipped. Engine shot.
We wanted a 2nd opinion and towed it to the nearest Mitsubishi dealer which also sold Kia's. Verdict: timing chain slipped. Throw another engine in, maybe? They found one with 72,000 miles on it that they were going to charge $3,400 for. Umm...nope.
The car had 129,899 miles on it. We ended up trading it in for a 2011 Kia Soul in white with a 5-speed manual transmission. This is our 3rd Kia - all have had 5-speed sticks. My impressions of the Kia Soul with 35,086 miles on it? I am really enjoying the 5-speed stick! It holds to the road very nicely, the Soul's road manners are fun. The wagon/SUV has just the right amount of room for us, a kickin' stereo with a CD player (2014 Soul's have MP3 technology and don't even have CD players in them any more) and we are sitting up higher than in the Lancer GTS and diggin' it immensely! Great choice for us!
It has been a long time since I last visited here and I see not much has changed. The US market share is still about the same and those who would rather have a manual are still would rather have a manual. My interests have changed somewhat and I put about as many miles on a bicycle every year as I do driving. But just as a side note when I last posted here I had just retired and got a travel trailer pulled by a rather large SUV with a 5.7 V-8 and an automatic because that is the way almost all of them came.
I also used the SUV to take me and some of my club members to cycling events because I could haul more bikes and people than a small car. But finally I decided we had traveled enough and it might be time to look into a small car that maybe even my wife would drive. I researched it a lot and decided on a Honda Fit. Yes the Bike will fit in the back but not with so many club members. Someone else will have to drive. Still spending time at the dealers I noticed that most Honda's were automatic, even though they told me they could get me one if I wanted. However I wanted the Fit sport and if I also wanted Navigation I had to get the auto with paddle shifters.
None of this points to the future on manuals I am sure but there was no real difference in fuel mileage listed by Edmunds or even at the dealer between the manual and the "Shiftable" automatic. And as far as performance goes just how much do I expect from a small car?
But what I do believe has an effect on manuals is how far automatics and CVTs have come fuel mileage wise. I tested several small cars including the Nissan Rouge and the Kia Soul. It was a surprise to me how much I liked the Soul. Might have bought the Soul if they would have tossed in the Hamster suit. But driving any of them back to back with the manual didn't seem to make a great difference. I don't even know if the Nissan comes with a Manual. I was fully expecting to come home with a manual when I tested the Fit but I got a better deal on the Sport with the attendant options and paddle shifters. To be honest I don't even use the paddle shifters all that much but it is kinda of cool to have them there when I want to down shift manually just because. I still believe there will be a few manuals left by the time I can no longer drive but if they continue with the move to Hybrid and EV I think even that number will get smaller and smaller.
"Rairdon's Fiat of Kirkland, Washington, requires all of its salespeople to know how to drive a manual transmission — and teach any customer who wants to learn."
That's a shame, as I assume you had maintained the car by the book. Engine failure at that age and mileage isn't really acceptable today, where many cars are expected to have a service life of about 200K miles and maybe 15-20 years. Did they give you any kind of goodwill value for it?
Funny note about the CD player, too - I have yet to use the one in my car.
The Fiat story is amusing, too - stating that some customers are those who remember the brand 40 years ago. Would those actually be potential customers?
@iluvmysephia1 said:
Well, I am back in a standard transmission car again. My wife and I were on our way to El Paso in the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS several weeks ago. We were on Highway 54 heading south bound. All of sudden we noticed an awful sound come from the engine area. Our A/C stopped working. The car lost power and we glided to a stop in the 95 degree weather. We had it towed to a repair shop. Verdict: timing chain slipped. Engine shot.
Yes, the '08 Lancer GTS I owned had a timing chain, not a timing belt. And yes, I'm disappointed in it's early demise. I did keep it maintained to the best of my ability and recall reading in my Mitsubishi's manual that you need not do any maintenance on your Lancer's timing chain. Slipped and then seized up.Serpentine belt snapped, radiator shot fluid out and about all over the engine, and so on. Catastrophic failure of the engine at freeway speed.
@iluvmysephia1 said:
Yes, the '08 Lancer GTS I owned had a timing chain, not a timing belt...Catastrophic failure of the engine at freeway speed...Ouch!
Bummer! Considering how you weren't at fault, and how you loved your Lancer, I sympathize with you. It was one of those frustrating s--t happens events.
Indeed, hpmctorque. Most of us who've been driving cars for a while have been there before, but its still upsetting when it's underway. Happy with our '11 Kia Soul and will go about maintaining it as best as possible. Timing belt will get changed a tad before the 60,000 mile mark.
Hm, that's a short interval on the Soul's timing belt. The 2014's interval is 72,000 miles - kind of an odd number. I'm used to 105,000 mile intervals.
I changed my Outback's belt early but just on miles - it was overdue on time. And it, like the Soul, was an interference engine. The Quest was non-interference so I just drove it until it broke at 182k.
@stever said:
Hm, that's a short interval on the Soul's timing belt. The 2014's interval is 72,000 miles - kind of an odd number. I'm used to 105,000 mile intervals.
I changed my Outback's belt early but just on miles - it was overdue on time. And it, like the Soul, was an interference engine. The Quest was non-interference so I just drove it until it broke at 182k.
That raises the question about when to change the timing belt on my wife's '07 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0T. It's an interference engine.
The odometer is currently at ~72,500. I forgot what the original factory recommendation was, but the most recent bulletin suggests 110,000, an increase from the original. That seems on the high side, but it's tempting to not change it prematurely, assuming she even keeps the car that long. Of course, if the water pump went we'd change the timing belt at the same time. Any thoughts on when to change the timing belt if the water pump doesn't give out?
hpmctorque - I really need ta break out the Soul's manual and educate myself. I'll find out - but from other people at the Soul Hamsters forum I'm a member at they are saying get the timing belt changed at 60,000 miles. So by and large I need ta change out my 2011 Kia Soul with 37,389 miles on it's timing belt at 60,000 miles.
not sure how it will go, but my 18 YO daughter is supposed to get some more driving time in a stick today. Turns out a bunch of her friends actually drive them. She got a quick drive in one guys mustang (a 90's vintage V6), and her BFF is going to let her drive her old bomber GTI today (that is getting traded in soon for a new one).
she is talking about getting a stick now when I replace the old cars at the end of the summer. Will see if she still feels that way after a little more practice. Her GTI friend will let her practice some more until they get rid of the old one.
so, if she likes it, I may be able to expand my search parameters. Bummer though if so, because I could have pushed the issue when she was first learning, and might still have my 2005 Accord to inherit back if she went stick from the beginning (only reason I sold it was to get an AT for her to drive).
so we shall see if another convert is coming. If so, I can almost guarantee my son (her older brother) will want to do it too when he replaces his Jetta (he really wants a GTI or GLI next, if not something fancier).
@stickguy said:
not sure how it will go, but my 18 YO daughter is supposed to get some more driving time in a stick today. Turns out a bunch of her friends actually drive them. She got a quick drive in one guys mustang (a 90's vintage V6), and her BFF is going to let her drive her old bomber GTI today (that is getting traded in soon for a new one).
she is talking about getting a stick now when I replace the old cars at the end of the summer. Will see if she still feels that way after a little more practice. Her GTI friend will let her practice some more until they get rid of the old one.
Very nice. Always good to have one more leave the dark side. My kids didn't have much choice. If they didn't want to walk they had to drive a stick. Not gonna let the cart get ahead of the horse. Of course now they love it and whenever they see a really nice car they ask me if you can get one with a stick. They are quite disappointed when I say no.
One common timing chain mishap is for the chain guide to break, jamming the chain, or slipping it or breaking it (and the timing case). I've seen cars do this at high mileages.
Are manuals really going away? It seems to me that the trend is going the other way, especially in the near luxury sports sedan and coupe segment. Lexus got blasted for bringing out the IS without a manual but brought it in quickly. Infiniti offers it in the G35 and from what I understand there are waiting lists for MT cars. Acura has it in the TSX (not sure about the TL). Even Cadillac is offering manuals now.
@davidpotter said:
Are manuals really going away? It seems to me that the trend is going the other way, especially in the near luxury sports sedan and coupe segment. Lexus got blasted for bringing out the IS without a manual but brought it in quickly. Infiniti offers it in the G35 and from what I understand there are waiting lists for MT cars. Acura has it in the TSX (not sure about the TL). Even Cadillac is offering manuals now.
It isn't what they offer it is what people buy that shows the demise of the Manual over the years. And as people move to Hybrids and EVs it could get worse. Here we see more manual owners because there are more enthusiasts. But the enthusiasts is a minority in the driving world. Even the people who made this forum for us to discuss the issue have indicated that it is worse than when this subject was first posted. http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html
I don't think as long as we have ICE running our vehicles manuals will cease to exist, they will just hit rock bottom like record players have.
One common timing chain mishap is for the chain guide to break, jamming the chain, or slipping it or breaking it (and the timing case). I've seen cars do this at high mileages.
This might've been what happened with mine, shifty.
I do know that I'm having more fun driving my '11 Kia Soul with the 5-speed stick than I did driving my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with an automatic CVT transmission. I also like sitting up a bit higher, too. Wonder if I would've had a better chance of missing that coyote several months ago on Hwy.70 just west of the Border Patrol station, west of Alamogordo, NM, driving the Soul. I'm thinking I would've reacted better and more quickly and would've missed it.
Yeah, it's kind of sad to see the manual become so rare. My daughter recently turned 16 and I was determined to find her a car with a manual trans. Man was that a chore. Happened to stumble on a loaded '09 Corolla XRS with a 5 speed manual with 9k miles. Yeah it's a Toyota, but it's fun to drive (for a Toyota) and seems rock solid. We'll see how it holds up, hoping it will last her through college. It's taken a months worth of abuse of teaching her how to drive a stick. That's been interesting to say the least.
I'm well-stocked with manuals at my house, so it shouldn't be too hard to teach my youngin's when the time comes. The first car they drive will be my '69 Econoline, though (an automatic). I don't want them making assumptions about driving being easy.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
4 manuals at my house. If my 3 sons want to drive that is their only choice. My 14 year old just got his license and is still getting the hang of manuals, but the older two are pros and much prefer manuals.
@Mr_Shiftright said:
I drove a Honda S2000 for the first time---man, that shifter makes my MINI shifter feel like something I made in shop class when I was 15.
Honda shifters are pretty slick. Miata is supposed to be one of the standards, and while mine has nice short throws and is satisfyingly mechanical, the '13 Accord feels as smooth as silk in comparison. Glides right into gear with almost no effort. In fact if you pause at the gate (with a little pressure) as you are shifting the lever seems to jump from your hand and go into gear.
Speaking of mechanical, I drove my '69 C20 to work today in order to pick up a load of gravel (~3500#). Since I had not used it in nearly a year, I figured I would give it a good cleaning first, inside and out. It sure cleans up nice. I nearly forgot how much I like to drive that truck, but oh how dead the steering feel is!
There's nothing quite like having only three gears from which to choose (in normal driving; it has a Muncie 4-speed) and moving the shifter knob upwards of a foot each time you shift.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I will say that by far the worst shifter I have driven was on a '76 Plymouth Volare wagon (special ordered with a stick). Three on the tree and the linkage would bind every few thousand miles. Had to open the hood and reach down to release the linkage. Super heavy clutch with no feel.
Icing on the cake was manual steering and no air conditioning.
Ironically it would absolutely walk away from other like vehicles since it had no accessories taking power and was a stick.
Honda's claim to fame is the quality of their clutch/shifter combos. I always said if you can't drive a stick Honda, you can't drive stick.
The worst of my modern cars was probably the 1990 legacy Wagon. Vague/rubbery shift, and oddly stiff clutch that was a bear in traffic (unlike the 1991 626 we also had that could stop and go all day).
My Miata (a 2001) was quite a bit different than the FWD cable linkages of course. But still notchy (maybe not the best word) but certainly short throws and very "click/click".
Dudley, I had a Hornet that was well used with a 3 on the floor, but when you shifted the column sleeve also moved. and occasionally that would bind and you had to go under the hood to free it. pretty sure it started as 3 on the tree and someone converted it before i got it.
Comments
I noticed that, to a minor extent, while we were in Montreal last year! My family was on a long walk through the city, and the streets were lined with parked cars. For a block, I noted the transmission of all these cars, and (I kid you not) 50% were manual! I was quite surprised, especially since many of the "cars" were compact SUVs, such as RAV4 and CR-V.
Granted, this was a tiny sampling, but one would be hard-pressed to find a similar sample along any random street in the US.
Montreal especially has a somewhat European vibe when it comes to cars - lots of Yaris and similar there, too.
Of course, go to the real Europe, and it's probably still 75% manual.
But here again we see the notion that people who want manuals want stripped cars with no options. That is not the case for me - just the opposite. I have bought stripped cars in the past when a cheap commute car was what I wanted, but if I want leather, auto A/C, and nav I will still want a manual transmission. My desire for a manual does not imply that I want four wheels and a motor and nothing else.
There are almost no models where the very top trim is available (indeed standard) with the manual - the WRX comes to mind, and without knowing much about the Corvette I suppose that might be another example (I will never be a buyer in the $50K+ bracket so don't pay much attention to transmission availability in that set!). Will a manual for the top trim be limited to dedicated sports cars only from now on? And on a WRX sidenote, it is gratifying to see the reviews coming in of the WRX CVT, the first auto offered in the WRX in six years, and the general consensus that you want to stay as far away from the CVT as possible.
Note for the xB conversation above: that was and still is a 4-speed auto, much to the disgrace of Toyota Inc in the year 2014! With the old 1.5, that 4-speed auto made the xB one of the slowest vehicles on the road since the death of the Westfalia. With the 2.4 it has had since '08, it is acceptable in acceleration. But then, nobody buys the xB any more, since they screwed up the redesign in '08.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
nipplononly, you will be happy to know that vw offers you most any trims with stickshift... and i hear they've dropped the price of one of the less-contented models golf TDI $2k. you can still get your nav and leather seats. i prefer to omit those two from my option list when ordering/searching-for a vehicle.
not sure what VW they removed/decontented to save the $2k. maybe just the exchange rate lets them lower the price.
in other stickshift news, a good pal o mine had an xB and recently visited after cross-country-drive with his new xD. both stickshift. he liked the xB way better than the xD. he offered to sell me the xD recently, not much interest here. 0.0 interest. same dude has bought a couple cars from me, some of the rare automatic-transmission-cars from my lifetime fleet so far (~30)... a 1996 volvo 855 and a 2005 passat tdi.
Ford also offers a large number of vehicles with manual. You can stack options on top of the cars as much as you want/can afford to after that. I know the upcoming 2015 Mustang will have manual on its top trim model. (note - I personally only like the looks of it, but that's me)
I think MINI offers manual trans all across the board.
Woman Stalls New Stick Shift, Hit by Train
This publicity won't be good to encourage people to learn to drive a stick!
Hahah. Well, one benefit of manuals (now lost) is that you can use the starter to move them even if the vehicle's engine won't run. But, with the brilliant advent of the clutch interlock on the ignition, you cannot engage the starter unless the clutch pedal is fully depressed.
Your tax dollars hard at work!
I still remember the time I rented a car in Winnipeg with a manual -- yeah, such things did happen back in '72 or thereabouts. Either way, I drove to my first appointment and couldn't get the thing restarted after I was finished. Called the Tilden office and they asked whether I'd depressed the clutch pedal or not. Probably not, since the car was in neutral. Anyway, that's when I began to understand the nanny-state concept.
I had the opposite problem when I was younger, since I learned on a stick and always drove one. I occasionally forgot to put an AT in park when I did drive one, and it wouldn't start based on that.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Hah! Yep, I did that now and again! Well, I should say that I would shut if off while still in gear. It didn't take long to realize my mistake most of the time, though, because the car would roll unless I happened to park on a level surface.
"a manual gearbox, driven properly, is still the transmission choice with the lowest cost over the long run, Fisher (Jake Fisher, director of auto testing for Consumer Reports) says."
http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1092300_your-next-vehicle-is-more-likely-to-have-a-cvt-heres-why/page-2
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Interesting article. Thanks for posting it.
$3500 transmission rebuilds on your 6+ speed automatics are a real disaster to your finances when it happens.
The 2015 Toyota Yaris has undergone some nice new body touches up front, most notable with the "X" design. Have to look more into it. 1.5L engine producing 106 horses with a 5-speed manual tranny available.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Well, I am back in a standard transmission car again. My wife and I were on our way to El Paso in the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS several weeks ago. We were on Highway 54 heading south bound. All of sudden we noticed an awful sound come from the engine area. Our A/C stopped working. The car lost power and we glided to a stop in the 95 degree weather. We had it towed to a repair shop. Verdict: timing chain slipped. Engine shot.
We wanted a 2nd opinion and towed it to the nearest Mitsubishi dealer which also sold Kia's. Verdict: timing chain slipped. Throw another engine in, maybe? They found one with 72,000 miles on it that they were going to charge $3,400 for. Umm...nope.
The car had 129,899 miles on it. We ended up trading it in for a 2011 Kia Soul in white with a 5-speed manual transmission. This is our 3rd Kia - all have had 5-speed sticks. My impressions of the Kia Soul with 35,086 miles on it? I am really enjoying the 5-speed stick! It holds to the road very nicely, the Soul's road manners are fun. The wagon/SUV has just the right amount of room for us, a kickin' stereo with a CD player (2014 Soul's have MP3 technology and don't even have CD players in them any more) and we are sitting up higher than in the Lancer GTS and diggin' it immensely! Great choice for us!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
@iluvmysephia1, major bummer about the Mitsu.
Love the Soul and that's my color.
It has been a long time since I last visited here and I see not much has changed. The US market share is still about the same and those who would rather have a manual are still would rather have a manual. My interests have changed somewhat and I put about as many miles on a bicycle every year as I do driving. But just as a side note when I last posted here I had just retired and got a travel trailer pulled by a rather large SUV with a 5.7 V-8 and an automatic because that is the way almost all of them came.
I also used the SUV to take me and some of my club members to cycling events because I could haul more bikes and people than a small car. But finally I decided we had traveled enough and it might be time to look into a small car that maybe even my wife would drive. I researched it a lot and decided on a Honda Fit. Yes the Bike will fit in the back but not with so many club members. Someone else will have to drive. Still spending time at the dealers I noticed that most Honda's were automatic, even though they told me they could get me one if I wanted. However I wanted the Fit sport and if I also wanted Navigation I had to get the auto with paddle shifters.
None of this points to the future on manuals I am sure but there was no real difference in fuel mileage listed by Edmunds or even at the dealer between the manual and the "Shiftable" automatic. And as far as performance goes just how much do I expect from a small car?
But what I do believe has an effect on manuals is how far automatics and CVTs have come fuel mileage wise. I tested several small cars including the Nissan Rouge and the Kia Soul. It was a surprise to me how much I liked the Soul. Might have bought the Soul if they would have tossed in the Hamster suit.
But driving any of them back to back with the manual didn't seem to make a great difference. I don't even know if the Nissan comes with a Manual. I was fully expecting to come home with a manual when I tested the Fit but I got a better deal on the Sport with the attendant options and paddle shifters. To be honest I don't even use the paddle shifters all that much but it is kinda of cool to have them there when I want to down shift manually just because. I still believe there will be a few manuals left by the time I can no longer drive but if they continue with the move to Hybrid and EV I think even that number will get smaller and smaller.
"Rairdon's Fiat of Kirkland, Washington, requires all of its salespeople to know how to drive a manual transmission — and teach any customer who wants to learn."
Rairdon's Fiat of Kirkland Offers Shoppers Free Stick-Shift Lessons
Hopefully on a car they've already purchased.
That's a shame, as I assume you had maintained the car by the book. Engine failure at that age and mileage isn't really acceptable today, where many cars are expected to have a service life of about 200K miles and maybe 15-20 years. Did they give you any kind of goodwill value for it?
Funny note about the CD player, too - I have yet to use the one in my car.
The Fiat story is amusing, too - stating that some customers are those who remember the brand 40 years ago. Would those actually be potential customers?
Sorry about your Lancer and congratulations on the Soul.
Was it a timing chain or belt? Was it the original? As I understand it, timing chains generally don't need to be replaced.
he said chain slipped My guess is that it stretched enough to jump a gear? Unless of course some other part (tensioner?) let go.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
That's not as common as a timing belt failure, but it does happen. What I was really asking is confirmation that the Lancer has a timing chain.
Yes, the '08 Lancer GTS I owned had a timing chain, not a timing belt. And yes, I'm disappointed in it's early demise. I did keep it maintained to the best of my ability and recall reading in my Mitsubishi's manual that you need not do any maintenance on your Lancer's timing chain. Slipped and then seized up.Serpentine belt snapped, radiator shot fluid out and about all over the engine, and so on. Catastrophic failure of the engine at freeway speed.
Ouch!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Bummer! Considering how you weren't at fault, and how you loved your Lancer, I sympathize with you. It was one of those frustrating s--t happens events.
Indeed, hpmctorque. Most of us who've been driving cars for a while have been there before, but its still upsetting when it's underway. Happy with our '11 Kia Soul and will go about maintaining it as best as possible. Timing belt will get changed a tad before the 60,000 mile mark.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Hm, that's a short interval on the Soul's timing belt. The 2014's interval is 72,000 miles - kind of an odd number. I'm used to 105,000 mile intervals.
I changed my Outback's belt early but just on miles - it was overdue on time. And it, like the Soul, was an interference engine. The Quest was non-interference so I just drove it until it broke at 182k.
Interference engine puts more stress on you ta get 'er done. I don't really need ta get it done before 60,000 miles, I spose.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
That raises the question about when to change the timing belt on my wife's '07 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0T. It's an interference engine.
The odometer is currently at ~72,500. I forgot what the original factory recommendation was, but the most recent bulletin suggests 110,000, an increase from the original. That seems on the high side, but it's tempting to not change it prematurely, assuming she even keeps the car that long. Of course, if the water pump went we'd change the timing belt at the same time. Any thoughts on when to change the timing belt if the water pump doesn't give out?
What interval does Kia recommend?
hpmctorque - I really need ta break out the Soul's manual and educate myself. I'll find out - but from other people at the Soul Hamsters forum I'm a member at they are saying get the timing belt changed at 60,000 miles. So by and large I need ta change out my 2011 Kia Soul with 37,389 miles on it's timing belt at 60,000 miles.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
not sure how it will go, but my 18 YO daughter is supposed to get some more driving time in a stick today. Turns out a bunch of her friends actually drive them. She got a quick drive in one guys mustang (a 90's vintage V6), and her BFF is going to let her drive her old bomber GTI today (that is getting traded in soon for a new one).
she is talking about getting a stick now when I replace the old cars at the end of the summer. Will see if she still feels that way after a little more practice. Her GTI friend will let her practice some more until they get rid of the old one.
so, if she likes it, I may be able to expand my search parameters. Bummer though if so, because I could have pushed the issue when she was first learning, and might still have my 2005 Accord to inherit back if she went stick from the beginning (only reason I sold it was to get an AT for her to drive).
so we shall see if another convert is coming. If so, I can almost guarantee my son (her older brother) will want to do it too when he replaces his Jetta (he really wants a GTI or GLI next, if not something fancier).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Very nice. Always good to have one more leave the dark side. My kids didn't have much choice. If they didn't want to walk they had to drive a stick. Not gonna let the cart get ahead of the horse. Of course now they love it and whenever they see a really nice car they ask me if you can get one with a stick. They are quite disappointed when I say no.
One common timing chain mishap is for the chain guide to break, jamming the chain, or slipping it or breaking it (and the timing case). I've seen cars do this at high mileages.
Are manuals really going away? It seems to me that the trend is going the other way, especially in the near luxury sports sedan and coupe segment. Lexus got blasted for bringing out the IS without a manual but brought it in quickly. Infiniti offers it in the G35 and from what I understand there are waiting lists for MT cars. Acura has it in the TSX (not sure about the TL). Even Cadillac is offering manuals now.
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It isn't what they offer it is what people buy that shows the demise of the Manual over the years. And as people move to Hybrids and EVs it could get worse. Here we see more manual owners because there are more enthusiasts. But the enthusiasts is a minority in the driving world. Even the people who made this forum for us to discuss the issue have indicated that it is worse than when this subject was first posted. http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/five-myths-about-stick-shifts.html
I don't think as long as we have ICE running our vehicles manuals will cease to exist, they will just hit rock bottom like record players have.
One common timing chain mishap is for the chain guide to break, jamming the chain, or slipping it or breaking it (and the timing case). I've seen cars do this at high mileages.
This might've been what happened with mine, shifty.
I do know that I'm having more fun driving my '11 Kia Soul with the 5-speed stick than I did driving my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with an automatic CVT transmission. I also like sitting up a bit higher, too. Wonder if I would've had a better chance of missing that coyote several months ago on Hwy.70 just west of the Border Patrol station, west of Alamogordo, NM, driving the Soul. I'm thinking I would've reacted better and more quickly and would've missed it.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Yeah, it's kind of sad to see the manual become so rare. My daughter recently turned 16 and I was determined to find her a car with a manual trans. Man was that a chore. Happened to stumble on a loaded '09 Corolla XRS with a 5 speed manual with 9k miles. Yeah it's a Toyota, but it's fun to drive (for a Toyota) and seems rock solid. We'll see how it holds up, hoping it will last her through college. It's taken a months worth of abuse of teaching her how to drive a stick. That's been interesting to say the least.
I'm well-stocked with manuals at my house, so it shouldn't be too hard to teach my youngin's when the time comes. The first car they drive will be my '69 Econoline, though (an automatic). I don't want them making assumptions about driving being easy.
4 manuals at my house. If my 3 sons want to drive that is their only choice. My 14 year old just got his license and is still getting the hang of manuals, but the older two are pros and much prefer manuals.
I drove a Honda S2000 for the first time---man, that shifter makes my MINI shifter feel like something I made in shop class when I was 15.
1 of 3 (soon to be 1 of 2) cars in my house is a stick
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Honda shifters are pretty slick. Miata is supposed to be one of the standards, and while mine has nice short throws and is satisfyingly mechanical, the '13 Accord feels as smooth as silk in comparison. Glides right into gear with almost no effort. In fact if you pause at the gate (with a little pressure) as you are shifting the lever seems to jump from your hand and go into gear.
Speaking of mechanical, I drove my '69 C20 to work today in order to pick up a load of gravel (~3500#). Since I had not used it in nearly a year, I figured I would give it a good cleaning first, inside and out. It sure cleans up nice. I nearly forgot how much I like to drive that truck, but oh how dead the steering feel is!
There's nothing quite like having only three gears from which to choose (in normal driving; it has a Muncie 4-speed) and moving the shifter knob upwards of a foot each time you shift.
I will say that by far the worst shifter I have driven was on a '76 Plymouth Volare wagon (special ordered with a stick). Three on the tree and the linkage would bind every few thousand miles. Had to open the hood and reach down to release the linkage. Super heavy clutch with no feel.
Icing on the cake was manual steering and no air conditioning.
Ironically it would absolutely walk away from other like vehicles since it had no accessories taking power and was a stick.
Honda's claim to fame is the quality of their clutch/shifter combos. I always said if you can't drive a stick Honda, you can't drive stick.
The worst of my modern cars was probably the 1990 legacy Wagon. Vague/rubbery shift, and oddly stiff clutch that was a bear in traffic (unlike the 1991 626 we also had that could stop and go all day).
My Miata (a 2001) was quite a bit different than the FWD cable linkages of course. But still notchy (maybe not the best word) but certainly short throws and very "click/click".
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Dudley, I had a Hornet that was well used with a 3 on the floor, but when you shifted the column sleeve also moved. and occasionally that would bind and you had to go under the hood to free it. pretty sure it started as 3 on the tree and someone converted it before i got it.
yeah, I drove a lot of crap back in the old days!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I learned stick on a '57 Chevy, 3 on the tree. Never liked those cars since.
The VW Bugs always had good sticks, but I really liked the 5 speed in my Tercel.
Best shifter/clutch combo I ever had was my '82 Accord hatchback 5-speed.
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