Mystery car pix

andys120

fintail said:

I think it's a 64.

I checked it out, they are similar but you're right, that's a '64 Ford and I think the Caddy's a '64 also as is the red Mopar (Dodge?) sedan parked at the top by the fence

fintail

What's the blue car to the left of the Hillman, ~65 Chevy perhaps?

andys120

stickguy

AMC Eagle. A car ahead of it's time.

fintail

Seattle:

stickguy

that a Renault on the right?

Place looks a little expanded since then.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/11266+Riviera+Pl+NE,+Seattle,+WA+98125/@47.7117004,-122.276799,3a,75y,108.8h,92.88t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1ssK6UTWOaNLXa1uhtSwy81A!2e0!6s//geo2.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid=sK6UTWOaNLXa1uhtSwy81A&output=thumbnail&cb_client=search.gws-prod.gps&thumb=2&w=86&h=86&yaw=109.75106&pitch=0&thumbfov=100!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x549013d170076eb5:0xd791c83f62bc3b2e!8m2!3d47.7116843!4d-122.2766561

fintail

Yep on the Renault. That garage and above area is new, but go to the right and the small house part appears almost only slightly altered by 60 years of time.

The city plate on the car is very unusual, I've never seen one of those.

omarman

fintail

Cool pic. I have seen the old WSP plates, pic must be from 1962.

omarman

Soon as I saw this pic my eyes were drawn to that 1958 Ford back row on the left. Spotlight implies police interceptor. Maybe with the 352/300hp interceptor engine.

Not sure why I like those cars except that 1958 must have been some kind of record for unforgettable styling.

fintail

Simple and elegant compared to a 58 Oldsmobuick.

I recall seeing a blue and white 58 Country Sedan back when my dad had his 60, which also had a 352. It was slumbering in a carport at a house off an old state highway. My dad stopped by to ask about it, owner was talkative but "I'm gonna restore it someday" (almost quaint to think there was a time when one would knock on a door without real hesitation). The fake hood scoop is a nice touch.

I assumed the car in the Seattle pic was a city fleet car with the smallest I6 available.

fintail

In the WSP pic looks like new 62 Mercuries and a 62 Pontiac. Maybe a 58 Plymouth at right.

fintail

Utrecht taxi stand is diverse:

stickguy

nose of a Ponton on the right?

omarman

The fake hood scoop and the target sight on the grill! We never had a '58 but mom and dad bought a '59 Galaxie which was okay but a serious ruster.

I assumed the car in the Seattle pic was a city fleet car with the smallest I6 available.
Interesting fleet that the WSP had in 1962. I feel like there just had to be some road testing by the state troopers - strictly in the interest of science and safety and all that.

A '62 Mercury could have been ordered with the 375hp 390 police interceptor. Not sure about the others in the pic. But there had to be some curiosity among the rank and file about which was the best or fastest in the fleet.

fintail

Where the 60 Ford had the gun sights at the corners of the front fenders. I recall my mom thought those were amusing.

No doubt some WSP guys were enthusiasts and put those cars to the test. I wonder if the Chrysler was a 413 or 426.

fintail

Yep that's right.

stickguy said:

nose of a Ponton on the right?

andys120

fintail said:

Utrecht taxi stand is diverse:

Wow, a '57 Chevy and a '61 Chevy doing taxi duty in Holland! I'm at a loss to identify the taxi
between the '57 and the Ponton. Ford Taunus perhaps?

ab348

The rear end shot of that taxi generated a thought I haven't had in a while, namely, "I have never seen that before and have no idea what kind of car it is".

ab348

omarman said:

The fake hood scoop and the target sight on the grill! We never had a '58 but mom and dad bought a '59 Galaxie which was okay but a serious ruster.

I assumed the car in the Seattle pic was a city fleet car with the smallest I6 available.
Interesting fleet that the WSP had in 1962. I feel like there just had to be some road testing by the state troopers - strictly in the interest of science and safety and all that.

A '62 Mercury could have been ordered with the 375hp 390 police interceptor. Not sure about the others in the pic. But there had to be some curiosity among the rank and file about which was the best or fastest in the fleet.

I always thought the '58 Ford styling took a step backwards from the '57. The flat stamped sheetmetal grille just looked cheap and the taillight treatment was awkward IMO.

Ford was at a disadvantage for highway patrol use with the 390 being their biggest engine in the early '60s. They had other larger engines that were developed for use in Lincoln and Mercury models but they didn't seem to want to offer them in Fords. The 390 always seemed to be a step behind the engines available from other makes. Once the 427 came along for '63 that finally changed.

stickguy

If it is Holland, maybe some kind of DAF?

magnette

That Utrecht taxi is a Prince or possibly a Nissan, I think. Something Japanese anyway.

EDIT - Actually it might be possibly both - sort of.

Nissan took over Prince and I think the last Prince Gloria was restyled as a Nissan Gloria which from the front looked a bit like a Lancia Flaminia - possibly Farina influenced?

I have never seen a picture of the back of the Nissan Gloria so don't know if the distinctive lights on the top of the rear wings are a feature, but that's my guess.

magnette

That Hillman Estate car is now pretty much extinct here, I can't recall having seen one for years.
We still have a few Huskies around, I've seen them at car shows but not the Minx - with four doors. Strangly although clearly based on the Minx car it was marketed here for its early years as "Hillman Estate Car" I think and had Hillman badges but no mention of Minx initially.

Even rarer then was the related Singer Gazelle Estate Car, which was offered for a few years with better trim etc. I think that went extinct by the seventies as I cannot recall having seen one since then.

ab348

magnette said:

I have never seen a picture of the back of the Nissan Gloria so don't know if the distinctive lights on the top of the rear wings are a feature, but that's my guess.

I've just searched every variation of the name I can think of and found no image of the rear end of any car with those wedge-shaped taillights. Very mysterious indeed!

magnette

I the I may have been wrong about Farina - Michelloti styled a Prince Skyline coupe .

omarman

ab348 said:

omarman said:

The fake hood scoop and the target sight on the grill! We never had a '58 but mom and dad bought a '59 Galaxie which was okay but a serious ruster.

I assumed the car in the Seattle pic was a city fleet car with the smallest I6 available.
Interesting fleet that the WSP had in 1962. I feel like there just had to be some road testing by the state troopers - strictly in the interest of science and safety and all that.

A '62 Mercury could have been ordered with the 375hp 390 police interceptor. Not sure about the others in the pic. But there had to be some curiosity among the rank and file about which was the best or fastest in the fleet.

I always thought the '58 Ford styling took a step backwards from the '57. The flat stamped sheetmetal grille just looked cheap and the taillight treatment was awkward IMO.

Ford was at a disadvantage for highway patrol use with the 390 being their biggest engine in the early '60s. They had other larger engines that were developed for use in Lincoln and Mercury models but they didn't seem to want to offer them in Fords. The 390 always seemed to be a step behind the engines available from other makes. Once the 427 came along for '63 that finally changed.

Referring again to that 1962 WSP picture with various brands in their fleet, I'd like to find some surviving documentation comparing pursuit vehicles from back in the day. There's a lot of anecdotes and distant memories but test data comparisons would be fun to look at!

IIRC in '63 my dad bought a '64 Ford Galaxie 390 Police Interceptor at Walker and Battat Ford. When my oldest brother graduated HS in '65 dad let him buy the car but it was demolished in an accident later that year. All that's left of the car are the memories. I don't believe we even had a picture of that car but I'll ask my brother about it.

My dad had previously owned and driven fast cars during that post war era. And his Hudson Hornet had been his favorite until he bought that Police Interceptor.

RE: Ford was at a disadvantage for highway patrol use with the 390 being their biggest engine in the early '60s.

Ford produced bigger M-E-L engines such as the 430 for upscale Mercury, Edsel and Lincoln lines. There was a rare option called Super Marauder for the 430 which included 3x2bbl carbs which was rated at 400hp. There was also a rare 3x2bbl option for the 390 in 1961 and 1962 rated at 401 horsepower.

But cop cars need cheap speed.

In 1962 a Ford 390 Police Interceptor was rated at 330hp and not at a disadvantage on any public road. If we are talking about the drag strip in the 60s that's a different story! It seemed like Mopar put everybody on the trailer.


RE: Once the 427 came along for '63 that finally changed.

Are we switching from police pursuit vehicles to racing again? Just wanted to remind that there was a 428 Police Interceptor FE block engine which was rated at 360 hp and offered from 1966 to 1970(?). The 390 was still available along side the 428 too. Never saw the 427 in a Police Interceptor vehicle but anything is possible.

Again the need for cheap speed would dictate a lot of the option packages for pursuit vehicles. Still fun stuff for me anyway after all these years. Even though we now live in a time where the typical commuter vehicle can humble the old school pursuit vehicles.

fintail

Mystery car in Utrecht is an Isuzu Bellel. These were often diesel, probably the case of this taxi. Believe it or not, they were also sold on this side of the pond, no doubt in minuscule numbers. One popped up on local CL as a barnfind a few years ago.

fintail

If it's Friday, this must be Belgium (in 1980, no Ian McShane):

stickguy

A GTI and a beetle with wind surfers on top. Don’t see that over here!

ab348

omarman said:

Referring again to that 1962 WSP picture with various brands in their fleet, I'd like to find some surviving documentation comparing pursuit vehicles from back in the day. There's a lot of anecdotes and distant memories but test data comparisons would be fun to look at!

IIRC in '63 my dad bought a '64 Ford Galaxie 390 Police Interceptor at Walker and Battat Ford. When my oldest brother graduated HS in '65 dad let him buy the car but it was demolished in an accident later that year. All that's left of the car are the memories. I don't believe we even had a picture of that car but I'll ask my brother about it.

My dad had previously owned and driven fast cars during that post war era. And his Hudson Hornet had been his favorite until he bought that Police Interceptor.

RE: Ford was at a disadvantage for highway patrol use with the 390 being their biggest engine in the early '60s.

Ford produced bigger M-E-L engines such as the 430 for upscale Mercury, Edsel and Lincoln lines. There was a rare option called Super Marauder for the 430 which included 3x2bbl carbs which was rated at 400hp. There was also a rare 3x2bbl option for the 390 in 1961 and 1962 rated at 401 horsepower.

But cop cars need cheap speed.

In 1962 a Ford 390 Police Interceptor was rated at 330hp and not at a disadvantage on any public road. If we are talking about the drag strip in the 60s that's a different story! It seemed like Mopar put everybody on the trailer.


RE: Once the 427 came along for '63 that finally changed.

Are we switching from police pursuit vehicles to racing again? Just wanted to remind that there was a 428 Police Interceptor FE block engine which was rated at 360 hp and offered from 1966 to 1970(?). The 390 was still available along side the 428 too. Never saw the 427 in a Police Interceptor vehicle but anything is possible.

Again the need for cheap speed would dictate a lot of the option packages for pursuit vehicles. Still fun stuff for me anyway after all these years. Even though we now live in a time where the typical commuter vehicle can humble the old school pursuit vehicles.

I was never talking about racing so I don't know where that came from. I also commented on the larger Lincoln and Mercury engines. Ford clearly built bigger engines in that era than the 390. But they were not offered in Ford models.

I was referring mostly to the CHP tests which are one of the few benchmarks we have historically for highway patrol use. They were pretty much exclusively a Mopar fleet with the exception of going with Olds for 1967 with the excellent 425 V-8 and Mercury for 1970, which I believe used the 428.

magnette

I always forget the Isuzu as we didn't get those here.
Having said that we didn't get the Prince or any large Nissans until about 1968 or so either.

magnette

Next to the windsurfer Beetle is a Mitsubishi Sapporo and past the empty space is a silver Fiat 132 although later that was renamed the Argenta, so it might be one of those possibly.

omarman

The Ford FE block 427 side-oiler and top-oiler was/is legendary in changing the world of racing! Later developments produced the 427 Cammer.

And the world that watched racing history being made then, now watches the movies made about it!

So you were not talking about the Ford 427 in terms of racing?

One more thing. Ford clearly put 430 cubic inch MEL engines (bigger than the 390 FE block) in Ford Thunderbirds. Here's one now.

"Original J-code series 430ci, automatic, 49k miles."

ab348

I was talking about 427s being listed in the Ford big-car catalog for the first time in 1963, so presumably police agencies could order it for their use. Along the same lines I am unaware of any police agencies using Squarebirds as highway patrol cars.

fintail

Good call on the Fiat and Mitsu. I kind of like the latter, those were sold here as Dodge/Plymouth captive imports,

A few others in the shot shouldn't be too difficult, either.

magnette said:

Next to the windsurfer Beetle is a Mitsubishi Sapporo and past the empty space is a silver Fiat 132 although later that was renamed the Argenta, so it might be one of those possibly.

omarman

Please post any link or other info regarding a Ford 427 "highway patrol car."

I just want to see it because I've never heard of that before.

I don't know if Ford put the 430 MEL engine in other Ford models, but the Thunderbird was for sale and the link was handy!

ab348

omarman said:

Please post any link or other info regarding a Ford 427 "highway patrol car."

As I said all I know is that it is listed in the sales catalog for the public. I would think police agencies could order it if desired.

magnette

Back in the car park with the windsurfers the red car in the distance and the light blue car with the black roof are both Opel Asconas - I think the second generation version which was known as the Ascona B.

fintail

Yep, I was thinking Asconas too. Beside the big Fiat is an Audi C2, also a MB W114/115 and Escort at left, and of course the Renault 4 at lower right.

And that yellow "batmobile" T-Bird is pretty fantastic. Seldom see that color.

Dijon, mid 60s, most of these shouldn't be too tough:

andys120

I'll call out the blue-grey Renault 4CV in the row facing the scooters and motorbikes. It's sandwiched between a pair of Pug 403s, an ivory one to its right and a black one on its left.
Going by them is a Citroen 2CV.

bhill2

I'll point out the pretty yellow MB 'vert next to the plaza on the left. Oh, and the distinctive profile of a DS 19/21 two down from it.

fintail

Good spotting, as it is France, a very proud market, most cars are French and of a few specific models. Not the most diverse pic, but I had it ready.

MB cabrio is easily the most chic thing there, an expensive car even then. There's also a black fintail kind of across from it.

Should be easy - styles of the time:

omarman

Any color you want as long as it's ...that. Hello 1970!

bhill2

Yup, an Olds Rallye 350. I knew they existed, but I don't know why.

ab348

The Rallye 350 was a response to insurance companies jacking up rates on big-engine muscle cars in 1969/70. So it looked like an Olds go-fast muscle machine and went a little further with urethane-covered painted bumpers, rear wing, bright yellow paint and unique graphics, but only had the cooking-variety 350 V-8 available.

andys120

In the picture from Dijon at the bottom center, a light blue VW 1200 (AKA Beetle) and a two-tone Simca Aronde, the best selling French car of the 1950s but unknown on these shores.

fintail

These used cars are more than just "OK":

ab348

Such a great logo.

The black late '20s/early '30s 2-door in front of the building seems old even for 1960.

sda

When whitewalls were whitewalls.

ab348

The Woodill Wildfire that was pictured here earlier in the week is today's Hemmings Find of the Day:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2020/03/14/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1954-woodill-wildfire/