Mystery car pix

fintail

I was gonna say, that car was the bad guy's car in a Herbie movie.

But, I don't recall what it is.

stephen987

In the movie, it was called the "Thorndyke Special."

andys120

wgrafer

1953 Cadillac ambulance-looks like body by Superior (which as I recall was the most prevalent ambulance/hearse builder).

stephen987

Any takers on #23136?

Mr_Shiftright

That an Apollo GT with the crummy Buick engine. Intermeccanica made these bodies, and when Apollo folded, they made a deal with a firm in Texas to sell the car as a Vetta Ventura (same body). I actually met designer Milt Brown (very nice man) and have seen a few Apollos. There aren't many around--I think they couldn't have made more than 100 Apollos + Venturas.

andys120

texases

New BMW X1 - as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm looking forward to a test drive, it may be one of the few BMWs I fit in. It is way better looking than the current X3, IMHO.

ateixeira

BMW X1, due here next summer.

With an auto trans only. My friend is bummed, she wants to trade her X3 for one of those but wants a manual.

stephen987

Quite correct, Shifty. Not sure if this one has the "really crummy Buick engine" (the 300-ci Apollo 5000) or the "slighly less crummy Buick engine (the aluminum 215-ci Apollo 3500). The latter, of course, later became the Rover/MG/Triumph TR8/Morgan Plus Eight/TVR Tasmin/[insert British specialty car here] V8.

stickguy

Oops. button challenged today.

Anyway, after reading the review, I want one. And I would love the deisel 2.0l 4 they tested it with.

Wold be perfect for my next car other than the pesky issue of paying for it.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I guess the millions Rover spent to make a mediocre engine out of it was in fact cheaper than developing a brand new V8, or attempting to use the even more dreadful Triumph Stag V8 or the Rolls engine. I know there was also a V8 in this poisonous frog (below) but don't know the origin of that powerplant.



To be fair, I hear tell that this poisonous frog is actually a fairly decent sports car once you solve the early chassis issues.

One charming description, so very British:

"This car could be likened to a dog walking on its hind legs -- it was not done well, but most people were very surprised to have seen it done at all."

stephen987

The Daimler SP250 used the Daimler V8 from the 250 series sedans. It was not shared with any other company. Quite a nice engine from what I've heard, though if I recall correctly the chassis of the SP250 wasn't much different from that of a TR3.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes the chassis and transmission appear to be very TR3-ish, from what I've seen in photos. I don't know much about the V8 but it seems to have a decent reputation.

Very bizarre, for a company like Daimler to presume entry into a sports car market.

I guess it finally took the AC Cobra and the Ford GT40 to make a blissful marriage between a British body and an American engine. Some might say "what about the Sunbeam Tiger" but having driven a few, I didn't find it blissful.

stephen987

In that vein, they made about 200 of these, with final "assembly" taking place in New York:

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, could that be a Griffith/TVR?

If so, I recall the great comment by an American auto journalist:

"There has never been a more dangerous production vehicle".

This car looks somewhat familiar to me because I know where there is one rotting away, staunchy defended by its "protector" who swears to restore it someday (yeah, right). Perhaps it's better that it does not fall into the hands of the unwary or unskilled.

stephen987

Yep, a Griffith 200. 1500 lbs, one-third of which is a Ford 289 V8, on an 85 inch wheelbase. Someday I'd like to try one out--just for a moment, in a controlled setting.

british_rover

stephen987

Saab 9-3 Viggen?

andys120

After Daimler was absorbed into Jaguar they discovered that the SP250 cost more to make than the E-Type!

No wonder they stopped making them. The V8 found a home in the Daimler Sovereign which was otherwise a rebadged Jag Mk II.

british_rover

Got it in one.

ateixeira

A real stunner, IMHO they beat Mercedes at their own game.

fintail

Cartoony face....gotta be Asian. Doesn't stun me, not that I can see much of it.

lemko

Appears to be a JDM Subaru. I can just about make out the badge.

texases

Per Fuji Heavy Industries:
"FHI will present the “SUBARU HYBRID TOURER CONCEPT”, a new proposal for the future of grand touring car that integrates environmental friendliness, driving performance, and safety at a high level."

OK, I'm all for being "friendly"...

ateixeira

2.0l boxer turbo with electric assist on front and rear axles.

The only bummer is that the gas engine is not connected to the rear axle.

Equal length half shafts plus electric assist on the rear axle should quell any torque steer, though.

I love it.

fin: check the responses to the Blog here on Straightline - you're the only one who doesn't like it.

fintail

Show me some other angles. I can just see the face, and it isn't exactly pretty

It might be a great piece of tech, but that's not what I'm judging.

texases

Here's another article on it, with more pics

stever

Giant doors look fun in the pics but that's about it. In real life (unless you are Leno), you'd have to get out and push it into your garage.

ateixeira

The profile reminds me of an Alfa Romeo Brera coupe.

Keeping in mind this would be a fairly big crossover, that's a high complement. It looks like a sporty european coupe.

I realize the gullwing doors are doubtful for production but even as a 5 door I think it would be very handsome.

fintail

Interesting styling, especially for a Subaru. Whether or not it beats MB at the gullwing game can be debated :P

I shudder to think how it would be modified to become a production car. It would end up as a big 2-door wagon...with huge conventional doors and an even higher beltline, and would go over as well as the first version of the Tribeca.

ateixeira

I didn't mean to imply it looks better than the original 300SL gullwing. I meant it looks a heck of a lot better than Mercedes' recent concept.

I imagine this would end up being a 5 door.

jwilliams2

Might look better than the B Class, but the SLS? Surely you jest.

fintail

I think with 5 doors, normal wheels, non-hardtop-looking glass, and a less creased body, it might be very much like some of what Subaru already offers.

The SLS has some debatable proportions, but I don't see it as any worse. At least it made it to production status.

ateixeira

I realize that looks are subjective, but the SLS suffers from "pinhead" syndrome. Giant body, tiny greenhouse. Here's an awful picture to illustrate the point:



Full disclosure - I own a power retractable hard top Miata, and it suffers from the same problem. Soft tops are better styled, as is the manually removeable hard top.

The head is just too small, the proportions are awkward.

Fortunately my top is down 90% of the time.

That was certainly not the case with the original 300SL gullwing.

Subaru sorted it out better. The top blends right in with the design, no awkwardness at all. In fact you can even picture it as a 5 door with no change to the proportions.

fintail

I think that is probably an issue for any 2-seater 3-window roadster sized design with no room or not much glass behind the seats. Not much can be done. The 300SL was helped by rear quarter windows to make it look larger and better proportioned. The 300SLR coupe, which lacks the quarter windows is closer - but it too has better proportions just because of its foundation. Adding a quarter window or a large curved back glass would do a lot.

The Subaru is a gullwing station wagon, the SLS is a gullwing roadster with a fixed top. The former doesn't have to worry about that proportion issue.

ateixeira

I find a lot of folding hard tops have the same odd proportions, with this being the extreme case:



What's odd to me, though, is that a Gullwing design wouldn't seem to have the same limitations (small top that folds and fits inside a trunk).

fintail

Yeah, the folding top can only be so big. And the SC is just awkward on many levels.

I think the SLS should be more linked not to the 300SL, but to the old SLR, which it more closely resembles. They were very different cars.

Mr_Shiftright

The Gullwing (there is only ONE Gullwing) has its limitations. One, it is very hard to get in and out of, and even requires a steering wheel that folds in half; Two, it can get blisteringly hot in there, with poor cabin ventilation; Three, they can leak if not sealed properly.

The Delorean so-called gullwing came to grief with water leaks, and of course just about every targa top leaks and squeaks like crazy.

They look great but really, let's say the dirty truth---they are not very practical for entry, exit and structural integrity.

andys120

stephen987

Lotus Type 14 Elite?

andys120

Yup, Lotus' first street car.

Mr_Shiftright

Held together with Lotus string and Mr. Chapman's chewing gum, but what a great handling car!!

lemko

andre1969

That's not metallic pea...more like metallic PEE! :surprise: But either way it ain't antarctic blue. And where's the sports package?

You may hate it now, but wait till you drive it!

ateixeira

Subaru had half-windows before, on their SVX. You got a little mail slot to pay tolls.

I think a double burger would fit through the slot, but a triple burger and you're out of luck.

I doubt Subaru would put that in to production but I still think it's uber-cool. It would probably limit the spaces I could park in here in the garage at work, but when it looks that cool, WHO CARES! :shades:

andys120

magnette

This is a Jowett Jupiter - one of the last cars from a great make inBradford, Yorkshire, and basically it is a roadster version of the Jowett Javelin. It had a flat four engine which was quite advanced for about 1950, and also had a good reputation for handling. The company went bust due to cash-flow problems, witha full order book, and is a great lost cause of British motoring...

Mr_Shiftright

The Jupiter also won its class at Lemans in 50, 51 and 52. The engine took a few year to square away (ate bearings) and the styling was not to everyone's taste, and by the time Jowett figured out how to build a stronger engine and make the car more handsome, the room for such niche markets was drying up rapidly in the UK. I think 1954 was the end for Jowett. Old company, goes back to 1906. You don't hear much about them because until after WW II, their cars were not very noteworthy or exciting.

andys120

Yup, that's a 1962 Jupiter.