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Mystery car pix

16026036056076081470

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  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Ferrari 375 America by PininFarina - 1953
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2011
    You're close Magnette but it's '54 Ferrari 250 Europa one of the earliest of a long line of 3 litre V12 Ferraris and one of the first to sport Pininfarina coachwork IIRC.

    It certainly resembles the 375 America but so far I've only seen those with Vignale bodies.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'll see your weird Porsche? and raise you another weird Porsche??

    image
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2011
    It's known as the Beutler-Porsche. Beutler was a Swiss Carrozzeria that used a mish-mash of VW and Porsche pieces to create a four-seater in the late 1940s.

    The B-P is rather ugly in my opinon, and silly too. A grille on a 356! Come on!
    There was an even uglier Beutler-Porsche Cabriolet>

    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Silly, definitely. I would reserve "ugly" however, for far worse creations than that. It's not so bad, certainly no worse than a Sunbeam Alpine.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,462
    Terrible proportions, the top is way heavier than the bottom.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I'd have to disagree, there's nothing wrong with an Alpine. The proportions are correct except for the exaggerated fins on the Mk.I which were remedied on later versions (including the Tiger).

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Fair enough but there is a picture of a Pininfarina 375 in Fitzgerald and Merritt's book, 'Ferrari Sports and Gran Turismo Cars' and they say it was at the Paris Salon of 1953. It is that car that the 250 Europa design came from, I think, and I haven't ever seen either, so wouldn't have recognised it really.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Last call for #30758 which has been up almost 24 hours. Here's some hints:

    -It comes from the same country where the first Porsches did.

    -Like the Beutler, it used a mish-mash of Porsche and Volkswagen pieces but the word Porsche was never part of the model name.

    -Here's a look from another angle (note how tiny it is)>
    image

    Going...going...

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2011
    Absolutely, The Complete Ferrari by Geoffrey Eaton says they're the same car, same chassis, and body but the nomenclature at Ferrari back then dictated a name change when they went to a different motor. They were first shown simultaneously at the Pari Salon in '53.

    Nobody copied Pininfarina more than PF, at least this time they didn't sell the same design to two different makers (see sprevious post about the resemblance between Fiat 1200 and Ferrari 250 PF cabrios).

    Pretty cheeky to call the same body America with one engine and Europa with another! ;)

    Edit: I was mistaken earlier when I said that the 250 Europa pioneered the glorious line of 3 liter Ferraris. Not exactly it turns out, Eaton sez the three liter shown used the Lampredi "long block" V12, a bigger version (4.5 liters) went into the 375 America.

    The first car to use the "short block" Colombo-designed V12 was the similarly-named 250GT Europa, introduced at the '54 Paris show.
    It was the colombo 3 liter which powered the classic 250GT SWB, the 250 California and of course the 250 GTO.

    The 250GT Europa used a Scaglietti body with a fastback>

    image

    Nice shot of the front here


    Confused? :sick: :confuse:

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    edited October 2011
    I think PF made a lot of similar designs, just look at the BMC Cambridge / Oxford saloons and the Peugeot 404, the FIAT 1900 / 2100/ 2300 etc - although they were Farina then
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    DSCN6804">
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Lancia Kappa Berlinetta, circa mid/late-90s. Probably more often seen as a sedan or wagon.

    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • jwilliams2jwilliams2 Member Posts: 910
    edited October 2011
    Silly, definitely. I would reserve "ugly" however, for far worse creations than that. It's not so bad, certainly no worse than a Sunbeam Alpine.

    Yikes.....and here I always thought the Sunbeam Alpine (and Tiger) were great looking cars. This one surpasses ugly, and borders on fugly. :shades:
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Gone!

    The little Porsche-like thing is a late 50s Denzel 1300WD, the brain child of an Austrian, Wolfgang Denzel. There was a Denzel 1600 as well.
    The bigger motor was a Porsche unit.

    More here and here.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Yes the Kappa Coupe was only available 1997 - 2000. Nice looking from some angles.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 266,702
    Range Rover Evoque...

    It's the replacement for the LR2/Freelander..

    Also available in 4-door.... saw a 4-door when I drove by the Land Rover dealer, yesterday..

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,462
    My local dealer has one too.

    Well-kept non-working women must be lining up already.
  • magnettemagnette Member Posts: 4,229
    Sat in one at the Frankfurt show, and one of our directors has just taken delivery of one as his company car - already seeing a few on the roads, but we do have a Land Rover dealers at the end of our High Street.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well you can't excuse the Alpine as if the Mark I never happened. I'd personally reserve "ugly" for things like the Marlin or the Packard Hawk, etc. which are pretty hopeless. Bad proportions aren't the worst fault a car can display.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    That's a Ferrari Dino dohc V6 engine mounted amidship in a Lancia Stratos - king of the world rally racer of the 70s!
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    AWESOME car!
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2011
    That's a Ferrari Dino dohc V6 engine mounted amidship in a Lancia Stratos - king of the world rally racer of the 70s

    Yep!

    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,462
    Funny that the pic is from Berlin, as the new Stratos is the creation of a German:

    image
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2011
    Is it a fake or retro British something?
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Okay, my sister was in England a week or so ago and took these shots. Now she wants to know what kind of car it is.

    image

    image
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,462
    Nissan Figaro, early 90s (I think the "H" prefix is for 1990-91 cars). Quite a few have been grey market imported into the UK, they are also not unknown in Canada now too.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Thanks!
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2011
    Is it a fake or retro British something?

    It's British but it's neither fake nor retro, in fact it had more modern styling than it's contemporary competition. MY 1954.

    Maybe this'll help>

    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • wgraferwgrafer Member Posts: 592
    Looks kind of like the Bizarro World version of a Jaguar XK120 to me...
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Funny thing about this car. It's been posted before several times and always stumps almost everyone, it's gotten me a couple of times,

    More hints- That's aluminum body work and here's what it looks like inside>

    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2011
    Ohhhh, now I remember. It's a Swallow Doretti.

    Not my cup of tea, to say the least. But they actually have a race history of sorts. Apparently Jaguar drove them out of business since they saw the car as a competitor, but really, they needn't have worried, given the looks of this....thing....Now really don't the door panels look like they were made in shop class?

    In direct contrast to my not so subtle nose-sniffing comments, and as a direct rebuke to my corrosive and patently unwarranted comments, these cars are worth some money.

    Go figure. I wouldn't be seen dead in one. I could have a spectacular TR3A with equal performance, better looks and 1/5th the price.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's the replacement for the LR2/Freelander

    I thought they were going to keep the LR2 and sell them side-by-side, no? The Evoque costs more.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 266,702
    Maybe, I've got it wrong...

    That happens... ;)

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  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    edited October 2011
    Yup, according to Fantasy Junction Jaguar and Swallow used the same supplier of steel tubing and when Jag sales took of they told the supplier they'd go a competitor if they didn't cut off the supply to Swallow.

    Interestingly enough, Jaguar Cars Ltd. was an outgrowth of the original Swallow Sidecar Co.

    The price is waaay over the top as you say but I think the car looks pretty sophisticated for it's era and light enough that it would just blow the doors off a TR-3 or a contemporary MG.

    Speaking of doors, those have pockets which is pretty sophisticated for the early 50s. There's nothing to the doors on most of those early Brits.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • stewardrobbinsstewardrobbins Member Posts: 41
    Scion IQ?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2011
    Kinda doubt it...the TR3A weighs only maybe 100 lbs more but has more HP (being a somewhat later car). I would say it would outperform the Doretti or easily match it. And a 60s Morgan should beat both of them---also with the same Triumph power.

    Well I guess having door panels in 1954 is a plus if cutting a hole in a rectangle with a hole saw is a triumph (no pun intended) of functionality over form.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    And a 60s Morgan should beat both of them---also with the same Triumph power.

    So I have been reading lately, the Mog was a kind of secret weapon in production sports racing. It's wooden frame was much lighter than the steel frames in TRs and MGs and guys like Peter Revson and Masten Gregory knew how to take advantage of that.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The frames aren't actually of wood, (steel) but the body structure is.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,462
    British steel, wood, I don't see a difference ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the British built an entire bomber out of plywood and it was a pretty good plane, so..... :P

    I don't know if anyone EVER built a car with a wooden frame---probably the French.... :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I was gonna say Think City car but the oval headlights are not present.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    If they did build cars with wooden frames Concord NH would be Detroit. I used to work in one of the buildings where the famed Concord Stagecoaches were built.

    This one (ironically) lives in the Henry Ford Museum>

    image

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    beautiful thing, that.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Just keep the wheels wet so the spokes don't shrink and fall out.
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