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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread



  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I know our lovely friend Mitsu has been dug in a hole recently.
    I've even heard rumors that Mitsu might pull out of the US.
    I tend to think that's strictly rumor, but what are they doing with galant line?
    I haven't heard anything about a new galant.
    The new eclipse seems to have a couple of recalls already, though.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    "The Japanese car maker may be next to go down. Deeply in debt, Mitsubishi needs 37% shareholder DaimlerChrysler to bail it out of a $6 billion-plus hole, but it appears DC won't do so, its shareholders having vociferously stated their negative options."
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    Thanks for the article.
    I wonder if anyone would actually be interested in buying Mitsubishi.
    Obviously bigger companies don't need the baggage, but perhaps smaller ones
    might be interested in building a bigger presence in Japanese market?
    I fantasized about Hyundai taking over Mitsubishi (since they had long-time
    relationship once), but I guess that's just ridiculous. :P I hear that even the
    Japanese aren't buying Mitsubishis any more.

    So, no galant update, huh?
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    To make it clear that is in no way the final camry coming to the US. actually many believe that is the new IS 300 . I also didn't think it would look that good.

    The new camry are the ones you see on the test track spy shots that look closer to the current car
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    You make some good points, but:

    "And according to my fact sheet, it's not price collusion if you're intentionally trying
    to "decrease" market share."

    Generally, any time you have an agreement, express or unspoken, by a group of competitors to artificially hold up or hold down prices, that is price collusion, no matter that your intent is to decrease market share.

    "Even if it is some kind of collusion, the US government won't impose anti-trust laws the Japanese companies when they want."

    The government won't necessarily be the one bringing suit. Anyone can. You or I can bring a suit against Toyota/Honda/Nissan for colluding to raise prices on our next vehicle. And federal judges must uphold the law as it is on the books. And hopefully, we have a judiciary system that is free from undue influence from the executive or the legislative body.

    You are right though, price collusion is hard to prove, but it can and has been done. The difference with the American situation is that GM isn't cutting prices with the implicit understanding that Ford definitely will cut prices as well, or vice versa.

    Alright, I'll shut up now too. :)


    Looking at those spyshots of the '07 Camry. It looks like it's going to have that "droop" of the inner corner of the headlights, similar to the Corolla and Avalon. That is a styling element I don't like, but I guess we'll have to wait to see for real.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    I dont know whats going to happen to Mitsubishi, they have a long list of recalls. They're sales are down, they need help from other companies.

    No Galant update, its seems to be not selling well anyways.

    About the 07 Camry. Toyota has been improving their designs starting with the new Avalon. They've been pretty sucessful with the Avalon, hopefully the NG Camry will turn out nice.
    I am pretty sure it will :)
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646

    Have a look, if you notice the front of the car in the spyphoto looks like the ones you posted earlier. The back is hard to tell though. But notice in your spyphoto the rear lights have a slight angle, the spyphoto i have the lights also have a slight angle to them.

    You know what i noticed, it looks like the Toyota FTSX Concept. (well someone pointed that out on C&D forums :P)


    I think the Camry is actually going to look like the spyphotos :)
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    front to disguise an new Toyota.

    Now for my question, Why do you think the Camry is going to look like the spy photos?

    All I can say, is the 2006 Sonata meets and maybe exceeds the current bar; but it looks like the bar is being raised.

    Actually, there are a lot of other car makers besides just Hyundai trying to garner Toyota and Honda market share.

    If a person could see into the future what would car demographics look like:

    (1) More features, better handling, more power, more economy
    (2) Low sulpher diesels, solar augment, CD of less than .20 and fallen resale on dead battery hybrids
    (3) European and German cars dominant in USA; fall of the myoptic big three, demise of auto unions as we know them today.
    (4) higher and higher fuel prices; $5 a gallon within five years.

    Crusi'n in 6th manual shift all the way,

  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Why dont you think so?
    Notice the same grill, lights, badge placement (dont mind the H sign :P)

    I dont the Camcord have anything to worry about, i think its the domestics that have to worry about the new Sonata.
    But Ford has its new Fusion
    Chevrolet has its new Impala
    Too many new cars out there...
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I think it's absolutely hilarious that someone painted(drew?) honda emblem on
    the new camry :P
    I agree the bar is being raised.
    I suspect that Hyundai will quickly move onto a remodelled version.
    You can always give some changes styling-wise. Perhaps for the '08 model?
    We'll wait and see, I guess.
  • kronogoosekronogoose Posts: 116
    I don't claim to have any "factual" information, but I was intrigued a couple of months ago by the Galant Ralliart concept. I'm not even sure how I stumbled across it, but I think it may have been at one of the recent car shows. I even filled out a survey at Mistu's website about the Ralliart...made me think they were seriously considering it.

    The Ralliart version would borrow some mechanicals (V6, transmission) from the new Eclipse and have various interior and exterior tweaks to make it look sportier.

    I guess if you like the looks of the current Galant, then you'll like the Ralliart. I'm definitely interested in vehicles like this one, where a company takes a midsize sedan and spices it up. I personally can't wait for the Mazdaspeed6.

    I hope Mitsu is around long enough to sell the Ralliart!
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I think that currently, the Sonata has the best exterior, and the Accord has the best interior. We'll see how the '07 Camry turns out in both aspects.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    The new camry will obviously be more expensive than the current MSRP.
    Why not go for Hyundai Azera?
    Camry XLE V6 currently starts at 25,805. You can probably buy an Azera
    (with lower trim level, of course) under 27,000, no?
    Am I crazy?

  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    Is this what you meant?
    It does look a lot like the current Galant. I am not sure about the Mitsu's current
    designs, though... They look... loosely-fit (maybe I'm wrong)
    The orange color is quite nice, though... hard to pull off that kinda color.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I concur! (without ticking off anyone :P )
  • kronogoosekronogoose Posts: 116
    That's the one! The looks don't thrill me, but at least it doesn't look like a clone of the Camry or Accord.

    I haven't seen many of the current model Galants in my area, which makes me think that they haven't sold many. I hope Mitsu sticks around a while, at least they offer one more midsize option to choose from.
  • gxpgtodanmangxpgtodanman Posts: 210
    I think stability control is usefull , but only on SUV's or vehicles with higher centers of gravities to prevent flipovers. Otherwise a good driver in a lower centered car doesn't need it. If you go into a turn or bend way to fast, the laws of gravity come into effect, ESC is still not going to save you! Also the condition and type of tires you are running come into play. Also the car, some handle better then others!
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Stability control is very useful on cars. I dont think you understand how it works.

    "ESC is designed to help a driver in the relatively rare event of loss of control at high speed or on a slippery road. When a driver enters a curve too fast, for example, the vehicle may spin out of control. But with ESC, automatic braking is applied to help keep the vehicle under control."

    So basically it prevents fish-tailing and spinning.
  • pwimseypwimsey Posts: 16
    Stability control is useful on cars and SUVs, but it's *more* useful on SUVs because the consequences of fish-tailing or understeering are, statistically, worse in an SUV because of the rollover danger. But if you lose control and spin into the other lane, or down a steep bank in a car, the consequences are still pretty dire.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I am pretty sure the photos are very very close to the final version (if not identical)
    It does look similar to 2006 Lexus IS, but they are in no way the same car.
    The test track spy shots look identical to the fuzzy projected image. (just more
    photogenic angle) I post one of the images again (you can clearly see the "camry"
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Its not necessarily true that the new Camry will be much more expensive. In 2000, our Camry LE 4A had a sticker price of $21,480. Our 2002 Camry LE 4A identically equipped listed for $21,349. Today, a Camry LE 5A with side airbags and floormats in the Northeast is about $21,650.

  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    Month...........Total....AL-made...'05 model...1yr ago
    July(1-27).....3,430.......2,045......2,611.........9,605(full month)

    *Full July sales of 2006 Sonatas are expected to reach 4,000.

    They still have 3,587 '05 Sonatas. I guess August should pretty much be last
    chances for people who want the 05 version.

    It seams to me that their sales got hit hard by all the discounts around.
    (Unless I'm wrong about last year's data.)
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I hope they don't raise prices too much.
    It's nice to have more options.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Posts: 4,202
    from this generation and have had none of the problems you post about.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    It's a shame that you have experienced whatever problems with your 2005 Accord. But I can assure you that I have had absolutely no significant concerns with my 2005 Accord EX V6.

    In every car model there are always certain cars that turn out to be 'defective' But in general Honda has a reputation of making reliable cars. I am sorry about the experience you have gone through with Honda. If you're going to walk into a forum, and say such a bold statment "Don't buy Accord specially EX-V6" and back it up with your personal experience, I dont think people are going to accept that. You're making a simplistic assumption that this happens to all Accords.
  • fitguyfitguy Posts: 222
    My last Accord was a '03 EX Coupe; it was flawlessy reliable but not up to usual Honda standards in terms of body integrity (1 rattle, 1 sqeak, both hunted down and fixed by me). My '04 Mazda 6S has been just as reliable, no squeaks or rattles, and a lot more fun to drive. Honda's are still a very good car, but IMO not what they once were.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    New Impala has better value then Sonata :P
    It's in CDN
    32,855: Impala SS V8 303HP
    28,000: Sonata GLS V6 (like LX in US)
    33,600: Honda Accord EX V6

    Does that make it a benchmark?
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I'd never buy an Impala.
    Your price is wrong. Full-option Sonata LX is about 25,000.
    Where are you coming with the numbers?
    Are they with taxes or something?
    I don't get what your point is... :confuse: benchmark?
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    I said Canadian! not U.S.
    Go to the Canadian Hyundai site, the GLS premium is equal to the LX. Canada does not have the LX.

    A lot of people were saying that the Sonata is class-leading because it is equal to the Camcord at a cheaper price. So basically what i am saying is if the Sonata got praise for its price, the Impala should.

    I read this Toronto Star article about the new Impala, icle&cid=1122587411393&call_pageid=968867497088&col=969048871196&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacoda- login=yes

    But, i dont think being simply less-expensive is class-leading.
  • ykangykang Posts: 88
    First of all, I apologize to the members of this forum that I used inappropriate words. But ,ctalk, don't try to generalize this problem like every car model has defective ones. If you type "transmission noise" or "rattles", you will see hundreds of complaints on this forum. Honda already has two recalls for 2005 model. Do you think I'm just out of luck. Honda is no longer a reliable car maker.
This discussion has been closed.