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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    Economy 101 says that demand for your Tahoe is fading fast. Your answer depends on how much you drive versus how much it would cost to buy and operate a smaller car. But you have to factor in any remaining balance owed and depreciation on the Tahoe. I have a '99 Sierra pickup that was just paid off late last year. I keep it because I need a truck and it's 4WD makes it good for winter driving, but the truck isn't my daily driver any more. I know the trade it market value isn't great, but it's worth more to me just to keep the truck now that it's paid for. The truck was our main vehicle that we used for travel and vacations, but now I'm looking for a smaller family car that gets better mileage. That is why I'm looking at the Sonata as well as other makes. I still haven't found the right car at the right price to pull the trigger just yet. With interest rates on the rise, I might just stick with the truck despite the extra cost for fuel, even though the truck does get good gas mileage given it's size. Lot's of people are dumping their larger SUV's for smaller cars and the market is flooded with used SUV's, so don't be shocked when you see how low the trade in value is on your Tahoe. Some will say it's a no brainer, but it might be a tougher decision depending on your particular needs and situation. Good Luck! :shades:
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    ...doesn't include Tahoes, SUVs, Avalons, Civics or whether posters have or need to get a life.

    We're talking about the vehicles listed at the top of the page; though many would confuse this for the neighboring Sonata vs. Camry vs. Accord discussion. ;)

    Let's try to expand our conversation to include the other three vehicles that you intended to include when this discussion began and skip the personal digs and other off topic distractions... 'kay?
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    ctalk... Congrats on the Accord. My neighbor has an '05 Accord on lease and it is (was) a nice car, but it's now in the body shop due to a minor accident. He replaced a Lincoln Town Car with the Honda. The ride of the Honda can't match his old Lincoln of course, but he likes the new Honda just the same. He did complain about road noise after a recent trip, but he discovered that the tire pressures were way too high!! If the Accord works for you, that's great! Enjoy the ride! :D
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I own two Elantras and IMO the '06 Sonata looks absolutely, positively NOTHING like the Elantra. Front ends are totally different. Side profile is totally different. And the rears are REALLY different, with the Elantra sedan resembling the Maybach or new S Class, and the Sonata resembling the latest Lexii (GS, IS in particular). Maybe that will change with the '07 Elantra, but since I haven't seen a good pic of that car I can't say.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Ridiculously thin sheetmetal, everything is cheap but runs a long time. And if you try to start the engine in the winter , you mite as well take the bus
    Well, if your talking about safety the current Civic is safer then the Elantra.

    Honda Civic Crash Test
    Hyundai Elantra Crash Test

    And Consumers reports and JD power both say its a reliable car.
    I'm getting off topic now... i'll stop :)
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Are you shopping in the mid-size sedan market? Or have you already purchased a car already. I brought my Accord on a trip recently to Toronto. Enjoyed it a lot, after 2 hours I would usually start having aches in my neck with the Corolla, but this time I didn't :)
  • oldjoeoldjoe Member Posts: 132
    Sorry about the conflict...as an ex-Hyundai owner, I will NEVER consider them again...personal experience.

    Hyundai was FORCED by market conditions to offer the 100,000 mile warranty (only to the original owner)...nobody wanted to buy their autos at the time and rumors said that they were going out of business. They were kept afloat becasue of their ship building business. When I was ready for a new car, I settled on the Honda EX-L I4 after looking and driving and researching . I knew what I was getting and didn't even look at the Hyundai, why would I?

    Many owners buy Hyundais for only one reason...just because they are CHEAP and the almighty dollar rules their purchasing, basically, they are just looking for CHEAP transportation. Nothing wrong with that. American consumers walk with their feet and make theri decisions based on many factors.

    But not liking a particular auto doesn't make me or any other person on here bad guys and gals for what they like. After all an auto is just a metal combination of parts and not a love life. As far as quoting automobile articles, that is a confusing exercise, auto mags get paid by the companies they evaluate and they usually list only the positive things about any auto, not as scandalous as the "Motor Trend Car/Truck/SUV of the Year" where that title is directly bought by the auto companies that give the largest amount of dollars and perks to Motor Trend...a well documented fiasco.

    Since buying an auto in most families is a joint decision of a couple who may or may not have children, then many purchases are compromises of a person and their significant other...depending upon their life experiences. The days of the "macho" man making the decision is long gone and those types are fast becoming history. It's an equal world today between men and women. No longer does the testosterone level pick a car.

    This forum is very informational about mid-size cars, however, people state their views and we go on from there. Ther are no wrong or right answers, each of us likes different things in an auto and have varying amounts of money to spend. Making the final decision will never be determined by what any of us read on a forum, but by the individual we are. We gather information, analyze it for what we consider it to be worth and then use that information to be only part of a decision.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    OleJoe -

    Good comments! And you are completely right about the old school Hyundais and why they started offfering the 10 yr 100,000 mile power train warranty. Just to be clear, exactly what year and model of Hyundai did you previously own?

    And a second question you have read and heard ( probably more than you want) about the Sonata. How do you think the Sonata compares to the previous Hyundai you owned ?

    Cruis'n in 6th :shades: (2005 Accord Coupe w/NAV and 6-speed manual shift),

    MidCow

    P.S.- I purchased my recommendation :)
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    "Are you shopping in the mid-size sedan market? "

    Yes.... I'm looking for a new vehicle for travel since we have family and friends we visit in several different states. We usually take my truck, but the wife doesn't like to drive it because of it's size, and of course it takes $80+ to fill the tank these days. I test drove the Camry, but wasn't impressed with the car or the way the dealer treated us. I had a Ford 500 on a 24hr test drive. Nice car, but just not quite there yet. Test drove two Sonata's, but at the time there were no incentives. Looked at Honda, didn't see anything interesting to me... maybe I'll look again. I liked the Sonata, but there's only two dealers in our area to work with and I haven't talked price with either one yet. I'm looking to buy something by the end of this year for sure. My Pontiac drinks gas like water, plus it has other issues, so it has to go bye-bye soon. Wife hates that car too!! :surprise:
  • gmctruckgmctruck Member Posts: 186
    Good comments oldjoe.... one size (or car) doesn't fit everybody's needs or wants and a lot of different factors are involved in making personal choices! :D

    "I will NEVER consider them again...personal experience. "

    Unfortunately, after almost three decades of loyal ownership, I feel the same way about GM. My last two GM vehicles have had many quality related issues, so the employee pricing deals mean nothing to me at this point. The only foreign cars I've ever owned is my Volvo and two old VW bugs. For the first time in a long time, I'm looking beyond the US automakers for my next vehicle since they don't seem to be able to measure up to the competition these days. :(
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Has anyone heard a peep about the 2007 Altima redesign? It should be here within a year, but there's no "spy shot" or "new info" on this car.

    The Altima is on pace to hit 270,000 sales this year. And unlike Accord and Camry sales, that does NOT include any coupes (for obvious reasons). Sedan vs. sedan, the Altima is probably nipping the tail of the Accord in terms of sales. That's pretty remarkable for a car that wasn't even on the map not that long ago in this extremely competitive segment.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The one issue I see with the Altima is that prior to the 2005 revision, it sold with very few incentives (either DTC or Factory to Dealer). At the present, in my area, incentives are far higher than those on either the Camry or Accord, so the continued increase in sales is likely coming at a hit to Net.

    Im not really one for talking about sales info though, there are so many determinants in a vehicle's selling pace that do not depend on the actual vehicle itself. OTOH, Nissan wouldnt be in business if it couldnt turn around the plummeting sales numbers, and the Altima has certainly done that, so its definitely noteworthy.

    ~alpha
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Are many people big fans of driving around with unsecured fuels in their trunks just in case they cant find a gas station? That borders on seriously impractical and unsafe, in my opinion. Diesels still cant match a gas powered engine for enviornmental friendliness, either, despite that less of the fuel is used.

    ~alpha
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Jrock65 -

    I looked at the Atlima SE-R 6-speed it was on my short list. The quality of the inside imporved over 2004 significantly and almost up to the Honda level. It had xexon lights, heated mirrors and the right color of red with balck leather interior and I could have got it for $100 over invoice with 1% financing for 60 months.

    It was a great car except for the RADIO. I have found that all Nissans ( 350Z, Altima) and Infinitis ( G35) that I looked at had extremely poor FM and AM reception on the radios. The CD and XM appeared okay so it must be in the antenna and not necessarily the head unit or the speakers.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Also, even at invoice the top Altima (SE-R) is priced higher than a loaded Accord with NAV, also priced at invoice. The net cost was $500-$1,000 higher than a loaded V6 6-speed EX coupe w/NAV and NAV was not aviaialbe on the SE-R model ( mileage voltage and oil pressure guage replaces the location area).

    And even though it is up quite a bit, the relability of the Nissan Altima is still a notch below Camry and Accord., probably about where the new improved Hyundai lines will fall.

    Cruis'n in 6th :shades:

    MidCow
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    So far, little is known about the next Altima. A few folks over at Altimas.net have gotten to see a prototype of the next model and they tell us that its styling will be VERY evolutionary. It won't be NEARLY as revolutionary as the 3rd generation model. Over at Altimas.net the thread is intitled "Auto study of the 2007 Altima"

    These folks, who were apart of a session committee, stated that the headlights were a bit taller and less wide, the taillights were still clear, but had more of an Infiniti M35 look to them (not sure I'll like that) and that the interior with or without navigation system would have an screen standard similar to the Accord model. One guy also stated that chrome dual tailpipes will be standard on I4 and V6 models this time around.

    Bascially there point was that the next Altima would be sportier, not any bigger, and more refined. One guy claimed that the interior was pretty much a similar design but with better interior materials and added refinement. One V6 model was reported to have "push start." That feature didn't prove to be popular in the study session, nor did the cleared new taillights (which one guy stated would be amber again) So the guy over the session stated that "auto hold" and the clear lights may be changed.

    The car is supposedly going on sale sometime in the Spring of next year, right behind the release of the new Camry. DO NOT be surprised if you don't see spy shots of the next Altima anytime soon. Folks say Honda is good at hiding spy shots, but Nissan is better.

    Do you guys remember ANY spy shots of the 2002 Altima? I don't. We didn't see that car until it hit the NY Autoshow in April of 2001.

    The new Sentra is supposed to get here right before the Altima does as well, and not one spy shot has been found of it yet. We probably won't see any thing on these cars until the North American, Chicago and New York Autoshows.

    I expect the Sentra at NAIAS, and the Altima at NYIAS. Also keep in mind that the Maxima, Quest and Murano will be getting facelifts (and new interiors) for 06 and 07 model years.

    Alpha,

    I don't know about your area, but in South Carolina, incentives have been available on the Nissan Altima since 2003. It was $1500 on the 2003s in my area. In 2004, before I got my 05 Altima, 04 Nissan Altimas had incentives of $2000 or 0.9 percent financing. When I bought my 05 Altima there were no incentives at the time, but by mid year a $1000-$1500 cash back incentive or 0.9 percent were available.

    So discounts have been available (and at times were better) on older Altimas then on newer ones.

    Although the Altima isn't sold as a coupe *YET* because its coming next year, its sold in much higher numbers to fleet buyers than Accord models. I'm not sure if they sell more Altimas or Camrys to fleets though. (Care to elaborate my friend, Alpha?)

    Sales really aren't bad for the car at all, considering its not as refined, is usually more expensive than a comparably equipped Accord or Camry, less features, love it or hate it back end styling and is nearing its last year in production.

    I'll be happy when I get mine back tomorrow too. :)
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    But once you add the options, it gets into Acura TL territory.

    The Passat is a bargin compared to cars like the Audi A4 and Audi A6, but compared to the TL, its no better or worse IMO.

    Its got some nice features, but with VW's "It's Electric, Boogie, Woogie, Woogie" issues, I'd have to wait and see if reliablity is strong.

    Its a BEAUTIFUL car though.
  • rgyiprgyip Member Posts: 43
    "Sales really aren't bad for the car at all, considering its not as refined, is usually more expensive than a comparably equipped Accord or Camry, less features, love it or hate it back end styling and is nearing its last year in production."

    In my opinion, you hit it right on the head. Nissan isn't as refined (yet), but it has the advantages of better styling (opinion), better handling, and of course, the world famous award winning VQ35 engine. I was seriously considering getting an 3.5SE but when I ran the numbers at the time, but with what I want, it was more expensive than the Accord EX that I was pricing at the time.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    They make just about everything optional on their cars and it seriously drives up the pricing. On top of that, the new interior, while MUCH better than before, still isn't as good as the Accord or Camry. Back in April of 2001, Ghosn promised that the Altima's interior would be on VW Passat levels. It hasn't reached them yet.

    In my area, there are some Nissan Altima 2.5S models that run over $24K, and that's WITHOUT the SL pkg. Nissan is notorious for adding accessories to their cars during the last couple of model years. Things like accessory chrome wheels, sunroof visor and splash guards drive pricing up.

    And it's almost impossible to find an Altima four cylinder with ABS. Nissan makes some 2.5SL models with Navigation but NO ABS.

    So I'm hoping that with this redesign, Nissan pulls a Hyundai on us. Make ABS, Trac, SAB, SAC and other items standard, while giving the car progessive styling. Keep the base prices the same, but add equipment.

    If Nissan can do the above, bring up quality of materials and workmanship, while at the same time releasing the Coupe verison that is rumored. I could see the Altima selling as well as the current Accord and Camry.

    Right now, sales aren't really that far behind the current Accord at all. I expect them to get even better with the redesign.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Volkswagon lost my trust years ago, when i purchased a Jetta. I will never EVER buy a VW again.

    And from what i've seen (JD power) Volkswagon is near the bottom in their vehicle dependability study and is suprisingly near the bottom in the initial quality study.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    But there is just something about the way VWs look and they way they drive that gives them a much more upscale feeling.

    As I stated earlier, I seriously considered the Passat before getting the Altima. But college is an hour and a half away from home and I'd need that car to be dependable for at least 8 years (I'm getting my doctorate), so it was dropped.

    Hopefully VW has gotten its act together this time around. The cars are beautiful though. Even the new Jetta has grown on me lately.
    The 2.0t would be much better value if it didn't lack many of the creature comforts folks have come to expect for this class of cars. Pricing is in line with V6 Accord, Camrys and Altimas, but the lack of power front seats, and automatic climate control dropped it from my list.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Right, my point being that its NOT REAL SAFE (your own words). Also, that you have one friend who did it once.... doesnt really represent a significant slice of the market.....

    Max- I may be wrong, but I can only recall that the Altima saw heavy incentives (meaning the $1500 rebate currently available in the NE region) as the 2004s were being cleared off the lots. The 2005s originally didnt carry the rebate (logically), but after about 3 months, they picked up with the rebates of the 2004s that were being cleared (and presumably were).

    Also, I must say that I highly doubt the next gen Altima is going to debut around the same time as the new Camry (ETA: Mar 06). I recall reading that the Sentra was going to debut around that time, with the Altima redesign subsequent to that. Again, I may be incorrect, but Nissans been cranking out vehicles over the last few years and Id be shocked if they had the resources to launch a new Altima in just 8 months from now. (Or maybe they will and it will have all the quality control of the Quest and Armada when they were first introduced......)

    Nothing is impossible, I suppose.

    Also, it is interesting to note that only GM, Honda, and Toyota are beginning to publish "SAE certified" horsepower and torque ratings. I'd be interested to see what the 2.5L (as well as the many variants of the VQ) produces under the new calculation..................

    ~alpha
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    No purchase to report.
    I looked at 4 different dealers in RI and MA. They all are slow to catch up with
    the price-cutting trend. Some of them still had considerable numbers of 04
    Sonatas to get rid of. Not too eager to make a sell. Especially the LX for some
    reason. A lot of GLs are near or at invoice price though. Kinda strange I thought.
    I'm going to give it another month or so.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Yea, hes such a huge Honda/Acura fan that he bought an Altima. Screams blind brand loyalty to me, LOL.

    And why would he care to compare a TL-S (which hasnt been made since the '03 model year) to a $40K '06 Passat?

    Just curious.. have you driven the new Passat?

    ~alpha
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    i have driven the 05 passat which my uncle has, and its a truly nice car. I liked it better than the TL even the current generation.

    So my guess is the 06 will be a stunner.

    its called educated guess

    and lastly if u haven't noticed, maxamillion has always backed up honda, even as a owner of the altima i got a gut feeling he should have picked the accord haha no offense maxa
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    It's too bad the next generation Altima will be an evolution of the current design, and not something entirely new. The current design was basically derived from the last generation Passat (2001.5-2005). I'd like to see something a little more original like the other Nissan cousins, the new Infiniti designs.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I would have picked the Accord, if the 03-05 looked anything like the 06 that's about to get here. But I LOVE my Altima too. I think its the best looking car in the class right now.

    I just try to be very open-minded about things, and seek value. :), even at 19.
    I inherited and still drive a 1991 Honda Accord EX, along with my 2005 Nissan Altima, so in essence, I do drive an Accord, but its 14 years old :P.

    As far as the Passat vs. the Acura TL, I'm not going there, if you want my comments, shoot me an e-mail.

    Alpha-
    Maybe it was different in my area, or maybe it was some type of dealer AD ploy, but I remember seeing $2000 cash rebates on the 2004 model Altimas in South Carolina, and $1500 cash back towards the end on the 2003s. I was seriously into Altimas since they got here in 2002. I used to check Mossy.com (a dealership in California) and I remember seeing the rebates on the 2003 models back then.
    In the South, Atlanta especially, Nissans sell VERY well. You see a new Maxima on every corner (as UGLY as they are) What was funny about the whole situation with the Altima was that some VERY large dealerships in the Atlanta area had many new 2003, 2004 and 2005s at the same time. As you already know, the 2004 model year was extremely short. The 2003 was a pretty good year for Altima sales, if I remember correctly, but some larger dealers in my area (not far from Charlotte, Atlanta, Greenville, Columbia, SC) had large inventories of leftover 2004 Altimas well into the middle of 2004. Mossy Nissan even had a rare brand new 2003 Velvet Beige 3.5SE with Black leather and manual transmission until about May of last year. They had the hardest time selling that thing ;)

    I really don't know when the Altima is being released, I was just reporting some things I'd heard over at Altimas.net. I also read an article about the Nissan Altima hybrid making it here in late September of next year, and that the new Altima would be out several months before the Hybrid to get all the bugs worked out. Since Nissan has made a couple of dollars, they need to focus on QUALITY, Material care, and safety features along with content and features for the dollar.

    The next Sentra needs to get here ASAP though. Its been here since Jan 2000 as a 2000 Model car! Have you heard any good things about it yet? I hear the first model was scrapped and the new one will be a "many Altima" Interesting, as I love the styling of mine. I wouldn't be surprised if the next Sentra gets here early, debuting at the NAIAS and then going on sell slightly after. Then the Altima debuting at the NYIAS (as it did in 2001, for MY2002) and going on sell slightly after.

    Nissan, with its rampant cost cutting should have PLENTY of money (hey, it got some of mine :P ), plus they've made a mint by doing some serious engine and platform sharing over the last couple of years. Seems like every car (Minus the Sentra) has a platform mate(s). Even the Sentra shares its uplevel 2.5 with the Altima. Don't you have that engine in your Sentra?

    But Regardless,
    Happy Motoring Days My Friends :)
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I just hope this New Altima doesn't look like the Teana (BLAH) or the Maxima (UGLY)

    Seems like in many ways, the 1998 Volkswagen Passat was a benchmark in its own right. It was styled differently from the other cars of that time. So it's no surprise that Nissan copied some of the elements of the Passat. However, the Altima has a more wedgy and edgier look than the Passat, especially the 2001.5 models. The Passat, overall looked more refined than the Altima does, but I find the look of the Altima, especially the 05s, to be quite nice as well.

    The Passat is the car that put the "S" back in style for this class. That's why cars like the Five Hundred/Montego (which share the same designer as the Passat), Altima and even cars like the G35, and M35 copied it. I can't count the nuimber of times folks have stated the G35, M35/M45 and Altima/Maxima were all the basic same cars, not realizing that only the Max and Alti have most things in common, while the G and M are basically the same platform. To me, the Infiniti sisters look like more refined verison of the Altima, but its subjective anyway.

    Happy Motoring Days
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Our topic is defined in the "What is this discussion about" line at the top of the page and those are the vehicles we need to stick to.

    Some off-topic posts have been removed. Thanks for your cooperation.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    Nissan has to make an effort to greatly improve the quality and appearance of their interiors, which have been a disapointment relative to the exteriors, and to the other competitors in this class. Again, the Passat has been the benchmark to beat, and so far no one has done that, and from what I've seen, the new 06' Passat interior is also very good.
  • deluxedeluxe Member Posts: 29
    Add me to that club....I owned 3 different vw's in Germany and they were great. My last one that i bought 4 years ago has been nothing but headache. In January I will finally be able to get something new (it is Maxima vs Accord for now).

    Hey I forgot to add, my check engine light is on again..I dont even take it serious anymore- it can wait till 60k service...
    Still no 06 Accords or Maximas here in Michigan, I want to check the updates and compare the 2....
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    The front looks like an Infinit Q45
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    I just checked out the 06 Passat a coupe of days back at our local dealer, and i must say, the interior of that car (this was the loaded 2.0T) is GORGEOUS, and probably one of the best at ANY price point.

    For me, however, this car in now out of my budget, its more in line with A4, TL, G35 etc and is even being compared with those cars, rather than the Camcords/Alty. I could get a base version cheaper, but then I wouldn't get the gorgeous interior I so much loved.

    The other thing that bothers me are the overly long overhangs, something that VWAG has done well to hide in the past, but just seems to glare at you with this version. Anyway, like I said, I can't afford this car now, and I really don't like the Jetta, so that's out of the picture.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Max- regardless of the exact Altima incentive scenario, the bottom line is that the car has achieved significant sales success through its distinctive style, roominess, class leading power levels, and good handling. HOWEVER, I simply question at what level the sales would currently be was the vehicle not to ALSO offer incentives that are greater than those of the CamCords.

    Re: the Sentra, I dont want to talk at length since this is the midsize forum, but I completely agree. I love my '03 (now with 52K miles), but even at that model year, the car was in its 4th MY, but aging well (dont forget, this is prior to the MZ3, upgraded Focus, new Spectra, Cobalt, etc). Now, the vehicle is entering its 7th model year (how very General Motors), and no longer offers some of the more attractive options combinations that made my 2.5LE unique. The car is ONLY worth considering a value buy, IMO. There is very little known about the replacement, though I also did read that the original was dumped due to very poor consumer reception/study groups. Should be interesting.

    Re: the Altima's 2.5L. It needs to be refined, and it needs to achieve acceptable levels of efficiency. 23/29 doesnt cut it these days. Give us another cog in the trans, and variable timing on BOTH the intake and exhaust cams, and that should do the trick. These are definitely prerequisites for the redesign, whenever that debuts.

    I also agree that for some reason, Nissan skimps on safety with the Altima line. Not other lines, mind you, as, for example, the Maxima and Quest have had side curtains since their debuts, ahead of competiting Toyotas. But I've seen many 25K Altima 2.5SL models lacking the ABS/Side Airbag option. GET REAL!!!! WHO BUYS THESE THINGS?????

    ~alpha
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    True about the incentives though Alpha. I know for sure that if I had waited a few more months, I would have sprung for a 3.5SE as I loved the power and the added options (Xenons) that you could get.

    I'm also agreeing with you on the 2.5 engine's performance. I does feel pretty fast, even in my rather large Altima, but it lacks the NVH levels, refinement, extra gear and smoothness of the Camry and Accord's I4 powertrains.

    And as far as seeing $25K Altimas without ABS options. Try looking at some of the ones down here for $27K with every option from Navigation to factory chrome wheels, but NO ABS or Side Airbags.

    Nissan really needs to get that together IMO. Or else the competition from Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia will run all over them this next time around. Nissan shouldn't pull a Ford Fusion on us (making ABS optional)
  • jprybajpryba Member Posts: 201
    Any midsize car costing $18-20K and up should have standard ABS and side airbags. I looked at some Altimas recently and was shocked by the lack of these features in a $23-25K car. It's time to join the 21st century, Nissan!
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    They better also make better interiors. Nissans interior is very bad, and not very tight and buttoned down.

    But since the m35/45 now with its very stellar interior, its time that even nissan encorporate thtat style into their cars
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    I don't think Nissan interiors are bad; they just had a problem with the 02 Altima, but the 05 redesign really helped matters. On the other hand, yeah, they could do better.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    VW was probably the worst car I've ever owned, it had problems with the steering, engine, stereo etc. I also had problems with my Chevy, but it wasn't as bad as the VW.

    I've never really stuck to a car manufacturer, my last car was a Toyota, and the car before the Toyota was the Chevy. Who knows maybe my next car may be a Hyundai (or a BMW :D)
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    imageimage

    Length x Width x Height x Wheelbase (mm)
    Optima 4735 x 1805 x 1480 x 2720
    Sonata 4800 x 1832 x 1475 x 2730

    Optima is smaller but tiny bit taller. Perhaps more European approach?
    I heard somewhere that Optima will be closer to Elantra than Sonata.
    The engine used in Optima will be somewhere between the two Hyundai cars.
    Hmmm...

    I'm a little disappointed with the design, to be honest. I hoped it would be a little
    sportier than that.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    like an Infiniti Q45 but smaller.
    But its nice. I think the Sonata is better looking actually :P
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Call me crazy but I see a little bit of old lexus IS...
    I'm anxious to see the rear. (That just doesn't sound right :P )
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    imageimage
    They almost look identical IMO, I am not sure about the old IS.

    And no that doesn't sound right :P
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Okay, I give you that one...
    The front looks awefully similar.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    image
    image
    image
    Do I see a little bit of Audi A8 in the back or what?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    I've had a love/hate relationship with my 2002 Passat. On one hand I had problems with ignition coils and the front suspension, both of which were corrected in a day, under warantee, with a loaner. The VW dealer has been very good contrary to reports about other VW dealers on some of these forums.

    On the other hand, the Passat has been at the top of the list for favorite cars of the 35 or so cars that I've owned. It has a great ride, handling and acceleration, and the interior is tight and quiet. The design both inside and out is beautiful. My mileage has been up to 33mpg on the highway and 26mpg around town. Overall it's a world class car that can compete with sedans costing $1000's more. It does everything well, and it is one of the safest sedans available. The only other car I liked better was my 67' Porsche 911 for "fun to drive" ranking.

    Even taking into consideration the problems, I think the positives outweigh the negatives, because I look forward to driving this car every day, even after 3 years, and it still looks good next to the competition, even though its on a decade old platform.
    It sounds like the new 2006 will be even better, which makes sense since it is the next generation, although I don't think the styling is a striking as the last generation Passat.
    Nice, but more evolutionary than revolutionary.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Whoa I do see some Audi A8 :P (and maybe A4)

    imageimage
    imageimage
    The front just makes me laugh. It looks exactly like the Infiniti Q45.

    Doesn't look very sporty, I like the Sonata's design better...
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    The profile is exactly the same as the Sonata. Just some different front and rear treatment.

    Not surprising, as these are sister cars made by the same company in the same price segment.

    I kind of see the Sonata/Optima relationship in the same way as the Taurus/Sable relationship a few years back.

    Hyundai is taking a dual-headed approach to this segment, while all the other import companies have just one offering.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I think Hyundai/Kia is doing a better job of differentiating the cars than
    Ford/Mercury. Sonata/Optima, Tucsan/Sportage, Accent/Rio...
    They do look quite different.
    I just wonder when they'll get over the derivative designs.
    (Although I think Sonata is hansome and has a lot of potentials)
  • 04mazda604mazda6 Member Posts: 2
    Just to let everybody know, mazda is bringing out a new 6 next year fall for 07 instead of 08. Expect the new 6 to be bigger than the current altima
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