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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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first off... i insult nobody. If you took it that way, frankly, that's your problem. Keep in mind, YOU are the one that started to argue with MY purchase decision by saying the Mazda is better looking. If you weren't pointing out form over function ... well, just what exactly WERE you pointing out, then? I have no problem with you buying a car based on looks. Again, I think there are better looking cars than both, but that's my opinion. I'm sure we have different taste in the art we hang on our walls, too.
While I think the Mazda6 is better looking than the Accord, its not important enough to me to factor into the buying decision.
By the way, just because 2 people share a subjective opinion does NOT make it objective.
I don't see why this has to be difficult or why anybody has to feel like they've been insulted. Based on what I've been able to get out of you, this is where it stands (and i've tried to limit this to those factors which are measurable and provable).
Mazda6 = the car for you if you value handling and braking
accord = the car for you if you want more room, better economy, better resale, and more power
did i miss anything?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
ok. i see. when i saw the fine print, i thought it meant you couldn't take mazda financing, period. But, you're right, there should be no reason not to get full-rate mazda financing and the money. I won't bother running the math on that to figure out which way is cheaper.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
seriously, though, its not that my accord is UNATTRACTIVE, as I've said ... it just doesn't stand out ... which can be good sometimes, i suppose.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
i thought the interior was pretty nice in person.
ok, my turn!
You don't see many Accords with those wheels because they are EX V6 only.
Maybe the 08 Accord will attain this.
They keep the rain out, and I always like a little fresh air. I guess you wouldn't like the nose mask either, then. To each his own.
Maybe the 08 Accord will attain this.
Honda always puts function over form. I would not want it any other way. I've made the mistake of buying a car based on "looks" before. It won't happen again. I don't really care if anyone else likes it, I'm the one paying for it.
MY TURN!:
As you can see, the only accessories I have are the stripe (weren't charged for it b/c I didn't want it) and the mudguards (I wanted those to keep things cleaner).
The cars do look better without it (I have none on my '96 on purpose), but since I already had the tag, I figured I'd leave the bracket and put the new tag on.
IMO, the 6 is about the only family sedan that I prefer with a spoiler.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I don't think it is that. It is the claims by owners that Honda's are so far superior to other cars. Added to that are the ridiculous claims that they are not sold for significantly higher prices than other comparable cars.
Statements like "there is simply no comparison" when the measurable differences between an Accord and Mazda6, for example, are minor. Some of the differences would objectively favor the accord, others favor the 6. Subjective differences can also go both ways...and come down to personal preferences.
Basically the Honda lovers overstate their case, which comes off as a kind of arrogance. In the end, this is backed up by nothing other than claims like "better fit and finish" or "more refined".
A refined engine (transalates into:): smooth, quiet/silky in its action, sweet-sounding through the rev-range, not coarse or raspy.
Just an example of how a lot of confusion could be solved IMO.
what person who doesn't love their car do this? As if the mighty Mazda owners (of which, i am one of those, too, by the way) go around saying "yeah, its only marginally better in certain areas." uh-huh. tell me another one.
folks are allowed to have an opinion on what they prefer, just as you do. If someone (let's say me) feels that the Accord blew away every other new car in its class that I test drove ... who are you to say that's not true? That's my opinion, that's my right to say it is so.
nothing other than claims like "better fit and finish" or "more refined".
Apparently, a HUGE number of buyers and most of the press feel these details mean alot to them. Again, you feel those details aren't important. Great for you. Great for Mazda. If it wasn't for folks like you, there would be no choice in the automotive world. I'm glad there is.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Nor have I ever counted on these articles as gospel.
Nice car, zzzoom6, although it looks eerily familiar.
Okay, my turn!
Actually, it's an '04, but I added '06 taillights because the black housings look soooooo much better than the red, especially with darker-colored cars.
I think I would like that darker gray color a little better than the current tungsten gray...which is my likely choice when I finally actually buy one.
I'll admit, I almost bought a 5-door, but they were just released when I was buying, the dealer only had two that were just off the truck, and wasn't willing to bargain as much as the sedan. I'm happy with my decision though, and I LOVE my 6!
Most of our arguments are really insignificant.
Let's all agree to disagree and move on.
How about the new 08 Accord, did anyone hear anything about it yet? I hope that Honda gives it more room in the back - the back seat is too tight for my taste - same goes for Mazda6.
That is why I liked the Sonata/Azera so much more - because they seemed to have a lot more room in the back.
As far as driving dynamics go for me - Mazda6 has the best steering and suspension tuning, As far as the engine goes - the Nissan's 3.5 VQ is king. I didn't like to Toyota’s 3.5L because the torque seemed to came in at much higher RPM - and the fact that the new Camry has so many problems - :sick: I've heard horror stories about it.
The reason why I would not buy Honda or Toyota - Dealer experiences - they both were horrible. Stuck up and not willing to negotiate - as if they were selling Lexus or BMW or something. I think that paying sticker - is a major rip-off.
My wife and I actually did go and test drove the new Accord – while the inside is definitely very nice – the driving dynamics and the performance did nothing for me.
After several Maximas, the accord’s performance was tame.
But that is just my opinion.
Most of our arguments are really insignificant. Agreed
Let's all agree to disagree and move on. What if some of us still want to discuss this?
I just looked up a 2003 CR comparison, they found difference of 13 feet for stopping distance from 60 mph. The Accord EX was 145 feet, Mazda6s was 132 feet.
2007 Infiniti G35's next generation VQ:
306 hp @ 6800 rpm
268 lb-ft @ 5200 rpm
2006 Lexus IS350's 2GR-FSE:
306 hp @ 6400 rpm
277 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
I don't think based on the numbers the Toyota’s 3.5L has the torque comes in at "much" higher RPM as you stated. As matter of fact, the 2GR-FSE has higher torque than the new VQ at a lower RPM.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
really? wow. well, I'm not saying its the epitome of roominess, but one of the reasons I traded my Lincoln LS on the Accord was for the extra room in the back seat. As the specs support, I found that our rear-facing childseat fit with room to spare in the accord, whereas my headrest when driving in the lincoln pushed against the carseat (making an annoying squeaking sound when driving).
I was SHOCKED to find out a Honda had more room than a Lincoln!
But, heck, even more room is always welcome!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
In the case of the Sonata it fit without a problem
As I had pointed out, the carseat JUST fit in the Lincoln, but I had the headrest right against it. The Accord boasts 3 more inches of backseat room. So its basically about 2.5-3" away from my headrest now.
I see that the sonata/azera have about 1.5" more than that, even, which is pretty impressive.
Just quickly looking at the specs, by the way, the sonata/azera seem pretty competitive. Mileage is decent, power is strong, and as we're pointing out here, its roomy. If they would just offer a 6-speed stick, I might have to *gulp* respect it. ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Neither am I. The CR number was for the normal Mazda6 with V6...which is called Mazdda6s
Not by everyone. My kids are (mostly) grown and driving their own vehicles, so back seat just needs to be adequate for occassional use.
Someone on the Honda Accord board claimed the Accord would move up in size and the TSX (under a different name, presumably) would move over to the Honda line.
Maybe Honda is ready to introduce the Accord/Accord Euro Combo to the US market as well? :surprise: Seems like a reasonable move to me from both Honda and Acura's interest...
Accord will compete with Maxima and Avalon
Accord Euro will compete with Altima and Camry
Since the TSX moved over to the Honda line, TL will become the entry model which is right on the mark along with Infiniti's G and Lexus' IS.
Only one minor issue, that with "kathump" from rear suspension over a certain kind of road at low speeds. Called the dealership, they were aware of problem, ordered the parts (new shocks and brackets), had car in yesterday for fix, no more "kathump"...in fact no noises at all. Seating is very comfortable (cloth upholstery). Mpls-Chicago (about 950 round trip), no fatigue at all, averaged 29.6 w/ cruise set @ 73mph and occasional spurts up to 85-90 just to see how it handled. (Mileage computer and gallons into miles hand calculation agreed spot on...)
Generally, after 2-3 months with a car, I start looking forward to my next car--it's already been 4 months with my Sonata and the thought of a new car hasn't crossed my mind once.
I'm also amazed at the Edmunds' estimated total per mile operating cost, including depreciation, etc. Right within a penny or two per mile of the best...
Oh, my apologies. I totally read your post wrong.
I thought you meant C&D, not CR. C&D did a comparison earlier this year between the Mazdaspeed6 and Accord, among others.
In any case, the 3 feet number comes from C&D's 70-0 testing (you know, those folks that ONLY test cars) of the Mazda6s and Accord.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
riiiggt ... which is why i didn't say "welcome by everyone"
is there any opinion you WON'T try to argue with?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
but with honda coming out with clean burning diesles in the next couple years (with presumably good low end torque and great gas mileage), that could be another option worthy of consideration. I still think that honda's manual tranny is the best in the industry in this class, so that could be a potent mix. I saw some pics of the next generation accord at the australian auto show (same concept they showed at the tokyo auto show) and it looks pretty interesting. much bolder than the car they have now (which isn't saying a lot...). I heard it may be the euro accord though...but I hope we see it in the states!
Perhaps you should have said "more room is always welcome by me", if you are going to be so concerned about anyone presenting an alternate view.
I think this car looks quite good...
Put in a decent 6-speed manual and black leather/metal interior accents, firm up the shocks and sharpen the steering (well, sharpen the steering in ALL of them) and price it $1,000 higher than the current top model (Limited now?)
It's still a concept, but a Sonata Sport would be cool...
Photo courtesy of www.thehollywoodextra.blogspot.com
That I like and a helluva market perception that Hyundai continues to fight. And you are right, they shouldn't have to offer 'Detroit style' discounts, their products have improved significantly. Things should change when the pastor actually figures out that it was actually a Christian bookstore!
It doesn't matter which car he came from, whether it's a Honda or Dodge. If he likes the Hyundai, great. He part of a growing population that realizes that Hyundai is completely different from what they were even 5 years ago. Their quality is up, their product offerings are solid, and they can undercut the competition by thousands of $$$ in some cases. As a result, their sales increase year after year.
What car he came from is completely IRRELEVANT in this case.
I really hope Hyundai doesn't firm up the shocks on the Sonata. I really like its ride compared to the "feel every pebble" feel of cars like the Accord. If they could improve the handling without compromising ride quality, I'm all for that.
I suppose they'd drop the 3.8L engine in the "Sport" version too because many people equate "sport" with "power".
I try hard, but I don't like Carbon Fiber trim; not in the Mazdaspeed 6, not in the Accord V6 6-Speed, I just don't. I'd rather have aluminum look any day.