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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    You then proceeded to dengrate my preferences by saying "you are all about form over function".

    first off... i insult nobody. If you took it that way, frankly, that's your problem. Keep in mind, YOU are the one that started to argue with MY purchase decision by saying the Mazda is better looking. If you weren't pointing out form over function ... well, just what exactly WERE you pointing out, then? I have no problem with you buying a car based on looks. Again, I think there are better looking cars than both, but that's my opinion. I'm sure we have different taste in the art we hang on our walls, too.

    While I think the Mazda6 is better looking than the Accord, its not important enough to me to factor into the buying decision.

    By the way, just because 2 people share a subjective opinion does NOT make it objective.

    I don't see why this has to be difficult or why anybody has to feel like they've been insulted. Based on what I've been able to get out of you, this is where it stands (and i've tried to limit this to those factors which are measurable and provable).

    Mazda6 = the car for you if you value handling and braking
    accord = the car for you if you want more room, better economy, better resale, and more power

    did i miss anything?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    No, you are looking at it wrong. The $1000 is an additional rebate on top of the $2500. You get this for taking non-discounted financing. So with non-discounted financing the total rebate would be $3500.

    ok. i see. when i saw the fine print, i thought it meant you couldn't take mazda financing, period. But, you're right, there should be no reason not to get full-rate mazda financing and the money. I won't bother running the math on that to figure out which way is cheaper.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    i think the coupe is more attractive. ;b

    seriously, though, its not that my accord is UNATTRACTIVE, as I've said ... it just doesn't stand out ... which can be good sometimes, i suppose.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • honda28honda28 Member Posts: 14
    I dont understand whay some folks have such discontent and hatred for Honda. I have owned several cars 4 of them being Hondas. I currently own a 2006 Odyssey (wifes) but I drive a Chevy Trailblazer. I have owned a 2004 Accord and it was a wonderful car with wonderful fit and finish. The Accord has proven itself time and time again. Even with its so called bland looks it still managed to receive 369,293 units sold in 2005. Thats nothing to ignore. I test drove Mazda6, Altima as well as a few other. And IMO the fit and finish and general feel wasnt the same as Accords. Thats just simply my opinion as well as 369,293 people in 2005 alone!!! :D
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    my neighbor just bought a jetta 2.0 turbo/6 speed. he said 200 over invoice and mentioned 20k.
    i thought the interior was pretty nice in person.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    nice ride elroy! one of the best looking accords I've seen. I like your wheels; much better than the typical accord wheels I usually see.

    ok, my turn!

    image
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Nice car zoom, darker colors always look better IMO. But you have to work hard to keep them looking good. What color is that? A dark grey of some sort?

    You don't see many Accords with those wheels because they are EX V6 only.
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    Beautiful? Somewhat. Bag the aweful looking window vent visors. The other guy's Mazda6 is better looking to me. Put the Honda's guts in the 6's styling and there's a car.

    Maybe the 08 Accord will attain this.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Bag the aweful looking window vent visors.

    They keep the rain out, and I always like a little fresh air. I guess you wouldn't like the nose mask either, then. To each his own.

    Maybe the 08 Accord will attain this.

    Honda always puts function over form. I would not want it any other way. I've made the mistake of buying a car based on "looks" before. It won't happen again. I don't really care if anyone else likes it, I'm the one paying for it.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Some people prefer NO accessories on a car. I am actually one of these (even though my car has a painted on accent stripe). I like to see only the clean lines of the vehicle, unimpeded by things like the moonroof visor, etc...

    MY TURN!:

    imageSee more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com

    As you can see, the only accessories I have are the stripe (weren't charged for it b/c I didn't want it) and the mudguards (I wanted those to keep things cleaner).
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Cool car grad, What's on the front plate? I decided my car looked better without the front plate thing. To each his own. AL doesn't require front plates, do they?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    No, AL doesn't require them. It is my "U of A - Crimson Tide" tag... Big Alabama football fan here!

    The cars do look better without it (I have none on my '96 on purpose), but since I already had the tag, I figured I'd leave the bracket and put the new tag on.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    nice. very clean. And in the color I would have chosen, too.

    IMO, the 6 is about the only family sedan that I prefer with a spoiler.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I dont understand whay some folks have such discontent and hatred for Honda.

    I don't think it is that. It is the claims by owners that Honda's are so far superior to other cars. Added to that are the ridiculous claims that they are not sold for significantly higher prices than other comparable cars.

    Statements like "there is simply no comparison" when the measurable differences between an Accord and Mazda6, for example, are minor. Some of the differences would objectively favor the accord, others favor the 6. Subjective differences can also go both ways...and come down to personal preferences.

    Basically the Honda lovers overstate their case, which comes off as a kind of arrogance. In the end, this is backed up by nothing other than claims like "better fit and finish" or "more refined".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I feel like the word "refined" should be disallowed in car magazines and in this forum, replaced by different adjectives/adverbs describing specific characteristics of the car.

    A refined engine (transalates into:): smooth, quiet/silky in its action, sweet-sounding through the rev-range, not coarse or raspy.


    Just an example of how a lot of confusion could be solved IMO.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Honda lovers overstate their case

    what person who doesn't love their car do this? As if the mighty Mazda owners (of which, i am one of those, too, by the way) go around saying "yeah, its only marginally better in certain areas." uh-huh. tell me another one.

    folks are allowed to have an opinion on what they prefer, just as you do. If someone (let's say me) feels that the Accord blew away every other new car in its class that I test drove ... who are you to say that's not true? That's my opinion, that's my right to say it is so.

    nothing other than claims like "better fit and finish" or "more refined".

    Apparently, a HUGE number of buyers and most of the press feel these details mean alot to them. Again, you feel those details aren't important. Great for you. Great for Mazda. If it wasn't for folks like you, there would be no choice in the automotive world. I'm glad there is.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The argument is ridiculous. If the Mazdas brakes are fried from hot-rodding the car (Mazda), it would be totaled. If the Mazda driver is tired and his/her reaction is slow, same thing. I've been driving for quite some time and never had an issue where a few feet made a difference as was alluded to. I've also seen a few smashed up Mazdas and Hondas, proving that alleged shorter stopping distances do not prevent accidents or death.

    Nor have I ever counted on these articles as gospel.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The color is called Steel Gray Metallic.

    Nice car, zzzoom6, although it looks eerily familiar. :)

    Okay, my turn!
    image

    Actually, it's an '04, but I added '06 taillights because the black housings look soooooo much better than the red, especially with darker-colored cars.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    Thanks sir! actually, I could do without the spoiler, but it came with the hatchback. the lip spoiler on the mazdaspeed6 looks much better imho. the color is darker than most, but not so dark that it shows every spec of dust (like black). but when black cars are clean, they do look really good.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    Hey! What are you doing with my car!!! I've been thinking about getting the 06 taillights also; I agree, they look sweet. I also like your window vents/cover thingys. I think they don't make them for the hatch though :cry: Where'd your third wiper go??? Oh yeah, sedans didn't get one haha. Nice car there, but you're right, our cars look kinda the same. It's like identical twins giving each other compliments about how the other one looks :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    They must be fraternal twins rather than identical, since one is a hatch and the other a sedan. :)

    I think I would like that darker gray color a little better than the current tungsten gray...which is my likely choice when I finally actually buy one.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    That's one advantage of the 5-door, it looks almost identical to the sedan, except for the small details. And despite the rear doors looking almost identical, the slight variation in the window shape is the reason why the Ventshade Ventvisors don't fit the 5-door.

    I'll admit, I almost bought a 5-door, but they were just released when I was buying, the dealer only had two that were just off the truck, and wasn't willing to bargain as much as the sedan. I'm happy with my decision though, and I LOVE my 6!
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    shapiro - I was only trying to make some people laugh, and you took it the wrong way - :sick:
    Most of our arguments are really insignificant.
    Let's all agree to disagree and move on.

    How about the new 08 Accord, did anyone hear anything about it yet? I hope that Honda gives it more room in the back - the back seat is too tight for my taste - same goes for Mazda6.
    That is why I liked the Sonata/Azera so much more - because they seemed to have a lot more room in the back.
    As far as driving dynamics go for me - Mazda6 has the best steering and suspension tuning, As far as the engine goes - the Nissan's 3.5 VQ is king. I didn't like to Toyota’s 3.5L because the torque seemed to came in at much higher RPM - and the fact that the new Camry has so many problems - :sick: I've heard horror stories about it.
    The reason why I would not buy Honda or Toyota - Dealer experiences - they both were horrible. Stuck up and not willing to negotiate - as if they were selling Lexus or BMW or something. I think that paying sticker - is a major rip-off.
    My wife and I actually did go and test drove the new Accord – while the inside is definitely very nice – the driving dynamics and the performance did nothing for me.
    After several Maximas, the accord’s performance was tame.
    But that is just my opinion. ;)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    shapiro - I was only trying to make some people laugh, and you took it the wrong way - :sick: Sorry, I do have a sense of humor, but I wasn't laughing
    Most of our arguments are really insignificant. Agreed
    Let's all agree to disagree and move on. What if some of us still want to discuss this? :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I am wondering where you found only a 3 foot difference in braking distance?

    I just looked up a 2003 CR comparison, they found difference of 13 feet for stopping distance from 60 mph. The Accord EX was 145 feet, Mazda6s was 132 feet.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Nissan's 3.5 VQ is king. I didn't like to Toyota’s 3.5L because the torque seemed to came in at much higher RPM

    2007 Infiniti G35's next generation VQ:
    306 hp @ 6800 rpm
    268 lb-ft @ 5200 rpm

    2006 Lexus IS350's 2GR-FSE:
    306 hp @ 6400 rpm
    277 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm

    I don't think based on the numbers the Toyota’s 3.5L has the torque comes in at "much" higher RPM as you stated. As matter of fact, the 2GR-FSE has higher torque than the new VQ at a lower RPM.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    because he wasn't talking about the mazdaspeed6.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    I knew that as soon as I post this, you guys will start nit picking. I said that IMO the Toyota’s V6 felt like it had less power on the lower end that is all - it could be related to the drivetrain and not to the engine itself. As far as the numbers are concerned - you posted the ones for the G35 and Lexus and not the Maxima/Altima vs. Camry.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    the back seat is too tight for my taste

    really? wow. well, I'm not saying its the epitome of roominess, but one of the reasons I traded my Lincoln LS on the Accord was for the extra room in the back seat. As the specs support, I found that our rear-facing childseat fit with room to spare in the accord, whereas my headrest when driving in the lincoln pushed against the carseat (making an annoying squeaking sound when driving).

    I was SHOCKED to find out a Honda had more room than a Lincoln!

    But, heck, even more room is always welcome! :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    Well, It was directed at the Mazda6 fans and not the Accord crowd. What ever happened to Sonata bashing are there any Hyundai bashers left here? :P
  • 2zmax2zmax Member Posts: 140
    I was wondering if you could comfortably fit the child seat into an Accord, cause I saw one the other day on a parking lot, at it looked like the passenger seat had to be pushed forward in order for the child seat to be placed behind it.
    In the case of the Sonata it fit without a problem
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    yup. No problem in the Accord. And we have a rather large child seat (plus its currently rear-facing, as i mentioned, which always takes up more room). PLUS, I'm 6'5", so the driver's seat is ALL the way back and reclined quite a ways.

    As I had pointed out, the carseat JUST fit in the Lincoln, but I had the headrest right against it. The Accord boasts 3 more inches of backseat room. So its basically about 2.5-3" away from my headrest now.

    I see that the sonata/azera have about 1.5" more than that, even, which is pretty impressive.

    Just quickly looking at the specs, by the way, the sonata/azera seem pretty competitive. Mileage is decent, power is strong, and as we're pointing out here, its roomy. If they would just offer a 6-speed stick, I might have to *gulp* respect it. ;b

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    because he wasn't talking about the mazdaspeed6.

    Neither am I. The CR number was for the normal Mazda6 with V6...which is called Mazdda6s
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    But, heck, even more room is always welcome!

    Not by everyone. My kids are (mostly) grown and driving their own vehicles, so back seat just needs to be adequate for occassional use.

    Someone on the Honda Accord board claimed the Accord would move up in size and the TSX (under a different name, presumably) would move over to the Honda line.
  • louisweilouiswei Member Posts: 3,715
    Someone on the Honda Accord board claimed the Accord would move up in size and the TSX (under a different name, presumably) would move over to the Honda line.

    Maybe Honda is ready to introduce the Accord/Accord Euro Combo to the US market as well? :surprise: Seems like a reasonable move to me from both Honda and Acura's interest...

    Accord will compete with Maxima and Avalon
    Accord Euro will compete with Altima and Camry

    Since the TSX moved over to the Honda line, TL will become the entry model which is right on the mark along with Infiniti's G and Lexus' IS.
  • formersuver1formersuver1 Member Posts: 19
    Bought a Sonata V6 GLS about 4 months ago. Let me sum up by saying that it's the only vehicle (trucks, cars,suvs, etc.)I've ever owned, where had I had paid full MSRP ($22492 delivered), I would have felt I had gotten my money's worth and more. My actual cash price, after rebates and dealer discount, plus only sales tax and license was $17,240. I re-visited Honda Accord, Buick LaCrosse, Camry and several other vehicles before even considering a Hyundai. Until recently, I would rather have had my pastor see me coming out of an adult bookstore, than to be seen coming out of a Hyundai dealership. When I invest in the stock market I try to buy stocks in which others have not yet seen the value--unquestionably that's why I ended up with such a good price on a very high-quality vehicle. My recent vehicles were a 2001 Intrigue (bad issues with the ISS, very poor cooperation from GM) and then a Buick Regal w/ touring pkg (with $1500 coupon from Olds, dealer discounts and rebates I ended up paying $21000 and change for the Regal--MSRP was 29,850).

    Only one minor issue, that with "kathump" from rear suspension over a certain kind of road at low speeds. Called the dealership, they were aware of problem, ordered the parts (new shocks and brackets), had car in yesterday for fix, no more "kathump"...in fact no noises at all. Seating is very comfortable (cloth upholstery). Mpls-Chicago (about 950 round trip), no fatigue at all, averaged 29.6 w/ cruise set @ 73mph and occasional spurts up to 85-90 just to see how it handled. (Mileage computer and gallons into miles hand calculation agreed spot on...)

    Generally, after 2-3 months with a car, I start looking forward to my next car--it's already been 4 months with my Sonata and the thought of a new car hasn't crossed my mind once.

    I'm also amazed at the Edmunds' estimated total per mile operating cost, including depreciation, etc. Right within a penny or two per mile of the best...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    the back seat is too tight for my taste

    Oh, my apologies. I totally read your post wrong.

    I thought you meant C&D, not CR. C&D did a comparison earlier this year between the Mazdaspeed6 and Accord, among others.

    In any case, the 3 feet number comes from C&D's 70-0 testing (you know, those folks that ONLY test cars) of the Mazda6s and Accord.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    Not by everyone.

    riiiggt ... which is why i didn't say "welcome by everyone"

    is there any opinion you WON'T try to argue with?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    if you mean put a honda v-6 engine in it, I'm thinking you mean a more powerful engine in the 6. If that's the goal, there's always the mazdaspeed whose turbo'd engine was rated one of the 10 best engine's this year. personally if mazda were to put in a accord quality interior in there, that would be amazing. looking at the cx-7 interior, looks like mazda getting their game up on interior design, so my hopes are up for the next generation 6.

    but with honda coming out with clean burning diesles in the next couple years (with presumably good low end torque and great gas mileage), that could be another option worthy of consideration. I still think that honda's manual tranny is the best in the industry in this class, so that could be a potent mix. I saw some pics of the next generation accord at the australian auto show (same concept they showed at the tokyo auto show) and it looks pretty interesting. much bolder than the car they have now (which isn't saying a lot...). I heard it may be the euro accord though...but I hope we see it in the states!

    image
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    there are 2 versions of the 2GR engine - the 2GR-FE found in the Avalon, Camry, RAV4, Lexus ES etc., and the 2GR-FSE exclusive currently to the IS, GS and and LS hybrid. The difference being an extra set of direct fuel injectors, 2 per cylinder as opposed to one. Additionally both 2GRs have continuously variable valve timings on both intake and exhaust. HP/Torque ratings between the Camry/Altima are so close as to be inconsequential as is any difference in acceleration times in the actual cars - the Toyota will, however, do better (2-3 mpg) on a gallon of gas, the result of a transmission 'programmed' more for FE than the more traditional Nissan transmission. Would suggest to you that the VQ may 'feel' stronger simply because there is more torque steer there to 'fight'. The 2GR, AFAIK, has been rock solid in all respects, the way in which transmission works the subject of much discussion. The VQ, well it may be getting a little long in tooth, but it remains a standard by which all V6s should be judged including Toyotas and Hondas.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Consumers Digest and Consumer Reports are two different organizations.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Oh get over it already, that is not "arguing" anything. I am just presenting an alternate opinion to yours. Not everyone feels bigger is better...as your use of "always" implied.

    Perhaps you should have said "more room is always welcome by me", if you are going to be so concerned about anyone presenting an alternate view.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Member Posts: 172
    Good for you.....but considering you're coming out of American models, your enthusiasm is understandable.
  • ergsumergsum Member Posts: 146
    Sorry, typed "R" instead of "D".
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    image

    I think this car looks quite good...

    Put in a decent 6-speed manual and black leather/metal interior accents, firm up the shocks and sharpen the steering (well, sharpen the steering in ALL of them) and price it $1,000 higher than the current top model (Limited now?)

    It's still a concept, but a Sonata Sport would be cool...

    Photo courtesy of www.thehollywoodextra.blogspot.com
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Until recently, I would rather have had my pastor see me coming out of an adult bookstore, than to be seen coming out of a Hyundai dealership
    That I like and a helluva market perception that Hyundai continues to fight. And you are right, they shouldn't have to offer 'Detroit style' discounts, their products have improved significantly. Things should change when the pastor actually figures out that it was actually a Christian bookstore!
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    What kind of a cheap shot is that? If he was coming out of a Honda, I bet you'd be calling him insane for highly regarding a car OTHER than Japanese.

    It doesn't matter which car he came from, whether it's a Honda or Dodge. If he likes the Hyundai, great. He part of a growing population that realizes that Hyundai is completely different from what they were even 5 years ago. Their quality is up, their product offerings are solid, and they can undercut the competition by thousands of $$$ in some cases. As a result, their sales increase year after year.

    What car he came from is completely IRRELEVANT in this case.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Black leather is already available in the Sonata, with carbon-fiber trim.

    I really hope Hyundai doesn't firm up the shocks on the Sonata. I really like its ride compared to the "feel every pebble" feel of cars like the Accord. If they could improve the handling without compromising ride quality, I'm all for that.

    I suppose they'd drop the 3.8L engine in the "Sport" version too because many people equate "sport" with "power". :(
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, that's why I said firm up shocks on the Sport, but sharpen the steering on all models.

    I try hard, but I don't like Carbon Fiber trim; not in the Mazdaspeed 6, not in the Accord V6 6-Speed, I just don't. I'd rather have aluminum look any day.
This discussion has been closed.