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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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And it costs a lot more too. What's the point? Mercedes is a totally different class of car. It should be compared to BMW, and other cars in it's own price range.
link to Autoweek.com
As we discuss the IIHS A vs G and have the IIHS declare a victor in it's test tube environment, we can't forget the IIHS tests only specific scenarios. The IIHS does perform a much needed service, but most accidents that I know do not occur in a laboratory and it's difficult to know what will happen, "in the real world". Even going 100 in a Honda is a real world scenario.
You take your best shot at picking a car and hope the Lord, not the IIHS, is on your side.
"In particular, the passenger seat is punishing not only for its lack of height or tilt adjustment, but also for its poor positioning and thigh support that tend toward dumping the passenger into the footwell instead of holding the rider in the shotgun seat."
That's exactly the impression my wife and I had when we test drove the Sonata. The seats were cushioned well enough, but they seems to slant you forward, which quickly became unsettling. They were in stark contrast to the seats in the Mazda6, which was just one of the reasons we chose the 6 over the Sonata.
What does that mean :confuse:
"Plus I've heard (unverified) that in Europe, only Volvo and Mercedes have staffers that visit body shops when their vehicles have been in collisions to see in a "real world" how they held up/protected the occupants."
Consider this a confirmation of sorts. During the mid 1990s I worked for MB-USA in Montvale, NJ (and occasionally in Stuttgart), and while I cannot comment about what MB did in Europe at the time, I can tell you that MB-USA routinely bought wrecked MBs and trucked them to the facility where I worked in Montvale for analysis. Some of the cars that I saw there were obscenely destroyed, making one wonder how the driver conspired with the elements to cause so much damage.
FWIW, BMW's U.S. headquarters were just around the corner in Woodcliff Lake (a quarter of a mile from my old house) and part of Volvo's U.S. operations were literally just across the parking lot from one of the MB buildings. All three companies do "Best Practice" visits to each others' facilities, and all three were in the habit of buying wrecks for analysis.
Best Regards,
Shipo
LURK-MODE
The longest I've ever taken a Sonata (SE) on a trip is 3-1/2 hours, twice in one day with about a four hour gap between trips. The driver's seat was the manual one. I found it fine when on cruise, but did not have enough thigh support when using the accelerator. The power seat has more support--the front edge can be raised higher. My oldest son who is 6' sat in the front passenger seat and had no complaints. I also thought the car (which was pretty new) handled great on the trip, which was almost all freeway and rural highway. Very quiet and smooth--but these were Texas roads, not roads up north in the Rust Belt (with potholes?). What the article didn't say is how long they spent in the car in one day. If it was 15 hours, that would be tiring for just about any car. So I have to assume they've made this trip before with other cars in the Sonata's class so they have a direct comparision.
You must have a different Autoweek than the rest of us.
This problem was my main objection with the car as well when I did a couple test drives. Felt like I was gonna slide off the seat. Really uncomfortable. I knew it wasn't just me with this observation.
Seems to be an easy fix though.
And the road fatigue issue was gonna be revealed sooner or later. Just slapping parts together doesn't make a great car. Heritage (or lack of it) in carmaking costs.
The Sonata is tremendous deal at street prices, though I sure wish that the sweet song of the 3.3L V6 was available in the Kia Optima, which has a MUCH more coherent and attractive interior. Your MPG is higher than I've acheived in my many rental V6s- according to the trip computer, I usually average between 19 and 21 depending homw much highway (usually Chicago to Milwaukee) I do. Two of my biggest complaints on the Sonata are relative quibbles - the steering wheel audio controls are virtually useless, and despite having a trip computer, there's no outside temperature gauge, an absurd omission. I certainly echo your comments regarding interior fit/finish. Actually, the fit and finish are generally just fine, its the aesthetic and erogonimc faux pas that bother me..... the large separation between the HVAC and stereo controls, and the annoying location of the center stack vents, for example.
Otherwise, the Sonata has a lot going for it, though I wouldn't call it 'fun to drive' - this is not a Legacy, 6, or Accord, and I don't feel its as responsive as the Camry SE, though possibly better than Camrys with standard suspenders (I havent had much time behind the wheel of those vehicles). I am generally impressed by the Sonatas ride, but surprised by the amount of impact noise and thump from the rear suspension. The Sonata also has very nicely executed brakes and VSC integration- brake pedal feel represents a nice spot between soft and firm, and the VSC allows for some play. However, many of the rentals I've had lack the directional stability which I think should be expected from an ABS system; hard stops require a good deal of attention and correction at the wheel to maintain a straight stop. This is something I also noticed in the 2 Azeras I had.
The best thing about this Sonata is the very willing and able V6, which is an absolute delight, despite the disappointing MPG. Easily, the best engine at the price point, if you don't mind the thirst.
Recently ordered a stack of C/D magazines on ebay for like $5.00, all from 1986. These are literally plastered with ads for the frighteningly tin looking Excels. Damn, how far Hyundai has come. Kudos.
-my .02 for now
~alpha
???? What are you trying to say?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
agreed, can you imagine how well the Fusion, for example, might have sold if it simply had the Hyundai 3.3 liter drivetrain; or for that matter, the 500 with the Azera's 3.8?
:shades:
Hyundai needs to dial in more caster into the front end. If someone was to investigate the standard amount of caster in the stock Sonata, I'll bet anything this is the culprit, and may easily be fixed in tweaking the front-end alignment.
You cut corners and that's what you get - what you pay for.
Yep, you get what you pay for: a 2007 Honda Accord EX-L V6 at a TMV of $27,440 or a 2007 Toyota Camry LE V6 at a TMV of $25,500. And, a comparably-equipped 2007 Sonata Limited for $18, 470 (typical real dealer's quote). There's already a TSB on the "Ka-Thump" rear suspension anomaly only present in the V6 models - new shocks and bushings. Yes, the Sonata is far from perfect - neither are the Accord and the automatic transmission & DBW-plagued Camry, but for the money, it's a decent value.
You quote a 'ripped off' price for the Accord and the low ball quote for the Sonata. But I agree with you - the Sonata is far from perfect.
17,560 out the door for a manual model, including delivery/freight charge.($595) So it's $16,965 plus freight if you want a comparison to other dealers/ads.
Now this is a good car. A 2006 Model could be had, new, for a couple of thousand less. And it's still an Accord - just without the cush and bling. It completely pummels the Hyundais and budget boxes. I'd take sparse quality over loaded cheapness anyday.
And other than the rear swaybar being missing(easy to put back on) and having mounts for two speakers in the rear($50 at best-buy, wiring is already there), it's identical in how it drives with the pricier models.
And most of all, it has the same manual gearbox found on the top-end models. Its worlds better than anything other than maybe a couple of year old Celiga in how the gearbox works. Very smooth and slick. Zero "rubber" or hunting.
Oh well - it's 16,910 today and that's including the delivery charge. I've seen Honda have a $1000 rebate before as well, so 16K even is possible if you time it right.
AND half of them are made in Japan, which is another definite plus, as the Japanese are white-glove anal about their cars. They'll look at a Caddy and shake their head at how poor the fit and finish is, then do the exact same thing to a Lexus. Now, they do build the same car as in the U.S., but quality control is a notch or two crazier. (good thing when we're talking about mass produced anything, though)
This is something I am very fussy about, I do not like when the seat cushion is too short. I only took a short test drive in the Sonata and felt the seat was not quite deep enough to suit me. It also lacked telescoping steering wheel, though that is available on some trim levels.
The Mazda6 has a nice deep, comfortable seat. Fusion (at least in the S trim level) and Accord also seemed to me to have sufficiently deep and comfortable seats.
Welcome back! Here's the summary:
Hondas are overrated
Volkswagens are overpriced
Fords and Chevys are junk
Hyundias are cheap
Toyotas are boring
Nissans and Mazdas are harsh
the automotive media is bias against the domestic makes
the domestic makes suffer from past misgivings
and Pat probably has migraines trying to keep us in line
Love the summary.
But you are, and you found a good one. I checked one out a while back, and the dealer only had 1. Didn't seem like they were ready to sell a bunch of 'em.
I thought the V6 was the way to go in the 6 tho.
It is a manual shift, but not noisy or high reving unless you are flat out racing. I got two speeding tickets last year so I am definitely not racing. 75 mph is less than 3000 rpm.
The Sonata quote was not a "low ball quote." Rather, you can drive to Pugi Hyundai in Downers Grove, IL and buy as many 2007 Sonata Limiteds you want at that price.
Yes, the Sonata is not perfect, but it's pretty darn good for the average driver. You can't begin to even touch it for the price you would have to pay for an Accord EX-L V6 or the Camry LE V6. Show me where you can buy either of the two aformentioned Hondas or Toyotas for less than $18.7K. You can barely buy a Civic LX for that amount these days. And, let's not even discuss how imperfect the 2007 Camry is - just go over to the Camry forum, and you will find out.
Let's face it, there are Hyundai haters, and no matter how good a car and/or value it is, it would never matter. Your loss is our gain . . .
I sense more that meateater (among others) isn't so much a Hyundai hater as he/she is unconvinced that the brand is pound for pound (not dollar for dollar) on par with a CamCord. Not everybody is looking for the cheapest vehicle in its class.
Motorweek.org picked the Honda Civic for Best Small car of 2006, and the Hyundai Sonata for Best Midsized(family?) Sedan of 2006, then you get anohter magazine, show, etc, saying Hyundai= trash.
Go figure!
I drove a new Optima, and thought it was better than the same I-4 Sonata(has 5 speed automanual vs 4 speed on Sonata, for example, and better MPG).
I drove the brand new Sebring(it looks good, in Some colors, and not ugly like in the internet pix). The I-4 base sedan. Automatic. 173HP. Not Bad.
I'd take it over say a Malibu, or maybe even a Fusion(or Accord/Sonata/Camry).
But, that could be because it's a new vehicle.
GEMA engined.
Not bad.
take care/not offense.
and for the record, over the last few pages, I haven't seen any people coming out and saying that they hate the sonata, but just expressing what charcteristics they don't like about it. it seems like the hyundai-holics are a bit sensitive to opinions that others have that differs from theirs...most everyone here thinks the sonata is a good value but when it comes to spending a lot of money on one, some would rather buy a car that comes closer to their ideal rather than buying one just because it costs a little less up front. this forum doesn't have to have a "you're either with us or you're against us" type attitude; there's enough of that nonsense elsewhere in the world today.
As a point of comparision, $2000/year in a state with high premiums, 4 drivers and 3 cars. Maximum coverage on almost every category.
Look up the TMV of the car you're driving now and compare it to what you paid. What you paid is quite a bit lower, heh. Did anyone accuse you of lying for what you paid for your car?
There's no doubt on average people pay less for Sonatas then they do for Accords and Camrys. It's just that at times the difference is exaggerated. Like comparing the actual negotiated price of the Sonata with TMV price of the Accord.