Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

louiswei

Wow, yes yes, next time I go buy a car I'll let those consumer ratings at Edmunds tell me which one to buy...OR NOT!! Hyundai sells about 100K Sonatas per year and you are using 260 reviews to indicate that it's better than the Camcords? Nevertheless to mention that it beats the Camcords rating by like what? 0.1? 0.2? That is just totally idiotic. If you are trying to tell people that Sonata is the best in class by using those figures...not very convincing. You are going have to do better next time. Nice try though.

As for 0-60 times, I don't have my C&D mag with me right now but I can assure you that Sonata is NOT the fastest in the pack. Also, what kind of test is that for the 600ft? I've never seen any test like that before, please give reference(s).

Reality is that Sonata is NOT THE BENCHMARK YET, period. You can spin it anyway you like but it is still at least another generation (or 2) short to establish its credibility and becomes the class leader.

pat

Just for everyone's information, the ratings listed above are only for the latest model of each vehicle. As you can see, some models have had very few reviews so far (like the Sonata), and others have yet to be reviewed.

You can see all MY reviews by clicking on the "Consumer Rating" link next to each vehicle listed.

ontop

Man - what was I thinking? I should have bought the car you said had 'the highest rank' instead of the one I really wanted.

I can spin the numbers to make the Impala come out 'ahead'.
Bottom line is that the large majority of people buy what they want, not what somebody's 'ranking' suggested they should buy.

bobad

Hyundai sells about 100K Sonatas per year and you are using 260 reviews to indicate that it's better than the Camcords? Nevertheless to mention that it beats the Camcords rating by like what? 0.1? 0.2? That is just totally idiotic

Nobody said any car was better than any other. Consumer satisfaction ratings do not tell you which car is better, nor even imply it. It simply tells you which car the owners are the most satisfied with.

scape2

The quality is there.. just look. Besides The Fusion has been out about a year now with no issues. The 07 Camry has had transmission issues and if you read the posts right here at Edmunds.. :shades:

louiswei

260 samples out of 100K+ owners?

Yeah, that says a lot...

scape2

"Not anytime soon at least. What incentives would buyers have to buy a Zephyr/MKZ if the 3.5 V6 was also offered on the Fusion. Even the luxury flagship MKS is expected to have the same 3.5. If anything, it'd be in the SVT version."

I agree with this %100. If Ford marketing were smart. They would only allow the 3.5 into the MKZ as the standard engine. In the Fusion/Milan they should offer some sort of sport variant. Fusion/Milan should offer 3 choices of engines. 2.3, 3.0, 3.5. Choice is nice.. Some say the 3.0 Duratace is "underpowered" Underpowered by tenths of a second??!! Yet offering great MPG. If anyting they should offer a 6spd manual or manumatic with the 3.0.. That would be nice.

scape2

I have to agree with this guy. Consumers make the difference not the media/writers.

This is what I meant by my saying it takes the media longer to catch on to what consumers are really saying about products and buying. There are so many great sedans in this segment. I would not want to be the person who had to claim a "winner" Winner how? of what? Its all in ones opinion.

louiswei

I have to agree with this guy. Consumers make the difference not the media/writers.

Agreed.

Consumers are making the difference by voting with their money to make Accord/Camry the top sellers of this class year after year.

ctalk

The Edmunds consumer reviews tell nothing. I had a discussion about The number of posts on the problems forum yesterday, and the same theory applies here. The Edmunds consumer reviews are just a sample of the total owner population. This sample may not be an accurate representation. This isn't even a scientific poll.

scape2

Just found a poster who paid over $4,000 more for his Toyota Camry like optioned to my Fusion. He has stability control, blue tooth and MP3 that I don't have, along with 39 more HP.. Is it worth it? Now, I hope his resale is better, it had better be!! :surprise:

ace35

Fusion/Milan should offer 3 choices of engines. 2.3, 3.0, 3.5.

My hope would be for ford to drop the 3.0L altogether and just utilize the 2.3L I4 and 3.5L V6 engines. The 3.0L has served ford well, but has become long in the tooth. Once ford ramps up production of the new 3.5L engine, there should be no need for the 3.0L. Its said that the 3.5L will achieve similar if not the same economy as the 3.0L and since the 3.5L is a compact design it will fit in the same space as the 3.0L.

lahiri

Not really. You need to ask those who switched from Hyundai to something else as well. And, also those who picked something else over Hyundai. Those who picked Hyundai in recent past are not representative of average shopper - they represent Hyundai lovers.

backy

So if someone bought a 2006/7 Sonata as their very first Hyundai, they are a "Hyundai lover"? How do you figure that? Maybe they shopped around and liked multiple cars, but wound up buying the Sonata for whatever reason, be it value, or warranty, or interior room, or some other aspect.

As far as customers switching from Hyundai... are you aware of Hyundai's customer retention rates and how they compare with others? Would it surprise you to know that Hyundai ranks 5th in the industry in customer retention, according to JD Power?

lahiri

I see your point.

Here's what I feel. It's easy to say Camry outsells Sonata. But then you can say that Hyundai doesn't have as many dealers. Hyundai is now highly ranked in JD Power and other studies and the products look better. Still, I wouldn't buy a Hyundai. If Hyundai can sell as many cars as they do today with less warranty (something like 5-7 years instead of 10 on the powertrain), I will consider one.

Coming back to the topic, Sonata is a great looking midsize sedan.

bhmr59

Hyundai sells about 100K Sonatas per year

Hyundai sold a little over 100,000 Sonatas from 1/1/06 through 7/31/06. There's five more months of sales to be counted.

backy

I am not sure why you would consider having less warranty a reason for buying a car, but to each his/her own. Anyway, you may get your wish soon: HMA execs have said that the 10/100 warranty will go away after the 2008 model year. They could always change there minds, though...

I like the looks of the Sonata also. Except for the Mazda6, it's my favorite in looks among the current mid-sized sedans.

lahiri

10 year warranty, 0% APR, etc. are misleading. If I am stuck 350 miles from my home because of engine gasket problem or a transmission leak, the long warranty or low APR wouldn't make me feel any better.

I owned GM products well before when 0% APR deals started - but never bought one after the deals started (not because anything is wrong with the deal, but because I had serious quality issues with GM products that I owned). Instead I bought a Mazda Protege in 2002 and a CR-V last month. The Protege has been very reliable. I hope the CR-V would be reliable too (since a 7 year/ 100,000 mile extended warranty cost me only $210).

I am a conservative shopper who relies on personal recommendation from friends as well as Edmund's "True Cost to Own" info. I don't care about marketing tricks.

backy

I agree. I'd rather have the 10 year warranty, 0% financing (or really low price), AND solid reliability.

But one common misperception is that the Sonata and Hyundais in general are unreliable now because of the long warranty that Hyundai offers. The warranty "marketing trick" is there to help buyers get past the perception of unreliabililty due to Hyundai's less-than-stellar past in that regard. And I am very happy to take advantage of that "marketing trick" just as long as it's available!

lahiri

I will be trading in the Protege for a midsize sedan in next 1 or 2 years. I feel a bit encouraged now to test-drive Sonata. But while comparing with other cars in the class, I will ignore the long-warranty that comes with it. Currently, Mazda6/ Altima/ Accord are on my mind; and, I will also ignore any promotions on them as well.

jeffyscott

10 year warranty, 0% APR, etc. are misleading. If I am stuck 350 miles from my home because of engine gasket problem or a transmission leak, the long warranty or low APR wouldn't make me feel any better.

I think I would feel a little better than I would if there were no warranty remaining.

Now, I would feel a lot better about the leaky gaskets ($1500-1700 repair) on my Ford Windstar that is 9 years old with 98,000 miles, if Ford would pay for the repair. Instead Ford paid for the repair of the same parts on the same 3.8L engines, if the engine were installed in certain other vehicles...but they will not pay when the engine is in one of their Windstars :mad: .

backy

...I will also ignore any promotions on them as well.

Excuse me, I am having trouble understanding your thinking here. There are many good cars in this class. What if it turns out that more than one of them cross the bar for you, or maybe you even like a couple of them equally as well. Wouldn't it matter to you if one car costs a few thousand bucks less than the other car because of incentives, or one offers 0% financing, or one has a much longer/better warranty than the other? Sure, you have to like the car first, but why ignore all promotions? They could materially affect your TCO.

lahiri

Well, I don't think you'll get 0% APR on Accord or a 10 year warranty. Typically, the vehicles you want don't come with great deals.

I have side seat mounted airbags on Protege, and curtain and side seat mounted airbags on my CR-V. I also have ABS on both. But I don't have features like leather, Bose stereo or Navigation. I saved by avoiding these fancy features. I believe the best way to save is to give up fancy features; buying the "second best" in my mind is hard for me.

lahiri

The tranny repair cost is probably more than the resale value of your Windstar. Trade it in when the new Edge arrives

backy

Actually, there are great deals available on Accords due to Honda-to-dealer incentives that allow dealers to sell the cars for way under invoice or offer excellent lease deals on them. I have often seen low APR financing on Hondas, including Accords. I guess I should avoid Accords then because of these incentives, and look only for cars that are going for full MSRP? Sorry, I just don't follow your reasoning.

You yourself gave testamony to the value of a long warranty--you paid extra to get one! Why pay extra if you don't need it, due to the great quality of the car? Or because the warranty is included with the car?

"Second best" is relative. For me, the Protege wss "second best" (to a Hyundai) because of its harsh ride. You can save by giving up fancy features, but you can also save by buying the lowest-priced car that meets your needs--even if it happens to have special incentives on it.

lahiri

I said: ... "second best" in my mind. I knew this "best" is more of personal bias. Also, I bought CR-V $400 below invoice. I don't compare prices. CR-V, 4 cyl RAV-4, VUE, Tucson are all in the same price range and I just picked the one I liked most. Negotiating for the price and getting the financing comes after that.

The 7 year/ 100,000 mile warranty on CR-V was just $210. This is not just a powertrain warranty. This is a mechanical failure warranty (excludes wear/ tear like tires, brakes, batteries). I bought the warranty from GEICO, my insurance company. The low cost of the warranty indicates the reliability of the vehicle and sort of makes me think that I made a good choice.

A manufacturer provided long warranty is no substitute for reliability of the vehicle. Dodge's 7 year warranty or Hyundai's 10 year warranty don't make me comfortable. Toyota, Honda, Nissan can sell cars without such long warranties.

killerbunny

Regarding Just found a poster who paid over $4,000 more for his Toyota Camry like optioned to my Fusion. He has stability control, blue tooth and MP3 that I don't have, along with 39 more HP.. Is it worth it? Now, I hope his resale is better, it had better be!!

Whether the Camry is indeed worth $4000 more than your Fusion, I do not know. But I can assure you that the Camry's resale will be much better than the Fusion(in terms of % of original price), even with the useless fancy craps. Toyota has earned their name, with persistent dedication.

backy

How did you know all those SUVs were in the same price range if you don't compare prices? Oh, never mind. Everyone has his own process. It's just a lot different than the process I use, as I consider price in my decision, once a car has met all my other requirements.

I paid $0 for the 5-year bumper-to-bumper and 10-year powertrain warranty on my Hyundai. I guess the low cost of the warranty indicates the reliability of the vehicle and sort of makes me think that I made a good choice.

Did you think less of Honda when, a few years ago, they increased their powertrain warranty from 3 years to 5 years? Or do you think less of Infiniti because they offer a longer warranty than does Nissan? Or Lexus, because their warranty is longer than Toyota's? Yes, companies like Honda can sell cars w/o long warranties. Then folks like you have to shell out extra money to get the peace of mind that comes with a long warranty.

jimmy81

Then folks like you have to shell out extra money to get the peace of mind that comes with a long warranty.

I owned an Accord for 4 years and a Camry for 5 and never had a single thing ever go wrong with either car.

I'll take that performance to heart more than someone throwing a 10 year warranty at me to earn my business.

joe97

Backy, I believe HMA will continue its 10/100 warranty...we'll see soon enough

And, as a follow-up, just for the record, HMA exec has stated since the 10/100 warranty was introduced in the US, warranty costs have reduced by half (you can also see similar results and improvements in various studies from reputabale organizations). Obviously this is not just some marketing gimmicks some people percept to believe. Hyundai builds quality/reliable cars. PERIOD.