Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

ctalk

Does this have any relevance to midsize sedans?

Since we're on the subject of safety.

Here is the current placement IIHS has for midsize sedans.
link title

From First to Last:
Subaru Legacy
Volkswagen Passat
Audi A3
Volkswagen Jetta
Chevrolet Malibu
Honda Accord
Mitsubishi Galant
Volvo S40
Hyundai Sonata
Pontiac G6
Nissan Maxima
Suzuki Verona
Nissan Altima
Chevrolet Malibu
Pontiac G6
Mazda 6
Dodge Stratus
Chrysler Sebring
Ford Fusion

thegraduate

No car line will go completely untroubled, and the Accord is not left out, but many specific cases HAVE been bulletproof, however (i.e. my 1996 LX has cost around $300 in 10.5 years in repairs; maintenance not incl.). My 2006 EX has the sunroof creak that the Accord has had since 2003; so not perfect!

ftrain

More interesting info. Thank you again everybody. This is more helpful than you realize.

It's also occurred to me now that perhaps I should consider leasing. Does leasing a midsize make sense, or do you only lease luxury cars? And is any manufacturer particularly known for good lease terms?

I guess I feel like it should be a consideration because we have very tight cash flow short-term, but my expectation is that within a few years things will ease up and we likely should have the ability to buy a nicer car. I guess what I mean is that I'm not sure I want to dive into a Civic right now, or a mid-size that I like but don't honestly love, for the short-term and then turn around and sell the thing to buy a better car in a few years anyway. Maybe worth considering. But then, I know everybody says you shouldn't buy (or lease) a monthly payment, but rather a total price.

I don't want this to devolve into a leasing vs. buying discussion because I know it's not the place, but it is something I guess I'm also thinking about for whatever I choose in this class.

pat

Here ya go, ftrain - this should be helpful to you: our Leasing vs. Purchasing discussion. Also I think you'll find some excellent information here: Leasing Tips. That second link will take you to some terrific articles on our main site.

I'm not meaning to run you off, but these are two great resources and when the subject of leasing vs. purchasing comes up in a discussion such as this one, it does tend to fragment the conversation. You'll get a much fuller picture of the pros and cons by utilizing the places that are dedicated to the subject.

So check out those links and keep us posted!

kwonc71

Good news then. I just got 06 Sedona 2 weeks ago.

tinatina

Can you elaborate on what exactly went wrong? I had a 2000 Accord LX sedan and put over 62k miles before trading it in for the 2004 Accord LX. So far, for 2004, I had the air bag recall and motor mounts replaced as part of a factor recall/dealer bulletin. No other problems and I put on 24,000 miles. It also gets very good gas mileage of about 27 miles in mixed city/freeway. By far these two vehicles were the best I have ever owned.

fsowirles

Once again, this is a discussion of Mid-Size sedans.

elroy5

I bought a truck to haul stuff, when I have stuff to haul, and for my short trip to work (less than 5 miles). It is a manual, and I don't see what people like about manuals. Yes, they can be fun, sometimes. But 95% of the time they are a pain in the you know what. I got the truck with the manual, because the 4cyl engine would have absolutely no power, if it was an auto. The few times I do take the car to work, it is so much nicer, and easier. I don't have to constantly shift it, and I can sit and actually drink my cup of coffee in the morning. If manual transmissions were so great, why did they invent the automatic? Because it was better, that's why.

backy

I can see where a manual is no fun on a truck. Now, put a slick manual (e.g. Accord) into a car with a happy-to-rev engine, and it can be a lot of fun. Unless of course you spend your time in the car crawling in bumper-to-bumper traffic. Then I'd go with the automatic.

scape2

I owned a Honda and I went to a domestic... :confuse: and I have been fine...

scape2

Just thought I would mention some of these sedans were tested without side air bags... How can the Malibu finish 5th and 14th? :confuse:

shipo

"If manual transmissions were so great, why did they invent the automatic?"

Because people are either lazy or drinking coffee when they should be driving. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

elroy5

Your post proves two things. 1. you've done a lot of unnecessary shifting. 2. you've had some lousy cars. A Labaron and a Probe. OMG

choe13

i think now we can put the accord rear copying to rest. Actually all of hyundais new car programs have cues from this gorgeous protoype. There is no denying the new sonata takes cues from this cars front and back.

bobad

Said another way, there ain't nothin' that any of those metropolitan areas can throw at me that would make me wish I had an automatic transmission.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I don't dislike manual trannies. You don't need to sell me on their merits. I've owned 2 cars with manuals, and they have their charm. All I'm saying is that very few people prefer manuals, and they usually grow up and end up with an automatic. Sales records prove it, so arguing does no good. Just look at the ratio of manual to slush box sales. The most important reason for not buying a manual is that it's hard to drink coffee while stirring gears.

shipo

Lots of unnecessary shifting? That's funny, IMHO I haven't done enough shifting. ;-)

I've had some lousy cars? Yo dude, this ain't the place for casting stones, you might just find that they get cast back. BTW, the LeBaron GTC was a very limited production car with a very hot motor and lots of non-LeBaronesque goodies. Funny thing, I bought that car over the 325i of the same year. Why? It was the better car. Then there's the Probe. Yup, worst car I've ever owned, fun to drive though. That thing was such a problem that I only kept it for 18 months before getting the Passat.

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

"The most important reason for not buying a manual is that it's hard to drink coffee while stirring gears."

You know what? I think you've hit on the very point as to why I'll never "grow up and end up with an automatic." I hate coffee. :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

fsowirles

I had a '93 Probe GT manual. What a hoot to drive. Not to mention the thrill of leaving Mustang 5.0 in the dust with my HKS bolt ons. The car had it's issues, but that Mazda 2.5 was a decent foundation engine and the car was a blast to drive.

tallman1

Wow... now I know why I always buy manuals... I hate coffee too.

Although, when I'm stuck in stop and go traffic, I never seem to have a problem drinking water. Come to think of it, I manage to get a drink if I'm not in traffic too.

krzyss

I prefer manuals and coffee might not exist for me.
Is there a pattern?

Krzys

jimmy81

I'm not puting the Accord ripoff to rest. It's way too close a resemblance. I guess Hyundai liked what they saw in it. Actually its the best view of the car, because the rest of the 'styling' is aweful. Something from the mid-90s.

shipo

Well folks, there you have it, now all we need to do is to solve world hunger and poverty and we can call it a day. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kdhspyder

It shows the importance of the SAC A/B to the IIHS. 14th without them and 5th with them.

ftrain

Pat,
Thanks. I definitely didn't want to detour the conversation here, and appreciate the links. I've read some of the leasing vs. purchasing discussion, but hadn't found the leasing tips articles before and I'm grateful for you pointing me toward them. Very helpful.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone. I feel better informed about the mid-sized cars out there, and think I know the research I need to do before I head out to do some test drives.

thegraduate

Yeah, It's a copy of an 03 Accord. It looks nothing like that lemon-colored-concept.

petomlin

Speaking strictly about the exterior of the cars: The Sonata has sharper lines, especially in the front end, from the wind sheild forward. This makes the Sonata far more attractive to my eyes.
As always, 'style' is a totaly subjective concept, and is purely a matter of taste and/or opinion. To each his own.

thegraduate

I don't think either one is ugly, in fact I like the Sonata just as well as the 03-05 Accord (which is quite well!). I like the 06 Accord better though.

pat

You're very welcome.

We also have leasing question discussions for all of the models we're discussing here (or if we don't, one will be added for the asking). Check out the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences board when you're ready.

If I can help you find anything else, feel free to drop me an email. Good luck - let us know how it goes.

cal_cal

I agree that the Sonata is a copy of the Accord. Just the other day I saw a Sonata that I mistook for an Accord and had to do a double take to confirm. No questions there, it is a copy.

meateater

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Nice copy of the Accord rear, but the Sonata front end is aweful. Redo that and the slide off front driver's seat for a big improvement that will capture more sales.

hansienna

Put Hyundai Sonata badges on a Toyota Camry or Corolla, Honda Accord or Civic, or Mazda 6.

backy

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Interesting how Lexus copied the Sonata on their new sedans--look at the rear ends of those cars. Maybe Lexus heard that the Sonata is quieter than even the new Camry, so they figured they'd better start imitating Hyundai.

ace35

i wouldnt go as far to say the sonata is a copy of the accord, the only part of the car that even resembles the accord is the rear. And in my opinion it looks much better than the accords, which was often the subject of critisism. (hince the redesign) People just give credit when its due, the sonata is clearly a high quality car with run of mill styling that fits in just like any other accord or camry not a copy of anything.

goodegg

Yea - sure.

fsowirles

Haha, that's rich.

choe13

but some of you folks may have a shape disorder syndrome if there is ever such a thing. Go back to the last page and see how the back shape of the lights are idential to that of the hdc8 prototype. Just because the bottom part of the light is white and top is red, that is ludicrous to call it the accord copy, i mean how many cars have the red on top and white strip on the bottom?

And the one last part that is even weirder to figure out is,this seden looks so much more like the audi(especially side profile and lower bottom end where the exhaust are than the accord.

Basically lets put it this way, the accord is hurting right now, and i think i can sense some jealously. =]

kdhspyder

Except for price the Hyundai remains firmly in 4th place behind the Camry, Accord and new Altima. What's there to be jealous about?

choe13

look at the sales total from starting this year. the sonata is right at the top with those other brands. Its very close.

backy

Let's see... it's rich when someone points out the similarity between Lexus and Hyundai, and suggests that Lexus copied Hyundai, but it is perfectly reasonable that just because the Sonata has horizontally-oriented taillamps, Hyundai intentionally copied the Accord--a car that was blasted for its rear-end styling. Yeah, right.

alpha01

There was much talk about a month ago regarding an article which detailed just how Hyundai is achieving sales. Right now, whether reasons are valid or not, Hyundai is running 30% + of Sonata sales to Fleets, and incentives are above the industry average... this 12 months into a 5 year model run.

I would have love to have seen this car sell itself on its inherent goodness as a family sedan... of which it has much ground to stand on. I just hope the vehicle line isnt damaged down the road as a result of the company trying to make VERY ambitious sales projections.

~alpha

tinatina

I read the same article, it will also impact resale value. Also, Hyundai is bringing forth the 2007s in the next few months. According to Hyundai, the "prices will be adjusted".

This is a very good looking vehicle and there are many on the road, and reliability is there, but its too bad that Hyundai may have gotten a bit ahead of themselves.

bhmr59

I just saw pix of the new Camry. Looks pretty nice, except I don't care for the nose.

It does look like the new Camry copied the rear of the Sonata in the pictures I saw, except the Camry only had single exhaust like the 4 cyl Sonata.

kdhspyder

This is what killed GM's midsized autos because everyone who travelled in the last 4 yrs got the basic Maliboo that was manufactured for the rental fleet. The impression left in people's minds was 'This is a rental car, I don't want to buy a rental car and put it in my driveway'.

As good as the Sonata is it has to get away from selling to fleets or it will never get out of the shadow of being considered only 'cut-rate wheels'.

kdhspyder

4c's have singles.. V6's have duals.

That's the only way you can tell if it's one or the other. The 'V6' badging is gone.

elroy5

Lexus copying Hyundai. That's like BMW copying Kia. The Sonata has a long way to go, in proving itself. Let's see how well they're holding up 5 years and 100,000 miles down the road. Initial quality (JD Powers) means little to me. I want to know it will last, and still be reliable later on in it's life.

choe13

"I just saw pix of the new Camry. Looks pretty nice, except I don't care for the nose.

It does look like the new Camry copied the rear of the Sonata in the pictures I saw, except the Camry only had single exhaust like the 4 cyl Sonata."

Honestly i don't think car companies who want to be legit care about copying other car companies. When the sonata came out, do you think toyota had time to develop a new tailight style?? same goes for hyundai when the accord came out 2002 and the 2006 sonata was in development since 2001. A differently styled tailights could believe or not affect the whole design elament of the car.

If i want to be childish i could just say if it weren't for ford, cars wouldn't exist anyways, so all cars after are a copy since it has a body and 4 wheels, lets get real now

bhmr59

Perhaps my spoof of all those who accused the Sonata of copying the Accord rear end went over some heads!

w9cw

I don't think anyone's mentioned the new Camry's tail lights. Sure looks like a homolgation-copy of the previous generation Accord's and 2006 Sonata's. They certainly aren't original either. And, only a mother could love the front end of the new Camry. It will grow on us, sure, but it's still ugly.

Except for the rear, the Sonata doesn't resemble the Accord at all, especially the massive and sloping hood of the Accord. As it's supposed to be, it resembles the Audi A6, especially front the side, as well as the Passat from the side - which in my opinion is far superior of a design that either an Accord or Camry.

backy

That was in the past--what are Sonata's fleet sales now? Also, the incentives on the Sonata have been significantly reduced since the article you reference was published. Do you have up-to-date info on how the Sonata's incentives compare now to the industry average? Now, the max incentive on the 4-cylinder Sonatas is $1000 (down from $2500), and that's only if you are a Hyundai owner. The max incentive on the 6-cylinder models is $2500 now, down from $3000 (take off another $500 if not a Hyundai owner).

Maybe when the 2007 models come out in the near future, you will get a chance to see the car sell itself based on its inherent goodness. I expect incentives for the '07s, especially the V6s, will decrease.

joe97

I see more A6 than anything (if I had to choose a model to compare to). By the way, Sonata's design froze before the Accord came out so copying is all but out of question. By the way, the A6 came about because Hyundai literally took apart an A6 modeled after (not copying).

Let's move on and discuss merits of these cars.