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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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But seriously, didn't dimming the dash lights help reduce any eye strain? I'd think the contrast would be even more helpful at night. But that may just be my 57 yr old eyes. (I need glasses for close up but glasses distort everything more than a few feet away. Can't address a golf ball wearing glasses.
The accords interior is good, but its too black, where is some creativity ?? but i know honda can do better, man does the new acura rdx look good. i would never purchase any suv's , i just dun like driving that high up, but this car looks good on the inside and out.
Getting back to topic, i personally like the sonatas interior best, it has a more european atmosphere and buttoned down look
What I said about the Sonata GLS' cloth in my review of that car (remember, it was a take-off on a prize fight, Accord vs. Sonata) was:
You could say the Sonata threw in the towel in this round, folks, [SIDE NOTE: that was an attempt at humor] with the terrycloth-like surface in its light gray interior. But the material is comfortable and grippy. Some might prefer the smoother cloth of the GL model.
I wouldn't call that being too critical. If you don't like a surface that feels a little like terrycloth, then of course you won't like it. I am OK with it. As I said, it is comfortable and grippy.
BTW, here is what I said about the Accord's (EX) cloth interior in the same review:
The Accord is dressed in black mouse fur, with colored flecks--which reminds this reporter of the black cloth in the previous-generation base Sonata.
In terms of the Accord, no, I do not own one, but I have taken trips in the vehicle, from PA to Maine, for example, which do represent "extended" periods of time.
I am fine with your opinion, what I am not fine with is double standards of measurement regarding what constitutes a valid opinion. It seems to me a very liberal interpretation of the term "extended period" of time if all you've had is three test drives.
And, you've still failed to present the posts on the 2007 Camry thread which criticize the Camry LE cloth material.
~alpha
The question is... do you prefer th smoother, (and in my opinion, seemingly more upscale cloth) of the GL? You are "OK" with the Sonata GLS cloth... what does this mean? In comparison to the Accord you also tested... sure, it reminds you of the prev. gen Sonata... but is that a good or a bad thing?
~alpha
Is it a good thing that the Accord's (this was a '05 EX remember) cloth interior reminded me of a car that could be had for $13k at the time (stick shift base '05 Sonata) and was designed in the mid-90s? No.
You state I never presented any proof from the thread. You never requested that I do that in your previous posts. People who are losing an argument tend to change the question. You go to the camry 2007 thread and there are several posts on this issue since you are the one hot and bottered by this issue.
I will not comment further on this issue.
I have a right to comment
Here's why I say you have a double standard: you have driven the new Camry 3 times, and thus, you have valid "extended" experience with said vehicle. I have taken road trips and many short jaunts around the Philly area in an 05 Accord EX coupe, and yet, because I do not own the car, my experience is not valid. That makes no sense!
"People who are losing an argument tend to change the question" Um what? No. Proof needn't be requested. Look at any of backy's posts; makes a claim, backs it up.
I will be happy to go to the 2007 Camry thread and take a quick survey of perception on the interior of the vehicle.
Thank you for your superiority and enlightening contributions.
~alpha
Is that valid enough? :P
Not always, but on many occasions it is, such as when you're trying to pass on the highway, or trying to get up to speed on a ridiculously short uphill onramp (there are quite a few of those around in my area).
The 2007 Camry V6 produces 268 horses (SAE), and yields EPA figures of 22/31, with R/T testing acceleration from 0 to 60 at 6.1 seconds. So, over a second and a half quicker (no C/D times available yet), and 2 to 3 MPG better.
Is 268 horses better than 190? Sure seems like it.
~alpha
I was actually hoping that Toyota would have considered setting new standards in the segment, and using the 2.5L 204 horse (SAE) V6 as the base engine, but I'm sure that would just cost too much. Wishful thinking. Still, it would have been a viable alternative to the 2.4L 158 horse unit in terms of economy, and would kick the 4's [non-permissible content removed] in terms of performance... the 3350 lb Lexus IS FWD was recently tested by Consumer Reports at 7.7 seconds to 60 with the 6A, and at 24 MPG overall fuel economy- the same as CR's last Camry 4.
~alpha
Also, it would be interesting to see the effect of VCM on the new, efficient Toyota V6s. They might get into the upper 30s on the highway.
That is what I am thinking. Once you reach a certain HP level, then using technology to improve fuel efficiency may become a higher priority. If gas reaches $4/gallon more people will start thinking this way.
Backy- the Lexus 3.0L in the GS is very new- it is part of the same engine family as the Lexus-exclusive (right now) 2.5L in the IS, the Toyota-everywhere 3.5L... Interesting note is that this family first debuted with the torque-biased 4.0L in the 2003 4Runner. All differently bored/stroked versions of the same engine family. Tuning also plays a key, as the 3.5L in the Avy, Camry, etc... produces 268 horses, about 272 on premium fuel (ES350) and 306 horses on premium in the IS350. Also, this is Toyotas first engine family that has been used in BOTH FWD/AWD and RWD applications All figures in this paragraph are SAE certified, fwiw.
~alpha
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Modern IC engines are just about at the end of the road for gas mileage. The best engines in the mid-sized sedans may be able to improve 2-3 MPG, but that's about the practical limit for all of them. To get a really significant mpg improvement... 5, 10, or even 15 mpg better, cars will have to shed weight. We have the technology to drop the weight of a 3400# car by 1200# just by substituting light weight alloys and composites for steel. A 1200# weight reduction would easily get you a 10 mpg improvement without loss of performance. But will it ever be expensive!
I guess most Americans are like me in that they can tolerate ~10 cents per mile before they start asking for serious mileage improvements. Starting about now, mileage will jump to near the top of the buyer's check list.
How many miles have you put on your new Camry?
And even if you did push the ES330 (at 215 horses) to redline, it still couldnt outaccelerate the new Camry V6...
~alpha
A BMW 330 has more hp and torque than that!
Plus a fast loaded Camry? Isn't the Camry a family sedan with the image of a choir boy? To each his own but I don't see the point in wanting the pimped out family sedan vs the true sports car.
I'd bet he meant a 3 series Bimmer.
The true sports car?
Umm, has anyone over 6' tried to ride in the back seat of a 3-series? If you EVER carry passengers and don't have $40k+ to throw around on a car, you'll know why he picked the Camry. Plus, he'll save a ton on insurance, and he'll also be the guy who blows past you when you get a ticket, because the cop is going for the guy in the Bimmer, not the Camry.
Fsowireles, you better watch yourself. No racing now.
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To explain why I'm 18 and have a brand new car:
My parents told me, when I went into the 9th grade, that if I managed to get a full scholarship to college, they would take that money and buy me a car, since they were going to pay for my school anyway. Well, I am within $300 per year of having a full ride to UAB, so last November, they came through for me and surprised me with my 2006 Accord. I'm such a creature of habit though, I drive my 1996 Accord LX with a go-zillion miles on it every day to school. I guess it is a good thing to do financially, because it will mean that in ten years, I'll have less mileage on my 2006. I'm not losing value by putting miles on my 1996, because it is knocking on the door of 160,000 miles now. No value to lose there.
I love the design of the IS350, which is why I'd love to have one. But, due to size constraints and the fact that I'm not independently wealthy, I drive an Accord EX-4. I love it though!
BTW, my parents were originally going to buy me a new 2006 Civic, but my grandmother would not let them put me in something that small, so she paid the difference in the Civic EX and Accord EX, about $3500! She has worked 52 years (age 71, STILL WORKING!), spends basically nothing, and loves to give. She gave me my 96 Accord back in 02, in fact.
Did I mention that being the only grandchild is great? :shades:
I told my oldest son that if he gets a full scholarship (ROTC or other), I will... fold the money in his 529 account into the 529s for his brother and sister!!
-juice
My 95 Accord is sitting in the driveway waiting for my son to turn 16 next month. It is making sense to hang onto it for him to use. He's still got some practicing to do on the stick though! (Another reason why I passed on a very good deal for an 06 automatic... he'd want to drive the new one!)
Options:
Sunroof
Leather & heated seats
Navi
Heated OS mirrors
With everything on it - loaded - it should be near $31000
XLE V6 is ~$31700 List
To me, it will be better to buy non hybrid cars for $10,000 less and save for alternative fuel cars. Recent Motor Trend magazine's actual hybrid car test showed those cars do not get EPA MPG anyway. About only 6-8 MPG better than non hybrid cars. Basically, $9,000 Kia Rio get about same MPG as $22,000 Civic Hybrid. By the time you have saved $13,000 on gas by Hybrid cars, we might no longer have Gasoline. In addition, after the warranty, Fuel cell battery problem will cost you bloody fortune.
This subject has been beaten to death on many many forums here and on many many different sites.
Essentially your conclusion is correct .. it makes no sense to buy a hybrid for just the fuel economy unless you drive mega miles every year. The most economical solution is a Kia Rio, Scion xA or even better a 2-3 y.o. Corolla/Civic etc. If your budget is the most critical consideration then buying cheaper makes the most sense.
However....
Many people do not want to drive a compact vehicle, me included - at any price. Others have a concern for the environment on tailpipe emissions and there is no price you can put on that concern. For certain buyers just as some will buy MB's and Lexus' and others only used vehicles, certain buyers want a hybrid vehicle. It's why there are choices for everyone.
The battery issue is dead also. There is no indication and ceretainly no proof that the batteries will die while the vehicle is on the road. Toyota states that they '..should last the life of the vehicle with no deterioration.' After 10 years there are no reports of any NiMH batteries going bad and dying.
2. Never say never. Acura people could not believe my wife's MDX stalling problem with only 50,000 miles. A $40,000 luxury car had that problem, so does a $27,000 car will.