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Comments
We can be subjective on looks but on driving dynamics we have to be a little more objective. A Trailblazer SS will probably run faster to 60 than a Legacy Spec B. But which is really the better driver?
Getting better MPG's is not just about saving a few bucks. It's also about being more environmentally friendly and becoming less reliant on imported oil. If everyone could improve their MPG's by 10%, it would have a significant impact on the price of oil, and would also reduce air polution as well. :shades:
and to those who think it's ok to endanger others on the road by trying to race everyone everywhere: if you really want to compete, do it on an auto-x course or drag strip. there's enough bad drivers out there killing loved ones and family members because their pride blinded their common sense. there's a time and a place to compete; a public road is not it.
Sounds like they need a Honda Odyssey, they could get all of that (minus the minivan status)! :-)
My S80 could obliterate any of the other sedans mentioned in a straight line (from the line and running start) but I wouldn't dare take a curve too quickly.
----------------
Yes, I do own a new Sonata. The Camry belongs to a friend, and is gone. I never said it was mine, and you know it.
My Audi started falling apart, so I traded it in on a Mazda626. That was a good car, but noisy as hell. I recently sold it and got the Sonata. I really loved the Quantum (sorry I called it a Passat!). The interior sucked, and it rattled after a couple of years. The exhaust manifold cracked, so I fixed it and traded it in on a Toyota truck, which I still have. I really loved the Jetta, but my wife hated the stick shift, so I traded it in on the Audi. I have yet to sit in more comfortable seats than our Audi.
You and some of the others are putting words in my mouth, BIG TIME. How childish.
You refuse to acknowledge that I have admitted the Sonata is not quite as good a car as the Camry. How disingenuous of you. Grow up.
How DARE anyone compare the panel lines of a lesser breed to a Mercedes! Well, I am. But that's all, just the panel lines.
I drove the Mazda6, and it handled better than the Sonata. But, my wife hated the harsh ride and noise. It's not a mom car. But on the bright side, the Sonata's engine is way smoother and quieter, and if anything, a little more powerful.
About Hyundai quality: Look at the JD Power ratings. The ratings don't prove a lot, but they are a good indicator.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=109710/pageId=692- 76
The best of class? Probably. Worth up to $9000 more to most of the people who will drive these family haulers? I dunno...
Here you go again. The Mazda6 is a better driver's car than the Sonata, just admit it. A BMW 3 Series ride is just as harsh as the 6's. You try to bash the 6 in compariso nto the Sonata without giving credit to the fact THAT THEY ARE FOR TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BUYERS. My goodness. I don't know about smoother, I actually like the 6's peppyness. And I will take the better driving dynmaics over the 14 more horses, it really isn't a big deal to me. Different cars for different buyers.
As Edmund said in its family car comparison last year. The 6 is the only car in the bunch that they would find an excuse just to go drive.
"With its taut chassis, confident steering and predictable handling, the Fusion exhibited a sophisticated-sporty nature that even the best handler of the group, the Honda Accord, lacked. In this regard, the Fusion excels in our group, but like a BMW, the trade-off is that this attribute takes it further away from what some might call a luxurious ride."
That is what was said about the Fusion. Mazda takes the handling beyond that. The advantages to the Mazda over the Fusion are in exterior and interior styling and driving dynamic. To me, the Mazda is a better car. I can't wait to see the New Mazda6 when it comes out next year or so.
I find it funny how now the Fusion is slammed for items that Edmunds liked before. The new Camry took styling from the Mazda 6. Its all over the front grill area. As consumers realize they don't need to spend $$$ for a reliable, functional family sedan, articles like these are going to just go by the wayside. I just laugh.. $5K more to own a Toyota.. not me, no way, no how...
Have no time to read the comparison, but I agree that the Camry should come first. It should since it costs $9000 more. Although, it did come with navigation and a lot of luxury features which the Sonata and Fusion didn't have.
They were making a point about the Sonata's power steering being lost for a moment in the slalom. How often will that happen in real life? It's apparent that as a class, these cars are getting so good that the rankings are due to things that most buyers's won't notice or care about. Yes, the Camry and Accord are fine machines--for those willing and able to pay thousands more for the differences. I suppose we'll see the Accord jump back on top when the new one comes out next year--it only lost to the Camry by a fraction of a point, which is a very good showing for a four-year-old car.
On the Sonata...
One savvy Edmunds.com reader has found a way to add DVD/satellite navigation (see Consumer Commentary) to his Sonata, and we're also told by Hyundai that XM Satellite Radio is on its way, standard on all models by calendar-year 2007. All this equipment for such a reasonable price still drives the value of the Sonata way, way up.
XM radio standard? Does that seem right?
On the Fusion:
Several of our test Fusion SEL's options were standard on the Accord EX, Sonata LX and Camry XLE, including ABS, traction control, airbag curtains and side-impact (thorax) airbags. Some of the cars feature content that isn't even available on the Fusion, like stability control, navigation and satellite radio.
Eventually, the Camry will come down around invoice, and rebates will appear toward the end of the run, if the former generation is any indication.
The Camry did indeed only eek out a win by mere fractions of a point, but the praise in the text flowed very freely from edmunds.com...
"With the anticipation of parents watching their child win a spelling bee with the final letter, we watched the Camry's point total edge out the Accord's by a 0.64 margin. Despite what this might indicate, there really was no dispute regarding which of these four cars should win the comparison."
That says a whole heck of a lot. As does
"Every so often, an automaker produces something so extraordinary that it manages to not only eclipse its own predecessor, but also succeeds in making the competition appear obsolete."
What surprised me most though, were the comments on the Camry's improved handling capabilities.
I'm still not a big fan of edmunds.com comparison tests, what I'd really like to see is a re-match, plus a few more entrants... of the Dec 05 comparo in Car and Driver.
~alpha
Head of the class V6, styling ( admittedly subjective ) will attract a lot of new buyers, continued advancement in refinement, hybrid option all make the Camry the benchmark again in addition to the well known rep for quality and value.
Nothing has been lost in this Gen6 .. much has been gained and Hyundai, Honda and Nissan still have to do more to keep up. Price isnt everything. If it was the CamCords would be sitting on lots with cobwebs on them.. they arent.
Toyota moved the bar again. It's up to the others to catch up in ways other than just price
The market will speak and prices will come down in good order as referenced by alpha01 but this will only make it even more difficult for the others to compete with this new Gen6.
A few comments about pricing: For the proponents of pricing as the primary criteria for purchasing... what if... at some time soon the management of certain companies start saying 'Ok now we have established our good rep. Let's begin to cash in on it and stop giving Toyota & Honda gobs of free money. It's time we began to make big buck like the other two.'
Nissan is normally just behind it's two compatriots
Hyundai is 'leaving tons of money on the table' as the phrase goes.
Ford has some issues it has to deal with concerning the engine and retesting with the IIHS before it can join the others.
Hyundai has a state of the art new plant that may soon rival Georgetown and Marysville. In Ala. it's costs are very likely just the same as HonYota. Either,
a) they are losing money hand over fist to establish the product line. Is it realistic to consider this to go on forever?
b) they are making a nominal profit at the current giveaway prices which as noted are $5000 - $9000 lower than Toyota for example.
The Koreans are very good business people. Did they build this huge beautiful new plant as a gesture of generosity to the people of AL and goodwill toward the American public so that they could give away cars and lose money? Very unlikely.
Are they looking at the volumes of the CamCords ( each double the Sonata's ) and the ~$5000 each CamCord brings above the Sonata and say ' Why not us too? ' Very likely... soon too.
I doubt it, but we Alabamians would certainly appreciate such a gesture! LOL
There IS more to it than just price, ah haa! I've been thinking that the whole time. These 4 autos all compete for the same driver, what I call the "fat middle" of the market. So far, I would say the Sonata is probably stealing more sales away from GM and to some extent Ford (but now they have the Fusion to keep buyers in the fold) than it has from Honda or Toyota. Rightly so, the Sonata is a much better vehicle than anything GM puts out right now, and they compete in the same price class, with rebates and all. Honda and Toyota ARE a step up from the Fusion or Sonata, but the added upfront cost to acquire one is a major factor for many people.
I think you can't go wrong with any of these, but time will tell when it's 3 - 5 years down the road when it comes to resale value. I'm not just talking about dollar value, but also how much each will be desired by the car driving public as a used car purchase. For me, I'm still taking a longer term view and will go for the sure thing (Honda/Toyota) until proven otherwise. :shades:
no mazda6, no altima or maxima... i dont understand their evaluation criteria, and i dont understand why the aforementioned cars weren't included...
Mazda 6 - too small
Nissan Altima - about extinct, new model out in months
Nissam Maxima - in a class w/Avalon, Azera, and Five Hundred, not CamCord, Fusion, Sonata
Nissan Altima - about extinct, new model out in months
Why is the Mazda too small for this comparison? We aren't talking feet, we are talking about a couple inches. The Mazda actually has more space in some dimensions. The Mazda is a niche player and not really in the upper ranks because as I just said, it is a niche player so that may be a reason to keep it out of the comparo.
Now the Altima is a completely different subject. The Altima is being redesigned, but the Accord is also. Why include the Accord and not the Altima. Also in the last comparo between the Sonata, Camry, and Accord, the Altima was left out. Can you remember a car comparo when the Aaltima was included in recent months. Even car and driver left them out of the "Modern Day Heroes" comparo where they had the Jetta GTI, Speed6, TSX, and the Accord. If you're going to include the Accord, how do you not include the Altima?
The Mazda 6 is dimensionally much smaller overall than any of the cars in this comparison test, though it is a vehicle I personally like very much- I'm enjoying my hatchback rental this week, Hertz was unable to provide the Fusion I requested....
~alpha
If you look at the ride category which has individual evaluations in Front Seat Comfort, Back Seat Comfort, Wind & Road Noise, and Rattles & Sqeaks, you see something alarming. The Sonata came in LAST in each category. The rattles and sqeaks thing really gets to me since I keep hearing about the incredible build quality.
And I also don't see how relevant it is to not include the Altima becuase it will be redesigned. Didn't just a coupel months ago they compared the New Sonata to the Camry and Accord. In this instance you are talking baout half a year that will go by before the new Altima hits, they compared the old Cmary when the new one was basically being unvailed and would be out in a couple months.
I say compare what you have because that is what wil lbe relevant to people buying the cars today and tomorrow.
You know good and well if Mazda 6 had been in the comparo and lost out b/c of its small interior, Mazda-ees would be saying (if not necessarily you) that it wasn't fair because the Mazda is a niche player and shouldn't be forced to compete with the more "mainstream" cars that are larger inside.
I didn't say I'D leave it out, just probably a reason that THEY did. I like the 6, personally.
NOTE: Someone asked about the Altima being left out while the Accord is also due for a redesign...this isn't true. The Accord will be new for 2008, while Altimas will be out for 2007. 12 months is a long time.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR??? Are they realize most of family can't afford $30,800 family sedan?
Winner at over $30,000, and that was V6 FAMILY SEDAN COMPARISON? In where I live, I have to pay almost $34,000 after tax and L&D to get that Camry. Edmunds.com have to be more realistic about how much people will spend on Family Sedans. Y they did not also test smaller BMW and AUDI on that comparo while they test the car over $30,000?
Both of editors Second Opinions also make me more wonder how Camry got 1st place.
Senior Content Editor Erin Riches says:
"But as excellent as these two sedans are, there's just no need to spend upward of $28,000 to get one. Both the Hyundai Sonata and Ford Fusion will get the job done for thousands less.
Of these two, the cheaper Sonata would be my pick."
Senior Road Test Editor Josh Jacquot says:
"Bottom line? I'll take the $25,000 Hyundai with its more-than-adequate content and gets-the-job-done performance. Pile on its 100,000-mile powertrain and five-year roadside assistance warranties, and it's probably the smartest buy of the bunch."
I paid $19,500 for my LX Sonata, and that makes about $11,000 price gap in real life. If Toyota throw their best $1,000 rebates, it will still be about $10,000 above Sonata.
Obviously those two editors are retirees who has nothing to do with points.