Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

15455575960235

Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, that "Edit" button is pretty handy, isn't it? ;)

    I have trouble seeing how the difference in shipping from the Fulan plant in Mexico is that much more than the cost of shipping Sonatas from Birmingham. We're talking about rail transport here.

    Also, as was noted by someone else, Hyundai brings in big profits on cars in their home market, which helps offset the rebates/discounts they offer in the U.S. They don't offer that level of rebate/discount in other countries--not even Canada. It isn't reasonable to paint a profit picture for corporation by looking at only one market--albeit a big market.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    the active geometry which is a hyundai patent should make this car better in the handling department more than currently

    It's a good thing, because I've read numerous reviews of how the Sonata felt about like the old Camry in Handling - not very good news.

    On my own little sidebar here for a second; I think a lot of Hyundai owners don't realize that a lot of the "Accord guys and Toyota guys" want Hyundai to do well. It is common sense, that if Hyundai turns on the heat in this competition, then Honda and Toyota must also step up their game further. It would be a great thing for all involved.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Just to correct . . . Camry is manufactured in Georgetown, Kentucky, and now in Indiana as well, under contract at the Subaru plant in Lafayette. Honda is manufactured in Marysville, Ohio.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I have trouble seeing how the difference in shipping from the Fulan plant in Mexico is that much more than the cost of shipping Sonatas from Birmingham.

    The Sonata's are built just south of our capital city (about 5 miles on I-65 S )of Montgomery, AL, not Birmingham (which is the largest city). Just a little note to clarify. It doesn't make much difference to your conversation, so no harm done. (Is there a shipping area that launches from B'ham that I don't know about?)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hi - that's really a conversation for a politically-oriented message board. We're just about cars here. ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Thanks for the correction.
  • thesniperthesniper Member Posts: 44
    "Hyundai is a very rich company

    Rich - at the expense of the people of SK tho. Corruption at the highest levels of the company - $ to pay government officials. Isn't Hyundai and the SK government one in the same anyway? Sonata prices are obviously subsidized by the people of SK since the collusion between Hyundai and the government is apparently rampant. Sonata prices may be headed up.

    I wonder if somebody whacked Chung Mong-koo to silence him...."

    ...telling a story but mentioning only the part where Hyundai looks good.
  • seniorjoseseniorjose Member Posts: 277
    CNN: "The CEO of Hyundai is under arrest by the Korean police. Supposedly he tried to manipulate the company management."

    That's about all I could remember about the CNN scrawl. What is going on? Does this scandal from Hyundai cover up other things?

    Why I am curious is that two years ago the CEO of Mitsubishi was arrested and jailed. It was later determined that he refused to have Mitsubishi autos recalled on internally known serious safety problems. He is now serving time in a Japanese jail.

    Is there other coverups by Hyundai management affecting their autos, I sincerely hope not. Hyuundai doesn't need nose-diving sales as Mitsubishi did. I would hate to see the people in the Hyundai plant laid off because of a scandal in Korea...the impact on the area would be great!

    Of course I would expect this to be censored out just as most of my entries are. Edmunds doesn't even play by their own rules.
  • bassplayerbassplayer Member Posts: 5
    Thanks. The Milan/Fusion aren't quite as sexy as some new cars, but seem to offer real value. Looking forward to seeing the '07.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    That story was on the drudgereport a few hours ago. Drudge links to:

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/27/D8H8C9F80.html

    I didn't read the in-depth report off the "slush fund" link in the story but it seems he is accused of embezzling money from the company in order to set up a slush fund to bribe Korean government officials.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Member Posts: 116
    "Yes, you paid less, and you got less.

    Actually I paid less and got more in my I4 GLS Sonata. I got alloy wheels, four wheel disc brakes, side curtain airbags, ESC, and an MP3 readable cd player which is awesome. I got all this for $17,500 and that price is a little high compared to others.

    I could have gotten a Camry (my first choice until I did the test drives of both vehicles) for $19,100 without the above but I would have gotten a power drivers seat. That is about the only thing the Camry had on the Sonata.

    In the test drive the Sonata was every bit as good if not better than the Camry so the decision was a no brainer. I now have 10,000 trouble free miles on this car and I love it more every day.
  • thesniperthesniper Member Posts: 44
    Pssst... please don't post things like this. As mentioned before, the truth will hurt you.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    If the guy embezzled over $100 million, as the story says he's accused of having done, that would certainly hurt the company.

    I don't see a reference to a news article as negging the Company or it's products.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    The bribery story is unfortunate and interesting, but how does that have anything to do with the Sonata?

    If Fujio Cho were accused of corruption, it wouldn't change the Camry one iota.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Welcome to the wonderful world of big business. 100m isn't a drop in a bucket to a big corporation like Hyundai. Unfortunately, it's just the cost of doing business with a corrupt government.
  • philliplcphilliplc Member Posts: 136
    07 camry LE has side airbags, 4W disc, and MP3 standard.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    we're talking about the cars themselves here. If you want to pursue this article, someone needs to start a discussion (assuming there isn't an appropriate one already) on the Automotive News & Views board.

    Here we are comparing the cars. Not the people who run the company.

    Thanks.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    Attack the car and not politics if u don't like it.

    Honestly this is a great car. My lease will be up by next year, i'm thinking that by then the coupe version will come out, which should be really nice.

    HAs anyone checked out the santa fe or elantras new interior? wow! once that is in the sonata eventually, it will on par with hondayota.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    My wife said she saw an ad in the paper today that said "Honda Santa Fe" for sale. And I see Hyundai Sonata's with Honda "H" lisense plates on the front. Who are these people trying to fool? They might be impressing the idiots who don't know the difference. Hyundai probably gets some of their bussiness because people think it's a Honda, and are too dumb to know the difference.
  • master1master1 Member Posts: 340
    I think people know the difference from Honda and Hyundai. He put the H just so it looks better and for fun.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    Your posts bear an uncanny resemblance to the type of posts made by seniorjose, formerly oldjoe.

    Your last 10 posts have been in this forum...nothing on a site limited to Honda or other makes/models. Nearly everyone of your posts rags on the Sonata, without lodging a specific complaint. Actually, I don't recall you saying anything you specifically like about your '03 Honda.

    But, I won't belabor the point. Others can check your profile and writing style to see if they think elroy5 is a new userID for seniorjose (who recently posted that the host keeps censoring his posts).
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    :Everyone has recalls. It's like that bumper sticker "**** Happens"

    What?? Why are recall ok for Toyota/Honda? and not for Ford/GM? Can you say double standard? :confuse:
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I like the feel of my 03V6 Accord. Very comfortable and stable. I love the passing power. It does pretty good on gas mileage too. (better than my Toyota V6 did). The engine is so smooth, you hardly hear or feel it (unless you want to). I think the Acura TL has better looks, but not worth paying the extra $4,000 to $5,000 more. 4 to 5 thousand is too much to pay for looks IMO. I paid $26,000, and it is worth every penny.

    And by the way, I have no idea who this "oldjoe" person is.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Where did you get these numbers??

    Cost structure: ( let's give them numbers )
    Honda and Toyota lowest ( $12000 ) per unit
    Hyundai in the middle ( $13000 ) per unit
    Ford is the Highest ( $15000 ) per unit

    Sales:
    Honda and Toyota dominate this segment as No's 1 & 2
    Ford was strong and trying to get back to #3
    Hyundai is a fast rising #6

    Pricing: ( See costs above )
    Toyota and Honda typical wholesale price : $20000
    Ford typical wholesale price : $17000
    Hyundai typical wholesale price : $15000

    Profits: ( Who has the best longterm prospects )
    Toyota and Honda 400K units annually $8,000 profit each;
    Ford 300K units annually at $2000 profit each;
    Hyundai 200K units annually at $2000 profit each.

    Do the multiplication:
    Toyota 450K X $8000
    Honda 400K X $8000
    Ford 300K X $2000
    Hyundai 200K X $2000
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Member Posts: 116
    That is a great improvement on the Camry. I was ready to buy in December and the 07 Camry was not out. I thought about waiting for the 07 but then I saw the pictures and didn't like the style one bit (IMO).

    Also, it will take a while before the 07 Camry prices come down from the MSRP as they will be hot over the summer and they are still trying to clear the 06's.

    Now that I have driven this Sonata for 10K miles I am very happy with my decision and am thankful I didn't choose anything else. This is the perfect vehicle for me and for once I got 99.9 % of what I was looking for in a car at a unbelievable price. (About the only thing I would change is the often mentioned addition of a seek control on the steering wheel).
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Simple. My Honda has had one recall. If I brought my chevy truck in for all the recalls I may never get it back. It's a very long list. From seatbelts to seats. What kind of company makes bad seatbelts? It's not like it's high tech, it's a seatbelt. It's pretty sad really.
  • tinatinatinatina Member Posts: 388
    My 2004 Accord had one recall for the airbag cover issue. As far as the tranny issue with the Camry, it appears to be isolated to some units with the 6 speed only. I remember Honda extending my 2000 Accord tranny coverage for 5 or 7 years (can't recall the exact number), but I never had any problems with the 2000 Accord. There was an occassional hard shift. The 2004 Accord's tranny is the most smoothest shifting I have owned to date.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    too bad we don't have this, but korean sonata does have a very attractive looking interior. image
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    image
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    image
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    image

    hyundai is not bringing the best because people won't buy 25k sonata just yet. i think they will bring it sooner or later.

    that interior is as good as accord and camry IMO.
  • driverdmdriverdm Member Posts: 505
    The interior is not as good as the Camry and Accord. The Sonata is a great value but here we go not finding its faults again. The interior plastics are not on the same level as the Camcord, the premium feel is not there. Everything in the Camry is basically meant for it to be just under a Lexus. A Sonata is not the same in that criteria. I will say that the Sonata's panel gaps are just as tight as the Camcords though.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    Driverdm it is puzzling to me that nobody ever said that about the camries interior except for the 07's. They better do it that well, otherwise they would be finished(lets not also forget it has 3 years edge on the sonata)

    The accords interior is not a whole lot better, trust me. The design gives it a higher quality material feel, as well as what u see from acuras that might percept you to feel that way, but the quality of materials are very simiiar to the sonatas. Have you actually went in the sonata and touched the materials?? plastics are almost non existant and everything is soft to touch(same as accord and camry)

    In my opinion why the accords interior is really good is cuz of the tightness, and the sonata has that now as well. (you think honda or toyota care about giving the public the best materials? lets make sense now)
  • ontopontop Member Posts: 279
    Sonata's interior fit and finish (driven 3 different ones now) is in NO WAY as good as an Accord's. Definitely a step down in overall feel and precision.

    But you can't tell that to these Hyundai lovers that seem to dominate Edmunds. What's the deal with that? Sure Sonata is a better car than before, and priced nice (until the Hyundai chairman thing causes prices to go up), but the overall package AIN'T ALL THAT ! Got it? Good.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    But I try to be as objective as possible.

    To me, I just don't like the design of the Sonata's interior. Most of the materials are nice, but I too don't think the interior overall is as nice as the Accord or new Camrys. I drive an Altima, and while it's interior doesn't have the best materials in the world, I (that's me) find that the interior is better looking than the Sonata's, though the Sonata has better materials overall.

    To me, the Accord and Passat have been the interior benchmarks for the past two generations of midsize cars, I do like the new Camry's interior, but I still favor the Accord's overall.

    The Sonata's interior just doesn't seem to have a great design. It's quite bland IMO.

    Otherwise, I think the Sonata is a nice, though rather plain and bland sedan...but hey, everybody claims bland sells..or at least that's what everybody in here used to say.

    Find it funny now that even the "Bland Queen" the Camry is adding some flair to their designs (if that's what you wanna call it)

    But then again, I'm only 20, so most cars in this class (including the Accord) just don't appeal to me. The Altima, Mazda6, Pontiac G6 and Saturn Aura do however.
  • seniorjoseseniorjose Member Posts: 277
    "But, I won't belabor the point. Others can check your profile and writing style to see if they think elroy5 is a new userID for seniorjose (who recently posted that the host keeps censoring his posts)."

    No, I do not have an alternate ID, please don't try to censor or belittle Honda/Camry owners. It is not the object of this forum. It's a standard political spin, if you disagree with someone and people do not accept your opinion, then attack the other person personally. Please get back to the forum objective.

    Yes, many of my posts have been censored. So what, it is EDMUNDS forum asnd they can censor what they want. However, "ragging" and whining about the Camry/Accord well earned best quality/reliability/value midsize auto reputation seems to be encouraged and wholeheartedly accepted. We will all survive.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hmm ... I see where you have made 28 posts since you joined in February. None have been deleted - not by you, not by the hosts. Maybe you are thinking of a different message board?

    Anyway, none of this is on topic. If anyone has comments to make about another member, either email them to me or just skip it. We're not here to speculate about other members in any way. Thanks.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    i see red x's so here is the pic again

    image
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    hope you guys can see the picture.

    image
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    i'll take the sonata's interior over this. maybe because i got sick of my 03 accord.

    <img src="http://www.autobytel.com/images/previews/05HondaAccordHybrid/400/2004-honda-accord-hybrid-interior.jpg
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    is ageless and still good there is no doubt , my only point previously was that the sonatas material is the same quality(feel, see) and now as tight(barely gaps), though style wise the accord is still a bit better.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    image-recent picture of the 2006 Accord

    The Sonata's interior is full of quality materials, but IMO, it still doesn't reach the Accord's level in both interior design and material quality.

    According the the recent Edmunds comparison,

    the Accord recieved a Score of 17 and 85%,

    while the Sonata recieved a 14 and a 70%

    --in interior quality.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    sorry, no mind reading skills here. but i have been working on putting thoughts into people's heads without them knowing it was me...of course i would never do that to you...maybe. and that camera that's over your shoulder...could you move it a bit to the right for me? :P

    as far as interior materials...i can't say anything about the sonata or new camry as i haven't sat in them yet. but design wise, i have to give the nod to the accord. the shapes and placement have a more refined feel to them. there is more of a sense of flow and balance. also, the colors match a bit better too. the aqua green in the new camry hybrid is a bit odd when you compare it to the rest of the dash; it completely clashes with the gauges. and the sonata...what's with those green backlit lcd's in the middle of the dash. and why green? feels too sci fi, not clean and contemporary like the vw or legacy. and it's not like the mazda's lighting is all that great either. fortunately there are a few dash gauge covers available to get away from the russian submarine tactical display look... overall, i like the accord, legacy, and jetta dashes the best.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    because they didn't use the korean version. it's not fair because sonata does offer premium interior, but they just didn't plan to bring it over here yet.

    i would say the material is on par with accord. design is subjective, so edmunds can like whatever they want, but i know for a fact that material is about the same.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    You Sonata lovers say it's the "Best Value". A low sticker price does not make a car a great value. The value of a car goes much deeper than that. The Accord and Camry have not been the top selling cars because they are great values. They are the top two because they are the best. People are willing to pay more for Quality, refinement, and a reputation for reliability. True cost of ownership is more of an indication of value. The costs of maintenance, operation, repairs, and resale value are all contributing factors in this equation.

    Then there are guys like me. I've owned Accords since 1991. In 15 years they have never let me down. I loved my 92 Accord, and the 03V6 Accord has just re-enforced that feeling. Why would I take a chance on another brand now?

    If I had bought a Hyundai 15 years ago, would I be feeling that same love now? I think not.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    but i know for a fact that material is about the same.

    Fine.
    Please provide links to your facts.

    - I'm not disagreeing with you- I just like proof, rather than a statement.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    choe on the Sonata: Have you actually went in the sonata and touched the materials?? plastics are almost non existant and everything is soft to touch(same as accord and camry)
    In my opinion why the accords interior is really good is cuz of the tightness, and the sonata has that now as well. (you think honda or toyota care about giving the public the best materials? lets make sense now)


    What do you think that faux-woodgrain is? The dashboard? It's plastic, just like most cars under $75,000.

    The Sonata has leaped over the domestics, but is in Limbo between Ford/GM and Toyonda. I turned the heat/air knob (temperature knob) in the Sonata and it didn't have the same tactile feel as the Accord. It felt less positive in its feel, less connected (the tightness you speak of, i guess?) I think Hyundai is oh so close, which is amazing based on how far along they have come.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    you see there are consumers like yourself who are loyal and there is nothing wrong with that, but sometimes your not understanding the point you love the company more than they care about you.

    Your mind is so infused with honda, i bet u dont' care about a toyota camry, and you may even defend it against a bmw 325, basically your emotionally attached to this car.


    Logically speaking though, if toyota and honda thought as prideful as yourself, they would laugh at the sonata, but they are in actually fear(and these guys are the real experts and not the editors like from edmunds and car and driver).

    It is real this car is a threat, and its proven by huge sales increases, feardome from the leaders hondayota, jd quality.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    What makes you think Honda fears Hyundai? Hahahaha. They have much more to worry about from Toyota and Nissan. Hyundai is nothing but a wanna-be at this point. They have no reputation for making quality cars. What reputation they do have, is more negative than positive. Hyundai has been making sub-standard cars longer than they've made good cars. They can not change their image overnight, despite what you may think.
This discussion has been closed.