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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    HOnda is going to need more than that to get back on top for 2008. It will take all those things plus many of the features the Accord is missing right now. It is almost impossible for one new model to leapfrog the competition in this segment. There are strong players out there right now and the Aura and '07 Altima will be out very soon so the field is only going to get tougher. Honda better offer 18" wheels, remote start, HIDs, bluetooth, 6 speed auto, a name brand factory sound system, back up sensors and a sport model for 2008 if they really want to beat the competition. Instead what we will get is revised (but not better) styling, more power and a more Acura like interior. I wouldnt expect much else. Honda isnt known for leading the industry when it comes to gadgets and convenience features unless you are talking Navigation which is already offered on the Accord. The 2006 Accord added many of the features this car was lacking and should've had long before last year but it still doesnt offer anything (other than nav) that isnt commonplace on competitors. The Accord is very competent, but just like the 2007 Altima I dont expect any radical changes over the older car. If you owned a current generation Altima I cant see anything in the new model that would make you want to rush to trade in your car. Its an evolution of the current car and I expect Honda to do the same thing. The 2006 Camry on the other hand was so lackluster that the 2007 model is a quantum leap ahead of the previous car.
  • toyotasalesg1toyotasalesg1 Member Posts: 15
    I sincerely doubt that Toyota or Hyundai is scared of the new Accord. Camry has beaten Accord in U.S. sales 8 out of the last 9 years. It's beating Accord again this year.
    When you beat someone 9 out of 10 times you're talking about dominance, not competition. Of course it's likely that Edmunds will rate the '08 Accord higher than the new '07 Camry but that's more likely to irritate (not frighten) Toyota.
    Sonata's sales are skyrocketing. It has found its niche as a lower priced alternative to Camry and Accord. The '08 Accord won't change this. In fact odds are excellent that Hyundai's sales will continue to increase.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Honda isnt known for leading the industry when it comes to gadgets

    You're right, Honda is not that big on gadgets (remote start is not entirely a good thing). But I am sure they will do what is necessary, to put the 8th generation Accord firmly back on top in this class. The current Accord hasn't exactly fallen behind the competition, even after almost four years with the current design. I can tell you from being on other (Honda) forums, many people are anticipating and waiting for the 08 Accord. This may hurt the 07 Accord sales a little, but not much.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    When the all new Accord is due, there are quite a few other cars either will come in new form or due for a facelift - every car goes through (about) the same cycle.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Just as the all new Accord is due, there are quite a few other cars either will come in new form or due for a facelift - it's called cycle.

    Which ones? The main competition is new for 06 or 07. It will be at least another 3 or 4 years before we see a new Sonata, Camry, Altima, or Fusion.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    since the sonata was recently redesigned they probably will not change it for 3-5 years. All cars can be changed when they want to be. They also try to make improvements, not just honda. How many miles a year to you put on your cars? What other brand of cars have you owned. We have owned mercedes, volvo, v.w., mazda, mitsubishi, nissan,eagle,chevy,honda and hyundai. When we buy cars we try different brands and pick the best for what we need. we average 25,000-30,000 miles a year and prefer manual transmission. Since you seem to hate hyundai why do you care when the sonata will change. you have no intentions of even trying one. Do you? You might have to admit you like it.When we are in the market for our next car we will give the accord a chance because it has 6speed, something we want.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The refreshed Sonata is due in 2 years ('09 MY) if Hyundai sticks to its traditional schedule. But since the Camry was just redesigned, it will take about 3 years for a refresh there. As for the Fusion, I am not that familiar with Ford's refresh schedule. Maybe someone who is can comment.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I sincerely doubt that Toyota or Hyundai is scared of the new Accord. Camry has beaten Accord in U.S. sales 8 out of the last 9 years

    Subtract the outgoing model Camry's 14% fleet-sale rate as well as the Accord's 2.5% fleet-sale rate, and you have numbers flip-flopped. No numbers are yet available on the 2007 Camry fleet sales yet (obviously, it came out only months ago).
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Agreeing there...Camry and Accord sales are virtually equal once you remove fleet sales...and personally I don't care that the Camry outsells the Accord or Altima because in the end those fleet sales help drive down the resale value of the Altima and Camry relative to the Accord.

    Further, I wouldn't call Camry's sales over the Accord's "dominance" if anything, Honda could offer more dealer incentives and fleet sales to equal sales of the Camry if they wanted to, they just choose not to.

    Also, as far as Honda not getting into the "gadgets" I'm not so sure about that. Honda was one of the first to offer Dual-zone automatic climate control, 2nd only to the Camry as far as Navigation systems and XM is standard on top of the line Accord EX-L and EXV6 models.

    I'm sure bluetooth, push start and other "gadgets" will be available when the redesign hits, because afterall, if they don't offer these gadgets, people will begin to question the pricing...one of the reason the Accord and Camry are so much more expensive at times is because of perceived reputation and some gadgets that aren't offered on the Sonata. Even though Camrys loose adjustable pedals for 07...
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    The Altima is completely redesigned over the 06. New, shorter platform, better handling, all-new interior. The car isn't even a facelift. The availablity of a 6spd manual on I4 and V6 models (opposed to the sappy 5spd manual offered before), rear view montitor system, bluetooth, push start and CVT are worthy options to look at as well. Though it may look similar to the current model, the car is different. Also, the 07 will pack a greater amount of refinement over 06 models and will have more features standard and optional this go round. As the owner of an 05, I don't see me trading for an 07, but I might get an 09-10 model when the car is facelifted. I just can't stand the front of the 07 model, just like I wasn't crazy about the 02's front end or those "orange" tails. I like my red ones better.

    As far as the Accord, I expect it to be fully redesigned and probably won't look like the current model. In all honesty, the last time Honda models were truly "evolutionary" was back in the early 80s to the early 90s. The 1994, 1998 and 2003 Accords don't look like each other in a sense of "evolutionary" design, so what makes you think the 2008 will be evolutionary to the 2003-06, which was considered a style disaster by so many critics? If anything, the car will get bigger, have more power in V6 form (doubting I4 will change much) and it will back features on par with the top tier competition.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Some info on the 07 Sebring if anyone is interested.
    http://www.allpar.com/cars/dodge/avenger.html
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The refreshed Sonata is due in 2 years ('09 MY) if Hyundai sticks to its traditional schedule

    Three years is not Hyundai's traditional schedule. Hyundai has gone 4 years,(02-05) and 5 years (96-01), with the last two generations. Most companies go at least 4 years. So Hyundai will have 2 years to study the Accord, and try to copy it again, as best they can. Of course doing the copying thing means they will always be a generation behind. That's the breaks, when you have to rely on someone else for your ideas.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    We were speaking of refresh schedules, not redesign schedules. The previous-gen Sonata ('99-'05) got an extensive refresh after 3 years, in the '02 MY. The body ahead of and in back of the passenger compartment were redone, the engines were improved, and the interior was tweaked. So there could be significant changes in about 2 more years. The full redesign will be later.

    I am hoping that on the '08 Accord Honda will copy Hyundai and offer ESC on all trim levels. Honda also followed Hyundai's lead and started offering side airbags on its models some time after Hyundai did. Yes, I know it is hard for you to believe since you are so biased in favor of Honda and against Hyundai, but Hyundai has had some original ideas over the years and doesn't just copy everyone else.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    The same can be said about the Accord and every car in the midsize sedan category then...

    The Accord is always the last sedan to get a redesign (well it an the Mazda6 which is also new for 08)

    I am sure Honda gets many of its ideas from the other cars in the class, just like the Sonata, Altima and Camry got ideas from other competitors.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Backy meant facelift - "refreshed". Hyundai, like most automakers, uses two-to-three years for MMC.

    Let's re-establish this again, the Sonata did not copy the Accord. Its design had already froze before the 03 Accord came out.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    Sonata redesign 2006. 2007 no significant changes. Same for 2008(?).

    Refresh in 2009 (?) ... that looks like the 4th model year of the current car to me.

    Didn't the previous generation Sonata come out in something like 1999, not 2002 or 1996, with a major face lift in 2002? Of course, I could be wrong on those dates, not having studied the history of Sonata. I just know that my '05 Sonata is a pleasure to drive and has given me 8700 trouble-free miles.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I would be very surprised if we don't see something from Hyundai in '08.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Hyundai is stuck with this body until the next generation Sonata. When will that be?

    Not as long as Honda was stuck with its current body style. It's interesting the way you inject pejoratives and inflammatory terms like "stuck" when most people like the Sonata body style. There are far worse body styles to be "stuck" with. How long are you going to be stuck with your car? :D
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Yes indeed something new every year. Not a new Sonata or Azera though..... they are new today! How new can ya get. The engines are brand new to the company. There could be something big to happen with the sports car line, and perhaps a RWD luxury car in a few years.
    -Loren
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    A "refresh" is changing a few minor things (standard equipment). They could change the rear end or the front end (maybe both), but the basic car will stay the same. Of course they will probably want to copy the 06 Accord rear, since that changed. Hyundai still wants people to think it's a Honda, don't they? I see Hyundai's with Honda "H" license plates on the front of them all the time. I guess they're trying to fool someone.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    A facelift is certainly a good possiblity, given the cycle schedule.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Hyundai still wants people to think it's a Honda, don't they? I see Hyundai's with Honda "H" license plates on the front of them all the time. I guess they're trying to fool someone.

    Let's see them!! Picture time...

    License plates are issued by your state DMV, by the way.
  • meateatermeateater Member Posts: 123
    most people like the Sonata body style

    Bro I think you got it backwards. Most people don't like the Sonata "style'(or lack of it), but agree mechanically the car is good. You can't force people to join the love-in with the Sonata that you're into. Sure Honda's dominance has ebbed, but not to where Hyundai has replaced it. Hardly. Hyundai has a lot of years to put up the stats Honda and Toyota have before the American public accepts them into the club.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    There are no concerte evidence indicating whether or not people like/dislike the Sonata. Styling is pure subjective.

    I hate to break it to you, but styling is not exactly the priority for many consumers in the class. It is important but by no means at the top of the priority list, given the general view of midsize buyers.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    The sonata unlike the accord and many other cars in its class will age well.

    second the sonata will stand the test of battling new mid size cars coming out. It is already just as compatible to the new camry, and the new camry is technically has almost 2 years advantage.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I'm doubting the Sonata will age any better or any worse than any other car in this class....people used to rag on the Accord and Camry for being bland, but they always age well...the Sonata is bland IMO...like a bar of soap or a potato...just like the boring and bland Camcords of the world.

    A car that I thought wouldn't age well is the 2002 Altima...they still look good for the most part. I wonder if they'll look good in about ten years though?

    I was out today at a Hyundai dealership..and guess what was parked beside a 06 Sonata? A 2001 Audi A6! LOL

    Similar they are...but the A6 has more obvious details to it, like say the buldging side fender flairs and completely different taillights. They may share a similar profile, but the details are lacking on the Sonata compared to the A6.

    The Sonata may try and mimic the A6, but to me the new Sonata is looking more and more like a "bigger" Elantra, and it should considering they are a corporate family.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,602
    I guess we have a somewhat different opinion of what constitutes a "refresh."

    I've always thought of it as an appearance change, since equipment, standard or optional, changes from year to year and varies amoung different trim levels of the same model year.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    The sonata unlike the accord and many other cars in its class will age well.

    When I look at styling, I look for something dignified yet modest. Perky, but not trendy. Modern, yet timeless. It doesn't have to be beautiful. I'm so afraid I will choose a car that looks dated in a year or 2. I learned my lesson with my VW Rabbit. It looked cool for a year or 2, then started looking like a shoe box. I even choose paint colors that have proven to hold up well. It narrows down the field quite a bit. I trust black, most whites, most silvers, most grays, and a few blues and reds. The last 2 Camrys and the latest Accord will hold up great. I think the previous Camrys and Accords are looking a little tired. I think my dark blue Sonata will look perky and modern for many years.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    2002 camry , accord and altima are not aging very well. The altima with its clear lights looked cool back then, i find it not so cool anymore.

    Something about the sonata though its diff. Its definitely like the audi a6 which doesn't look amazing after all the years as it first did, but still holding up well in its look
    The attention to detail of each corner of the car, the jewel headlights, the way the back lights wrap around, the sonata is a well exteriorly designed car
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    you can't tell me this car doesn't look classy. This car gets 2nd and 3rd looks, which i haven't noticed in while with cars in this class. It will age well

    image
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    you can't tell me this car doesn't look classy

    It looks like a copy of the 03 Accord, but the plastic looking wheels give it away.

    This car gets 2nd and 3rd looks,

    How would you know? You don't even own one.

    It will age well

    Oh, now you can see into the future (I suppose)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    They better put value back into the Accord in 08 or it will fail. Accords are spendy for what you get and this is no secret for those who have shopped the car market.. :surprise:
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I disagree...what "value" is the Accord missing, especially compared to a Camry...the Accord has just about every feature the current competition is offering, and it's on it's last year and a half of production...

    Accords are about "midpriced" in this segment. The Sonata/Optima make up the lower priced area, along with the Fusion, the Accord is less expensive then a fully loaded Altima or Camry XLE.

    And on top of that, the Accord offers some features in this class that even the new models don't have..namely dual-zone climate control, Navigation system with voice activation.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    He's referring to the cards dealers put in the license plate frames on new cars. I've never seen one personally but I've heard about them here.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    We must all be old if we are battling over styling on family cars. lol

    :D
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Check out my carspace pics of my Fusion!
    http://www.carspace.com/scape2
    Yeah, I guess it is kind of funny how we battle over styling..
    Also kind of funny how we battle over HP! How much HP do you need for a family sedan?? Is 400HP enough for the media? 500? 1000???? The HP wars are truely getting out of hand...
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I will get you a picture. Count on it.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    i dont' owe one? i already bought one. 2007 white inline 4, auto, 16 inch rims. Waiting for it to arrive at the dealers by next month
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I can't wait for the 2031 Accord...1,305 horsepower, a 12 speed automatic, self-cleaning engine with 30,000 mile oi-change intervals (on EX models only), 34 way power seat, and don't forget, 22 cupholders.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    image

    image

    image

    image
    image

    image

    looks 2 different car to me.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Actually, that's 4 cars.

    2003-2004 Accord (top)
    1998 Honda Accord
    2001-2002 Accord
    2006 Sonata

    Not sure of the point of posting 1998 models.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    many people actually think sonata copied 1998-2002 accords' front. i still don't know why. looks very different.

    and the current gen's(before refresh) tail lights might be the worst honda design ever. why would anybody copy that?
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    Sonata looks OK. Cars like the Altima or Fusion may look a little more different than the Accord, if that is what ya need. Now the Sonata in the rear end collision test scored tops as in Good, while the Accord scored Poor. So score one for Sonata. For styling, both look fine. Will likely be something a person would consider a " nice " style to live with for decades to come. But that is true of a lot of other cars. Well some throw in something odd now and then, like Subaru. And I don't know what inspired the nose on the Camry, but overall, it too is a nice design. Kinda liking the Honda Coupes, then Fusion and Altima - maybe the Maxima for style. The Sonata is good balance of pleasing style, price, performance, content, and safety. Can not find a better deal based on the numbers. Now there is more to consider. Test drives always help - resale values - history of reliability and such.

    Just on the information I have found, the Sonata beats a lot of cars. The safety data looks better than the Azera. And I think I still like the looks better than its big brother. Just look at the front crash test, offset crash tests, and rear end tests -- Sonata is tops. Will be interesting to see how Camry 2007 model does. Accords are pretty safe, but not as good for whiplash. Actually there are lots of good choices for safety now, as well as great choices, like the Sonata and say the Legacy. In larger cars, there is the FiveHundred, if you want big, medium priced and safety in a Ford. In small cars, I think I would go with the Civic Coupe.
    -Loren
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Member Posts: 811
    I would like to ask you again (previous post 4363) have you owned any other cars besides honda. You seem to see the future when you brag about the 2008 accord that isn't here yet. have you ever tried a hyundai? we have both.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    I can't wait for the 2031 Accord...1,305 horsepower, a 12 speed automatic, self-cleaning engine with 30,000 mile oi-change intervals (on EX models only), 34 way power seat, and don't forget, 22 cupholders.

    The horsepower is adequate, but I'm sure the Camry and Sonata will have 2 more HP. 12 speeds just won't hack it, because Sonata and Camry will have infinite speeds. Sonata and Camry owners won't need the self-cleaning engine, because their engines have never leaked. 22 cup holders is ridiculous. No sensible car owner would want more than 20. I think 1300+ horsepower should pull a 1200 pound tubular titanium car body along pretty quick. :P
  • thesniperthesniper Member Posts: 44
    "i dont' owe one? i already bought one. 2007 white inline 4, auto, 16 inch rims. Waiting for it to arrive at the dealers by next month"

    So your white car due to arrive next month is already getting a 2nd and 3rd look? By the way, you chose the I4 and not the V4.
  • joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    I can vouch for the "2nd + 3rd look". I've talked to quite a few current Sonata owners in this region, and they've expressed strangers coming up to them and giving praises about the car. Overall, based from what I can account for, consumers enjoy the Sonata.

    The other poster did say I4 :confuse:
  • m1miatam1miata Member Posts: 4,551
    The Sonata looks fine to me. Perhaps better than the Azera. Like ANY and ALL cars, if someone doesn't like, they are not forced to buy it, or look at it. I like the car in black, but would not won't the maintenance involved in black cars. A nice true red color would be something to add to the Sonata line. Not sure, perhaps a hunter green metallic would work for this car?

    Again, the car looks fine. Some stand out more, or look different in one way or another, but it doesn't make the Sonata a wrong choice in any way at all. Some like the Tribeca, others like the New Beetle, while some fall in love with the nose on the new Camry. Too each his own - who cares if those people liked a Sonata?
    -Loren
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Again, the car looks fine. Some stand out more, or look different in one way or another, but it doesn't make the Sonata a wrong choice in any way at all.

    I can perfectly understand anyone preferring 1 midsized car's styling over the others. However, to say any one of them is ugly is like saying one Olsen twin is pretty and the other is ugly. All the midsize cars are cast from the same mold. Their basic designs are shaped more by engineering necessity than by stylists. There really isn't much left for the stylists to work with when the engineers get through with them. I consider that to be a good thing, because I don't care for a bunch of non-functional fins, creases, bustles, swooshes and bling-bling stuck on my car just for "looks". :D
  • isseyvooisseyvoo Member Posts: 121
    I think you're doing a disservice to the better-styled of the mid-sizers to say that they're all from the same mold. Yes, engineering requirements may lead to some inevitable similarities, but I find the Mazda6 very pleasing to the eye (granted I'm biased, I bought one this year), while the just-ended generation of Camry has to rank among the most ungainly looking cars I've ever seen. (Unfortunately my neighbors don't seem to agree -- there are three Camry households on a street of only 11 houses!)
This discussion has been closed.