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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread



  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I'm not sure the Hyundai warranty or the fact that ESC is standard will do that by itself. But that plus a savings of $4-5000 might.

    It sure sent me to the dealer at warp speed. I didn't know my old Mazda would still go that fast. :P
  • 03accordman03accordman Posts: 671
    "Ok, remember the logics.
    Just don't tell me something I can't believe."

    You can believe what you want; that won't dictate what others say or post here. If you find it hard to believe that there are people who do get EPA mileage, that's fine.

    Also, please look up the word logic in the dictionary before you use it.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I bet that MPG drops if engine runs to charge battery.

    Mileage would drop if the engine ran more. I would be inclined to think they test hybrids with full battery power, but that is just an educated guess. Ask over at the Hybrid boards, I bet more people will know about that than this particular area. Happy Motoring :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thanks for the defense; those who own Accords know it is true.

    kwonc71 said: "Ok, remember the logics.
    Just don't tell me something I can't believe."

    kwon, don't knock Accords until you try them. If you don't believe us (which you obviously don't and likely never will), that's fine, but the "logics" are actually on our side here, so I wouldn't be pushing that logistical argument.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    That's it... $29500 with the options listed. The only one missing as I stated was the Navi.

    Essentially one vehicle has some benefits and the other has other benefits as joe97 noted and they are very equivalent.

    $2500 differential is it.

    Why Avalon and Camry XLE?

    You missed my post on the price levels and trims back a week or so ago. You will understand if you look back.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    In the HSD system the SOC is never lower than 30% nor rarely higher than 90%. It's kept in a very narrow range so it never deteriorates. Actually the more you drive the higher is the SOC.

    It doesn't matter at all what is the SOC on the battery in regards to the MPG values
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Posts: 116
    I averaged around 78 mph for an 800 mile trip on I-55 from Hammond, LA to St Louis with very little traffic and I got 31 mpg in my I-4 Sonata.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    That's pretty good considering you were near 80 MPH in a four-speed (or is it a manual?).

    On a related note, can anyone tell me the RPM of the Sonata I-4 4-speed Auto at 60 MPH? I'm curious for comparison purposes.
  • 94hawkskin94hawkskin Posts: 116
    My car is an automatic four speed. I set my cruise at around 79 and wouldn't stop until I needed gas, which is why I goy the average speed of 78. I think my RPM's at 60 is around 2500, but I'm not exactly sure. I'm sure the Accord or Camry will do a little better with the five speed.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thanks, the reason I was curious is because I think the higher top gear makes a BIG difference in my economy vs the old 4-speed Accords. I bet the Sonata would match the Accord's I-4 EPA HWY economy with no problem if it had the 5-speed. Is it coming soon?

    My 2006 5-speed Auto Accord runs 500RPM/15 MPH in fifth gear:

    45MPH...1,500 RPM
    60MPH...2,000 RPM
    75MPH...2,500 RPM
    90MPH...3,000 RPM
  • looking at a new lease (36 month) and have narrowed it down to two cars (after looking at most of cars in this class):

    Accord EX-V6 (no NAV) and Passat 3.6 (no NAV / no 4-motion)

    Currently have two Hondas (04 Pilot = wife/family hauler, 04 S2000 = weekend/summer runabout)

    Looking to add a functional, yet somewhat luxurious sedan in the 25-35K range.

    (+/-) for VW (some objective, some opinions)
    -- higher luxury point (been called a poor man's Phaeton)
    -- roomier (cabin/cargo)
    -- more stylish sheetmetal
    -- 280 HP
    -- optional Dynaudio premium sound system

    -- getting to the upper limit of what i want to spend
    -- questionable reliability and residual

    (+/-) for Honda
    -- obviously, i know the dealer and will get a great deal
    -- better value/economical
    -- extremely functional
    -- great reliability and residual
    -- very comfortable (not as luxurious as Passat,IMO)

    -- already have two Hondas
    -- no Premium sound option with auto tranny
    -- a bit boring to me

    Any thoughts?

    Does anyone have any direct or indirect experiences (good or bad) with the new Passats?
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    You forgot the most important item:
    The Camry is a Toyota while the Azera is not. ;)
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    After owning 2 Volkswagens but no Hondas, I would definitely buy the Accord EX-V6 over the Passat 3.6. ;) :shades:
    The Passat may have Volkswagen Fahrvegnugen but the Accord has Honda reliability. They are on opposite ends of the reliability spectrum. I would take reliability instead of "Driver's Wanted" every time.
  • mattgg1mattgg1 Posts: 191
    Graduate -

    I don't necessarily agree with the idea that higher RPM = lower fuel economy. The lack of an extra gear isn't always a bad thing.

    As I've mentioned before, I get 34-35 MPG with a 4-speed automatic. That is driving at 70MPH, at about 3100 RPM! Which is equivalent to you driving 90MPH in your Accord.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    4, 5, or even 6 speeds makes no difference in highway fuel economy. What matters is, what is the final gear ratio of the top gear? A 4-speed with a tall 4th could actually return better highway fuel economy than a tranny with more gears but a shorter top gear.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    You forgot the most important item:
    The Camry is a Toyota while the Azera is not.

    - - -- - - - - - -- -

    Hmmmm... My name is Diamond. I weigh 200 pounds. At $1000 per carat, that makes me worth just about $450 million bucks. That's about the same price per pound as the little Toyota symbol stuck on the Camry's grill. What a coincidence! ;)
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Other things being equal though, that 4 speed with tall/economy gearing would likely be noticeably slower than the same vehicle with a 6 speed auto but the same final drive. Not sure if thats a good trade-off...

  • i follow... was hoping that new generation Passat would resolve some of the engineering issues VW has had of late... with a bumper to bumper warranty (4 years) and a dealer nearby it would make any problems more tolerable (but is the tradeoff worth the cost?!?)

    i owned a 93 VW Corrado for eight years and had no problems, so my last personal experience with VW was a positive one...

    i appreciate the feedback
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Maybe, but we were talking about fuel economy, not acceleration. Take 30+ horses off the Camry V6 and see how it does vs. the Sonata, which has one less gear.
  • 03accordman03accordman Posts: 671
    I tend to agree with you. The reason (IMO) more and more companies are putting 5 and 6 speeds in their automatics is probably to improve driveability. However, OTOH, I test drove a 325 with the 6 speed auto; it definitely felt like it was hunting. Then I put it in Sport more (just shifts 4 gears) and the resposne was much better.

    I guess it would be helpful if someone could post why exactly companies are going for more and more speeds in automatics.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    How 'bout CVTs? Nissan seems to be gambling on those big-time. That's like have a nearly infinite amount of gears.

  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The GS300, which has a smaller, less powerful 3.0L version of the GR V6 than the Camry, actually gets slightly worse mpg.

    Moreover, the GS300 has the "fuel-saving" direct injection.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    I think it is driveability (more chance of having the engine in just the right rev range) plus higher overall fuel economy. But we were talking about highway fuel economy, and that was the focus of my post about the number of gears not being a factor for highway fuel economy.

    I have read reviews that support your experience with the 325, e.g. on the Sienna (5 speeds, more power) vs. Grand Caravan (4 speeds, more torque), the old Caravan did much less hunting.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Mazda's less powerful 3.0L V6 also gets worse fuel economy than the Camry. It's not just about size and power.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    IF you had a 93 VW Corrado for eight years with no problems, you would probably prefer the Volkswagen Passat 3.6 over the Accord EX-V6. I have many friends who have loved their Volkswagens. One friend has a diesel Jetta for himself and another diesel Jetta for his wife although he could afford to drive much more expensive vehicles. ;)
  • These are the changes to for the 2007 model year...

    ABS is now standard on all models except base and the new SE.

    • All Models now get the G6 GTP's Hydraulic Power Steering, except base and SE models.

    •GTP models now have a standard 6 speed automatic transmission featuring manual shift mode.

    • New standard GTP engine 3.6L 250 HP, V6, DOHC, VVT.

    •Available heated cloth seats on all models.

    • Radios now OnStar "Turn-By-Turn Navigation Capable".

    • New optional 17" Black Chrome Tech wheels.

    • New exterior colour - Blue-Gold Crystal

    • New - Air Bags: Driver and Passenger, Frontal Dual Stage, Side
    Head Curtain Airbags and Passenger Sensing System standard on all models(except convertible).

    • New wheels:
    17” x 7” 5-Spoke Facia Painted Wheel
    18" x 7” Aluminum Ultra-Bright Wheel

    • Seat side airbags now optional on all models.

    • 2.4L Ecotec standard on base and SE models.
    3.5L V6 standard on GT models.
    3.6L V6 standard on GTP models.
    3.9L available on all GT models with optional 6 speed manual.

    • 3.9L engine changes:
    W/ 4 Speed Auto - 227hp
    W/ 6 Speed manual - 240hp.

    Includes 3.9L V6 (240HP), 18” Aluminum Painted Wheels, 6-Speed Manual Transmission,Dual Chrome Tip Exhaust, Stabilitrak.

    Includes 3.9L V6 (227HP), 18” Aluminum Ultrabright Wheels, Dual Chrome Tip Exhaust, 4-Speed Automatic Transmission, Auto HVAC, Leather Front Heated Bucket Seats with 6-Way Power Driver’s Seat with Lumbar.

    250hp 3.6L DOHC VVT w/6 Speed Auto
    Does this rank up the G6 for these comparisons? The car also comes in more flavors (coupe/sedan/HARDTOP conv) than most offerings in the segment.

    Just wanted to know what you all thought...
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    Top 10 US fleet cars, October 2005 - January 2006:
    1 - Impala
    2 - Malibu
    3 - Taurus
    4 - Sonata
    5 - Grand Prix
    6 - Stratus
    7 - G6
    8 - Caravan
    9 - Cobalt
    10 -PT Cruiser

    The one foreign entry is Sonata. So all the talk about Hyundai surpassing Nissan and Sonata challenging the Japanese entries is just talk. Sonata is a good car, but it's just like a Camcorder one or two gens ago.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Well, for comparison here is what the 2007 G6 is still lacking compared to the lowest trim Sonata (which may have changes for 2007). Sonata has:

    * ABS standard
    * ESC standard
    * Side airbags standard
    * Manual shift mode standard on automatics

    Still a-ways to go for the G6...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    A few quick comments..

    ABS and ALL the airbags are becoming standard on all the other models. Sonata, Camry, Accord, Altima. Not being standard seems questionable for a new redesign.

    DOHC VVT w/6 Spd AT seems competitive at 250 HP. The 3.9L should be retired IMO
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,909
    Not sure how you reached the conclusion you did based on this data. Accords weren't in rental fleets even 1-2 generations ago.

    Maybe the rental car companies see the Sonata as being a great value--a roomy, comfortable, powerful, safe, reliable car at a great price--and that is why they have bought so many of them compared to other cars in its class?
This discussion has been closed.