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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Give me a break,you seem to have an offensive air of superiority about Honda and your comment is just plain uppity nonsense.I'm guessing that you are a preppy 26 year old.
I do make enough money and am able to afford almost any car,but I don't think I have to live up to anyone elses expectations of what I should drive to be part of the in group. Then again my neighbors don't drive Hondas or Camrys.There is no two cars alike on our well to do street,most being older model cars,oops one new Civic. My wife drives a Sonata and so do a couple of our well to do friends,also we don't judge our friends by what car they drive.My wifes Uncle who is filthy rich drives a beat up old chev. He tells us the reason he has so much money is because he didn't waste any money buying over priced cars.If you think you are extra special because you drive a Accord or Camry,good for you,but let me tell you,driving an Accord does not make anyone superior and driving a Sonata does not mean one is poor! That might be your perception,but a very narrow minded one.Have fun and spend more time enjoying driving your choice of car instead of wasting so much time trying to make folks agree with you that Honda is the only way to go,because it isn't.Well we must go now,to drive our Sonata through our wealthy neighborhood,how dare us!!!
I was just test driving a used 3.8L Buick La Sabre (old fart mobile). This little punk pulled up beside me in some new fancy dancy Honda all tricked out thinking he was hot snot.
Needless to say he looked like a dope while the old fart car left him in the dust. Ha ha...
Well if you really want to get down to the nitty gritty anyone who buys a new car takes a big dent in the pocket book because of the large depreciation that occurs the second you drive it off the lot, Hondumbs and Toybloatas included.
Hondumbs and Toybloatas are to me BLAH cars. They always have the minimal amount of standard equipment and are just plain jane at a ridiculous price. Why people will pay 10,000 for a car that is 10 years old with 100,000 miles is beyond me!!!!
...or how is Hyundai cheating its own people!
Tell that to the guy who's walking out of the showroom with an Accord EX V6 he just paid $24k for...250 HP, high quality leather, 6 disc changer, sunroof, XM, heated seats, stability control...etc etc etc. This car is closer to a G35 in driving dynamics and level of equipment (hell, the Accord has a better interior) than it is a Sonata.
Plain jane, nothing special? Give me a break. Look, the bottom line is that the Accord EX V6 is priced competitively with an Impala LT3 or an LTZ right now. In my shopping experience, the Accord is a little cheaper. I've owned 5 GM cars in my life. I can't speak with personal experience about the reliablity of a Honda. I can about GM. For the same money, to me, there's no question--there is no way for GM to win unless builds a better product over the long term. I've been very satisfied with every GM car I've owned for the first year or so. Then things tank, slowly but surely. Its not a coincidence. I'm not the only person. There will be people who get lucky, sure, but the quality of the product simply is not as good. I paid $16.9k for my wife's nicely equipped Malibu Maxx, so I'm willing to accept the fact that the brakes are absolute rubbish (20k miles = 3 sets or rotors, 7 different trips to the dealer for resurfacing) or that little interior pieces fall of here or there (3 so far). But at $24k for an Impala? Not going to chance it. Give me the Accord which has more, is faster, just as roomy, and is going to be worth considerably more down the road in case I ever want to upgrade.
What if the profits pay for the vehicles themselves?
Needless to say he looked like a dope while the old fart car left him in the dust. Ha ha...
i guess that honda wasn't an accord with the v6. could you be more specific about what honda you're referring to? they do make more than one model you know.
In the upper-end segment (Camry V6 XLE v. Accord EX V6 v. Sonata Limited), the Accord was the best for quite a few years. Now, I'd give the nod to the 2007 Camry V6 XLE. However, this reign may be short lived, since the 2007 Altima seems to be a strong contender, and then the new Accord comes out next year.
In the V6 category I will hold judgement on the Altima since Nissan often seems to find a way to get in it's own way. For the excellent engines available along with its striking style the Altima often has 'issues' that keep it from joining the other two.
I think the Camry will have a clear top position until the new Accord comes out in 15 mo's ( a HUGE wait ). And this new Accord better have seriously significant improvements because with the ICE Camry now having 15 months headstart with the best V6 in the class and the Hybrid Camry getting all the 'sage' press as Edmunds calls it where does that leave the Accord?
A dead hybrid and a V6 equivalent to the Camry? That's not all that exciting.
Diesel Accord !!!!!!!
OK now that's something to put it above and beyond the rest. Now it has an alternate offering to the TCH.
the camry may have the best V6, but the accord is still a better driver's car.
yeah, it would be great if honda could work out the emissions of an accord diesel. kind of like waiting for a pitcher drafted out of high school to blossom into a star. it takes a while.
I think the Camry will have a clear top position until the new Accord comes out in 15 mo's ( a HUGE wait ).
It's just speculation at this point, but I don't think the Camry will have a clear top position over the 2007 Altima. Same horsepower as the Camry V6, but with more torque. Similar level of features and equipment.
I agree that the current gen had "issues" that held it back. Those "issues" were mainly poor interior and torque steer, both of which, from preliminary reviews, seem to be taken care of.
The Camry V6 XLE will probably be more refined, but the Altima 3.5 SL will probably be more sporty. I'll guess that both will be equally at the top, but with different emphases.
Yes, and how much money you budget for the new car.
The only Toyota or Honda my budget allowed was way too small and uncomfortable. If your budget allows $24K, you can get a fairly nice Accord or Camry. If your budget allows $26K, you can get a really nice one.
Whoa bro! Just making an obvious (altho anecdotal)observation about what's going on in my area. No - I don't own an Accord, but many of my wealthy neighbors do, and none of them have a Sonata. Maybe it'll change. But right now Hyundai's public perception has a lot of rehab to go through before they're annointed into the CamCord club.
And sure everyone cares what the neighbors think. You may say you don't, but deep down, you do. Do you buy Wrangler jeans instead of J Crew? Wal-Mart tennis shoes instead of Nikes? Timex instead of the Tag Heuer? All the less expensive options do pretty much the same thing.
That's America. And Hyundai wants in the club again after stumbling in the past. I happen to think they're on the right track, but not at the station yet.
In 2001 the basic models of each maker sold for...
Camry LE I4....... $19500
Accord LX I4...... $19500
Altima GLE I4..... $19000
Sonata Std I4..... $16000 ( any specific data? )
Today they are 'worth' - ACV not private resale.
Camry LE... $6200 or a net cost of $13300
Accord LX.. $6700 or a net cost of $12800
Altima GLE.. $5400 or a net cost of $13600
Sonata Std.. $2700 or a net cost of $13300
There isn't a whole lot of difference amongst any of the 4 of them in terms of cost ( depreciation ) so it comes down to lost opportunity costs versus preference for driving one vehicle over another. The CamCords are somewhat more economical than the other two so there is a slight cost saving. But if it's 2 mpg over 75000 miles with fuel being on average $1.25/gal, the total saved on fuel is about $200 over 5 yrs.
Actually, $24k will a really nice Accord, the top of the line Accord w/o Navigation (EX V6). Just check out the Accord prices paid forum.
I got the Accord EX (top of the line, for the few who don't know) 4-cylinder for $20k-$21k plus got $1,800 over blue-book value for our trade-in (an exceptionally clean low mileage 2000 Odyssey EX...not even a door-ding or carpet stain). That isn't a screaming deal compared to what you can get an Accord for now. Prices are much more competitive than people give them credit for.
Actually, considering an EX-L (I-4) with NAV costs the same (only $350 chepaer) as an EX-V6 without, and are going for under $23,000 now, per this post in the Accord Prices Paid Forum:
#11754 of 11758 Price i paid for the accord ex-l with NAV by katsagirl Jun 24, 2006 (1:18 am)
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i paid $22,845 before tax and license. not sure if it's a super deal but with the price of civics, i was happy the accord prices.
-Kat
First, I have always bought Toyota or Honda vehicles in the past. I owned several model Accords, they never broke down, and they always got really good fuel economy. Service was much better at the Honda dealership than the Toyota dealership where I had my trucks serviced at. In my area, the Honda dealership treated me nicely, but the Toyota dealerships in my area were rude and overly aggressive. I would presume that the fuel economy would be similar with the new Camry, but not necessarily with the Sonata. It seems to be one of the complaints on the Sonata dedicated thread, but who knows for sure.
I would not buy a first year model of any make. So, if the 2006 Accord was a first year model, I would not have purchased it. This pretty much eliminated the Sonata and the new Camry.
The nearest Hyundai dealership was too far from where I lived, so buying one and getting service for it would have been a problem. I liked the vehicle @ the Autoshow, but in my opinion the interior of the GL looked really cheap. I could not compare it to the GLS or LX's since I did not sit in one at the show.
The new Camry LE was about $2,000 more expensive than the equivalent Accord. Sorry, Camry, but in 4 cylinder version, its not worth that much more in my opinion.
I would not buy the last year of a model. So, this eliminated the 2006 Camry and the 2006 Altima.
For the Accord, the only negative may be the interior space. It feels cramped but oh well - I am an equal opportunity basher of all vehicles even the ones I own.
I have also gotten really good trade in figures on my previous Accords. For my last Accord I traded in, I got 82% of my original sales price on a vehicle over two years old with nearly 30k miles on it.
So anyway those are my thoughts- but again we should be happy that this segment is so competitive. At least prices are not staying at or near MSRP for long with the new models.
People with money don't want to take a chance when buying a car. Buying a Hyundai now is taking a chance, considering their tarnished reputation.
Why take this chance when Toyota or Honda are out there?
Oh yes it is close!
I think it's embarrassing and even shameful that the best midsize under $20K is so close to the best midsize under $30K.
Seriously, I think it's amazing how much disparity there is in price and so little disparity in quality.
EXACTLY.
Combined with its price advantage and slight redesign, anyone thinks its a contender? If not, why not? It is the Engine output difference (200 or 210 Vs 268) or just passed reputation?
Thanks.
Both the LTZ and Ex come with pleather seats. Neither of which I would call "high quality leather". The impala has an optional sunroof (which is nice because some people don't like sunroofs), it has XM standard, Ipod jack, RDS stereo, CD player (changer is optional), standard Bose, speakers (8 vs the 6 in the accord), Onstar, heated leather seats, etc, etc.
As far as GM goes. I have had a great deal of reliablity out of my many GM cars. It has not been uncommon for me to drive them 150,000 miles with no repairs (other than regular maint.). In fact my family as a whole has several GM vehicles right now that have over 200,000 miles on them with the same engines and trannies, and a small amount of repairs done to them.
I have a friend with a Hyundai Sonota which has been just as reliable. Another friend who has a Honda Ody thats been nothing but a pain in the rump with several tranny problems. Another who loves the Civic and would drive nothing else. My neighbor bought a Malibu (04 major redesign year) and has had some design flaw issues to deal with.
So what.. every car maker has their good and bad points including HOnda.
As the prices and class rises, like say getting into Lexus or a Cadillac, it does seem, like the old man said, you are paying an ever larger amount to separate the very good car, from the extraordinary car. And in the end, everyone is happy with what they buy. No one is wrong here. And because one may prefer one element more than others in a car, the 100% great car can in many cases be the 50% less expensive one. Say someone liked an engine, or look of car A, over car B, which was more costly. Would it not be crazy for that person to buy car B just because all the data sheets, or people in a forum told that person it was an only car to buy?
Just enjoy, and share the thoughts. Sometimes we even agree.
:shades: And in todays search for cars, we don't have a Yugo or Chevette to kick around any more - darn it! -Loren
Thanks for the offer, you'll have to drink without me.
I don't think Hyundai has to give the new Sonata away. Sonata's are made in an ultra-modern factory that has the highest percentage of robots in the industry. In fact, Hyundai builds their own robots, and is one of the largest manufacturers of robots in the world. Their plant is probably the most efficient in the world, and monies saved by using robots are spent instead on improving quality. The prices you see are real, and here to stay. Hyundai is making a good profit on Sonata, but not ripping people off. Maybe higher prices are desirable on your planet, but here on Earth, low prices are a GOOD thing.
I don't think Accord and Camry sell their cars at outrageous prices because they must, but because they can.
The only cost is the lost opportunity cost of spending a greater amount upfront instead of investing it, which most people dont do anyway.
Ask me to buy a car for the long haul, it would not be a Hyundai.
Ironically, I would probably not buy a domestic for the same reason.
Hyundai's got a long ways to go to be able to be mentioned in the same company as CamCords, which happen to be household names now.
If a person has $20K to spend and needs a V6, then yes, the Sonata is the closest they will come to an Accord V6. Is it the same, perhaps not. Is it comparable, as in can you consider both for your needs in a car around the same size, purpose, and design' absolutely yes! Dismissing a car just because it is new to the game is not a wise decision. At one time GM and Ford laughed at the silly little Beetle, then the upstart Honda, funny little car. They laugh no more. Last laugh is the loudest. :shades:
Mr. Leadfoot6 would you care to elaborate on what it takes to be mentioned in the same company as Camcords. Im just curious to see what the criteria is. Thank you
That's pure wishful thinking. Go ahead and put your head in the sand. When you remove it, sorry to say the Sonata will still be there, even stronger. More competition is good for the smart car buyer, bad for you.
All kidding aside, it's fine to criticize a car. Tell us specifically what's wrong with it, don't just bash the nameplate. Saying it shouldn't be mentioned with "CamCord" just doesn't work.
The new commercials are making Hyundai (rhymes with Sunday) a household name. Enjoy the nice commercials, leadfoot, and better get used to them!
Interior design, in my opinion. Also, interior tactile quality (how a knob feels when turned, for example). Other than that, I couldn't find much fault with Sonata.
But when a product has above average reliablility for decades, that's heritage.
Hyundai may well be doing the same thing. But we will not know for a while. Believing it could well be the same qaulity (where it counts) is not necessarilty the same as KNOWING.
Sure, the same could be said of those who believed in the Beetle or the earliest 'camcords'. And it paid off.
There are no bad choices here, only personal ones.
All kidding aside, it's fine to criticize a car. Tell us specifically what's wrong with it, don't just bash the nameplate. Saying it shouldn't be mentioned with "CamCord" just doesn't work.
Huh? A little testy? So you're saying the Sonata IS a household name like the Camry and Accord? That was my point, which I think is very valid
I could give plenty of negative examples but they would be waaay off topic.
Too good to be true, and too inexpensive, not to be cheap, is just some thoughts without any base to go on. Japan quickly gained on American car products back the the 70's and 80's due to their newest and latest technology production plants. It may indeed to something very possible to make an equal, if not at the least nearly equal product for less money.
Honda, Toyota, Nissan, GM, Ford and the rest have a lot of good product offers too. Why not look at, test drive, and look over the data, as in safety and reliability on all these cars. Honda Accord is a proven fine car. A Sonata is a highly rated car in many areas too, and would make someone a good car. It is not like we are talking about the difference between a Yugo and Ferrari. It is all fairly close. Hyundai got off the a shaky start. They are saying we will give you a long warranty to regain your trust. They have followed up with some impressive product. Personally, I think it is time for Honda, Ford, GM and others to offer longer warranties. This is but one element of the decision however, so while Honda may have a shorter warranty, if may have a longer following of owners which are happy, with a better resale than other cars. The Ford Fusion may be a style someone is looking for. Hey, its all good - enjoy! :shades: Loren
Except the 20K Hyundai in question is very much comparable to the 25K Accord. The industry seems to think so; the magazine testers seem to think so; and the consumers seem to think so. The two senior editors of Edmunds' acutally picked the Sonata in the second opinion section of the V6 family sedan comparisons; Hyundai's 450%+ growth since '98 is no magic (now sixth in the world behind GM, Toyota, Ford, VW & DCX, Honda is ninth); most automakers, including Toyota [publicly], have put Hyundai on their watch block and deem as a serious threat.
Drive the car and one would find out why the Sonata is competitive with the rest of the class. Lose the ignorance and face the reality.
First off, their not outrageous. Accord and Camry can sell at higher prices because they are worth more. And will still be worth more 5 years from now. Sonata, Fusion, Mazda6, Altima, Galant, and Malibu sell for less,(duh) because they are worth less. The Altima is the closest contender, right now.
My Rankings:
1. Camry
2. Accord
3. Altima
4. Mazda 6
5. Sonata
6. Fusion
7. Malibu
8. Galant
Does that mean Edmunds and others will continue to pick Hyundai from now on? We do know Car & Driver has picked Hondas for a decade, and recently gives Hyundai very high marks. Who's right?
Folks will vote with their dollars. And most every time it will be with the marque they have the most familiarity and trust.
And as far as Hyundai being a threat, that's excellent!
It will just make the competition work harder. Benefit to the consumer.
Again, it's all personal choice, and there are no bad choices here.
And when the resale value of Hyundais begins to rise to the level of several others, we will know they have 'arrived' for good.
-Loren
Sorry for being off topic.
Yes, the people who are buying Sonatas are saving money. But so are Nissan Sentra buyers. Sentra buyers are saving more, actually.
Excuuuuuse me.
And so are Civic buyers compared to Accord buyers.
You're comparing a different class of car. All the mid-size buyers are saving money compared to a Rolls Royce. That comparison is about as valid as your comparison of the Sentra to the mid-sized in this discussion.
I foolishly though you meant worth, as in one was more worthy than the other to cost more. Now if they could just build some European cars at that Alabama Hyundai plant, perhaps thier initial quality figures would improve. And consider the profits if you re-badged the Hyundai with one of their logos instead. Oh the possibilities.
Will stay on the original question. Show me the worth difference. Other than resale value.
-Loren
Sooner or later you will sell your car, right? Resale value will mean something then, won't it?
If it is the car you want, that is perfectly fine. But if
the object of the game is net-net financial. It could
be game lost. If you save 5K up front, and sell that
car for $5K less come trade-in time, you still made
money on the difference. You have $5k for the three,
five or say even ten years time to put into stocks, bonds,
or the bank CD. That money makes money. During that
period, you also enjoy a longer warranty.
The car you buy must be the car you want. As long as
you do not make some crazy buy, as in paying too much,
most of the net-net end monies should look about the
same within a three year period. Longer term, the Japan
make could cost you a little more. This does not factor in
the possibility of say a sludging problem, or some strange
other occurance with the car or company. Things happen!
A Honda could have a tranny fall out, and thus take a hit on
that model. The Hyundai Sonata could meet some unforeseen
fate. Who knows?
I would not buy a Hyundai just solely on price. I think you are
talking valuations here. If the sum of all its parts is a good
value, then buy it. If you are saying the value of say the Accord
is more, that is fine too. Of course one considers the net come
resale time. I believe the Hyundai Sonata will move up the ladder in that respect.
If you are buying and selling a car within
a three year period, it could be close as to price in and out. That
is do your homework time with the ol' calculator.
-Loren
to this altima
Yea, its a fair 2007-same-company-vehicle-to-be-relesed-in-the-fall comparision.
But thats besides my point. When you say sentra saves to altima, does that chain start from the beginning of the chain? eg Avalon buyers save from buying a lexus, camry buyers save from buying avalon, corolla buyers save from buying camry and yaris buyers miss out as the corolla is the better model or something like that??